The Exchanges

Q Awesome. Darren, I want to hear from you because you work at, well, actually both of you, Darren and Alex, you work at incredibly large, fully remote organizations. How did each of you go about that same process of building culture within your companies?

A I think it starts with defining what culture is at your particular organization, because everyone will join your organization with a different interpretation of what culture is. Past experience, their own personal beliefs, so step one is actually defining what culture is. So, of course, at GitLab this is documented. It's really composed of three things. One is values and operating principles, which Sandra already emphasized. The second is building camaraderie. You have to Formalize ways to encourage informal communication. And then third is how you work, defining how work happens. And this goes back to the sync and async conversation. Customer service, for example, works far less async than other organizations. And so you have to understand what are the ebbs and flows between the organization, uh, hedge against that friction that's going to, um, find its way in if you don't. But defining how we work plays, uh, A big part in culture, and I think a lot of companies don't pay enough attention to how work gets done and how communication happens. That is critical to culture, so being very intentional about that is a massively important third leg. I do want to say two things on that. I mentioned operating principles within values. This is how we create behaviors out of those words on a wall that you mentioned. If you look at the GitLab values page, it doesn't stop Talk with the six c…

AI assessment note: “step one is actually defining what culture is. So, of course, at GitLab this is documented.”

Q Yeah, the old guard. Still got some people there. No, I, I hear that it's, it's bouncing back, but let's jump into this idea that, um, is circling the internet. It's, it's maybe a, a silly question to start out with, and I hope that we go a little deeper than this, but I do want to ask from the three of you, is the office dead?

A Uh, I'll start, uh, with this one. I think the office mentality is dead, or at least, uh, on its last leg, and the difference there is, uh, when you talk about mentality, it's about the, the lifestyle that you had to live or the, or the persona that you had to carry in order to fit in and, um, enable yourself to have a career. That's gone, especially in the knowledge working space, um, Distributed work has enabled companies to focus on results and create atmospheres where people can do their best work from wherever they are. And so it, it leads to two new realities. One is that the actual physical office really has a new lease on life. I'm actually really excited to see what people do now that you don't have to use physical real estate the same way that you once had to use it. There's some interesting things that you could do with that from experiential spaces to bringing people together. But the other is that it enables, uh, companies to attract and retain talent from all over the world and build a culture that's focused on results, and so you're gonna get, uh, just an amazing tapestry of, of people that want to come work for, for companies all over the world when you remove, uh, the, the physical office from the equation. I'm sure we'll touch on this, but we're at the, the earliest stages of realizing that This is all about how work happens, and much less about where people a…

AI assessment note: “I think the office mentality is dead, or at least, uh, on its last leg”

Q Awesome. Darren, I want to hear from you because you work at, well, actually both of you, Darren and Alex, you work at incredibly large, fully remote organizations. How did each of you go about that same process of building culture within your companies?

A I think it starts with defining what culture is at your particular organization, because everyone will join your organization with a different interpretation of what culture is. Past experience, their own personal beliefs, so step one is actually defining what culture is. So, of course, at GitLab this is documented. It's really composed of three things. One is values and operating principles, which Sandra already emphasized. The second is building camaraderie. You have to Formalize ways to encourage informal communication. And then third is how you work, defining how work happens. And this goes back to the sync and async conversation. Customer service, for example, works far less async than other organizations. And so you have to understand what are the ebbs and flows between the organization, uh, hedge against that friction that's going to, um, find its way in if you don't. But defining how we work plays, uh, A big part in culture, and I think a lot of companies don't pay enough attention to how work gets done and how communication happens. That is critical to culture, so being very intentional about that is a massively important third leg. I do want to say two things on that. I mentioned operating principles within values. This is how we create behaviors out of those words on a wall that you mentioned. If you look at the GitLab values page, it doesn't stop Talk with the six c…

AI assessment note: “step one is actually defining what culture is. So, of course, at GitLab this is documented.”

Q heard some people say the one benefit that matters is remote work. And so things have clearly shifted, right? The supply of remote jobs has gone through the roof as has the demand, but I think the supply has shot up more. So I want to hear from you, Darren, have you seen a shift in your ability to hire Really top talent remotely. Has the marketplace become more competitive?

A Interestingly, it's yes and yes. So the market has become more competitive for the reason you just mentioned. All of a sudden, there are far more options for people to work fully remote. It used to be a very small pool of employers. Now it's much larger. But what has also happened is that people who were absolutely committed to co-located or maybe didn't even consider remote work a feasible pathway for their career Are suddenly considering it a feasible pathway for their career. So they are going out and seeking employers that are fully remote, and interestingly, were fully remote before COVID, before it was cool, because they've had a taste of what freedom and flexibility and truly getting to design your life without sacrificing your career. They've had a taste of that. And especially for employers that are forcing Teams to return to an office that becomes the trigger for them to say, okay, I've proven to myself that I can work remotely even under very suboptimal conditions. Now I'm alert to this potential that my career won't necessarily be squashed or thwarted. If I work remotely, there was a bit of a negative connotation with it before, not so much anymore. So a lot of top talent are entering the remote market. And they're specifically looking for organizations that not only offer or allow remote work, but empower people through remote work, as in, they do remote work reall…

AI assessment note: “Interestingly, it's yes and yes. So the market has become more competitive”

Q Yeah, the old guard. Still got some people there. No, I, I hear that it's, it's bouncing back, but let's jump into this idea that, um, is circling the internet. It's, it's maybe a, a silly question to start out with, and I hope that we go a little deeper than this, but I do want to ask from the three of you, is the office dead?

A Uh, I'll start, uh, with this one. I think the office mentality is dead, or at least, uh, on its last leg, and the difference there is, uh, when you talk about mentality, it's about the, the lifestyle that you had to live or the, or the persona that you had to carry in order to fit in and, um, enable yourself to have a career. That's gone, especially in the knowledge working space, um, Distributed work has enabled companies to focus on results and create atmospheres where people can do their best work from wherever they are. And so it, it leads to two new realities. One is that the actual physical office really has a new lease on life. I'm actually really excited to see what people do now that you don't have to use physical real estate the same way that you once had to use it. There's some interesting things that you could do with that from experiential spaces to bringing people together. But the other is that it enables, uh, companies to attract and retain talent from all over the world and build a culture that's focused on results, and so you're gonna get, uh, just an amazing tapestry of, of people that want to come work for, for companies all over the world when you remove, uh, the, the physical office from the equation. I'm sure we'll touch on this, but we're at the, the earliest stages of realizing that This is all about how work happens, and much less about where people a…

AI assessment note: “I think the office mentality is dead, or at least, uh, on its last leg”

Q heard some people say the one benefit that matters is remote work. And so things have clearly shifted, right? The supply of remote jobs has gone through the roof as has the demand, but I think the supply has shot up more. So I want to hear from you, Darren, have you seen a shift in your ability to hire Really top talent remotely. Has the marketplace become more competitive?

A Interestingly, it's yes and yes. So the market has become more competitive for the reason you just mentioned. All of a sudden, there are far more options for people to work fully remote. It used to be a very small pool of employers. Now it's much larger. But what has also happened is that people who were absolutely committed to co-located or maybe didn't even consider remote work a feasible pathway for their career Are suddenly considering it a feasible pathway for their career. So they are going out and seeking employers that are fully remote, and interestingly, were fully remote before COVID, before it was cool, because they've had a taste of what freedom and flexibility and truly getting to design your life without sacrificing your career. They've had a taste of that. And especially for employers that are forcing Teams to return to an office that becomes the trigger for them to say, okay, I've proven to myself that I can work remotely even under very suboptimal conditions. Now I'm alert to this potential that my career won't necessarily be squashed or thwarted. If I work remotely, there was a bit of a negative connotation with it before, not so much anymore. So a lot of top talent are entering the remote market. And they're specifically looking for organizations that not only offer or allow remote work, but empower people through remote work, as in, they do remote work reall…

AI assessment note: “Interestingly, it's yes and yes. So the market has become more competitive”

Q like, okay, I know what I'm gonna make if I, if I work here. And I think GitLab maybe pulled that back a little bit. I don't, might be public to Your internal employees, but it's certainly not public to the outside world. But how did you think about that? Or how did the company think about sharing that information and how or why has that thinking maybe been adjusted?

A Yeah. So because GitLab is so rigorous about documentation, you can Google and find old blogs about how, uh, this, we call it the compensation calculator, uh, came to exist. Uh, and the calculator that you mentioned, Steph, it is still there. Uh, it is behind an employee firewall now. So everyone that works at GitLab has access to it. If you're a recruit, you're a candidate, uh, you'll have access to it as well. Um, in becoming a public company, there were certain things that were connected to that, that just Made more sense to, um, to have it there, but we still believe in the ethos of it. Look, situational leadership applies here. The answer is, it depends. It depends on the company. It depends on your industry. It depends on if you're already profitable or not. It depends on so many market factors, and it will probably change in a quarter or a year. We are at the earliest stages of a massive globalization Shift. So pay attention. Uh, the one thing that I advise to leaders is to pay close attention to how expensive it is to rehire or regain top talent. There was this push early in the pandemic to think about cutting salaries if people moved from a high cost of market region, uh, to a lower cost of market region. But the truth is there are some ancillary costs with that. Uh, rehiring, retraining, institutional knowledge that is lost, uh, all of that Ends up, ah, factoring into…

AI assessment note: “in becoming a public company, there were certain things that were connected to that”

Q like, okay, I know what I'm gonna make if I, if I work here. And I think GitLab maybe pulled that back a little bit. I don't, might be public to Your internal employees, but it's certainly not public to the outside world. But how did you think about that? Or how did the company think about sharing that information and how or why has that thinking maybe been adjusted?

A Yeah. So because GitLab is so rigorous about documentation, you can Google and find old blogs about how, uh, this, we call it the compensation calculator, uh, came to exist. Uh, and the calculator that you mentioned, Steph, it is still there. Uh, it is behind an employee firewall now. So everyone that works at GitLab has access to it. If you're a recruit, you're a candidate, uh, you'll have access to it as well. Um, in becoming a public company, there were certain things that were connected to that, that just Made more sense to, um, to have it there, but we still believe in the ethos of it. Look, situational leadership applies here. The answer is, it depends. It depends on the company. It depends on your industry. It depends on if you're already profitable or not. It depends on so many market factors, and it will probably change in a quarter or a year. We are at the earliest stages of a massive globalization Shift. So pay attention. Uh, the one thing that I advise to leaders is to pay close attention to how expensive it is to rehire or regain top talent. There was this push early in the pandemic to think about cutting salaries if people moved from a high cost of market region, uh, to a lower cost of market region. But the truth is there are some ancillary costs with that. Uh, rehiring, retraining, institutional knowledge that is lost, uh, all of that Ends up, ah, factoring into…

AI assessment note: “in becoming a public company, there were certain things that were connected to that”