Jan 2, 2019 · 23m · a16z

a16z Podcast | The Internet is His Religion

Jim Gilliam · 16m spoken Ben Horowitz · 2m spoken Michael Copeland · 49s spoken
0:00 / 0:00
▶ Watch on YouTube →

gold bands on the timeline = statements, start to end. Hover to read, click to jump. CC turns on captions

In this episode of the a16z podcast, NationBuilder founder Jim Gilliam sits down with Ben Horowitz to discuss his journey through fundamentalism, cancer, and a life-saving lung transplant, explaining how these experiences shaped his unique philosophy on internet-enabled leadership and community empowerment.

How this conversation actually went

Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. How this is scored →

The host as informed peer 4.4 Guest teaching 4.6 Guest disagreement 0.8 The host pushing back 0.8
05100:0010:0020:001:17–6:34 · The host as informed peer 8/10 Father's IBM Career and Conversion to Fundamentalism Ben demonstrates strong historical computer expertise, noting that Jim's father was writing a multitasking PC OS in 1982, a feature that did not arrive on standard PC operating systems for another six to eight years. The dialogue is friendly and collaborative, with Ben asking clarifying questions about why IBM killed the deal.6:34–11:12 · The host as informed peer 6/10 Cancer Diagnosis, Loss of Faith, and Atheism Ben adds brief historical and theological context, pointing out that Liberty University was founded by Jerry Falwell and noting that biblical inerrancy stems from the Talmud. He wraps up the segment by articulating a clear thematic synthesis of Jim's life running in an inverse parallel to his father's.11:12–16:17 · The host as informed peer 2/10 Activism, Lung Transplant, and Faith in Internet Connectivity Jim shares his dramatic personal journey through cancer, activism, and receiving a lung transplant through online community advocacy. Ben acts purely as a supportive interviewer asking open prompts without offering technical pushback or expertise.16:17–19:12 · The host as informed peer 2/10 Philosophical Views on Leadership and Unique Contribution Jim lays out his philosophy on finding individual unique contributions, leadership, audacity, and humility. Ben listens intently and responds enthusiastically at the conclusion.19:12–23:07 · The host as informed peer 4/10 Founding NationBuilder and Empowering Community Leaders Jim explains how his personal philosophy led to founding NationBuilder, citing Pew Research on leadership deficits in community groups. Ben closes the episode by echoing a shared management mantra about making oneself uncomfortable.1:17–6:34 · Guest teaching 3/10 Father's IBM Career and Conversion to Fundamentalism Ben demonstrates strong historical computer expertise, noting that Jim's father was writing a multitasking PC OS in 1982, a feature that did not arrive on standard PC operating systems for another six to eight years. The dialogue is friendly and collaborative, with Ben asking clarifying questions about why IBM killed the deal.6:34–11:12 · Guest teaching 4/10 Cancer Diagnosis, Loss of Faith, and Atheism Ben adds brief historical and theological context, pointing out that Liberty University was founded by Jerry Falwell and noting that biblical inerrancy stems from the Talmud. He wraps up the segment by articulating a clear thematic synthesis of Jim's life running in an inverse parallel to his father's.11:12–16:17 · Guest teaching 6/10 Activism, Lung Transplant, and Faith in Internet Connectivity Jim shares his dramatic personal journey through cancer, activism, and receiving a lung transplant through online community advocacy. Ben acts purely as a supportive interviewer asking open prompts without offering technical pushback or expertise.16:17–19:12 · Guest teaching 5/10 Philosophical Views on Leadership and Unique Contribution Jim lays out his philosophy on finding individual unique contributions, leadership, audacity, and humility. Ben listens intently and responds enthusiastically at the conclusion.19:12–23:07 · Guest teaching 5/10 Founding NationBuilder and Empowering Community Leaders Jim explains how his personal philosophy led to founding NationBuilder, citing Pew Research on leadership deficits in community groups. Ben closes the episode by echoing a shared management mantra about making oneself uncomfortable.1:17–6:34 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Father's IBM Career and Conversion to Fundamentalism Ben demonstrates strong historical computer expertise, noting that Jim's father was writing a multitasking PC OS in 1982, a feature that did not arrive on standard PC operating systems for another six to eight years. The dialogue is friendly and collaborative, with Ben asking clarifying questions about why IBM killed the deal.6:34–11:12 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Cancer Diagnosis, Loss of Faith, and Atheism Ben adds brief historical and theological context, pointing out that Liberty University was founded by Jerry Falwell and noting that biblical inerrancy stems from the Talmud. He wraps up the segment by articulating a clear thematic synthesis of Jim's life running in an inverse parallel to his father's.11:12–16:17 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Activism, Lung Transplant, and Faith in Internet Connectivity Jim shares his dramatic personal journey through cancer, activism, and receiving a lung transplant through online community advocacy. Ben acts purely as a supportive interviewer asking open prompts without offering technical pushback or expertise.16:17–19:12 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Philosophical Views on Leadership and Unique Contribution Jim lays out his philosophy on finding individual unique contributions, leadership, audacity, and humility. Ben listens intently and responds enthusiastically at the conclusion.19:12–23:07 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Founding NationBuilder and Empowering Community Leaders Jim explains how his personal philosophy led to founding NationBuilder, citing Pew Research on leadership deficits in community groups. Ben closes the episode by echoing a shared management mantra about making oneself uncomfortable.1:17–6:34 · The host pushing back 2/10 Father's IBM Career and Conversion to Fundamentalism Ben demonstrates strong historical computer expertise, noting that Jim's father was writing a multitasking PC OS in 1982, a feature that did not arrive on standard PC operating systems for another six to eight years. The dialogue is friendly and collaborative, with Ben asking clarifying questions about why IBM killed the deal.6:34–11:12 · The host pushing back 1/10 Cancer Diagnosis, Loss of Faith, and Atheism Ben adds brief historical and theological context, pointing out that Liberty University was founded by Jerry Falwell and noting that biblical inerrancy stems from the Talmud. He wraps up the segment by articulating a clear thematic synthesis of Jim's life running in an inverse parallel to his father's.11:12–16:17 · The host pushing back 1/10 Activism, Lung Transplant, and Faith in Internet Connectivity Jim shares his dramatic personal journey through cancer, activism, and receiving a lung transplant through online community advocacy. Ben acts purely as a supportive interviewer asking open prompts without offering technical pushback or expertise.16:17–19:12 · The host pushing back 0/10 Philosophical Views on Leadership and Unique Contribution Jim lays out his philosophy on finding individual unique contributions, leadership, audacity, and humility. Ben listens intently and responds enthusiastically at the conclusion.19:12–23:07 · The host pushing back 0/10 Founding NationBuilder and Empowering Community Leaders Jim explains how his personal philosophy led to founding NationBuilder, citing Pew Research on leadership deficits in community groups. Ben closes the episode by echoing a shared management mantra about making oneself uncomfortable.

speaking balance: gold is the host, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)

0:00 · the host 0% · guest 100%0:00 · the host 0% · guest 100%3:00 · the host 0% · guest 100%3:00 · the host 0% · guest 100%6:00 · the host 0% · guest 100%6:00 · the host 0% · guest 100%9:00 · the host 0% · guest 100%9:00 · the host 0% · guest 100%12:00 · the host 0% · guest 100%12:00 · the host 0% · guest 100%15:00 · the host 0% · guest 100%15:00 · the host 0% · guest 100%18:00 · the host 0% · guest 100%18:00 · the host 0% · guest 100%21:00 · the host 0% · guest 100%21:00 · the host 0% · guest 100%
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 7:31 Reframing Liberty University

Jim playfully rejects the implied meaning of his alma mater's name, asserting that Liberty University is actually the opposite of liberty due to its strict rules.

Hardest push from the host ▶ 4:11 Pressing on IBM's Decision

Ben directly interrupts the narrative to press Jim on the exact reasons why IBM canceled his father's operating system deal.

Biggest teaching moment ▶ 14:05 Organizing Online to Overturn Medical Denial

Jim educates the host on how distributed online activism leveraged public pressure against UCLA Health to secure a life-saving double lung transplant.

The host holds their own ▶ 3:10 Technical Operating System History Knowledge

Ben highlights his deep tech knowledge by pointing out that writing a multitasking PC OS in 1982 was years ahead of commercial standards like Windows or OS/2.

the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
ChapterTopicThe host as informed peerGuest teachingGuest disagreementThe host pushing backWhy
Father's IBM Career and Conversion to Fundamentalism 8312 Ben demonstrates strong historical computer expertise, noting that Jim's father was writing a multitasking PC OS in 1982, a feature that did not arrive on standard PC operating systems for another six to eight years. The dialogue is friendly and collaborative, with Ben asking clarifying questions about why IBM killed the deal.
Cancer Diagnosis, Loss of Faith, and Atheism 6421 Ben adds brief historical and theological context, pointing out that Liberty University was founded by Jerry Falwell and noting that biblical inerrancy stems from the Talmud. He wraps up the segment by articulating a clear thematic synthesis of Jim's life running in an inverse parallel to his father's.
Activism, Lung Transplant, and Faith in Internet Connectivity 2611 Jim shares his dramatic personal journey through cancer, activism, and receiving a lung transplant through online community advocacy. Ben acts purely as a supportive interviewer asking open prompts without offering technical pushback or expertise.
Philosophical Views on Leadership and Unique Contribution 2500 Jim lays out his philosophy on finding individual unique contributions, leadership, audacity, and humility. Ben listens intently and responds enthusiastically at the conclusion.
Founding NationBuilder and Empowering Community Leaders 4500 Jim explains how his personal philosophy led to founding NationBuilder, citing Pew Research on leadership deficits in community groups. Ben closes the episode by echoing a shared management mantra about making oneself uncomfortable.

Statements from this episode (3)

Assertion Not checkable as stated
IBM killed a 1982 OS deal to protect its Microsoft relationship
“They killed the deal because of IBM didn't want to mess up the relationship with this new guy, Bill Gates or his company, Microsoft.”
Jim Gilliam Jan 2, 2019 ▶ 4:14
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Blog readers pressured UCLA into granting Jim Gilliam a lung transplant
“Some of the folks who as were like reading my blog and sort of following what was going on one of them sent an email to UCLA and was like, what's going on? This is crazy. Like you're only doing easy surgeries. No wonder your statistics are so great. It's not o…”
Jim Gilliam Jan 2, 2019 ▶ 14:44
Assertion Supported
Gilliam: Pew study shows 54% leave groups over poor leadership
“There's a there's a study done a few years ago by Pew, and they went and they identified 27 different types of groups. Everything from, like, political parties and unions to, like, fantasy sports leagues. And they went and they asked them a bunch of different …”
Jim Gilliam Jan 2, 2019 ▶ 20:48
Made with StarZero

Turn any episode into a week of clips.

This entire site, over 1,000 episodes transcribed, diarized, checked and made playable, runs on the StarZero media pipeline. Drop in your own episode and the podcast clipper finds the moments worth sharing, cuts them, captions them, and reframes them for every feed.