Jan 2, 2019 · 22m · a16z

a16z Podcast | A Copernican Update ... In Tech, the Smartphone is the Center

Benedict Evans · 16m spoken Michael Copeland · 4m spoken
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In this episode of the a16z Podcast, analyst Benedict Evans joins host Michael Copeland to explore the Copernican model of technology, demonstrating how smartphones have replaced PCs as the central axis of the digital world. They examine how mobile supply chain scale, global ubiquity, and software ecosystems dictate the future of connected devices, automotive technology, and legacy tech giants.

How this conversation actually went

Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. How this is scored →

The host as informed peer 3.6 Guest teaching 5.6 Guest disagreement 1.2 The host pushing back 1.6
05100:0010:0020:002:22–6:05 · The host as informed peer 3/10 Shift from PC to Mobile Supply Chain & Tech Center of Gravity Evans outlines the shift from PC to mobile ecosystems and commodity supply chains driving tech hardware innovation. Copeland clarifies that PCs are not disappearing and brings up firm partner Peter Levine's insights regarding smartphone processors entering data centers.6:05–10:48 · The host as informed peer 3/10 The Planets in Orbit: Connected Devices, TVs, and Microsoft's Shift Evans maps out connected devices and televisions as peripheral satellites orbiting the smartphone center. Copeland contributes context about Microsoft's internal culture around the Xbox division and its past attempts to own the living room.10:48–13:28 · The host as informed peer 2/10 The Smartphone as the First Universal Consumer Technology Evans details why smartphones represent humanity's first universal technology, contrasting global adult phone adoption with television ownership dynamics. Copeland prompts the comparison with TV but mostly listens to the statistical breakdown.13:28–16:09 · The host as informed peer 3/10 Android Ecosystem Dynamics: Fragmentation and Stagefright Bug Copeland raises the Stagefright security bug, which Evans uses to reframe the structural trade-offs of Android's 4,000-device hardware landscape. Copeland adds an insightful observation about consumers abandoning Windows Phone before Microsoft did.16:09–21:59 · The host as informed peer 7/10 Mapping Wars: German Automakers, Nokia Here, Uber, and Car Software Evans breaks down the strategic war over digital mapping between automakers, Apple, and Uber. Copeland displays notable expertise from prior journalistic interviews with car executives and questions whether legacy automakers can manage software assets.2:22–6:05 · Guest teaching 5/10 Shift from PC to Mobile Supply Chain & Tech Center of Gravity Evans outlines the shift from PC to mobile ecosystems and commodity supply chains driving tech hardware innovation. Copeland clarifies that PCs are not disappearing and brings up firm partner Peter Levine's insights regarding smartphone processors entering data centers.6:05–10:48 · Guest teaching 5/10 The Planets in Orbit: Connected Devices, TVs, and Microsoft's Shift Evans maps out connected devices and televisions as peripheral satellites orbiting the smartphone center. Copeland contributes context about Microsoft's internal culture around the Xbox division and its past attempts to own the living room.10:48–13:28 · Guest teaching 7/10 The Smartphone as the First Universal Consumer Technology Evans details why smartphones represent humanity's first universal technology, contrasting global adult phone adoption with television ownership dynamics. Copeland prompts the comparison with TV but mostly listens to the statistical breakdown.13:28–16:09 · Guest teaching 6/10 Android Ecosystem Dynamics: Fragmentation and Stagefright Bug Copeland raises the Stagefright security bug, which Evans uses to reframe the structural trade-offs of Android's 4,000-device hardware landscape. Copeland adds an insightful observation about consumers abandoning Windows Phone before Microsoft did.16:09–21:59 · Guest teaching 5/10 Mapping Wars: German Automakers, Nokia Here, Uber, and Car Software Evans breaks down the strategic war over digital mapping between automakers, Apple, and Uber. Copeland displays notable expertise from prior journalistic interviews with car executives and questions whether legacy automakers can manage software assets.2:22–6:05 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Shift from PC to Mobile Supply Chain & Tech Center of Gravity Evans outlines the shift from PC to mobile ecosystems and commodity supply chains driving tech hardware innovation. Copeland clarifies that PCs are not disappearing and brings up firm partner Peter Levine's insights regarding smartphone processors entering data centers.6:05–10:48 · Guest disagreement 1/10 The Planets in Orbit: Connected Devices, TVs, and Microsoft's Shift Evans maps out connected devices and televisions as peripheral satellites orbiting the smartphone center. Copeland contributes context about Microsoft's internal culture around the Xbox division and its past attempts to own the living room.10:48–13:28 · Guest disagreement 1/10 The Smartphone as the First Universal Consumer Technology Evans details why smartphones represent humanity's first universal technology, contrasting global adult phone adoption with television ownership dynamics. Copeland prompts the comparison with TV but mostly listens to the statistical breakdown.13:28–16:09 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Android Ecosystem Dynamics: Fragmentation and Stagefright Bug Copeland raises the Stagefright security bug, which Evans uses to reframe the structural trade-offs of Android's 4,000-device hardware landscape. Copeland adds an insightful observation about consumers abandoning Windows Phone before Microsoft did.16:09–21:59 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Mapping Wars: German Automakers, Nokia Here, Uber, and Car Software Evans breaks down the strategic war over digital mapping between automakers, Apple, and Uber. Copeland displays notable expertise from prior journalistic interviews with car executives and questions whether legacy automakers can manage software assets.2:22–6:05 · The host pushing back 2/10 Shift from PC to Mobile Supply Chain & Tech Center of Gravity Evans outlines the shift from PC to mobile ecosystems and commodity supply chains driving tech hardware innovation. Copeland clarifies that PCs are not disappearing and brings up firm partner Peter Levine's insights regarding smartphone processors entering data centers.6:05–10:48 · The host pushing back 1/10 The Planets in Orbit: Connected Devices, TVs, and Microsoft's Shift Evans maps out connected devices and televisions as peripheral satellites orbiting the smartphone center. Copeland contributes context about Microsoft's internal culture around the Xbox division and its past attempts to own the living room.10:48–13:28 · The host pushing back 1/10 The Smartphone as the First Universal Consumer Technology Evans details why smartphones represent humanity's first universal technology, contrasting global adult phone adoption with television ownership dynamics. Copeland prompts the comparison with TV but mostly listens to the statistical breakdown.13:28–16:09 · The host pushing back 1/10 Android Ecosystem Dynamics: Fragmentation and Stagefright Bug Copeland raises the Stagefright security bug, which Evans uses to reframe the structural trade-offs of Android's 4,000-device hardware landscape. Copeland adds an insightful observation about consumers abandoning Windows Phone before Microsoft did.16:09–21:59 · The host pushing back 3/10 Mapping Wars: German Automakers, Nokia Here, Uber, and Car Software Evans breaks down the strategic war over digital mapping between automakers, Apple, and Uber. Copeland displays notable expertise from prior journalistic interviews with car executives and questions whether legacy automakers can manage software assets.

speaking balance: gold is the host, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)

0:00 · the host 0% · guest 100%0:00 · the host 0% · guest 100%3:00 · the host 0% · guest 100%3:00 · the host 0% · guest 100%6:00 · the host 0% · guest 100%6:00 · the host 0% · guest 100%9:00 · the host 0% · guest 100%9:00 · the host 0% · guest 100%12:00 · the host 0% · guest 100%12:00 · the host 0% · guest 100%15:00 · the host 0% · guest 100%15:00 · the host 0% · guest 100%18:00 · the host 0% · guest 100%18:00 · the host 0% · guest 100%21:00 · the host 0% · guest 100%21:00 · the host 0% · guest 100%
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 13:33 Stagefright Reframing

Evans playfully counters the host's alarm over the Stagefright bug by contrarianly joking that it created the first app reliable across 95% of Android devices.

Hardest push from the host ▶ 20:38 Doubting Automaker Software Capabilities

Copeland challenges the narrative that automakers buying Nokia Here solves their software problem, questioning whether non-software firms can execute on acquired tech platforms.

Biggest teaching moment ▶ 11:16 Universal Reach Metrics

Evans educates the host on global device demographics, contrasting individual mobile ownership in developing markets with shared village television usage.

The host holds their own ▶ 20:38 Auto Industry Journalist Insights

Copeland demonstrates expert reporting background by recalling how he directly warned auto executives years prior that their dashboard domain would be displaced by smartphones.

the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
ChapterTopicThe host as informed peerGuest teachingGuest disagreementThe host pushing backWhy
Shift from PC to Mobile Supply Chain & Tech Center of Gravity 3512 Evans outlines the shift from PC to mobile ecosystems and commodity supply chains driving tech hardware innovation. Copeland clarifies that PCs are not disappearing and brings up firm partner Peter Levine's insights regarding smartphone processors entering data centers.
The Planets in Orbit: Connected Devices, TVs, and Microsoft's Shift 3511 Evans maps out connected devices and televisions as peripheral satellites orbiting the smartphone center. Copeland contributes context about Microsoft's internal culture around the Xbox division and its past attempts to own the living room.
The Smartphone as the First Universal Consumer Technology 2711 Evans details why smartphones represent humanity's first universal technology, contrasting global adult phone adoption with television ownership dynamics. Copeland prompts the comparison with TV but mostly listens to the statistical breakdown.
Android Ecosystem Dynamics: Fragmentation and Stagefright Bug 3621 Copeland raises the Stagefright security bug, which Evans uses to reframe the structural trade-offs of Android's 4,000-device hardware landscape. Copeland adds an insightful observation about consumers abandoning Windows Phone before Microsoft did.
Mapping Wars: German Automakers, Nokia Here, Uber, and Car Software 7513 Evans breaks down the strategic war over digital mapping between automakers, Apple, and Uber. Copeland displays notable expertise from prior journalistic interviews with car executives and questions whether legacy automakers can manage software assets.

Statements from this episode (12)

Prediction Partly held up
Evans predicts global hardware will settle at 4 to 5 billion smartphones
“There's probably two billion smartphones on earth today, maybe two and a half billion, and the great majority of those mobile phones will convert. And so we'll end up with something like one and a half billion PCs and four to five billion smartphones and those…”
Benedict Evans Jan 2, 2019 ▶ 2:52
Insight
Evans: Smartphone components are the "Lego" driving drones, wearables, and IoT
“It's as though someone took a shipping container of Lego and dumped it on the floor. You have all these bits, and we're just picking them up, working out what we can do with them. And so that's what's behind drones and wearables and connected TVs and connected…”
Benedict Evans Jan 2, 2019 ▶ 4:14
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Evans: Tech's center of gravity shifted from Seattle and Finland to China
“So it used to be that you would go to Microsoft or entity Docomo or Nokia or Intel to find out the future. And you'd go to Seattle, and you'd go to Finland, and you'd go to Japan to see the future. And that's not true anymore. Now it's about Apple and Google, …”
Benedict Evans Jan 2, 2019 ▶ 5:18
Opinion
Evans: Microsoft and Intel No Longer Set Tech Industry Agenda
“And again, that doesn't mean that Microsoft or Intel have gone away, it just means that they're not setting the agenda anymore at all.”
Benedict Evans Jan 2, 2019 ▶ 5:56
Assertion Not yet assessed · timeframe Aug 2015
Evans: Satya Nadella explicitly signaled that Xbox is no longer Microsoft's core
“It's not just the death of Windows everywhere, it's also that Satya said very clearly that the Xbox isn't core anymore.”
Benedict Evans Jan 2, 2019 ▶ 7:57
Prediction Didn’t hold up
Evans predicts TVs will become secondary display screens controlled by smartphones
“For the vast majority of people, the TV will be done whilst for the smartphone. Rather than, so it won't be a box that's plugged into your TV that runs your whole digital experience.”
Benedict Evans Jan 2, 2019 ▶ 10:06
Prediction Open · timeframe Aug 2020
Evans predicts mobile penetration in sub-Saharan Africa will reach 70 to 80%
“You look at sub-Saharan Africa, it's already at 40% population penetration of mobile phones, and that will go up to the same 70, 80% that you have in Western Europe.”
Benedict Evans Jan 2, 2019 ▶ 11:59
Assertion Supported
Evans: Unsubsidized Android smartphones now cost as little as $30 to $40
“A mobile entry price of a mobile phone now is five to 10 dollars to buy the phone, and an Android phone is 30 to 40 dollars, and that's not subsidized price, that's the actual price of buying the thing.”
Benedict Evans Jan 2, 2019 ▶ 12:15
Assertion Supported
Evans: Only 700 to 800 million PCs worldwide are in consumer homes
“And PCs are about one and a half billion, and half of those are corporate. So it's eight hundred million PCs, or seven or eight hundred million PCs that are in someone's home.”
Benedict Evans Jan 2, 2019 ▶ 12:50
Assertion Partly supported
Evans: Over 95% of non-China Android devices run latest Google Play Services
“So on the one hand, something like 96, 97% of all live Android phones outside China Where Google isn't present, but all the ones outside China that are therefore mostly connected to Google. Over 95% of these things have the latest player version of Google Play…”
Benedict Evans Jan 2, 2019 ▶ 14:22
Insight
Evans: Digital maps are the PageRank equivalent for the physical world
“The way that I think about maps are sort of, is that maps are kind of page rank for the real world.”
Benedict Evans Jan 2, 2019 ▶ 19:43
Insight
Evans: Software engineers learn traditional industries faster than traditional industries learn software
“It's a lot easier for software companies, software people to learn something else than people from another industry to learn software.”
Benedict Evans Jan 2, 2019 ▶ 21:03
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