Dec 15, 2021 · 32m · american-optimist
Force Fields & Directed Energy Are Here! How Epirus Is Changing Defense Tech · Joe Lonsdale
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In this episode of 'Joe Lonsdale: American Optimist,' Epirus co-founder Bo Marr explains how software-defined electromagnetic pulse technology, SmartPower chip architecture, and rapid venture-backed innovation are transforming directed energy defense systems and counter-drone warfare.
How this conversation actually went
Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Joe holds 32.7% of the talking time here. How this is scored →
Joe as informed peer 5.2 Guest teaching 4.1 Guest disagreement 0.0 Joe pushing back 0.1
speaking balance: gold is Joe, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 30:54 Reducing adversaries to the dark ages
In an otherwise completely non-adversarial dialogue, Marmon emphatically states Epirus's mission is to render enemy weapons entirely obsolete and force adversaries back to dark-age capabilities.
Hardest push from Joe ▶ 12:29 High-voltage operator hazard questionJoe directly questions whether operating at such extreme voltage levels increases the lethal danger to human operators handling the equipment.
Biggest teaching moment ▶ 9:30 Gallium nitride vs cell phone transistorsMarmon explains the physics breakthrough of using gallium nitride to digitize high-voltage power at 1,000 to 2,000 volts compared to low-voltage 2-volt phone silicon.
Joe holds their own ▶ 11:17 Joe's high school physics electrical formula breakdownJoe articulates electrical physics principles (P=IV), explaining how nanosecond switching allows the system to leverage higher voltage for precise power delivery.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
| Chapter | Topic | Joe as informed peer | Guest teaching | Guest disagreement | Joe pushing back | Why |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Joe Lonsdale: American Optimist Title Sequence | 4 | 3 | 0 | 0 | Joe introduces Bo Marmon, referencing their shared founding background at Epirus and asking Marmon to detail his transition from D1 football to Georgia Tech, IBM Watson, and Raytheon. The tone is entirely collaborative and supportive. | |
| Defense Tech and the Historical Spirit of Silicon Valley | 5 | 2 | 0 | 0 | Joe cites the historical origin of Silicon Valley's defense ties through Hewlett-Packard and World War II funding. Marmon agrees that tech talent needs to return to national defense rather than purely optimizing digital ad clicks. | |
| SmartPower: Managing Gigawatts with Machine Intelligence | 5 | 5 | 0 | 0 | Marmon explains SmartPower technology using a targeted garden hose analogy to explain dynamic machine-intelligence power gating. Joe synthesizes the explanation into high-efficiency intermittent discharge. | |
| Electrifying Military Vehicles, Ships, and Radar | 6 | 6 | 0 | 1 | Marmon discusses using gallium nitride and silicon carbide transistors to handle kilovolt systems. Joe demonstrates technical knowledge by breaking down power formulas (P=IV) and questioning the safety implications of high-voltage digitization. | |
| Leonidas: Counter-Drone EMP Technology in the Field | 5 | 4 | 0 | 0 | Marmon outlines the Leonidas directed-energy system designed to disable drone swarms beyond visual range. Joe emphasizes the asymmetry of defending against cheap drone attacks compared to firing expensive kinetic missiles. | |
| Phased Arrays and Truck-Mounted Direct Energy | 5 | 5 | 0 | 0 | Marmon explains phased array antenna architectures combining photon emissions in the air. Joe explores broad applications against non-drone targets including vehicle electronics and maritime outboard motors. | |
| Dynamic Blue Force Zones, Missile Defense, and Active Tests | 6 | 5 | 0 | 0 | Joe connects digital beamforming math to computer graphics algorithms, prompting Marmon to explain dynamic blue force zones where energy nulls protect friendly electronic assets in the field of fire. | |
| Disrupting the Cost-Plus Model with Commercial Tech | 6 | 4 | 0 | 0 | Joe critiques traditional cost-plus defense contracting incentives. Marmon details how software-defined multifunction apertures enable shifts from kinetic offense back to defensive technological superiority. | |
| 9-Month Development Cycles and Culture at Epirus | 5 | 4 | 0 | 0 | Marmon contrasts Epirus's nine-month development cycle with three-year DoD acquisition timelines, criticizing bureaucratic overhead like earned-value spreadsheets. Joe compares excessive defense management procedures to Soviet bureaucracy. | |
| Sanitizing the Battlefield Without Human Casualties | 5 | 3 | 0 | 0 | Both host and guest align on the ethical vision of directed energy disabling electronic warfare systems without causing human casualties. Marmon expresses optimism about US venture-backed defense innovation. |
Statements from this episode (19)
Marr: Epirus created the world's first software-defined EMP weapon
“We have created the world's first Software defined electromagnetic pulse capability.”
Marr: Silicon neuromorphic chips operate far more efficiently than GPUs
“If you build neurons out of silicon that work much more like the brain, you can operate much more efficiently than like what you can on a GPU.”
Marr: Epirus demonstrated an EMP weapon outputting gigawatts of power
“One of our first field demos, we showed off our electromagnetic pulse weapon. We're putting out gigawatts of power”
Marr: Epirus achieves 90% to 95% power efficiency improvements
“We're getting 90%, 95% power efficiency improvements.”
Marr: Epirus is building power systems to speed up naval ships
“We're actually going to, we're working on a project right now. We're actually going to speed up. The goal of the project is to speed up a ship because if all of its gas or energy is going towards the radar, it can't go towards the motor.”
Marr: Epirus invented chips capable of handling up to 2,000 volts
“So what we've invented is a gallium nitride chips and a silicon carbide chips. These new chips That can handle 1200 volts, 2000 volts. So we've digitized.”
Marr: Power transistor density is doubling every 18 months
“We've published a peer reviewed journal article in, in December, 2020 on a lot. We've discovered, we believe we've discovered a lot that the power density of these transistors, it's doubling about every 18 months. We plotted all the data. Back to like the 19 n…”
Marr: Epirus's Leonidas disables drones beyond visible range
“So we have demonstrated beyond a visible range. Like a good story I'll tell you is we, when we did our, one of our first field tests field demos, we had about a 70 customers come generals and so forth. It was a great event, and one of the biggest technical cha…”
Marr: Epirus directed energy disables targets via electronic overvoltage
“We're shooting a photons through the air and then once the photons hit the drone, it's creating such a strong electromagnetic field that it's creating a over voltage scenario on the electronics itself.”
Marr: Epirus directed energy successfully disables boat motors and vehicles
“We, so we bought a boat motor running the boat motor in our chamber there. And so we've now got a videos of zapping our boat motors. We've got a bunch of data, how well it worked. It works great on vehicles as well. So it's really any electronics.”
Marr: Epirus directed energy has disabled every electronic device tested against
“So Joe, we have not tried it against any electronics where it didn't work. So every piece of electronics we tried against, it has been successful. So we've taken out GPS, we've taken out guidance as systems.”
Marr: Epirus system can dynamically protect friendly assets from EMP blasts
“So we can put an energy null. We call it a dynamic blue force zone where the user can kind of mark out where they don't want to fire and it can even be dynamic.”
Marr: Epirus self-funds product development to sell at fixed prices
“We're building this thing in a commercial business model. So we're investing our own money to get this thing built and sell it. We're going to sell it to you as a fixed price.”
Marr: Electromagnetic spectrum control will dominate future warfare
“We're expanding into all areas of what's called the electromagnetic spectrum, because that is what is going to assert control in the future area of warfare.”
Marr: Epirus's Leonidas system acts like a force field for military bases
“We think about Leonidas as it really creates what's like a force field. You can create a force field around a base or defensive area. So I think it really does change the game.”
Marr: Epirus built its first directed energy prototype in nine months
“What we're showing companies like Epris are showing, yeah, we can build a direct energy system in nine months. And that's how long it took us to get the first prototype from concept, nine months.”