The Exchanges

Q in a way, because after running a company for many years, the reaction of most founders is, let me take a break. And your reaction was actually, no, I see this opportunity. I want to go all in on Sandbox. And so tell me a little bit more about that. What was the vision you had in 2016 that made you say, hey, I need to do this right now?

A I think it was a fear of missing out. You know, the painful lesson of missing out during the mobile era. Was, uh, really ingrained. It's like, man, I wish I was there earlier. So when VR first came about, I was like, okay, this is going to be a consumer headset. Oculus is going to launch and HTC Vive is going to launch. We have to get there early. So I just decided to dive down and just go with it. You know, I think what made it easy for, uh, me and my team at that time was also, we knew how to build games. We built games from multi-platform. We knew how to build in Unity, which was used to build in VR. And I also had a few folks left in Blue Tea, and that's how everything started.

AI assessment note: “I think it was a fear of missing out.”

Q you're finally hitting the traction you're looking for. And this is one of the reasons I love your story is that there was just so many roadblocks that emerged out of nowhere. And the next one for you sounds like it was the pandemic, which is pretty fundamental to your business because it's an in-person business. And so tell me about that. How did you stay alive? During this period.

A Yeah, it was tough. People would say during the recession, companies will lose revenue by 30 to 60%. For us, we lost a 110% of our revenue, because not only did people, we couldn't open any of our stores, so there was no sales, but we also had to refund everyone that booked. And the outcome was that, was we had a great team, but, you know, we had only, we were trying to raise that Series B during the early 2020, and we had about three, three months of runway left. So we had to let go most of the folks. We let go about 80% of our team. That was very difficult. There were a lot of great people at the team that we wanted to keep, but we couldn't. So how do we make it work? I think, to a degree, it was the same thing that I've done early in Sandbox, where we sat down and try to get all the stakeholders to agree to fight on. I mean, it was much bigger this time. It was, um, getting the investors that backed us. Like, hey, this is what we're gonna do. This is how we're gonna survive it. Do I have your support? Getting the people that remain in the team to get the support. Getting the secured creditors and unsecured creditors. Like, hey, we need to, um, make sure Sandbox have a long enough runway so that we can all survive. And just creating a very big plan out of that. Now, the challenge was we couldn't convince everyone. And because of that, we had to go through chapter 11. We neede…

AI assessment note: “we had to go through chapter 11. We needed protection to get through that”

Q in a way, because after running a company for many years, the reaction of most founders is, let me take a break. And your reaction was actually, no, I see this opportunity. I want to go all in on Sandbox. And so tell me a little bit more about that. What was the vision you had in 2016 that made you say, hey, I need to do this right now?

A I think it was a fear of missing out. You know, the painful lesson of missing out during the mobile era. Was, uh, really ingrained. It's like, man, I wish I was there earlier. So when VR first came about, I was like, okay, this is going to be a consumer headset. Oculus is going to launch and HTC Vive is going to launch. We have to get there early. So I just decided to dive down and just go with it. You know, I think what made it easy for, uh, me and my team at that time was also, we knew how to build games. We built games from multi-platform. We knew how to build in Unity, which was used to build in VR. And I also had a few folks left in Blue Tea, and that's how everything started.

AI assessment note: “I think it was a fear of missing out. You know, the painful lesson”

Q you're finally hitting the traction you're looking for. And this is one of the reasons I love your story is that there was just so many roadblocks that emerged out of nowhere. And the next one for you sounds like it was the pandemic, which is pretty fundamental to your business because it's an in-person business. And so tell me about that. How did you stay alive? During this period.

A Yeah, it was tough. People would say during the recession, companies will lose revenue by 30 to 60%. For us, we lost a 110% of our revenue, because not only did people, we couldn't open any of our stores, so there was no sales, but we also had to refund everyone that booked. And the outcome was that, was we had a great team, but, you know, we had only, we were trying to raise that Series B during the early 2020, and we had about three, three months of runway left. So we had to let go most of the folks. We let go about 80% of our team. That was very difficult. There were a lot of great people at the team that we wanted to keep, but we couldn't. So how do we make it work? I think, to a degree, it was the same thing that I've done early in Sandbox, where we sat down and try to get all the stakeholders to agree to fight on. I mean, it was much bigger this time. It was, um, getting the investors that backed us. Like, hey, this is what we're gonna do. This is how we're gonna survive it. Do I have your support? Getting the people that remain in the team to get the support. Getting the secured creditors and unsecured creditors. Like, hey, we need to, um, make sure Sandbox have a long enough runway so that we can all survive. And just creating a very big plan out of that. Now, the challenge was we couldn't convince everyone. And because of that, we had to go through chapter 11. We neede…

AI assessment note: “we let go about 80% of our team... we had to go through chapter 11”

Q new game every single day, and they'd all be amazing. And there'd be this endless suite of Games that people could try out, but obviously there's a resource constraint. And so tell me a little bit more about how you think about the rollout of new games and also the amount of resources it takes to build a new game. I think you have six right now. Is that correct?

A Yeah, that's correct. So generally, it takes about 12 months to build a title. Internally, three months of pre-production, um, nine months of production work, but we also work post-production to make sure things look, uh, goes according to plan or any changes that we make while it's live to the audience. So the way we think about content is, in the beginning, we have to build everything ourselves, because it doesn't exist. But over time, you know, other people can build on our platform. That if you're a VR game developer, over time, you can find it more lucrative to build on Sandbox than other options. So how we scale location is a factor of that. The more locations we have, the more tickets we sell. The more tickets we sell, the more third-party developers interested in us. So in the beginning, we built a lot of locations ourselves, and we've proven this to be a very lucrative retail business model, and over time, franchising will really kick in And really bring sandbox all across the world. Once you have that, then you can start needing developers that, you know, with their unique skill set to bring that. Either local content or IP branded content they're really good at, or genres they're amazing at, and just create this ecosystem.

AI assessment note: “generally, it takes about 12 months to build a title. Internally, three months”

Q where you came from and how you got into the gaming industry. So let's start when you were a kid. Your parents were entrepreneurs themselves, and I believe that's also around the time when your, you could say it, love story for games began. So could you share a little bit more about how your parents also being entrepreneurs may have influenced you and also where gaming came into play?

A You know, I grew up in the Bay Area. And my parents were immigrants, and they, they worked really hard. And I remember during the summer, I would follow them, you know, to where they work, and it was just a grind every day. But over time, like, I seen how being an entrepreneur, like, great things happen. How, you know, they started, you know, at my uncle's garage, then they bought their own small warehouse, and then it just grew from there. So my biggest takeaway from being an entrepreneur is like, it just takes time. But it was during those times, too, when, you know, they're busy working that I have to find, kind of, solace in my own pastime, and one of the things I found early in life was just, you know, I was fortunate enough to have a computer pretty early in life, and I think I was about the age of, ah, 10 years old, when they just started creating these funny little games that I would just share my friend and just, kind of, go from there.

AI assessment note: “my biggest takeaway from being an entrepreneur is like, it just takes time.”

Q new game every single day, and they'd all be amazing. And there'd be this endless suite of Games that people could try out, but obviously there's a resource constraint. And so tell me a little bit more about how you think about the rollout of new games and also the amount of resources it takes to build a new game. I think you have six right now. Is that correct?

A Yeah, that's correct. So generally, it takes about 12 months to build a title. Internally, three months of pre-production, um, nine months of production work, but we also work post-production to make sure things look, uh, goes according to plan or any changes that we make while it's live to the audience. So the way we think about content is, in the beginning, we have to build everything ourselves, because it doesn't exist. But over time, you know, other people can build on our platform. That if you're a VR game developer, over time, you can find it more lucrative to build on Sandbox than other options. So how we scale location is a factor of that. The more locations we have, the more tickets we sell. The more tickets we sell, the more third-party developers interested in us. So in the beginning, we built a lot of locations ourselves, and we've proven this to be a very lucrative retail business model, and over time, franchising will really kick in And really bring sandbox all across the world. Once you have that, then you can start needing developers that, you know, with their unique skill set to bring that. Either local content or IP branded content they're really good at, or genres they're amazing at, and just create this ecosystem.

AI assessment note: “it takes about 12 months to build a title. Internally, three months of pre-production”

Q particularly for founders who are in those early stages, they may be hitting similar roadblocks. They may be asking the question of whether they should continue on, whether they should pivot. And I think, again, your story is just so emblematic of what the startup journey can be like versus, you know, from the outside, it can look like an overnight success. So yeah, any, any final parting thoughts there?

A From my experience, I think sometimes, you know, kind of throwing, let's say spaghetti on the wall is something that some founders might do, you know, trying to figure things out. To a degree that's important, but once there's enough conviction behind it, the need to be able to grind and persevere on a few focused area. I can't stress how important that is. I mean, when I think about us pre-product market, I mean, there were a lot of things we could have done. We could have, like, amplified our hardware. We could have, um, made better design on our store. We thought those were cool, but those aren't game changing. We had to figure out how do we get people to come to our store without foot traffic, right? That was one place that we doubled down on, and we created a shareable experience. Uh, like a highlight video, because it was very easy for us to just stop at a, a photo. It's easy to take a photo. But we thought, no, we have to do something the world has never seen before. So we had to do not just a video, but a video that splices real life with VR. But that's not good enough, because we also have to dig deeper and find what are the biggest elements that people will react the most to. Right? And so we created the game based on those elements, and we captured those elements, and we thought that's not good enough. We have to be able to, once you see the video, make sure that you…

AI assessment note: “the need to be able to grind and persevere on a few focused area.”

Q 99 cents. So for you to be able to successfully monetize during that period was definitely impressive. And from my research, it sounds like actually some of the games were really successful. One of them, the Dark Parable series was downloaded millions of times. And so it sounds like this company was doing relatively well, but Ultimately, you ended up shutting it down in 2016. So what led to that?

A I think it was my own stubbornness. So we did very well with PC games, and we grew to a team of 40 people. Um, so the game, um, company was completely bootstrapped after college. Um, but what happened was in 2009, um, that's when, you know, the iPhone came, and then there was a mobile games industry. And for me, I wasn't fast enough to adapt to mobile games. And, you know, what we built were casual games. And, uh, when mobile first came about, it took a lot of the, um, Shares away from the PC, uh, group. So we saw our industry starting to shrink while the mobile industry started to grow, uh, grow. So, uh, by the time I went to mobile, it was too late. Uh, we were just catching up, and every year that we went in, it felt like we were further behind. So the company just really stagnated into, uh, 2016. That's when, um, we saw VR kind of blew up.

AI assessment note: “I wasn't fast enough to adapt to mobile games”

Q of different experiences. Every time I go back, I'm trying something new, kind of like the movies, right? You don't often, unless it's something like Avatar, you don't Want to go see something again. And so from your own perspective, but also from maybe the consumer behavior that you're seeing, which one of those scenarios per se, do you think more so fits what you're trying to do with Sandbox?

A Well, definitely the latter. We do see people come back for new experiences that can share with their friends and family. There is a very small subgroup that would chase a high score, and we've seen people play our zombie experience over, like, 12 times just to get a certain outcome. What really engages people, what we've learned that's surprising about Sandbox is, it's really some, it's experience that you guys want to delve into that you guys can share. And the outcome of that is people come to sandbox because they want to build a relationship with someone. So a date night, it's extremely popular in sandbox, or they want to parents having a fun time with the kids in a way that's very shareable or people that haven't seen in a long time. So we want to keep doing that, but with different worlds, they can be in a different characters.

AI assessment note: “Well, definitely the latter. We do see people come back for new experiences”

Q where you came from and how you got into the gaming industry. So let's start when you were a kid. Your parents were entrepreneurs themselves, and I believe that's also around the time when your, you could say it, love story for games began. So could you share a little bit more about how your parents also being entrepreneurs may have influenced you and also where gaming came into play?

A You know, I grew up in the Bay Area. And my parents were immigrants, and they, they worked really hard. And I remember during the summer, I would follow them, you know, to where they work, and it was just a grind every day. But over time, like, I seen how being an entrepreneur, like, great things happen. How, you know, they started, you know, at my uncle's garage, then they bought their own small warehouse, and then it just grew from there. So my biggest takeaway from being an entrepreneur is like, it just takes time. But it was during those times, too, when, you know, they're busy working that I have to find, kind of, solace in my own pastime, and one of the things I found early in life was just, you know, I was fortunate enough to have a computer pretty early in life, and I think I was about the age of, ah, 10 years old, when they just started creating these funny little games that I would just share my friend and just, kind of, go from there.

AI assessment note: “started creating these funny little games that I would just share my friend”

Q wait for the next one. You don't have to paddle out and you can really, I guess, condense the learning period to get better. And so that's just one example of where VR could be a more educational resource instead of a social resource. And so how do you think about that if you plan to expand your content mix Do you think that that might actually expand past social?

A We do. We do. And I think it's how we started the company, always having, hedging on different bets. So one of the things we're doing is actually, we're creating, we're rebuilding our operating system so that it's white labeled, that other developers can actually build on top of our system. That if you want to learn surfing, it might not be in sandbox, but it might be somewhere else, but someone can leverage our technology to create a full body experience that allows people to be on a board and be able to surf and just train at different type of, um, temple to get to replicate how the waves are. We'll see how that goes, but we do understand that what we have is beyond just our business, and we do want to support how the ecosystem can change over time.

AI assessment note: “We do. We do. And I think it's how we started the company”

Q particularly for founders who are in those early stages, they may be hitting similar roadblocks. They may be asking the question of whether they should continue on, whether they should pivot. And I think, again, your story is just so emblematic of what the startup journey can be like versus, you know, from the outside, it can look like an overnight success. So yeah, any, any final parting thoughts there?

A From my experience, I think sometimes, you know, kind of throwing, let's say spaghetti on the wall is something that some founders might do, you know, trying to figure things out. To a degree that's important, but once there's enough conviction behind it, the need to be able to grind and persevere on a few focused area. I can't stress how important that is. I mean, when I think about us pre-product market, I mean, there were a lot of things we could have done. We could have, like, amplified our hardware. We could have, um, made better design on our store. We thought those were cool, but those aren't game changing. We had to figure out how do we get people to come to our store without foot traffic, right? That was one place that we doubled down on, and we created a shareable experience. Uh, like a highlight video, because it was very easy for us to just stop at a, a photo. It's easy to take a photo. But we thought, no, we have to do something the world has never seen before. So we had to do not just a video, but a video that splices real life with VR. But that's not good enough, because we also have to dig deeper and find what are the biggest elements that people will react the most to. Right? And so we created the game based on those elements, and we captured those elements, and we thought that's not good enough. We have to be able to, once you see the video, make sure that you…

AI assessment note: “the need to be able to grind and persevere on a few focused area.”

Q 99 cents. So for you to be able to successfully monetize during that period was definitely impressive. And from my research, it sounds like actually some of the games were really successful. One of them, the Dark Parable series was downloaded millions of times. And so it sounds like this company was doing relatively well, but Ultimately, you ended up shutting it down in 2016. So what led to that?

A I think it was my own stubbornness. So we did very well with PC games, and we grew to a team of 40 people. Um, so the game, um, company was completely bootstrapped after college. Um, but what happened was in 2009, um, that's when, you know, the iPhone came, and then there was a mobile games industry. And for me, I wasn't fast enough to adapt to mobile games. And, you know, what we built were casual games. And, uh, when mobile first came about, it took a lot of the, um, Shares away from the PC, uh, group. So we saw our industry starting to shrink while the mobile industry started to grow, uh, grow. So, uh, by the time I went to mobile, it was too late. Uh, we were just catching up, and every year that we went in, it felt like we were further behind. So the company just really stagnated into, uh, 2016. That's when, um, we saw VR kind of blew up.

AI assessment note: “I think it was my own stubbornness. So we did very well with PC games”

Q me of Just the idea of competition. Like what, what do you compare Sandbox to? And I can think of many examples, you know, maybe a movie theater, maybe something like Topgolf, maybe something purely digital, like friends playing in Fortnite. Um, so I guess from your perspective, where does Sandbox fit in that competitive matrix? Who are your core competitors and what are you really challenging that exists today?

A We do think of ourselves as carving a brand new market, um, but if we were to take, like, the close example, what we do want to become is, like, the new movies. When we think about the movies, you know, it's a pretty passive experience, and the outcome doesn't change when you watch a movie, and you probably do it, like, not many times, but for us is, it's a very highly active experience that, depending on who you go with, the outcome can change when you play the experience. And there's a huge social media component to it where you can actually express yourself and be able to share that digitally with other folks. And structurally, it's like the movies because you come in and there's different experiences that comes out, and you will chase for the next experience. We're starting to have experiences that are starting to hit box office numbers. Our titles are starting to hit, like, theatrical releases, the average US theatrical domestic box office release revenue. And as we scale, uh, there will be a day where we could see sandbox experiences even, um, being a rival to, like, some of the boss office movie hits.

AI assessment note: “what we do want to become is, like, the new movies.”

Q of different experiences. Every time I go back, I'm trying something new, kind of like the movies, right? You don't often, unless it's something like Avatar, you don't Want to go see something again. And so from your own perspective, but also from maybe the consumer behavior that you're seeing, which one of those scenarios per se, do you think more so fits what you're trying to do with Sandbox?

A Well, definitely the latter. We do see people come back for new experiences that can share with their friends and family. There is a very small subgroup that would chase a high score, and we've seen people play our zombie experience over, like, 12 times just to get a certain outcome. What really engages people, what we've learned that's surprising about Sandbox is, it's really some, it's experience that you guys want to delve into that you guys can share. And the outcome of that is people come to sandbox because they want to build a relationship with someone. So a date night, it's extremely popular in sandbox, or they want to parents having a fun time with the kids in a way that's very shareable or people that haven't seen in a long time. So we want to keep doing that, but with different worlds, they can be in a different characters.

AI assessment note: “Well, definitely the latter. We do see people come back for new experiences”

Q wait for the next one. You don't have to paddle out and you can really, I guess, condense the learning period to get better. And so that's just one example of where VR could be a more educational resource instead of a social resource. And so how do you think about that if you plan to expand your content mix Do you think that that might actually expand past social?

A We do. We do. And I think it's how we started the company, always having, hedging on different bets. So one of the things we're doing is actually, we're creating, we're rebuilding our operating system so that it's white labeled, that other developers can actually build on top of our system. That if you want to learn surfing, it might not be in sandbox, but it might be somewhere else, but someone can leverage our technology to create a full body experience that allows people to be on a board and be able to surf and just train at different type of, um, temple to get to replicate how the waves are. We'll see how that goes, but we do understand that what we have is beyond just our business, and we do want to support how the ecosystem can change over time.

AI assessment note: “We do. We do. And I think it's how we started the company”

Q me of Just the idea of competition. Like what, what do you compare Sandbox to? And I can think of many examples, you know, maybe a movie theater, maybe something like Topgolf, maybe something purely digital, like friends playing in Fortnite. Um, so I guess from your perspective, where does Sandbox fit in that competitive matrix? Who are your core competitors and what are you really challenging that exists today?

A We do think of ourselves as carving a brand new market, um, but if we were to take, like, the close example, what we do want to become is, like, the new movies. When we think about the movies, you know, it's a pretty passive experience, and the outcome doesn't change when you watch a movie, and you probably do it, like, not many times, but for us is, it's a very highly active experience that, depending on who you go with, the outcome can change when you play the experience. And there's a huge social media component to it where you can actually express yourself and be able to share that digitally with other folks. And structurally, it's like the movies because you come in and there's different experiences that comes out, and you will chase for the next experience. We're starting to have experiences that are starting to hit box office numbers. Our titles are starting to hit, like, theatrical releases, the average US theatrical domestic box office release revenue. And as we scale, uh, there will be a day where we could see sandbox experiences even, um, being a rival to, like, some of the boss office movie hits.

AI assessment note: “what we do want to become is, like, the new movies.”

Q you started Sandbox in 2016, it existed back then, so we're now in 2023. And I think there have definitely been some impressive strides in the industry, but the challenge that many people would make about VR is that it still remains in this zone of novelty. And so I guess the way I pose the question is how do we change VR from being a novelty to a necessity?

A We have to really double down on content in a way that can really extrapolate the power of VR. Because if we look at say the consumer VR market, what you're competing with, not us, you're competing with Fortnite. You're competing with, you know, your console, your PlayStation five, your mobile phone. Does someone entering their home want to put on their headset before anything else? So to do that, you're going to have to have a 10 X content that can drive people to really want to put on the headset the moment they get home, and that's a very hard thing to do, but I feel like over time we'll get there. But they have to be a content that's just really native to VR that cannot be replicated across the phone or the PC or the, or the TV screen. And I think people have been trying to figure out what that is, and eventually they're going to get it, and more people will start using, um, consumer VR headsets. When I think about how work positions, uh, like out-of-home VR, say, compared to, um, in-home VR, I think what we're seeing is the evolution of accessibility. In consumer VR, you're seeing that, um, you know, VR headset's not being plugged into the PC anymore. Uh, consumer headset's being very light-weighted, and over time, just might be a headset that you can actually take outside and go wherever you go. It's very highly accessible. Now, to do that, which is fine, is they sacrific…

AI assessment note: “We have to really double down on content in a way that can really extrapolate”

Q So I didn't even realize that you were pursuing both of these paths in parallel. Were there any early data points in either direction that made you think, huh, this is really where we should be betting?

A I think it was just the nature of how the company was founded. When I built Blue Tea, I moved to Hong Kong and I, I built a community there. I have friends there. So when I started to seek out angel investors, I told them, hey, let's try to build games for us. It's very organic, right? And we also want to learn what it takes to build in VR. So while we're learning how to build, you know, content in VR, we can really figure out how to build a platform that eventually became that location-based component to it. You know, but for us, we also didn't raise that much. Um, in the beginning, we raised about, I think, 300,400 thousand, which might seem like a lot, but if you're building a, a team that wants to build content and then build a technology platform that's never been done before, and eventually put it into a retail space, That's not a lot of money to go about. So I was, I guess, a little bit naive in the thought that, hey, we're early enough, and we build games, that by the time the game launch, that we can take the profit we earn from the game, and we invest back into the platform. That was in 2016, and during that time, you know, there was a lot of hype and buzz still around VR. And we launched our game in December, perfectly timed during the holiday season. Uh, we went through Steam, and we got an incredible exposure on Steam, and we put our game on The store, and we were …

AI assessment note: “top 20% title, but it didn't generate that much, um, you know, revenue for us”

Q So I didn't even realize that you were pursuing both of these paths in parallel. Were there any early data points in either direction that made you think, huh, this is really where we should be betting?

A I think it was just the nature of how the company was founded. When I built Blue Tea, I moved to Hong Kong and I, I built a community there. I have friends there. So when I started to seek out angel investors, I told them, hey, let's try to build games for us. It's very organic, right? And we also want to learn what it takes to build in VR. So while we're learning how to build, you know, content in VR, we can really figure out how to build a platform that eventually became that location-based component to it. You know, but for us, we also didn't raise that much. Um, in the beginning, we raised about, I think, 300,400 thousand, which might seem like a lot, but if you're building a, a team that wants to build content and then build a technology platform that's never been done before, and eventually put it into a retail space, That's not a lot of money to go about. So I was, I guess, a little bit naive in the thought that, hey, we're early enough, and we build games, that by the time the game launch, that we can take the profit we earn from the game, and we invest back into the platform. That was in 2016, and during that time, you know, there was a lot of hype and buzz still around VR. And we launched our game in December, perfectly timed during the holiday season. Uh, we went through Steam, and we got an incredible exposure on Steam, and we put our game on The store, and we were …

AI assessment note: “we were like the top 20% title, but it didn't generate that much”

Q you started Sandbox in 2016, it existed back then, so we're now in 2023. And I think there have definitely been some impressive strides in the industry, but the challenge that many people would make about VR is that it still remains in this zone of novelty. And so I guess the way I pose the question is how do we change VR from being a novelty to a necessity?

A We have to really double down on content in a way that can really extrapolate the power of VR. Because if we look at say the consumer VR market, what you're competing with, not us, you're competing with Fortnite. You're competing with, you know, your console, your PlayStation five, your mobile phone. Does someone entering their home want to put on their headset before anything else? So to do that, you're going to have to have a 10 X content that can drive people to really want to put on the headset the moment they get home, and that's a very hard thing to do, but I feel like over time we'll get there. But they have to be a content that's just really native to VR that cannot be replicated across the phone or the PC or the, or the TV screen. And I think people have been trying to figure out what that is, and eventually they're going to get it, and more people will start using, um, consumer VR headsets. When I think about how work positions, uh, like out-of-home VR, say, compared to, um, in-home VR, I think what we're seeing is the evolution of accessibility. In consumer VR, you're seeing that, um, you know, VR headset's not being plugged into the PC anymore. Uh, consumer headset's being very light-weighted, and over time, just might be a headset that you can actually take outside and go wherever you go. It's very highly accessible. Now, to do that, which is fine, is they sacrific…

AI assessment note: “We have to really double down on content in a way that can really extrapolate”

Q curious to know about if we start looking forward in terms of sandbox, how do you, how do you think about the business evolving? Where are you focusing? Is it about opening up a bunch of new locations? Is it about extending the content variety that you have? Is it about getting better deals with your real estate partners? How do you think about the evolution and where to prioritize?

A Yeah, to answer your first question, building hardware is really hard. Fortunately, in the beginning, we've, uh, we didn't have to worry about hardware because everything was off the shelf. So all we had to do was make sure the software works really well with all the hardware that we've used. We got very lucky in that respect. And over time, we started building, like, our own haptic wands and wireless props. And, you know, in the future, we do want to invest deeper into hardware to have a more integrated product. In terms of how we want to see our future and how we grow is, it's just continue to do everything that we do, but really to double down on our content. You know, I always see us the movies in the first five years of Sandbox. It's like, it's a silent film of our VR product. And now that we just created wireless streaming, now we can add sound to it. So now we have all these, uh, genres that we can explore, that we can provide for our audience, and over time, we'll figure out what that color is. We can add the color to our, um, you know, black and white sound film, and then build even more genres of experience that can utilize that, and just grow from there.

AI assessment note: “how we grow is, it's just continue to do everything that we do, but really to double down on our content”

Q curious to know about if we start looking forward in terms of sandbox, how do you, how do you think about the business evolving? Where are you focusing? Is it about opening up a bunch of new locations? Is it about extending the content variety that you have? Is it about getting better deals with your real estate partners? How do you think about the evolution and where to prioritize?

A Yeah, to answer your first question, building hardware is really hard. Fortunately, in the beginning, we've, uh, we didn't have to worry about hardware because everything was off the shelf. So all we had to do was make sure the software works really well with all the hardware that we've used. We got very lucky in that respect. And over time, we started building, like, our own haptic wands and wireless props. And, you know, in the future, we do want to invest deeper into hardware to have a more integrated product. In terms of how we want to see our future and how we grow is, it's just continue to do everything that we do, but really to double down on our content. You know, I always see us the movies in the first five years of Sandbox. It's like, it's a silent film of our VR product. And now that we just created wireless streaming, now we can add sound to it. So now we have all these, uh, genres that we can explore, that we can provide for our audience, and over time, we'll figure out what that color is. We can add the color to our, um, you know, black and white sound film, and then build even more genres of experience that can utilize that, and just grow from there.

AI assessment note: “really to double down on our content”