Jan 2, 2019 · 21m · a16z

a16z Podcast | Tech Policy and the Courts

Karen Dunn · 7m spoken Erin Murphy · 6m spoken Ted Ullyot · 5m spoken Sonal Chokshi · 1m spoken
0:00 / 0:00
▶ Watch on YouTube →

gold bands on the timeline = statements, start to end. Hover to read, click to jump. CC turns on captions

Recorded live at the a16z Tech Policy Summit, this panel discussion explores how federal courts, the Supreme Court, and tech companies themselves are shaping modern technology policy amidst outdated legislative frameworks.

How this conversation actually went

Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. The host holds 6.2% of the talking time here. How this is scored →

The host as informed peer 5.0 Guest teaching 5.0 Guest disagreement 1.3 The host pushing back 3.3
05100:0010:0020:001:41–9:31 · The host as informed peer 5/10 The Supreme Court and Fourth Amendment Privacy Host Ted Ullyot demonstrates legal knowledge by citing Chief Justice Roberts in the Riley case and framing how Justice Gorsuch's background might influence Fourth Amendment jurisprudence. The guests provide detailed legal analysis on Scalia, Alito, and Sotomayor's Fourth Amendment frameworks, educating the audience while maintaining a highly collaborative tone.9:31–17:18 · The host as informed peer 6/10 Tech Companies as Political Advocates and Amicus Briefs Ullyot draws on his past General Counsel experience and pushes back on Karen Dunn's 'fourth branch of government' framing by highlighting consumer backlash and political risks. Dunn and Erin Murphy push back on Ullyot's leading question regarding amicus brief efficacy, noting their direct professional experience writing them.17:18–20:52 · The host as informed peer 4/10 Encryption, Digital Evidence, and Legal Frameworks Dunn shares insider perspective from her work on the Apple encryption dispute and details the Alexa murder case. Ullyot interjects with supportive legal context regarding outdated statutory frameworks like the All Writs Act.1:41–9:31 · Guest teaching 5/10 The Supreme Court and Fourth Amendment Privacy Host Ted Ullyot demonstrates legal knowledge by citing Chief Justice Roberts in the Riley case and framing how Justice Gorsuch's background might influence Fourth Amendment jurisprudence. The guests provide detailed legal analysis on Scalia, Alito, and Sotomayor's Fourth Amendment frameworks, educating the audience while maintaining a highly collaborative tone.9:31–17:18 · Guest teaching 5/10 Tech Companies as Political Advocates and Amicus Briefs Ullyot draws on his past General Counsel experience and pushes back on Karen Dunn's 'fourth branch of government' framing by highlighting consumer backlash and political risks. Dunn and Erin Murphy push back on Ullyot's leading question regarding amicus brief efficacy, noting their direct professional experience writing them.17:18–20:52 · Guest teaching 5/10 Encryption, Digital Evidence, and Legal Frameworks Dunn shares insider perspective from her work on the Apple encryption dispute and details the Alexa murder case. Ullyot interjects with supportive legal context regarding outdated statutory frameworks like the All Writs Act.1:41–9:31 · Guest disagreement 1/10 The Supreme Court and Fourth Amendment Privacy Host Ted Ullyot demonstrates legal knowledge by citing Chief Justice Roberts in the Riley case and framing how Justice Gorsuch's background might influence Fourth Amendment jurisprudence. The guests provide detailed legal analysis on Scalia, Alito, and Sotomayor's Fourth Amendment frameworks, educating the audience while maintaining a highly collaborative tone.9:31–17:18 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Tech Companies as Political Advocates and Amicus Briefs Ullyot draws on his past General Counsel experience and pushes back on Karen Dunn's 'fourth branch of government' framing by highlighting consumer backlash and political risks. Dunn and Erin Murphy push back on Ullyot's leading question regarding amicus brief efficacy, noting their direct professional experience writing them.17:18–20:52 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Encryption, Digital Evidence, and Legal Frameworks Dunn shares insider perspective from her work on the Apple encryption dispute and details the Alexa murder case. Ullyot interjects with supportive legal context regarding outdated statutory frameworks like the All Writs Act.1:41–9:31 · The host pushing back 3/10 The Supreme Court and Fourth Amendment Privacy Host Ted Ullyot demonstrates legal knowledge by citing Chief Justice Roberts in the Riley case and framing how Justice Gorsuch's background might influence Fourth Amendment jurisprudence. The guests provide detailed legal analysis on Scalia, Alito, and Sotomayor's Fourth Amendment frameworks, educating the audience while maintaining a highly collaborative tone.9:31–17:18 · The host pushing back 5/10 Tech Companies as Political Advocates and Amicus Briefs Ullyot draws on his past General Counsel experience and pushes back on Karen Dunn's 'fourth branch of government' framing by highlighting consumer backlash and political risks. Dunn and Erin Murphy push back on Ullyot's leading question regarding amicus brief efficacy, noting their direct professional experience writing them.17:18–20:52 · The host pushing back 2/10 Encryption, Digital Evidence, and Legal Frameworks Dunn shares insider perspective from her work on the Apple encryption dispute and details the Alexa murder case. Ullyot interjects with supportive legal context regarding outdated statutory frameworks like the All Writs Act.

speaking balance: gold is the host, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)

0:00 · the host 49.9% · guest 50.1%0:00 · the host 49.9% · guest 50.1%3:00 · the host 0% · guest 100%3:00 · the host 0% · guest 100%6:00 · the host 0% · guest 100%6:00 · the host 0% · guest 100%9:00 · the host 0% · guest 100%9:00 · the host 0% · guest 100%12:00 · the host 0% · guest 100%12:00 · the host 0% · guest 100%15:00 · the host 0% · guest 100%15:00 · the host 0% · guest 100%18:00 · the host 0% · guest 100%18:00 · the host 0% · guest 100%21:00 · the host 0% · guest 100%21:00 · the host 0% · guest 100%
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 15:14 Guest refutes host's skeptical framing

Karen Dunn playfully interrupts and refutes Ted Ullyot's leading question that implied amicus briefs rarely have meaningful impact on judicial decisions.

Hardest push from the host ▶ 12:51 Host pushes back on corporate advocacy optimism

Ted Ullyot directly challenges Karen Dunn's optimistic view of tech company advocacy by raising the risk of alienating conservative consumer bases.

Biggest teaching moment ▶ 5:23 Guest details Fourth Amendment paradigm shift

Karen Dunn educates on how the Supreme Court moved away from physical trespass frameworks in cases like Riley and Jones to address modern digital data.

The host holds their own ▶ 7:50 Host cites Chief Justice precedent and generational doctrine

Ted Ullyot demonstrates his own legal acumen by quoting Chief Justice Roberts' filing cabinet analogy in Riley and connecting it to Gorsuch's generational perspective.

the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
ChapterTopicThe host as informed peerGuest teachingGuest disagreementThe host pushing backWhy
The Supreme Court and Fourth Amendment Privacy 5513 Host Ted Ullyot demonstrates legal knowledge by citing Chief Justice Roberts in the Riley case and framing how Justice Gorsuch's background might influence Fourth Amendment jurisprudence. The guests provide detailed legal analysis on Scalia, Alito, and Sotomayor's Fourth Amendment frameworks, educating the audience while maintaining a highly collaborative tone.
Tech Companies as Political Advocates and Amicus Briefs 6525 Ullyot draws on his past General Counsel experience and pushes back on Karen Dunn's 'fourth branch of government' framing by highlighting consumer backlash and political risks. Dunn and Erin Murphy push back on Ullyot's leading question regarding amicus brief efficacy, noting their direct professional experience writing them.
Encryption, Digital Evidence, and Legal Frameworks 4512 Dunn shares insider perspective from her work on the Apple encryption dispute and details the Alexa murder case. Ullyot interjects with supportive legal context regarding outdated statutory frameworks like the All Writs Act.

Statements from this episode (6)

Assertion Not checkable as stated
Younger Supreme Court justices drive updates to tech legal doctrines
“When you look at some of those decisions where the court and certain justices seem to be reconsidering these settled doctrines, it's not exclusively the younger members, but it's predominantly the younger members.”
Ted Ullyot Jan 2, 2019 ▶ 7:50
Opinion
Tech companies have effectively become a fourth branch of government
“I really think the fourth branch of government at this point are tech companies, and I think that they have the resources to move fast enough. They have the public reach.”
Karen Dunn Jan 2, 2019 ▶ 11:20
Opinion
Routine political amicus briefs by tech firms diminish their court impact
“I think it diminishes the importance of the briefs to the court because it starts to become more just like how, and you have plenty of the, plenty of groups like that on both sides of the dialogue in cases that you know are going to show up, and they're going …”
Erin Murphy Jan 2, 2019 ▶ 14:38
Prediction Not checkable as stated
A focused legal battle over device encryption is inevitable
“This is coming. There's no way to avoid it. But I find it really hard to believe it's not coming in a way that's a very focused legal issue, like the FBI San Bernardino case, or like the, you know, Alexa murder case, and that's going to happen.”
Karen Dunn Jan 2, 2019 ▶ 19:23
Prediction Not checkable as stated
Supreme Court encryption rulings will explicitly urge Congress to update laws
“I suspect, however the court ends up dealing with it, there will be a lot of language in someone's opinion saying, Congress, please fix all this, because they, and you saw that in a few of these recent cases of theirs, where they're like, look, we shouldn't be…”
Erin Murphy Jan 2, 2019 ▶ 19:48
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Tech encryption legislation confounds traditional political party lines
“It's an issue that is, it's one of those that actually that we talked about the outset of one that's, it's not bipartisan, but it confounds partisan lines. You have Democrats on both sides, Republicans on both sides of that issue, and it's not clear where that…”
Ted Ullyot Jan 2, 2019 ▶ 20:37
Made with StarZero

Turn any episode into a week of clips.

This entire site, over 1,000 episodes transcribed, diarized, checked and made playable, runs on the StarZero media pipeline. Drop in your own episode and the podcast clipper finds the moments worth sharing, cuts them, captions them, and reframes them for every feed.