Feb 3, 2022 · 45m · american-optimist
Peng Shuai, Beijing Olympics & Holding China Accountable with Former UN Ambassador Kelly Craft · Joe Lonsdale
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In this episode of American Optimist, host Joe Lonsdale interviews former U.S. Ambassador to the UN Kelly Craft about confronting aggressive tactics from China and Russia, securing domestic supply chains, and asserting moral clarity in international diplomacy.
How this conversation actually went
Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Joe holds 29% of the talking time here. How this is scored →
Joe as informed peer 4.0 Guest teaching 2.8 Guest disagreement 1.0 Joe pushing back 1.0
speaking balance: gold is Joe, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 28:03 Craft reframes Chinese influence trajectory in Africa
Craft directly pushes back on the conventional narrative of unstoppable Chinese dominance in Africa, explaining that African nations are actively pushing back against crumbling infrastructure and predatory loans.
Hardest push from Joe ▶ 31:03 Lonsdale challenges UN value propositionLonsdale questions why the US should remain invested in a corrupt, anti-Semitic UN system, citing Elon Musk's critique that American taxpayers receive nothing in return.
Biggest teaching moment ▶ 37:20 Craft details USMCA labor value content mechanicsCraft provides an authoritative breakdown of specific trade provisions in USMCA that required 40-45% of auto components to be built by workers earning at least $16 an hour.
Joe holds their own ▶ 6:36 Lonsdale shares direct intelligence from President DuqueLonsdale brings unique insider knowledge by recounting his direct discussions with Colombian President Iván Duque regarding Russian-supplied technology used by agitators.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
| Chapter | Topic | Joe as informed peer | Guest teaching | Guest disagreement | Joe pushing back | Why |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Welcome & Assessing America's Post-COVID Global Position | 4 | 3 | 1 | 1 | Joe begins by questioning US posture post-COVID and references meetings with Latin American development bank leaders regarding energy funding. Ambassador Craft details Russian tactics, NATO readiness, and the geopolitical impact of Nord Stream 2 on Ukraine. | |
| Russian Covert Influence and Global Mercenary Operations | 5 | 2 | 1 | 1 | Joe details his firsthand conversations with Colombian President Iván Duque regarding Russian-backed protest tech across Latin America. Craft elaborates on Moscow utilizing Wagner Group mercenaries to avoid domestic political casualties. | |
| Beijing Olympics Boycott, Human Rights Abuses, and Corporate Complicity | 3 | 2 | 1 | 1 | The conversation turns to the Beijing Winter Olympics and human rights abuses against Uyghurs and Tibetans. Joe highlights corporate hypocrisy and spyware concerns while Craft calls out Olympic corporate sponsors. | |
| Rebuilding U.S. Domestic Manufacturing and Supply Chain Independence | 5 | 2 | 1 | 1 | Joe explains the practical commercial dilemma of manufacturing in the US versus cheap Chinese imports based on his venture investments. Craft explains how Trump trade policies and USMCA aimed to shift supply chain incentives. | |
| Legal Immigration Reform and Labor Shortage Solutions | 4 | 3 | 1 | 1 | Craft outlines Kentucky agriculture and equine labor needs alongside legal immigration reform before shifting to Taiwan defense. Craft highlights how younger generations in Taiwan identify solely as Taiwanese rather than Chinese. | |
| Countering Chinese Malign Influence within the United Nations and WHO | 4 | 3 | 1 | 1 | Joe analyzes the Trump administration WHO leverage that was abandoned by Biden, while Craft describes observing Chinese long-term institutional infiltration across UN agencies like ICAO and FAO during her tenure. | |
| Foreign Policy Coherence and Diplomacy Across Political Administrations | 4 | 3 | 1 | 1 | Joe and Craft discuss diplomatic continuity across US administrations and celebrate the Abraham Accords. Craft details the continuous diplomatic defense required for Israel in the UN Security Council. | |
| China's Declining Influence in Africa and Global Economic Realities | 3 | 4 | 2 | 1 | When Joe characterizes China as rapaciously expanding in Africa, Craft educates him on how Chinese influence is actually declining as local governments recognize crumbling infrastructure and predatory debt traps. | |
| The Strategic Necessity of US Engagement in the United Nations | 4 | 3 | 1 | 2 | Joe presses Craft on whether the US should stay in the UN given widespread corruption and anti-Israel bias, quoting Elon Musk. Craft explains that America has no body double and must remain present to maintain global democratic power. | |
| Canadian Political Climate and the Truckers' Freedom Convoy | 5 | 2 | 1 | 1 | Joe references his conversations with former Canadian Prime Minister Stephen Harper regarding media monoculture and the trucker protests. Craft explains Western Canadian economic dynamics and the supply chain realities facing truckers. | |
| USMCA Trade Negotiations and North American Economic Energy | 3 | 5 | 1 | 1 | Craft provides insider details on the USMCA negotiations, explaining the 40-45% labor value content rule requiring $16/hour wages that secured Ford battery plants in Kentucky, as well as friction over new EV tax credits. | |
| American Optimism, Global Beacon of Hope, and Looking Forward | 4 | 2 | 0 | 0 | The interview concludes on an optimistic note about American global leadership. Joe notes Palantir tech powering the World Food Program, while Craft highlights American-led humanitarian successes and her dedication to Kentucky. |
Statements from this episode (20)
Craft: China is watching Ukraine and Taiwan could be next
“We obviously have China watching very closely because my fear is Taiwan will be next.”
Craft: Russian aggression would never have gone this far under Trump
“I think that, that Biden has not shown strength as the president that I served. We would have never been gone this far.”
Craft: Biden canceled Keystone while lifting sanctions on Gazprom project
“If you remember when Biden came into office, so we ended the Keystone. We allowed, we took the sanctions off of the Gazprom construction project.”
Lonsdale: Former Colombian President Duque caught protesters using Russian tech
“And the president of Colombia told us he's caught those same Chilean protesters with Russian technology, trying to do these things in Colombia as well.”
Craft: Beijing was awarded the Olympics by five votes
“Well, you know, we should have never allowed in, in July of, when Beijing was awarded by five votes, by the way, awarded the Olympics.”
Craft: Beijing Olympics corporate sponsors are backing China's biggest propaganda effort
“If you are there and you are supporting the Olympics, you're supporting Beijing, this is the biggest propaganda story China will have.”
Lonsdale: Corporations find it safer to be pro-China than pro-US
“It seems like the corporations have decided it's safer to be pro-China and, but then still go along with the anti-US stuff, which is very strange to me.”
Lonsdale: Lonsdale and associates invested billions into U.S. manufacturing
“We've put, my friends and I put billions of dollars into doing more advanced buying manufacturing in the U.S., because that's a problem, because that's in China.”
Craft: Trump administration sold more arms to Taiwan than any president
“Well, under Trump, we were, we actually sold them the most of any president, and hopefully we are continuing to allow them.”
Craft: China sanctioned former UN Ambassador Kelly Craft for speaking out
“You know, I'm sanctioned by China because of literally speaking out, and making certain that the world knows.”
Lonsdale: China deliberately let COVID spread internationally to share economic harm
“China, China clearly Knew this and covered it up and made sure it spread internationally because otherwise it would have hurt them more than everyone else.”
Craft: WHO has no transparency and acts as China's mouthpiece
“And I want to say, can you believe that Tedros is making that statement from the World Health Organization, an organization that has no transparency, no accountability. They're China's mouthpiece.”
Craft: Two or three more countries are considering joining Abraham Accords
“I think we're, there are two or three countries that are really looking very strongly because they're seeing the success, not only from a shared security reason in the Middle East, but also the economy, people to people, communications.”
Craft: China is establishing a 25-year strategic plan with Iran
“China is now establishing a 25 year plan with Iran.”
Craft: Indebted African nations are resisting Chinese asset seizures
“Now we're seeing that the countries, yes, they, they're in terrible debt to China. However, they will not allow them to come in and take some of their strategic areas, whether it's the ports, whether it's their airports”
Craft: Global focus on COVID-19 vaccines sidelined routine childhood vaccinations
“We're seeing a lot of situations now where the, just the normal childhood vaccines were kind of put onto the side because we were focused on the COVID vaccine”
Craft: China uses climate diplomacy as leverage over a desperate Biden
“I think that they've been dangling this carrot to Biden and he desperately needs a win on this.”
Craft: USMCA mandates 40-45% auto content made by workers earning $16+/hr
“And that is because for the first time in history, we have made it where you have to have 40% of your autos and 45% of trucks like the F-one 50, which is where They're gonna be building that battery in Kentucky. Has to be made by workers making 16 dollars an h…”
Craft: Biden's EV tax incentives directly violate the USMCA agreement
“When President Biden came in and he has now decided that we are going to be, you know, electric vehicles by twenty-twenty-five, and there's been these tax incentives to be able to purchase. Well, that is in direct violation of USMCA.”