Jan 2, 2019 · 33m · a16z
a16z Podcast | New Upstarts in an Old Industry
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gold bands on the timeline = statements, start to end. Hover to read, click to jump. CC turns on captions
In this episode of the a16z podcast, Creative Artists Agency (CAA) co-founder Michael Ovitz and Andreessen Horowitz (a16z) co-founder Ben Horowitz discuss how CAA's innovative organizational model, packaging strategies, and radical company culture served as a foundational blueprint for modern venture capital.
How this conversation actually went
Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. How this is scored →
The host as informed peer 2.9 Guest teaching 3.9 Guest disagreement 0.9 The host pushing back 0.9
speaking balance: gold is the host, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 11:32 Ovitz reframes Ben's assertion about industry anger
When Ben claims studios were mad at CAA for dramatically increasing talent pay, Ovitz rejects the simplified framing of people being mad and defends their competitive posture.
Hardest push from the host ▶ 4:47 Hanne challenges Ben's sweeping generalizationWhen Ben asserts that everything tried from CAA worked at Andreessen Horowitz, Hanne immediately interrupts with a sharp 'Everything?' to test his claim.
Biggest teaching moment ▶ 18:16 Ben explains matching culture to company strategyBen provides a clear framework explaining why corporate culture cannot be blindly copied, contrasting Amazon's frugality with Apple's premium design focus.
The host holds their own ▶ 15:50 Hanne shares editorial insight on tough decision-makingHanne demonstrates professional expertise by citing a lesson from her editorial publishing career that doing a job right means making decisions that make people dislike you.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
| Chapter | Topic | The host as informed peer | Guest teaching | Guest disagreement | The host pushing back | Why |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Connecting CAA and Andreessen Horowitz | 1 | 2 | 0 | 0 | Hanne introduces the guests and framing warmly, while Ben and Ovitz share historical anecdotes about meeting in 1999 and CAA's non-technological disruption. | |
| Redefining Talent Representation and Industry Barriers | 3 | 3 | 0 | 0 | Hanne synthesizes CAA's strategy as returning to traditional service, which Ovitz validates before explaining 1970s media distribution gatekeepers. | |
| Adapting Hollywood Agency Models to Venture Capital | 2 | 4 | 0 | 2 | Ben details how CAA organizational tactics were adapted at a16z, while Hanne lightly challenges his sweeping claim that everything worked. | |
| Differentiating Through Culture and Truthfulness | 3 | 3 | 1 | 2 | Hanne guides the topic toward business model differentiation and presses Ovitz to give concrete examples of typical agency untruths. | |
| Packaging Deals and Shifting Power to Talent | 2 | 4 | 3 | 1 | Ben brings up controversy surrounding Ovitz's talent leverage shifts, prompting Ovitz to reframe the premise and justify a win-at-all-costs mindset. | |
| Case Study: Packaging and Selling 'Jurassic Park' | 4 | 4 | 1 | 1 | Ovitz details the Jurassic Park packaging case study, and Hanne draws on her editorial publishing background to validate Ovitz's tough stance. | |
| Culture as a Dynamic and Evolving Organism | 3 | 5 | 0 | 0 | Hanne prompts the guests on managing dynamic culture, leading Ovitz and Ben to discuss executive presence and aligning culture with strategy. | |
| Balancing Professional Intensity with Personal Life | 4 | 5 | 1 | 0 | Hanne demonstrates familiarity with Ovitz's book by raising his self-critique on agenting his children, followed by a discussion on streaming's impact on movie stars. | |
| The Art, Architecture, and Mindset of Negotiation | 4 | 5 | 2 | 2 | Hanne asks about general negotiation rules and value agreement, prompting Ovitz to reframe negotiation as custom architecture rather than a set recipe. |
Statements from this episode (20)
Horowitz: CAA became the world's top talent agency within 15 years
“The fact that he was able to create, by far, the most successful talent agency in the world, 15 years after starting, 75 years after vaudeville, is an impossible business story.”
Horowitz: a16z adopted CAA's organizational design and culture for venture capital
“It was one of organizational design culture and things that turned out we'd use in venture capital.”
Ovitz: Under 25 companies controlled global media when CAA was founded
“Anything that you would read or see or hear was controlled by under 25 companies around the world. You had four television networks in the United States. You had seven motion picture studios that had all the distribution, and without that, you couldn't get you…”
Horowitz: VC firm networks must be institutionally owned, not partner-isolated
“A firm shouldn't be just a group of independent people who all had their own isolated networks. The network should be kind of owned and run by the entity itself.”
Horowitz: a16z was the first VC firm to formally pitch entrepreneurs
“I think we're for sure the first and maybe still the only venture capital firm that has a pitch to entrepreneurs that's, you know, formal and professional and involves lots of people.”
Horowitz: a16z calls all employees partners, a practice borrowed from CAA
“Everybody here we refer to as partner, that was taken from CAA. We got a lot of criticism of that early, but it worked well because we're in the services industry, and look, if you're representing the firm, you are a partner.”
Ovitz: CAA could not have succeeded using a less aggressive approach
“Someone asked me the other day, do you think you could have done it differently in the day? And I don't think that we could have because we were in a cutthroat business to start with.”
Ovitz: Golden Age Hollywood moguls were far more ruthless than CAA
“If you go back to the moguls of the thirties, forties, and fifties, the mayors, the Thalbergs, the Harry Cones, the Jack Warners of Warner Brothers, William Fox, you know, founded Fox Studios. These guys were tough as nails. They took no prisoners. They made u…”
Ovitz: Steven Spielberg committed to direct Jurassic Park within 12 hours
“We give it to Steven Spielberg. He calls The next morning at six a.m. And says, I'm doing this after reading it. That's unheard of for a director of that stature to commit in 12 hours to it.”
Horowitz: Steve Jobs was fired from Apple for making products too expensive
“Steve Jobs got fired because he made the product too expensive.”
Horowitz: Jeff Bezos will never build a $5 billion corporate campus
“Jeff Bezos will never build a five billion dollar campus because he doesn't care about what the doorknob looks like.”
Horowitz: Bringing a hard-nosed CEO mindset home is detrimental to parenting
“That is the one thing that is so dangerous when you're a CEO. You have to be in this mindset that you're making decisions. You're hard-nosed. You have high expectations of everybody. Your standard has to be very high, or it'll slip for everyone. You take that …”
Ovitz: I sometimes failed to downshift and treated my kids like clients
“Sometimes I go home and I didn't downshift, and I'm talking to my kids like they're clients. Believe me, regrettable, but unfortunately, factually accurate.”
Ovitz: Agenting is manipulating and forcing your will on someone else
“Agenting is, you know, it's manipulating, it's pushing, it's maneuvering, it's Trying to force your will on someone, that's agenting and it's a tough word and it's a tough mechanism.”
Ovitz: Building a traditional movie star is no longer possible today
“The idea of building a movie star now is not possible.”
Horowitz: Building iconic music artists through sequential albums is increasingly rare
“Music is following a similar curve where, yeah, it's much harder to build a great artist than it used to be, you know, with a series of Albums that everybody knows, that's becoming a more rare thing.”
Ovitz: Streaming capital and direct distribution make this a golden age
“It's a great time to be a creative person, because we went from a dearth of money to more money than anyone needs, and a new form of distribution.”
Horowitz: Relying on negotiation formulas prevents active listening and kills deals
“But as soon as you get into a formula or a set of principles or something you can just run, then you're not listening. And that's death in a deal.”