The Exchanges

Q Maybe we can talk about the use case, right? So when we're talking about, let's say, a military base, What is the current state, right? If we're not using these micro reactors, what is being used today, and what's the trade-off there if we can't actually get to that future reactor?

A Current state at the military base is that they have backup generators. Like any, any site that has critical infrastructure, um, those backup generators will have diesel storage tanks. There'll be 40,000 to, to a 150,000 gallons of diesel, um, on those sites, and they'll only, only use it in a backup scenario, so it requires they put batteries all over the installation, and, uh, if there is an outage, they're typically gonna run out of that diesel. Um, especially if there's, you know, something like the, that, uh, Colonial Pipeline ransomware attack, where we lost an ability to move fuel in a huge multi-state area. Um, and they run out of fuel before their, their timeframe, which is, uh, usually a 14 day resilience timeframe. Um, so they've got a problem, and they're looking for solutions, and they're actually very interested in, um, both categories of microreactor, because those are the, around the scale of the base. All of the larger ones, an SMR or a gigawatt class, uh, reactor would be too large for them.

AI assessment note: “Current state at the military base is that they have backup generators.”

Q Maybe we can talk about the use case, right? So when we're talking about, let's say, a military base, What is the current state, right? If we're not using these micro reactors, what is being used today, and what's the trade-off there if we can't actually get to that future reactor?

A Current state at the military base is that they have backup generators. Like any, any site that has critical infrastructure, um, those backup generators will have diesel storage tanks. There'll be 40,000 to, to a 150,000 gallons of diesel, um, on those sites, and they'll only, only use it in a backup scenario, so it requires they put batteries all over the installation, and, uh, if there is an outage, they're typically gonna run out of that diesel. Um, especially if there's, you know, something like the, that, uh, Colonial Pipeline ransomware attack, where we lost an ability to move fuel in a huge multi-state area. Um, and they run out of fuel before their, their timeframe, which is, uh, usually a 14 day resilience timeframe. Um, so they've got a problem, and they're looking for solutions, and they're actually very interested in, um, both categories of microreactor, because those are the, around the scale of the base. All of the larger ones, an SMR or a gigawatt class, uh, reactor would be too large for them.

AI assessment note: “Current state at the military base is that they have backup generators.”

Q an assembly line of reactors is one that, you know, A few years ago might have sounded outlandish, but now there are builders creating this. Where will we be, like, let's say in a decade if this does come online? Can you just paint a picture, Doug, of, you know, where these reactors could be deployed and how maybe broadly they might be deployed and the use cases for them?

A Yeah, absolutely. So we'll start the 10 years in, in twenty-twenty-six. So ideally we fuel and demonstrate at full power in the dome. Uh, and then in, by twenty-twenty-eight we have one commercial unit, just a few years later. To do that we're, we're really running two regulatory efforts in parallel. Um, and then three units in twenty-twenty-nine, eight units in twenty-thirty, scaling on up until we're at twenty-thirty-six, we should be making 50 units a year. A reactor a week coming off a line. Um, And the reactor we're developing, it's a heavy unit, but it can fit in a C-seventeen aircraft or on a truck, and you can move it around, get it wherever it needs to go in the world. Um, the optimal use case is really replacing some diesel generators in some remote region, and then a reactor lasts for five years, approximately out in the field, and then it's shut down, and then we bring it back to that factory to refuel it. So it is not only a new reactor construction factory, um, but a line producing a bunch of new cores and a refueling facility. All co-located on the same, you know, 25 acre or so plot of land. And, and so what we would do is have a population of about a thousand of these out in the world, because we're planning for a 20 year licensing time frame. So you've got 50 a year, and about 20 years they last, and so there's kind of a thousand of them that we can go and put …

AI assessment note: “optimal use case is really replacing some diesel generators in some remote region”

Q Absolutely. Doug, anything you'd add there in terms of, you could say, a wish list, you're building in this space, and there are so many different factors that come together. What do you hope to see, whether it's the supply chain, the workforces, the regulation that we've talked a lot about?

A Uh, I'm thinking, we talked very long-term, I'm thinking much more short-term about my wish list, because I have a very tight schedule. Um, operating the dome is just two years away. 23 months. Um, uh, I need to make sure I get access to fuel. Um, something David mentioned, it's really challenging, and Outdrop has been helping. We talk about this regularly, and I appreciate it. Um, but it's still a challenge for us. Uh, I think a, a real micro-reactor demonstration program from the federal side would probably be the single biggest thing we could do to accelerate our efforts to commercialization. Um, and I think that would help cross-pollinate every other project that we have going on.

AI assessment note: “a real micro-reactor demonstration program from the federal side would probably be the single biggest thing”

Q Doug, obviously you're building in this space. How do you think about those relationships, whether it's with regulators or with the large workforces that are needed in some of these cases? How do you think of those relationships becoming productive?

A I have so much I want to unpack. So I think what Dr. Huff was talking about, um, I want to connect a little further. So a really, really big plant that was built like that is amazing. It's awesome. And all that workforce that we trained, and I think that can apply across this entire spectrum of the different reactor sizes, that any successful project should be cross-pounding that other project, and it's not just from regulatory sense, but from just gaining that experience, that learning by doing, and getting the cost to be lower. So, I'm excited to be part of that, way down at the tiny end of the spectrum where we're, our reactors are 1000 times smaller, but the, the regulatory environment Uh, does need to change, and I think we were already working on it. There are a bunch of NRC modernization efforts, um, coming by direction through Congress. Um, we've been working on developing things like 10 CFR 53, and that will be an ongoing and continuing effort, but I think for it to really succeed, we need reactors to get built, to get fueled, to demonstrate, and the DOE, to a large degree, are already fully supporting that.

AI assessment note: “NRC modernization efforts, um, coming by direction through Congress. Um, we've been working on”

Q Um, and just for the audience, can you break down what some of those changes are?

A Um, well, I think some of the changes are really just broad, broad spectrum. We don't have reactors that are this small that can be built in a factory. I'm just going to talk about portable micro reactors only. Um, you know, for us to succeed at doing that, our timeline has not changed since we started the company in twenty-twenty. We want to do a field demonstration in twenty-twenty-six. Um, we're, we're going to go through DOE authorization licensing, this path that exists at the national labs to go faster than normal, um, to do a test reactor at a test facility where you've got all the national labs support, the expertise, the poster radiation experiment labs, um, We're going to do that with our first unit. Uh, our second unit, though, needs to go through NRC licensing, and so we've got to staff up in our, uh, our little 45 person company, uh, these parallel paths to support going along both sets of regulations, and I think that the two could be actually woven together in a really practical manner, and I know that people have thought about this for a while, but we just haven't achieved it, so, so it's one of the things we could do, um, but we've never cited a factory to mass produce reactors, um, What's funny about that is the regulations actually exist. If you go look at, like, the original codes, 10 CFR-fifty has a thing called a manufacturing license. It's in there and un…

AI assessment note: “we're going to go through DOE authorization licensing... our second unit, though, needs NRC”

Q Um, and just for the audience, can you break down what some of those changes are?

A Um, well, I think some of the changes are really just broad, broad spectrum. We don't have reactors that are this small that can be built in a factory. I'm just going to talk about portable micro reactors only. Um, you know, for us to succeed at doing that, our timeline has not changed since we started the company in twenty-twenty. We want to do a field demonstration in twenty-twenty-six. Um, we're, we're going to go through DOE authorization licensing, this path that exists at the national labs to go faster than normal, um, to do a test reactor at a test facility where you've got all the national labs support, the expertise, the poster radiation experiment labs, um, We're going to do that with our first unit. Uh, our second unit, though, needs to go through NRC licensing, and so we've got to staff up in our, uh, our little 45 person company, uh, these parallel paths to support going along both sets of regulations, and I think that the two could be actually woven together in a really practical manner, and I know that people have thought about this for a while, but we just haven't achieved it, so, so it's one of the things we could do, um, but we've never cited a factory to mass produce reactors, um, What's funny about that is the regulations actually exist. If you go look at, like, the original codes, 10 CFR-fifty has a thing called a manufacturing license. It's in there and un…

AI assessment note: “our second unit, though, needs to go through NRC licensing”

Q Yeah, totally. And I think there's a lot of public opinion around nuclear. Some people attribute that to, again, that slowdown over the last few decades. Doug, is there anything you'd add there and maybe other misconceptions that you think the public holds?

A I think over the past 50 years, a lot has happened. You know, uh, solar and wind technology really came about and was deployed kind of in the middle of this nuclear story we're telling. Um, and these, you know, forms of low cost energy, um, but that are not resilient forms of energy. And by the time we deployed them significantly to the grid, we started to look for a source of power that you can scale, that you can throttle up and down on demand. Um, At the same time, we, scientists started to care about climate, and then I think the, the public really has come around to really care about climate, and not just to care, but to want to do something about it, and so I think nuclear has this really cool, uh, new role to fill, um, instead of natural gas, which I agree with Dr. Huff, uh, the low cost of it definitely caused us to adopt that, to fill that need, rather than nuclear, but I think, uh, nuclear can leapfrog it.

AI assessment note: “the public really has come around to really care about climate”

Q Yeah, totally. And I think there's a lot of public opinion around nuclear. Some people attribute that to, again, that slowdown over the last few decades. Doug, is there anything you'd add there and maybe other misconceptions that you think the public holds?

A I think over the past 50 years, a lot has happened. You know, uh, solar and wind technology really came about and was deployed kind of in the middle of this nuclear story we're telling. Um, and these, you know, forms of low cost energy, um, but that are not resilient forms of energy. And by the time we deployed them significantly to the grid, we started to look for a source of power that you can scale, that you can throttle up and down on demand. Um, At the same time, we, scientists started to care about climate, and then I think the, the public really has come around to really care about climate, and not just to care, but to want to do something about it, and so I think nuclear has this really cool, uh, new role to fill, um, instead of natural gas, which I agree with Dr. Huff, uh, the low cost of it definitely caused us to adopt that, to fill that need, rather than nuclear, but I think, uh, nuclear can leapfrog it.

AI assessment note: “nuclear has this really cool, uh, new role to fill”

Q Doug, obviously you're building in this space. How do you think about those relationships, whether it's with regulators or with the large workforces that are needed in some of these cases? How do you think of those relationships becoming productive?

A I have so much I want to unpack. So I think what Dr. Huff was talking about, um, I want to connect a little further. So a really, really big plant that was built like that is amazing. It's awesome. And all that workforce that we trained, and I think that can apply across this entire spectrum of the different reactor sizes, that any successful project should be cross-pounding that other project, and it's not just from regulatory sense, but from just gaining that experience, that learning by doing, and getting the cost to be lower. So, I'm excited to be part of that, way down at the tiny end of the spectrum where we're, our reactors are 1000 times smaller, but the, the regulatory environment Uh, does need to change, and I think we were already working on it. There are a bunch of NRC modernization efforts, um, coming by direction through Congress. Um, we've been working on developing things like 10 CFR 53, and that will be an ongoing and continuing effort, but I think for it to really succeed, we need reactors to get built, to get fueled, to demonstrate, and the DOE, to a large degree, are already fully supporting that.

AI assessment note: “There are a bunch of NRC modernization efforts, um, coming by direction through Congress.”