Jan 2, 2019 · 35m · a16z

a16z Podcast | If Coding is the New Literacy, How Can More People Code?

Laura Weidman Powers · 10m spoken Susan Mernit · 9m spoken Reshma Saujani · 9m spoken Chrissy Brodigan · 3m spoken
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In this a16z podcast episode, host Chrissy Brodigan leads a panel with non-profit executives Susan Mernit, Laura Weidman Powers, and Reshma Saujani to discuss expanding code literacy, overcoming structural barriers in Silicon Valley, and building inclusive tech pathways for underrepresented communities.

How this conversation actually went

Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. How this is scored →

The host as informed peer 1.7 Guest teaching 1.8 Guest disagreement 0.8 The host pushing back 0.0
05100:0010:0020:0030:003:46–7:54 · The host as informed peer 1/10 Panelist Backgrounds and Origins of Their Non-Profits The host sets up the discussion by pointing out that none of the participants come from formal engineering backgrounds and asks about their paths into tech non-profits. The guests cooperatively share their executive and non-profit origins without conflict.7:54–11:10 · The host as informed peer 1/10 Early Mentors and Key Influences The host asks the panelists to share stories of mentors who helped them get started. Susan Mernit gently rejects the premise of the question, noting she had no mentors and had to battle her way in as an executive, pointing out a broader lack of mentorship for women in tech.11:10–19:22 · The host as informed peer 2/10 Cultivating Leadership Confidence and Embracing Failure The host asks how guests build confidence to lead their organizations. The panelists drive the conversation organically among themselves, discussing imposter syndrome, fear, and normalizing failure in tech.19:22–24:03 · The host as informed peer 4/10 Strategies for Building Student Confidence and Practical Skills The host offers domain expertise by describing GitHub Patchwork's approach of teaching through guided errors like merge conflicts before asking guests how they build student confidence. Guests respond collaboratively with practical tools from their programs.24:03–28:41 · The host as informed peer 1/10 Structural Barriers and Inclusive Cultures in Tech Companies The host asks what tech companies lack to support newcomers. Susan Mernit adds critical nuance to the discussion by pointing out that focusing solely on elite university pipelines overlooks systemic issues faced by low-income students, such as lack of childcare and non-traditional schedules.28:41–34:50 · The host as informed peer 1/10 Three Wishes for the Future of Underrepresented Learners The host poses a prompt asking each guest for three wishes for underrepresented learners. The guests respond with detailed visions for confidence, talent pipelines, and passion-driven products, ending on a warm, supportive note.3:46–7:54 · Guest teaching 1/10 Panelist Backgrounds and Origins of Their Non-Profits The host sets up the discussion by pointing out that none of the participants come from formal engineering backgrounds and asks about their paths into tech non-profits. The guests cooperatively share their executive and non-profit origins without conflict.7:54–11:10 · Guest teaching 3/10 Early Mentors and Key Influences The host asks the panelists to share stories of mentors who helped them get started. Susan Mernit gently rejects the premise of the question, noting she had no mentors and had to battle her way in as an executive, pointing out a broader lack of mentorship for women in tech.11:10–19:22 · Guest teaching 2/10 Cultivating Leadership Confidence and Embracing Failure The host asks how guests build confidence to lead their organizations. The panelists drive the conversation organically among themselves, discussing imposter syndrome, fear, and normalizing failure in tech.19:22–24:03 · Guest teaching 1/10 Strategies for Building Student Confidence and Practical Skills The host offers domain expertise by describing GitHub Patchwork's approach of teaching through guided errors like merge conflicts before asking guests how they build student confidence. Guests respond collaboratively with practical tools from their programs.24:03–28:41 · Guest teaching 3/10 Structural Barriers and Inclusive Cultures in Tech Companies The host asks what tech companies lack to support newcomers. Susan Mernit adds critical nuance to the discussion by pointing out that focusing solely on elite university pipelines overlooks systemic issues faced by low-income students, such as lack of childcare and non-traditional schedules.28:41–34:50 · Guest teaching 1/10 Three Wishes for the Future of Underrepresented Learners The host poses a prompt asking each guest for three wishes for underrepresented learners. The guests respond with detailed visions for confidence, talent pipelines, and passion-driven products, ending on a warm, supportive note.3:46–7:54 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Panelist Backgrounds and Origins of Their Non-Profits The host sets up the discussion by pointing out that none of the participants come from formal engineering backgrounds and asks about their paths into tech non-profits. The guests cooperatively share their executive and non-profit origins without conflict.7:54–11:10 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Early Mentors and Key Influences The host asks the panelists to share stories of mentors who helped them get started. Susan Mernit gently rejects the premise of the question, noting she had no mentors and had to battle her way in as an executive, pointing out a broader lack of mentorship for women in tech.11:10–19:22 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Cultivating Leadership Confidence and Embracing Failure The host asks how guests build confidence to lead their organizations. The panelists drive the conversation organically among themselves, discussing imposter syndrome, fear, and normalizing failure in tech.19:22–24:03 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Strategies for Building Student Confidence and Practical Skills The host offers domain expertise by describing GitHub Patchwork's approach of teaching through guided errors like merge conflicts before asking guests how they build student confidence. Guests respond collaboratively with practical tools from their programs.24:03–28:41 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Structural Barriers and Inclusive Cultures in Tech Companies The host asks what tech companies lack to support newcomers. Susan Mernit adds critical nuance to the discussion by pointing out that focusing solely on elite university pipelines overlooks systemic issues faced by low-income students, such as lack of childcare and non-traditional schedules.28:41–34:50 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Three Wishes for the Future of Underrepresented Learners The host poses a prompt asking each guest for three wishes for underrepresented learners. The guests respond with detailed visions for confidence, talent pipelines, and passion-driven products, ending on a warm, supportive note.3:46–7:54 · The host pushing back 0/10 Panelist Backgrounds and Origins of Their Non-Profits The host sets up the discussion by pointing out that none of the participants come from formal engineering backgrounds and asks about their paths into tech non-profits. The guests cooperatively share their executive and non-profit origins without conflict.7:54–11:10 · The host pushing back 0/10 Early Mentors and Key Influences The host asks the panelists to share stories of mentors who helped them get started. Susan Mernit gently rejects the premise of the question, noting she had no mentors and had to battle her way in as an executive, pointing out a broader lack of mentorship for women in tech.11:10–19:22 · The host pushing back 0/10 Cultivating Leadership Confidence and Embracing Failure The host asks how guests build confidence to lead their organizations. The panelists drive the conversation organically among themselves, discussing imposter syndrome, fear, and normalizing failure in tech.19:22–24:03 · The host pushing back 0/10 Strategies for Building Student Confidence and Practical Skills The host offers domain expertise by describing GitHub Patchwork's approach of teaching through guided errors like merge conflicts before asking guests how they build student confidence. Guests respond collaboratively with practical tools from their programs.24:03–28:41 · The host pushing back 0/10 Structural Barriers and Inclusive Cultures in Tech Companies The host asks what tech companies lack to support newcomers. Susan Mernit adds critical nuance to the discussion by pointing out that focusing solely on elite university pipelines overlooks systemic issues faced by low-income students, such as lack of childcare and non-traditional schedules.28:41–34:50 · The host pushing back 0/10 Three Wishes for the Future of Underrepresented Learners The host poses a prompt asking each guest for three wishes for underrepresented learners. The guests respond with detailed visions for confidence, talent pipelines, and passion-driven products, ending on a warm, supportive note.

speaking balance: gold is the host, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)

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Sharpest disagreement ▶ 10:10 Susan rejects the premise of host's question about mentors

When asked to name a mentor who helped her start out, Susan directly reframes the prompt, stating she had no mentors in tech and had to battle her way in due to being treated as an outsider.

Hardest push from the host ▶ 19:22 Host guides question framing using technical merge conflict example

Rather than accepting generic advice on confidence, the host anchors the topic around guided technical errors in open source, forcing guests to address concrete pedagogical methods.

Biggest teaching moment ▶ 27:17 Susan highlights structural barriers for low-income learners

Susan adds critical industry context to the conversation by pointing out that corporate diversity initiatives often only target elite Stanford grads while ignoring real structural issues like childcare and community college barriers.

The host holds their own ▶ 19:22 Host demonstrates pedagogical tech expertise with GitHub merge conflicts

The host demonstrates specific domain knowledge by explaining how GitHub Patchwork uses guided errors with merge conflicts to build developer resilience.

the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
ChapterTopicThe host as informed peerGuest teachingGuest disagreementThe host pushing backWhy
Panelist Backgrounds and Origins of Their Non-Profits 1100 The host sets up the discussion by pointing out that none of the participants come from formal engineering backgrounds and asks about their paths into tech non-profits. The guests cooperatively share their executive and non-profit origins without conflict.
Early Mentors and Key Influences 1320 The host asks the panelists to share stories of mentors who helped them get started. Susan Mernit gently rejects the premise of the question, noting she had no mentors and had to battle her way in as an executive, pointing out a broader lack of mentorship for women in tech.
Cultivating Leadership Confidence and Embracing Failure 2210 The host asks how guests build confidence to lead their organizations. The panelists drive the conversation organically among themselves, discussing imposter syndrome, fear, and normalizing failure in tech.
Strategies for Building Student Confidence and Practical Skills 4100 The host offers domain expertise by describing GitHub Patchwork's approach of teaching through guided errors like merge conflicts before asking guests how they build student confidence. Guests respond collaboratively with practical tools from their programs.
Structural Barriers and Inclusive Cultures in Tech Companies 1320 The host asks what tech companies lack to support newcomers. Susan Mernit adds critical nuance to the discussion by pointing out that focusing solely on elite university pipelines overlooks systemic issues faced by low-income students, such as lack of childcare and non-traditional schedules.
Three Wishes for the Future of Underrepresented Learners 1100 The host poses a prompt asking each guest for three wishes for underrepresented learners. The guests respond with detailed visions for confidence, talent pipelines, and passion-driven products, ending on a warm, supportive note.

Statements from this episode (12)

Prediction Not checkable as stated
Mernit: Basic HTML and CSS will become essential skills for adults
“I think that everyone today more and more is going to need how to, need to know how to write basic HTML, to understand CSS, to have some of the tools to manipulate environments that they live in, and that includes different kinds of scripting. So whether it's …”
Susan Mernit Jan 2, 2019 ▶ 1:39
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Saujani: Coding education lifts entire families into the middle class
“And that we have seen entire families being able to be lift up into the middle class by being, by getting access to coding and technology and getting opportunities to work in these companies.”
Reshma Saujani Jan 2, 2019 ▶ 3:30
Assertion Supported
Powers: Average tech salary exceeds combined Black and Latino household incomes
“That wealth gap, that income divide and how the salary of an average tech worker is more than the median household income of a black family and a Latino family combined.”
Laura Weidman Powers Jan 2, 2019 ▶ 5:46
Prediction Didn’t hold up
Reshma Saujani: Women will hold less than 20% of future technical jobs
“When you look at the trajectory of women, they're the majority of our breadwinners, they're the majority of our labor force, but, you know, less than 20% of them are going to be feeling the technical jobs in the future.”
Reshma Saujani Jan 2, 2019 ▶ 7:26
Disclosure
Saujani: Girls Who Code raised seed capital from individual tech executives
“When I first started Girl Who Code, we couldn't get a foundation to support us, and our first seed money came from Rochelle Parham, who was a CMO at eBay, and Beth Comstock, a CMO of GE, and Dick Hensel at Twitter, and Jack Dorsey”
Reshma Saujani Jan 2, 2019 ▶ 9:19
Assertion Supported
Saujani: Girls Who Code scaled to 3,000 students in three years
“Over the past three years, we've been able to grow from 20 girls in 2012 to 3000 today.”
Reshma Saujani Jan 2, 2019 ▶ 10:01
Insight
Saujani: Coding inherently teaches students to normalize and accept failure
“Coding is about failing. Like, it is, I mean, I'm learning how to code. I've been learning how to code. It is so frustrating. You know, especially the type A woman who wants to get my code right all the time, and that is what I love about the work that we do i…”
Reshma Saujani Jan 2, 2019 ▶ 15:31
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Powers: Only 6% of Silicon Valley startups have an HR function
“I'm gonna bungle the statistics, but I read that the percent of Silicon Valley tech startups that actually have an HR function At a point when, you know, most organizations elsewhere in the country do is like six percent.”
Laura Weidman Powers Jan 2, 2019 ▶ 25:09
Assertion Partly supported
Saujani: Female doctors and lawyers grew from 10% to 45% since 1970s
“In the 19 seventies, only 10% of doctors and lawyers were women, and today that number is 45%.”
Reshma Saujani Jan 2, 2019 ▶ 27:02
Assertion Supported
Powers: Post-Ferguson study showed white social networks are over 90% white
“Our social networks statistically speaking, are pretty homogenous. There was a really amazing study published after Ferguson showing that white people's social networks are 90 plus percent white.”
Laura Weidman Powers Jan 2, 2019 ▶ 31:12
Assertion Supported
Powers: Nearly 20% of US computer science graduates are Black or Latino
“Nearly 20% of computer science grads each year that are black or Latino around the country”
Laura Weidman Powers Jan 2, 2019 ▶ 31:41
Disclosure
Saujani: 80% of Girls Who Code students are minorities, median score 89%
“Half our girls are from free reduced lunch, 80% are minority, and what's so incredible is that, you know, the median school on the technical survey, which is the equivalent of basically a college CS one-on-one exam is an 89%”
Reshma Saujani Jan 2, 2019 ▶ 32:15
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