The Exchanges

Q So, you know, Parker, so what is this? Does this mean that you're done? You don't have to worry about this anymore. And what about other companies who are confronting similar issues with different technologies? Like how do, how, what would you tell them to do? I mean, what would you do differently if at all?

A I think, um, what I probably would have done differently in the case of Utah is I probably would have, I wish I had realized earlier in the process that we were in sort of a political battle rather than a legal battle with the, with the Department of Insurance. You know, it, it took us a lot longer than it should to sort of reach outside of the ordinary channels. You know, we were, we were getting an inquiry. We were sending our response. We were getting on the phone with the investigator to go through a demo. And, you know, we thought we were sort of like following the process, and really what we should have been doing much earlier on was, you know, trying to hire someone who could help us get to the people that were much, much, much more senior in the state government so that we could sort of plead our case with them and say, hey, here's what's going on. You know, because the, I think the, some of the folks like on the ground level were a lot more subject to influence by sort of the broker community. Um, and, and it wasn't really until we sort of broke out of that and we're talking with, you know, the much more senior folks in the state that they were like, Hey, listen, this is not how we want to do business.

AI assessment note: “what I probably would have done differently in the case of Utah is”

Q Did you change the information that you presented to them? Like, were you still doing demos or were you just telling them a bigger story? Like, or were you doing the exact same thing with a different audience?

A It wasn't like we were telling them something different. But I mean, we were probably trying to cast it in, in sort of much broader terms and broader language about Utah and technology and, and sort of economic development. Well, it's like with the insurance investigator, you know, we were talking much more about the specifics and of like how our product actually worked. So at the end of the day, it probably was a good thing for us because like the amount of press coverage that we got, like in Utah, this was a really big deal. Um, and the amount of press covers that we got there, you know, now that we're back in the state, we've got tons of companies that are, you know, really interested in, like, hearing more about the service. The other thing that we started doing, you know, very early on in, um, sort of when we were sort of having trouble with Utah is we started reaching out proactively to all of the insurance departments for every state around the country, and so we're actually, you know, meeting with them, um, At NEIC, which is, you know, the National Association of Insurance Commissioners, they have meetings twice a year, so we, you know, we, we go there, you know, for each of those meetings, and we have a, a room and try and set up meetings to sort of talk people through Zenefits, and, um, and so we're doing that twice a year. We're communicating, you know, like sending …

AI assessment note: “we were probably trying to cast it in, in sort of much broader terms”

Q So, you know, Parker, so what is this? Does this mean that you're done? You don't have to worry about this anymore. And what about other companies who are confronting similar issues with different technologies? Like how do, how, what would you tell them to do? I mean, what would you do differently if at all?

A I think, um, what I probably would have done differently in the case of Utah is I probably would have, I wish I had realized earlier in the process that we were in sort of a political battle rather than a legal battle with the, with the Department of Insurance. You know, it, it took us a lot longer than it should to sort of reach outside of the ordinary channels. You know, we were, we were getting an inquiry. We were sending our response. We were getting on the phone with the investigator to go through a demo. And, you know, we thought we were sort of like following the process, and really what we should have been doing much earlier on was, you know, trying to hire someone who could help us get to the people that were much, much, much more senior in the state government so that we could sort of plead our case with them and say, hey, here's what's going on. You know, because the, I think the, some of the folks like on the ground level were a lot more subject to influence by sort of the broker community. Um, and, and it wasn't really until we sort of broke out of that and we're talking with, you know, the much more senior folks in the state that they were like, Hey, listen, this is not how we want to do business.

AI assessment note: “what I probably would have done differently in the case of Utah is I probably would”

Q So, okay, so I think the bigger picture question is that, you know, it feels like there's like a definite shift in how states have to start thinking about reform and regulation around new technologies. I mean, how did that sort of play into your views of how things played out?

A Well, you know, I think what happens is, is, um, you know, anyone who's trying to build a technology company, um, Um, almost anyone is going to run up against some kind of incumbent out there in the world who's going to be upset about sort of the ground shifting beneath their feet as a result of this new development. In, in most cases, in fact, I think, you know, if, if you are going growing really quickly and sort of taking over a market or an industry, you know, those, those existing constituencies are going to seek out some kind of protection from regulators or the government pretty much in every case whenever they can. It's just something they're going to turn to, and one of, one of the challenges is that, you know, there, there are always more entrenched constituencies for the existing way of doing things than there are for something new. One of the great things about Utah is that, um, you know, there is a, a sort of really nascent and budding tech community there, and, and Utah cares a lot about, you know, trying to develop, uh, Salt Lake City as a tech hub. You know, they talk about Silicon Slopes and, and sort of all of the companies that are out there, and I think a lot of folks, you know, there's a guy named Clint Betts from Beehive Startups and Josh James from, from Domo and previously from Omniture, who, you know, are really strong and influential members of that co…

AI assessment note: “those existing constituencies are going to seek out some kind of protection from regulators”

Q So, okay, so I think the bigger picture question is that, you know, it feels like there's like a definite shift in how states have to start thinking about reform and regulation around new technologies. I mean, how did that sort of play into your views of how things played out?

A Well, you know, I think what happens is, is, um, you know, anyone who's trying to build a technology company, um, Um, almost anyone is going to run up against some kind of incumbent out there in the world who's going to be upset about sort of the ground shifting beneath their feet as a result of this new development. In, in most cases, in fact, I think, you know, if, if you are going growing really quickly and sort of taking over a market or an industry, you know, those, those existing constituencies are going to seek out some kind of protection from regulators or the government pretty much in every case whenever they can. It's just something they're going to turn to, and one of, one of the challenges is that, you know, there, there are always more entrenched constituencies for the existing way of doing things than there are for something new. One of the great things about Utah is that, um, you know, there is a, a sort of really nascent and budding tech community there, and, and Utah cares a lot about, you know, trying to develop, uh, Salt Lake City as a tech hub. You know, they talk about Silicon Slopes and, and sort of all of the companies that are out there, and I think a lot of folks, you know, there's a guy named Clint Betts from Beehive Startups and Josh James from, from Domo and previously from Omniture, who, you know, are really strong and influential members of that co…

AI assessment note: “those existing constituencies are going to seek out some kind of protection from regulators”

Q Did you change the information that you presented to them? Like, were you still doing demos or were you just telling them a bigger story? Like, or were you doing the exact same thing with a different audience?

A It wasn't like we were telling them something different. But I mean, we were probably trying to cast it in, in sort of much broader terms and broader language about Utah and technology and, and sort of economic development. Well, it's like with the insurance investigator, you know, we were talking much more about the specifics and of like how our product actually worked. So at the end of the day, it probably was a good thing for us because like the amount of press coverage that we got, like in Utah, this was a really big deal. Um, and the amount of press covers that we got there, you know, now that we're back in the state, we've got tons of companies that are, you know, really interested in, like, hearing more about the service. The other thing that we started doing, you know, very early on in, um, sort of when we were sort of having trouble with Utah is we started reaching out proactively to all of the insurance departments for every state around the country, and so we're actually, you know, meeting with them, um, At NEIC, which is, you know, the National Association of Insurance Commissioners, they have meetings twice a year, so we, you know, we, we go there, you know, for each of those meetings, and we have a, a room and try and set up meetings to sort of talk people through Zenefits, and, um, and so we're doing that twice a year. We're communicating, you know, like sending …

AI assessment note: “we were probably trying to cast it in, in sort of much broader terms”

Q You obviously were probably frustrated and, and struggling with hearing all that when you started off, but you ended up with a very successful outcome. Like, how did you guys actually get there?

A Well, so we were kind of going back and forth with the DOI for several months. Um, uh, you know, before everything kind of blew up and, And then, you know, we thought maybe we were going to work it out that, you know, they weren't really going to sort of do this. It didn't make any sense. And then, you know, they kind of like issued their decision, or they sent us a preview of their decision, and I mean, I felt like I'd been punched in the gut, because, you know, in starting a company like this, I feel like, you know, I understood sort of like sales, and I understood how to build software, and how to build good products, and stuff like that. Um, but this was just like a real You know, something completely out of left field, where suddenly there's this, like, government agency that's, like, you know, telling us we're not allowed to operate, and, you know, we're quite a bit bigger now, but at the time, we were really, you know, a small startup, and, you know, it didn't seem like we were doing anything wrong or anything illegal, even, you know, and so it was, um, it was, it was quite upsetting, or, or create quite a lot of anxiety at first, um, And, and actually quite a bit of fear because I thought about it as like, gosh, if you're Uber or Lyft, and like everyone uses Uber, then you have this sort of built-in constituency of people who are using the service and, you know, just li…

AI assessment note: “we were kind of going back and forth with the DOI for several months”

Q You obviously were probably frustrated and, and struggling with hearing all that when you started off, but you ended up with a very successful outcome. Like, how did you guys actually get there?

A Well, so we were kind of going back and forth with the DOI for several months. Um, uh, you know, before everything kind of blew up and, And then, you know, we thought maybe we were going to work it out that, you know, they weren't really going to sort of do this. It didn't make any sense. And then, you know, they kind of like issued their decision, or they sent us a preview of their decision, and I mean, I felt like I'd been punched in the gut, because, you know, in starting a company like this, I feel like, you know, I understood sort of like sales, and I understood how to build software, and how to build good products, and stuff like that. Um, but this was just like a real You know, something completely out of left field, where suddenly there's this, like, government agency that's, like, you know, telling us we're not allowed to operate, and, you know, we're quite a bit bigger now, but at the time, we were really, you know, a small startup, and, you know, it didn't seem like we were doing anything wrong or anything illegal, even, you know, and so it was, um, it was, it was quite upsetting, or, or create quite a lot of anxiety at first, um, And, and actually quite a bit of fear because I thought about it as like, gosh, if you're Uber or Lyft, and like everyone uses Uber, then you have this sort of built-in constituency of people who are using the service and, you know, just li…

AI assessment note: “we were kind of going back and forth with the DOI for several months”