The Exchanges

Q I know you originally created something called astrograph, and I heard you say on an interview that actually seeing the amount of stuff, some of it being valuable, some of it being junk, actually caused you to cry because it was so, I guess, devastating, or maybe let's hear from your words. Why did that trigger that kind of emotion in seeing that?

A My career started NASA's Jet Propulsion Lab working on Mars missions, but when I moved to Mali, In 2006, I started working with the Air Force Research Lab with the telescopes on top of Mount Haleakala, and all of a sudden, at that time in 2006, there were only 1200 working satellites and 26,000 pieces of garbage. And I'm like, what? Like, this doesn't make any sense. Holy cow! Like, this is ridiculous. How is that, how is it okay for, like, 96% of the stuff that we put in space to turn out To be garbage. Like, we don't see that in other domains. We don't, we don't have as acceptable. Okay, we're going to put a bunch of stuff out here on the land, but 96% of the stuff we're going to put out is going to be trash. Like, we don't do that.

AI assessment note: “How is that, how is it okay for, like, 96% of the stuff”

Q I know you originally created something called Astrograph, and I heard you say on an interview that actually seeing the amount of stuff, some of it being valuable, some of it being junk, actually caused you to cry because it was so, I guess, devastating, or maybe let's hear from your words. Why did that trigger that kind of emotion in seeing that?

A My career started NASA's Jet Propulsion Lab working on Mars missions, but when I moved to Mali in I started working with the Air Force Research Lab with the telescopes on top of Mount Kaliakala, and all of a sudden, at that time in 2006, there were only 1200 working satellites and 26,000 pieces of garbage. And I'm like, what? Like, this doesn't make any sense. Holy cow! Like, this is ridiculous. How is that, how is it okay for, like, 96% of the stuff that we put in space to turn out To be garbage. Like, we don't see that in other domains. We don't, we don't have as acceptable, okay, we're gonna put a bunch of stuff out here on the land, but 96% of the stuff we're gonna put out is gonna be trash. Like, we don't do that.

AI assessment note: “there were only 1200 working satellites and 26,000 pieces of garbage”

Q I know you originally created something called Astrograph, and I heard you say on an interview that actually seeing the amount of stuff, some of it being valuable, some of it being junk, actually caused you to cry because it was so, I guess, devastating, or maybe let's hear from your words. Why did that trigger that kind of emotion in seeing that?

A My career started NASA's Jet Propulsion Lab working on Mars missions, but when I moved to Mali in I started working with the Air Force Research Lab with the telescopes on top of Mount Kaliakala, and all of a sudden, at that time in 2006, there were only 1200 working satellites and 26,000 pieces of garbage. And I'm like, what? Like, this doesn't make any sense. Holy cow! Like, this is ridiculous. How is that, how is it okay for, like, 96% of the stuff that we put in space to turn out To be garbage. Like, we don't see that in other domains. We don't, we don't have as acceptable, okay, we're gonna put a bunch of stuff out here on the land, but 96% of the stuff we're gonna put out is gonna be trash. Like, we don't do that.

AI assessment note: “there were only 1200 working satellites and 26,000 pieces of garbage”

Q I know you originally created something called astrograph, and I heard you say on an interview that actually seeing the amount of stuff, some of it being valuable, some of it being junk, actually caused you to cry because it was so, I guess, devastating, or maybe let's hear from your words. Why did that trigger that kind of emotion in seeing that?

A My career started NASA's Jet Propulsion Lab working on Mars missions, but when I moved to Mali, In 2006, I started working with the Air Force Research Lab with the telescopes on top of Mount Haleakala, and all of a sudden, at that time in 2006, there were only 1200 working satellites and 26,000 pieces of garbage. And I'm like, what? Like, this doesn't make any sense. Holy cow! Like, this is ridiculous. How is that, how is it okay for, like, 96% of the stuff that we put in space to turn out To be garbage. Like, we don't see that in other domains. We don't, we don't have as acceptable. Okay, we're going to put a bunch of stuff out here on the land, but 96% of the stuff we're going to put out is going to be trash. Like, we don't do that.

AI assessment note: “there were only 1200 working satellites and 26,000 pieces of garbage”

Q within. As we talked about before, it's not an infinite resource, at least within that dimension. Is there a reality where we've completely exhausted that resource? Like, if people do continue to just ship stuff without any sort of coordination between parties, is there a reality where at some point we just say, we actually can't fit any more satellites, or we can't use this resource anymore, it's completely exhausted?

A Yeah, I mean, one of the things that we're actually working on is trying to develop something that we call orbital carrying capacity. So just like there's a carrying capacity to a plot of land or an ecosystem, a carrying capacity to a regular highway, carrying capacity to orbital highways. And I think the best way to think about it is when do you know this capacity is exhausted or saturated? You know that the orbital carrying capacity is past its limit when our decisions and actions can no longer prevent bad things from happening. So if we're trying to do everything possible to avoid things colliding with each other or to avoid interfering with each other, and we can't help but see those things happen by all intents and purposes, That orbit is no longer able to provide us with the benefits that we intended, and we, we have lost the capacity to use it, and so I predict with absolute certainty, if our behavior doesn't change, there will be orbital highways whose capacity will be saturated, and we'll, we're just gonna see an increasing amount of undesirable outcomes occur.

AI assessment note: “I predict with absolute certainty, if our behavior doesn't change, there will be”

Q Moriba, if, if there's 40% that is not in compliance, who is the space cop?

A I have some good news and bad news. The good news is, I know the answer, the bad news, it's the same countries that are non-compliant. I think the thing that really needs to happen, uh, Steph, is Transparency. If people know that they're being watched, and that the evidence is being brought to the public square, that might be a deterrent. It might help curve people's behavior and that sort of stuff in space, because ultimately, in terms of international law, the responsibility falls on states prior to the treaty, which are governments. So governments are responsible. Governments need to be the enforcers. But if nobody actually knows, if there's no evidence that You know, companies that are being licensed by the governments are misbehaving, then it's kind of like, who cares?

AI assessment note: “the bad news, it's the same countries that are non-compliant”

Q within. As we talked about before, it's not an infinite resource, at least within that dimension. Is there a reality where we've completely exhausted that resource? Like, if people do continue to just ship stuff without any sort of coordination between parties, is there a reality where at some point we just say, we actually can't fit any more satellites, or we can't use this resource anymore, it's completely exhausted?

A Yeah, I mean, one of the things that we're actually working on is trying to develop something that we call orbital carrying capacity. So just like there's a carrying capacity to a plot of land or an ecosystem, a carrying capacity to a regular highway, carrying capacity to orbital highways. And I think the best way to think about it is when do you know this capacity is exhausted or saturated? You know that the orbital carrying capacity is past its limit when our decisions and actions can no longer prevent bad things from happening. So if we're trying to do everything possible to avoid things colliding with each other or to avoid interfering with each other, and we can't help but see those things happen by all intents and purposes, That orbit is no longer able to provide us with the benefits that we intended, and we, we have lost the capacity to use it, and so I predict with absolute certainty, if our behavior doesn't change, there will be orbital highways whose capacity will be saturated, and we'll, we're just gonna see an increasing amount of undesirable outcomes occur.

AI assessment note: “I predict with absolute certainty, if our behavior doesn't change, there will be orbital highways whose capacity will be saturated”

Q more stuff is going to be launched into space. I, I hear you that there is some sort of compliance where they need the regulatory bodies to enable that, but how do we see the amount of stuff, whether it's from governments or from private actors, How is that changing in terms of just the sheer amount being launched into space? And how is that going to change moving forward?

A Here's the deal, Steph. There's a lot of money to be made from having robots that we call satellites in space. Physics tells us that two things can't occupy the same space at the same time, and there are no deeds. So it's a first come first serve kind of stuff. At this point, if you want to launch a satellite that goes above 500 kilometers of altitude, In today's world, you have to coordinate with Elon, because Elon has almost 3000 satellites at 500 kilometer altitude, and it would be wise for you to talk to Elon before you try to go through the orbital shell that he has. It doesn't belong to him. It doesn't belong to SpaceX. It doesn't belong to anybody, but he's operating there, and by all intents and purposes, the United States Basically is occupying a shell at 500 kilometer altitude, and that makes people very angry. And so when I say, oh, well, people need to, you know, curve their behavior and, you know, there needs to be enforcement and all this stuff. Countries are like, well, if, if, if it's first come first serve, I want to get there first. I'm going to authorize as many people as quickly as possible to operate in that space. And once it's there, it's like, oh, sounds like Can't launch your thing here because, you know, it's congested.

AI assessment note: “I'm going to authorize as many people as quickly as possible to operate”

Q and becoming a multi-planetary species, What are the things that we depend on every single day on Earth, even potentially that we're depending on, on this call, that rely on space? And maybe also, how much redundancy is there? So if we were to use GPS as an example, like, do we have backup on backup on backup, or is it really like one system that is very, very fragile?

A Picking the thread on global navigation satellite systems, I don't know, have, have you been to a place where they sell like maps these days, uh, that you fold out maps and, you know, compasses, people don't make those things anymore. The way that we navigate and find our way from point A to point B is really all dominated by satellite systems at this point. And the people that knew how to navigate, uh, and stuff without that system, Are either long gone, those companies don't exist anymore. Certainly our youth has no clue whatsoever. This new generation of people, they have no idea how to get from point A to point B in the absence of satellites pretty much telling them how this has happened. And not only that, Steph, the technology that we use today, many of the applications rely uniquely on position navigation and timing services provided by these satellites. And if that went away, The app itself just stops working. Everything from produce and, and, and think, you know, food across the country or across the globe, uh, transportation systems, like all these things stop working, and that's just from global navigation satellite systems. That's not even talking about Earth observation with, I don't know, monitoring climate change, hydrology and agriculture, wars in Ukraine, that sort of stuff.

AI assessment note: “many of the applications rely uniquely on position navigation and timing services provided by these satellites”

Q more stuff is going to be launched into space. I, I hear you that there is some sort of compliance where they need the regulatory bodies to enable that, but how do we see the amount of stuff, whether it's from governments or from private actors, How is that changing in terms of just the sheer amount being launched into space? And how is that going to change moving forward?

A Here's the deal, Steph. There's a lot of money to be made from having robots that we call satellites in space. Physics tells us that two things can't occupy the same space at the same time, and there are no deeds. So it's a first come first serve kind of stuff. At this point, if you want to launch a satellite that goes above 500 kilometers of altitude, In today's world, you have to coordinate with Elon, because Elon has almost 3000 satellites at 500 kilometer altitude, and it would be wise for you to talk to Elon before you try to go through the orbital shell that he has. It doesn't belong to him. It doesn't belong to SpaceX. It doesn't belong to anybody, but he's operating there, and by all intents and purposes, the United States Basically is occupying a shell at 500 kilometer altitude, and that makes people very angry. And so when I say, oh, well, people need to, you know, curve their behavior and, you know, there needs to be enforcement and all this stuff. Countries are like, well, if, if, if it's first come first serve, I want to get there first. I'm going to authorize as many people as quickly as possible to operate in that space. And once it's there, it's like, oh, sounds like Can't launch your thing here because, you know, it's congested.

AI assessment note: “if it's first come first serve, I want to get there first.”

Q Moriba, if, if there's 40% that is not in compliance, who is the space cop?

A I have some good news and bad news. The good news is, I know the answer, the bad news, it's the same countries that are non-compliant. I think the thing that really needs to happen, uh, Steph, is Transparency. If people know that they're being watched, and that the evidence is being brought to the public square, that might be a deterrent. It might help curve people's behavior and that sort of stuff in space, because ultimately, in terms of international law, the responsibility falls on states prior to the treaty, which are governments. So governments are responsible. Governments need to be the enforcers. But if nobody actually knows, if there's no evidence that You know, companies that are being licensed by the governments are misbehaving, then it's kind of like, who cares?

AI assessment note: “Governments need to be the enforcers.”

Q and becoming a multi-planetary species, What are the things that we depend on every single day on Earth, even potentially that we're depending on, on this call, that rely on space? And maybe also, how much redundancy is there? So if we were to use GPS as an example, like, do we have backup on backup on backup, or is it really like one system that is very, very fragile?

A Picking the thread on global navigation satellite systems, I don't know, have, have you been to a place where they sell like maps these days, uh, that you fold out maps and, you know, compasses, people don't make those things anymore. The way that we navigate and find our way from point A to point B is really all dominated by satellite systems at this point. And the people that knew how to navigate, uh, and stuff without that system, Are either long gone, those companies don't exist anymore. Certainly our youth has no clue whatsoever. This new generation of people, they have no idea how to get from point A to point B in the absence of satellites pretty much telling them how this has happened. And not only that, Steph, the technology that we use today, many of the applications rely uniquely on position navigation and timing services provided by these satellites. And if that went away, The app itself just stops working. Everything from produce and, and, and think, you know, food across the country or across the globe, uh, transportation systems, like all these things stop working, and that's just from global navigation satellite systems. That's not even talking about Earth observation with, I don't know, monitoring climate change, hydrology and agriculture, wars in Ukraine, that sort of stuff.

AI assessment note: “many of the applications rely uniquely on position navigation and timing services”

Q the, the technical side. What is most needed in this space? I'm gonna ask you, Morba, in terms of the types of talent, the, the types of people that privateer is looking for. I've also heard you say that you're a blue-collar PhD and you're, Again, you think space is for everybody. So who are the types of people that you would love to see get more involved in space?

A So, um, I've heard a lot of talk about STEM and, uh, the focus on STEM and then STEAM, uh, kind of stuff. And I've stopped for the most part using the word science and using the word engineering because it is not inclusive. At the end of the day, science is about creation of knowledge. And engineering is about creation of solutions. And when I go into rooms across the globe, whether it's in rural areas or in places with affluent people and blah, blah, blah, it's like, and I say, Hey, who is, who, who's into creating knowledge and who's into like creating solutions? Almost everybody raises their hands. So the thing is, we want to, we don't want to presuppose where the best ideas to solve these wicked problems across humanity are going to come from. We want to basically make that accessible to recruit, to recruit empathy across humanity. And for those people that can have an experience that empathy towards solving these problems, lower the entry bar to get their solutions as quickly and as efficiently as possible to solve these things. This is all to say that, you know, I've met people in very rural areas where the way that they have solved problems and created knowledge For their own group, their own tribe, these sorts of things. I'm like, wow. I mean, I got a PhD. I don't think I could have come up with that one anytime soon. I'm mesmerized by the stuff that people can come up.…

AI assessment note: “we don't want to presuppose where the best ideas to solve these wicked problems”

Q the, the technical side. What is most needed in this space? I'm gonna ask you, Morba, in terms of the types of talent, the, the types of people that privateer is looking for. I've also heard you say that you're a blue-collar PhD and you're, Again, you think space is for everybody. So who are the types of people that you would love to see get more involved in space?

A So, um, I've heard a lot of talk about STEM and, uh, the focus on STEM and then STEAM, uh, kind of stuff. And I've stopped for the most part using the word science and using the word engineering because it is not inclusive. At the end of the day, science is about creation of knowledge. And engineering is about creation of solutions. And when I go into rooms across the globe, whether it's in rural areas or in places with affluent people and blah, blah, blah, it's like, and I say, Hey, who is, who, who's into creating knowledge and who's into like creating solutions? Almost everybody raises their hands. So the thing is, we want to, we don't want to presuppose where the best ideas to solve these wicked problems across humanity are going to come from. We want to basically make that accessible to recruit, to recruit empathy across humanity. And for those people that can have an experience that empathy towards solving these problems, lower the entry bar to get their solutions as quickly and as efficiently as possible to solve these things. This is all to say that, you know, I've met people in very rural areas where the way that they have solved problems and created knowledge For their own group, their own tribe, these sorts of things. I'm like, wow. I mean, I got a PhD. I don't think I could have come up with that one anytime soon. I'm mesmerized by the stuff that people can come up.…

AI assessment note: “we don't want to presuppose where the best ideas to solve these wicked problems”