Dec 20, 2022 · 1h 19m · a16z
Pay Without Borders with Alex Bouaziz (Deel), Darren Murph (GitLab), and Sondre Rasch (Safetywing)
Steph Smith · 22m spoken Darren Murph · 19m spoken Alex Bouaziz · 17m spoken Sondre Rasch · 14m spoken Disclaimer Reader · 17s spoken
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gold bands on the timeline = statements, start to end. Hover to read, click to jump. CC turns on captions
In this episode of The a16z Podcast, host Steph Smith and industry leaders Darren Murph (GitLab), Alex Bouaziz (Deel), and Sondre Rasch (SafetyWing) discuss the shift to distributed work, exploring asynchronous communication, global talent acquisition, compensation philosophies, and the future infrastructure needed for borderless organizations.
How this conversation actually went
Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. The host holds 30.7% of the talking time here. How this is scored →
The host as informed peer 3.6 Guest teaching 2.5 Guest disagreement 1.6 The host pushing back 1.1
speaking balance: gold is the host, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 14:21 Alex challenges async work limits
Alex directly challenges Darren's pure asynchronous work model by daring him to apply it to complex domains like global payroll, compliance, and visa processing.
Hardest push from the host ▶ 49:44 Steph challenges compensation calculator privacy changeSteph directly presses Darren on why GitLab pulled back public access to its famous compensation calculator and placed it behind an employee firewall.
Biggest teaching moment ▶ 45:55 Sondre reframes global labor market economicsSondre educates the panel on how hiring international knowledge workers shifts talent out of local cost-of-living wage pools into a single global labor market.
The host holds their own ▶ 49:44 Steph demonstrates deep knowledge of GitLab comp policySteph demonstrates detailed knowledge of GitLab's compensation calculator mechanics and directly queries the strategic reasons for restricting its public availability.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
| Chapter | Topic | The host as informed peer | Guest teaching | Guest disagreement | The host pushing back | Why |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Legal Disclaimer and Podcast Title Sequence | 3 | 1 | 1 | 0 | Steph opens with historical framing of office evolution and prompts the guests on whether the office is dead. Guests politely outline how office mentality is shifting toward results and global talent acquisition without conflict. | |
| Asynchronous vs. Synchronous Work Practices | 3 | 3 | 4 | 1 | Darren explains GitLab's asynchronous meeting policies, but Alex directly challenges the limits of pure async work for complex areas like payroll and compliance. Sondre also pushes back slightly, noting that full async can slow project coordination down. | |
| Building and Operationalizing Remote Company Culture | 4 | 2 | 1 | 1 | The group collaboratively discusses operationalizing culture remotely. Steph contributes examples like Hotjar flight stipends and digital gaming, while guests share internal practices like short toes and automated pairing tools. | |
| Attracting and Vetting Top Talent Globally | 3 | 2 | 1 | 1 | Steph asks if attracting remote talent has become harder as remote options expanded post-COVID. Darren explains how the bar has risen for companies to demonstrate mature remote infrastructure rather than just offering flexibility. | |
| Evolution of Global Benefits and Employer of Record (EOR) Models | 3 | 3 | 1 | 1 | Steph frames the shift from Big Tech office perks to global benefit infrastructure. Alex and Sondre explain how Employer of Record models and global health coverage help bridge international compliance barriers. | |
| Compensation Strategies: Location-Based vs. Global Flat Pay | 5 | 4 | 3 | 3 | Alex advocates local market-rate compensation while Sondre defends global flat pay rates based on global labor market equilibrium. Steph directly probes Darren on why GitLab moved its public compensation calculator behind an internal firewall. | |
| Global Hiring Trends, Vetting, and Government Adaptation | 4 | 3 | 1 | 1 | Alex highlights engineering talent hubs like Brazil and India while detailing government adaptations such as UAE visa partnerships. Steph contributes a personal anecdote regarding enterprise cross-border work restrictions. | |
| Missing Infrastructure and Future Opportunities in Remote Work | 4 | 2 | 1 | 1 | Guests pitch missing infrastructure opportunities including global credit scoring, life design agencies, and specialized project teams. Steph expertly connects Darren's decision-making frameworks back to clear DRI roles in async meetings. |
Statements from this episode (22)
Smith: Florence's Uffizi Gallery was the predecessor to the modern office
“In fifteen-sixty, we saw the predecessor to the office, which was Florence's Euphysi Gallery.”
Murph: The traditional corporate office mentality and required persona are dead
“I think the office mentality is dead, or at least on its last leg, and the difference there is when you talk about mentality, it's about the lifestyle that you had to live or the persona that you had to carry in order to fit in and enable yourself to have a ca…”
Rasch: Fully remote companies will outcompete non-remote rivals for global talent
“The ability to hire the best in the world that is the kind of economic thing that I think will, you know, ensure that the companies that are remote will outcompete those who aren't, because they will essentially hire the best in the world versus, you know, the…”
Bouaziz: Deel has 1,300 employees across 80 countries with zero offices
“In our case, for example, we've got a 1300 plus people and no offices. We work in 80 plus countries, right?”
Murph: GitLab operates publicly with 1,600 employees across 60 countries
“So for context, for those listening, GitLab has over 1600 people. We're a public company, and we have people in over 60 countries all over the world.”
Murph: Remote management must prioritize knowledge retrieval over knowledge transfer speed
“The core reason that I have found is that most management philosophies Prioritize the speed of knowledge transfer. As in, how fast can person A tap person B on the shoulder and transfer something from one brain to the other? But to do this well, your managemen…”
Murph: GitLab makes all meetings optional and requires agendas for invites
“So at GitLab, all meetings are optional, and we're very intentional about what a synchronous meeting has to have before it can even be accepted on a calendar. All work meetings have to have an agenda, no agenda, no attenda.”
Bouaziz: Early-stage startups should avoid asynchronous work to build faster
“There's different stage at a company when you're very early. I don't think async work is the right way to go. I think you need to build fast, you need to get things done.”
Rasch: SafetyWing employs 180 people across 70 different countries
“We're a 180 people from 70 different countries.”
Murph: A 1,300-person Zoom happy hour wastes 1,300 sunk organizational hours
“If you're going to invite 1300 people to a Zoom happy hour, as a management team, that's 1300 sunk hours. You're never going to get that time back.”
Murph: Offering remote work is no longer enough to attract top talent
“So the bar has continued to rise for organizations which are remote. It's no longer good enough to just be remote. You have to be intentional about investing in teams and leaders and tooling to build the infrastructure To make it an awesome experience.”
Rasch: Most SafetyWing health insurance sign-ups previously had no health insurance
“When we ask people who, you know, sign up for our health insurance, what they had before the most common answer is still nothing.”
Bouaziz: Deel operates over 90 corporate entities globally
“We've got over a 90 plus entities around the world.”
Murph: The term "remote work" will eventually disappear and become just "work"
“Long term the word remote goes away and it's just work.”
Bouaziz: Deel pays employees based on top-of-market local country rates
“Internally, a deal is generally we pay based on country rates. I think we pay usually top of market, but still within the market.”
Rasch: SafetyWing pays all employees a global flat salary regardless of location
“Well, so we have opted for a flat, you know, the argument for it would go something like this, you know, remote has made the world into a global labor market and most people just haven't realized that yet... So we say we chose to kind of like skip to the end o…”
Rasch: Global compensation for top talent will converge on Bay Area rates
“So that might be what will happen, that we will converge on the top talent on, on the Bay Area salary.”
Murph: GitLab placed its compensation calculator behind an internal employee firewall
“It is behind an employee firewall now. So everyone that works at GitLab has access to it. If you're a recruit, you're a candidate you'll have access to it as well.”
Bouaziz: Engineering salaries in Brazil have risen significantly due to remote work
“Brazil, for example, has been an amazing place for talent from an engineering standpoint and salaries have definitely gone up there.”
Bouaziz: Deel partnered with the UAE to process tech visas in days
“Recently we did a pretty large partnership with the UAE as they kind of looked at the market and said, Hey, we want the best town to come and we're going to make it easy for them to come. Right. Where we're now able to process visas in like five, seven days.”