The Exchanges

Q people look at content that does very well and goes like, how, how do I recreate it? How do I do the same? And I think a lot starts with actually, before we get to the content, the platform itself, you were kind of given this open purview. Why did you decide TikTok was the platform that you wanted to spend the time on and that was the opportunity for?

A I think there's, there's two ways to think about it, honestly. I think one, I grew up with TikTok, like that was what I was doing and using and like grow up as in like being in college, like that's just what I was on. And like during the pandemic, I was just on it and this was a native platform to me. So I already kind of knew how it worked and how it functioned and what worked well and what didn't work and what made me laugh. Um, And then I think the real tipping point for me was when TikTok mentioned that they had one billion users, and this was in September of 2021. And I remember so distinctly thinking that if people are on TikTok, they're not on our app. So how do we bring people back to our app? Um, and I'm a firm believer, and I know our CEO said this too, that I don't think like Babbel or Rosetta Stone or other language learning places are our actual competitors. Like our real competitors are like TikTok. And other social media platforms that are like taking the attention away from doing your daily lesson. So how do we use that to our advantage? How do we bring the daily lesson or the push notification to TikTok and bring people back to us?

AI assessment note: “the real tipping point for me was when TikTok mentioned that they had one billion users”

Q So do you simply rip and replace for reels and for, um, TikTok or do you like change format style? Audio font. Is it rip and replace or is it slightly amended?

A Yeah. I would say at this rate of where we are, I would say about 75% is rip and replace. And what the other 25% is us trying to actually think through, like, what would work better on Reels versus TikTok. And like our way to alleviate that is we kind of broke out like who's working on which channels by like generational divides. So we'll have like a little bit of elder millennials doing Instagram while we're doing TikTok. And then we're talking to like our interns to help us with shorts, and it's kind of like how those age gaps and how we consume media actually dictate who's posting on what. So like, I might make something that's super TikTokable and super fun, but when I suggest it to post on reels, I've had an upper millennial be like, that's not gonna hit. Like fix and adjust this, maybe change how this looks. And we've done that, and then it does really well. So they're like small iterations of the same concept.

AI assessment note: “I would say about 75% is rip and replace.”

Q That's so interesting. I think we're at structuring our content planning. How do you structure your content planning?

A It's very loosey goosey. I think so. The way we go about it is we know that social is very much dependent on trends. So we never really plan more than like two weeks out and even two weeks is like a bit of a stretch um and pretty much every monday i go through the week and see like how many pieces of content we're thinking of doing and just monday through friday will assign people like all right lily you're going to be doing two trending videos this week figure it out mel you have this one campaign scheduled is it okay if it goes live on wednesday xyz and then say in the middle of the week all of a sudden taylor swift and travis kelsey are trending Okay, Mel, sorry, we're not posting that. We're posting about this. Tweet about this. And I think the mindset is no one is too precious about what content they're creating. Everyone is just down to do whatever and do whatever will go viral. So people are fine with pushing their stuff back or having to jump in and think of creative copy or just kind of work together to make viral moments happen.

AI assessment note: “we never really plan more than like two weeks out”

Q I think also, like, knowing who you are, does that make sense? Like, it's so easy to just copy your, we both know them, they're a ton of influences, and we can all make hits like them, I'm not being rude, it's kind of easy to do, um, but that's not what Duolingo is about.

A Yeah, and I think that goes back to the North Star. Like, language learning is hard, so we make it fun, and every piece of content will have some mention of that, and like, I know a lot of people are like, well, I didn't see language learning in this Dua Lipa thirst trap, um, and the way that we kind of approach that is the strategy that I love to call candy to the medicine, where essentially the candy is going to be the Dua Lipa thirst trap, but the medicine, you might find it in the comment section. You might find it in the caption of us being like, Doing, mentioning something about our app, mentioning something about language learning in fun and innovative ways. So like, for example, the Dua Lipa Thirst Trap, I remember one of our comments being like, the only stuff you'll find on Duolingo Plus, or like Super Duolingo. And that is like, all right, like we just kind of plugged our premium app, and now people are into it. And it's, that's the medicine to the candy. And I feel like that's a really important way of approaching content today.

AI assessment note: “I think that goes back to the North Star. Like, language learning is hard”

Q Does it matter if the video doesn't, if I can watch a video on TikTok and I'm like, I have no idea that Duolingo is a language learning app. Does that matter? Because the truth is you've built the relationship with me and I'll watch the next one because I like the first one. So does every video need to tie back?

A It doesn't. And that's, that's what we're learning, is that, like, people don't come to social to learn a language, and very few people actually care about our app when they're on social media. And I think, like, if we're lucky, people will be, like, complaining about how they got a C minus in Spanish and how much they hate language learning. Maybe they'll insult our app, or they'll just confuse us with, like, Dua Lipa. Like, that is what people are talking about when it comes to social language learning. Like, They genuinely, very few, some must, but very few people care what Duolingo has to say about the new slang word. Like, it's just not something that they're going to social for. They're going for either a break or for entertainment, so we need to grab them and meet them where they are.

AI assessment note: “It doesn't. And that's, that's what we're learning”

Q people look at content that does very well and goes like, how, how do I recreate it? How do I do the same? And I think a lot starts with actually, before we get to the content, the platform itself, you were kind of given this open purview. Why did you decide TikTok was the platform that you wanted to spend the time on and that was the opportunity for?

A I think there's, there's two ways to think about it, honestly. I think one, I grew up with TikTok, like that was what I was doing and using and like grow up as in like being in college, like that's just what I was on. And like during the pandemic, I was just on it and this was a native platform to me. So I already kind of knew how it worked and how it functioned and what worked well and what didn't work and what made me laugh. Um, And then I think the real tipping point for me was when TikTok mentioned that they had one billion users, and this was in September of 2021. And I remember so distinctly thinking that if people are on TikTok, they're not on our app. So how do we bring people back to our app? Um, and I'm a firm believer, and I know our CEO said this too, that I don't think like Babbel or Rosetta Stone or other language learning places are our actual competitors. Like our real competitors are like TikTok. And other social media platforms that are like taking the attention away from doing your daily lesson. So how do we use that to our advantage? How do we bring the daily lesson or the push notification to TikTok and bring people back to us?

AI assessment note: “real tipping point for me was when TikTok mentioned that they had one billion users”

Q VCs give you much more cop-out answers. My question to you is, you mentioned trending audio there. I'm constantly stuck in this question of, do we copy the trends of what works, this font, this music style, or do we try and innovate and come up with our own creativity concepts and push boundaries in that way? How do you think about copying what works versus doing authentic and different?

A The best way to start Is to steal like an artist. And I say that because a lot of TikTok is like copying each other. Like that is the truth of it. When we first started, these trends were us just copying what we see and obviously giving credit where it's due, but that is the nature of the platform. That's how these like voices, like voice audios go viral. It's me saying it in one set in one scenario, somebody else saying it in another scenario. And I think this idea of stealing like an artist is okay and appreciated on TikTok where it's like your, this is your spin on it. Um, and I think it's a great way to start, honestly. Like, I feel like if you're looking for trending audio, like look, like click on the audio and just see what people are doing and see where you can bring your person into that. Um, however, I think that'll only get you so far after a certain point, once you've reached your virality and people kind of get the, okay, they understand TikTok and how it works. They're looking for more storylines and more things that you can bring. So I always say our TikTok is like a sitcom. Everything we put out there is an episode. Some are amazing and go super viral. Some are just there to build the storylines, but it's something that can live and function as short form video content, even if it was to leave TikTok. So some of the storylines, Duo and like Legal Steve, our gene…

AI assessment note: “The best way to start Is to steal like an artist.”

Q How do you come up with the ideas? You mentioned the crushing on Dua Lipa there. I have to admit, I would be joining that. Um, you mentioned there, the, the, you know, Steve, the legal, uh, officer, and the relationship there. Like, How, do you sit in a room with a creative team and a whiteboard? What does that process look like?

A I think the truth of it is it started with there was only one full-time employee for social, and that was me. And these were genuinely just funny tropes that I thought existed in our office. I think Duo is a very quirky place in general. Um, people have confused Duo with Dua Lipa for ages, and that's been on our community, like, within Twitter. Um, and I always say, for example, for that, like, the comment section is your social brief. Like, People will say stuff, like, lean into that. Like, if they're telling you they want to see X, Y, Z, give them X, Y, Z, and it can be that simple, and that's where Dua Lipa came from. Um, Steve has, it's always been a joke, because Steve was also, for a very long time, the only lone general counsel at Duolingo, and people used to just call him Legal Steve, and like, Legal Steve, we'd have to check in with him, and it just became a funny, natural thing that a menace like Duo would not jive with a lawyer.

AI assessment note: “the comment section is your social brief”

Q What does that ideation process look like now? It was just you when you saw funding in the office. Is it the same now?

A It's definitely more, I would say buttoned up and how you'd expect it to be. We now have a head of social. Um, so I report to her and we have A social coordinator and another social media manager. So now there's about what that's four of us. Um, and we're hiring like an intern and another content creator. So the team has now definitely expanded and it's honestly like a slack channel of dumping. Like this is trending. This is my audio. This is trending. This is my, like, sorry, this is trending. And this is my thought. This is what I think we should caption. This is what I think we should do. And I think the biggest thing about the ideation process for us is that it's not sitting in a room and brainstorming. It's, I saw this trending audio. I took the suit. I filmed this. What are your thoughts? And it's just going for it and creating the content. And it's possible the content won't see the light of day, but actually having that visual thing and kind of people working in silos so we can hit their niches and the fandoms they're part of, and then come together to see how we hit those different parts of the internet is how we actually brainstorm and create.

AI assessment note: “the biggest thing about the ideation process for us is that it's not sitting”

Q So do you simply rip and replace for reels and for, um, TikTok or do you like change format style? Audio font. Is it rip and replace or is it slightly amended?

A Yeah. I would say at this rate of where we are, I would say about 75% is rip and replace. And what the other 25% is us trying to actually think through, like, what would work better on Reels versus TikTok. And like our way to alleviate that is we kind of broke out like who's working on which channels by like generational divides. So we'll have like a little bit of elder millennials doing Instagram while we're doing TikTok. And then we're talking to like our interns to help us with shorts, and it's kind of like how those age gaps and how we consume media actually dictate who's posting on what. So like, I might make something that's super TikTokable and super fun, but when I suggest it to post on reels, I've had an upper millennial be like, that's not gonna hit. Like fix and adjust this, maybe change how this looks. And we've done that, and then it does really well. So they're like small iterations of the same concept.

AI assessment note: “I would say about 75% is rip and replace.”

Q That's so interesting. I think we're at structuring our content planning. How do you structure your content planning?

A It's very loosey goosey. I think so. The way we go about it is we know that social is very much dependent on trends. So we never really plan more than like two weeks out and even two weeks is like a bit of a stretch um and pretty much every monday i go through the week and see like how many pieces of content we're thinking of doing and just monday through friday will assign people like all right lily you're going to be doing two trending videos this week figure it out mel you have this one campaign scheduled is it okay if it goes live on wednesday xyz and then say in the middle of the week all of a sudden taylor swift and travis kelsey are trending Okay, Mel, sorry, we're not posting that. We're posting about this. Tweet about this. And I think the mindset is no one is too precious about what content they're creating. Everyone is just down to do whatever and do whatever will go viral. So people are fine with pushing their stuff back or having to jump in and think of creative copy or just kind of work together to make viral moments happen.

AI assessment note: “every monday i go through the week and see like how many pieces of content”

Q I totally agree. I think it's so important to see that in person. Cash, do you feel the pressure now with new, uh, releases in terms of content releases? Because you have seven plus million followers. It's not like, well, 200,300, it's still a lot, but it's a lot less. Do you feel pressure to post?

A I would say I don't feel pressure from our community. Cause I feel like they kind of get it. They understand what social media people go through and just like whatever you can put out there is great. I would say I do feel pressure from our marketing team in general. I think we've set this high standard and like candidly, like coming in as junior talent. And this is my first job out of college. Like I've been able to like succeed on a lot of different parts of like going viral and doing all this content stuff. And like, Doing this with you, like even talking here with you today, but like, I'm still catching up with like how to function in a workplace, how to be a role manager. What does it mean to work a nine to five? And I think dealing with that is a little bit of like where the cognitive dissonance comes in, where I've started on such a high note that like, I feel this pressure to always perform that way and not realizing that most people actually build up to it and it's an ebb and flow experience. So I would say I'm more dealing with like that internal thing of like, you know what, it's okay if a video doesn't It doesn't go viral, and it's okay if we have to go back to the drawing board.

AI assessment note: “I would say I do feel pressure from our marketing team in general.”

Q Can I ask what took it to the next level? Because there is bluntly a huge amount of content, which is happy Earth Day, happy Sunday, happy Mother Day, whatever it is. When did you go, huh? I can be a little bit different here.

A I think it was the night of day of like being in An office for the first time. Like, I always say the reason why our TikTok was so successful is because I didn't really know all that much about advertising, if I'm being honest. Like, I was a new grad. I kind of had fresh eyes on it, and I remember walking into the office, and this is like, after the pan, well, after a pandemic, I don't know, but when the office opened for the first time, and things were coming back to normal, and I walk into the office, and there was this Big green owl, which is the suit we all know and love today, just sitting in the corner. And I was like, that is so freaking weird. Like, why is it just there? No one's reacting, whatever. And at the time it was just meant for like people team stuff where they go to recruiting events and then the owl pops up. And I was like, what if I just like, and I love to talk on my own, like I was already consuming it. And I was like, what if I just make like a funny piece of content off of this? And it was nothing crazy, risky. It was nothing like, I would say to the extent of what you may see do as TikTok do today, but it was just different. It was unexpected and no brand was doing it yet. Um, and I think that was kind of our insight. And it was like these small human moments that I think has made our TikTok kind of blow up.

AI assessment note: “these small human moments that I think has made our TikTok kind of blow up.”

Q VCs give you much more cop-out answers. My question to you is, you mentioned trending audio there. I'm constantly stuck in this question of, do we copy the trends of what works, this font, this music style, or do we try and innovate and come up with our own creativity concepts and push boundaries in that way? How do you think about copying what works versus doing authentic and different?

A The best way to start Is to steal like an artist. And I say that because a lot of TikTok is like copying each other. Like that is the truth of it. When we first started, these trends were us just copying what we see and obviously giving credit where it's due, but that is the nature of the platform. That's how these like voices, like voice audios go viral. It's me saying it in one set in one scenario, somebody else saying it in another scenario. And I think this idea of stealing like an artist is okay and appreciated on TikTok where it's like your, this is your spin on it. Um, and I think it's a great way to start, honestly. Like, I feel like if you're looking for trending audio, like look, like click on the audio and just see what people are doing and see where you can bring your person into that. Um, however, I think that'll only get you so far after a certain point, once you've reached your virality and people kind of get the, okay, they understand TikTok and how it works. They're looking for more storylines and more things that you can bring. So I always say our TikTok is like a sitcom. Everything we put out there is an episode. Some are amazing and go super viral. Some are just there to build the storylines, but it's something that can live and function as short form video content, even if it was to leave TikTok. So some of the storylines, Duo and like Legal Steve, our gene…

AI assessment note: “The best way to start Is to steal like an artist.”

Q What does that ideation process look like now? It was just you when you saw funding in the office. Is it the same now?

A It's definitely more, I would say buttoned up and how you'd expect it to be. We now have a head of social. Um, so I report to her and we have A social coordinator and another social media manager. So now there's about what that's four of us. Um, and we're hiring like an intern and another content creator. So the team has now definitely expanded and it's honestly like a slack channel of dumping. Like this is trending. This is my audio. This is trending. This is my, like, sorry, this is trending. And this is my thought. This is what I think we should caption. This is what I think we should do. And I think the biggest thing about the ideation process for us is that it's not sitting in a room and brainstorming. It's, I saw this trending audio. I took the suit. I filmed this. What are your thoughts? And it's just going for it and creating the content. And it's possible the content won't see the light of day, but actually having that visual thing and kind of people working in silos so we can hit their niches and the fandoms they're part of, and then come together to see how we hit those different parts of the internet is how we actually brainstorm and create.

AI assessment note: “the biggest thing about the ideation process for us is that it's not sitting in a room”

Q What would you advise them, in terms of like, whether agency, whether or not agency, how to make it work, thoughts?

A I would say the best content is only going to be created by people who have, who are champions of your brand and who have a 110% attention to what you're doing and care about what you're doing. We have hired agencies. I'll be honest. When we first launched our TikTok, we hired an agency to work with us. Um, before I was kind of in the weeds, like I was just kind of like observing or whatever, and the content didn't hit. And it wasn't until an internal team like me took over that it started to go more viral. And I think the truth about it, especially for Duolingo is like, these people are not mission driven. Like they, like they don't have that same, that same drive that all of us did for why we're working at Duolingo. They may be in their own mission, but they're not a Duolingo's mission because they're spread out across different teams, across different things. Um, and there's a certain Connection that someone who works at a brand feels to their brand. Just as someone who works in agency probably feels to their agency, and you can't recreate that very easily. That has to be from someone within an internal. Um, so my advice is pick up your phone, download the app, scroll on it for 10 minutes, pick an audio, and just start filming.

AI assessment note: “the best content is only going to be created by people who”

Q Can I ask what took it to the next level? Because there is bluntly a huge amount of content, which is happy Earth Day, happy Sunday, happy Mother Day, whatever it is. When did you go, huh? I can be a little bit different here.

A I think it was the night of day of like being in An office for the first time. Like, I always say the reason why our TikTok was so successful is because I didn't really know all that much about advertising, if I'm being honest. Like, I was a new grad. I kind of had fresh eyes on it, and I remember walking into the office, and this is like, after the pan, well, after a pandemic, I don't know, but when the office opened for the first time, and things were coming back to normal, and I walk into the office, and there was this Big green owl, which is the suit we all know and love today, just sitting in the corner. And I was like, that is so freaking weird. Like, why is it just there? No one's reacting, whatever. And at the time it was just meant for like people team stuff where they go to recruiting events and then the owl pops up. And I was like, what if I just like, and I love to talk on my own, like I was already consuming it. And I was like, what if I just make like a funny piece of content off of this? And it was nothing crazy, risky. It was nothing like, I would say to the extent of what you may see do as TikTok do today, but it was just different. It was unexpected and no brand was doing it yet. Um, and I think that was kind of our insight. And it was like these small human moments that I think has made our TikTok kind of blow up.

AI assessment note: “I remember walking into the office... and there was this Big green owl”

Q like you said that you have to be a consumer of it because you, you figure out what works. Can I ask to what extent do you think TikTok is an art or a science? We have a TikTok team specifically here, And they think it's a science and they're like, oh, we need this music and this font and this hit rate. Do you agree or is it not?

A I think, ah, this is such a cop out answer, but I think it's a mix of both. And I'm saying that because if you don't have the science and you don't know how the science of the app works, your art is not going to go very far. Um, and so when we're hiring for our teams, for example, like I don't really care about your advertising experience. I don't really care about like what agencies you worked at. I care more about if I give you like a concept, can you find a trending audio? Tell me what to film, bring it together and have a good caption copy and good, like text on video. That's like entertaining. And I think that has been more of the litmus test of like litmus test. If you can like actually create entertaining content and it's a mixture of both, like you cannot create entertaining content if you don't know the trends are, because it might be a little bit too niche for someone to understand. But if you're not a creative writer and you don't know how to make something punchy in five seconds, even if you have a trending audio, it's not going to do well.

AI assessment note: “I think it's a mix of both. And I'm saying that because”

Q I totally agree. I think it's so important to see that in person. Cash, do you feel the pressure now with new, uh, releases in terms of content releases? Because you have seven plus million followers. It's not like, well, 200,300, it's still a lot, but it's a lot less. Do you feel pressure to post?

A I would say I don't feel pressure from our community. Cause I feel like they kind of get it. They understand what social media people go through and just like whatever you can put out there is great. I would say I do feel pressure from our marketing team in general. I think we've set this high standard and like candidly, like coming in as junior talent. And this is my first job out of college. Like I've been able to like succeed on a lot of different parts of like going viral and doing all this content stuff. And like, Doing this with you, like even talking here with you today, but like, I'm still catching up with like how to function in a workplace, how to be a role manager. What does it mean to work a nine to five? And I think dealing with that is a little bit of like where the cognitive dissonance comes in, where I've started on such a high note that like, I feel this pressure to always perform that way and not realizing that most people actually build up to it and it's an ebb and flow experience. So I would say I'm more dealing with like that internal thing of like, you know what, it's okay if a video doesn't It doesn't go viral, and it's okay if we have to go back to the drawing board.

AI assessment note: “I would say I do feel pressure from our marketing team in general.”

Q How important do you think consistency is on TikTok? How often do you post? What are your thoughts around that?

A I think there's a lot of lore that you have to like just keep posting and that's what's going to keep you successful. I don't believe that that it matters. I believe that the quality of content is far more important than the quantity. And a lot of the times I've had to step back because I got burnt out from creating content and what I was trying to push out was just pushing out for the sake of pushing out and it wasn't good. And then when I took two weeks off, nobody cared. Everybody went on about their lives. It was okay. It came back, viral hits, and then people were fine. Like, there was, I mean, like, the, the harsh reality is, is that no one's sitting there missing Duolingo. Like, they're not missing our app as much as I'd love to think they're sitting there missing my TikTok content. Like, they're not. Like, it's, it's five seconds of their day, just as we consume other brand, you know, branded content. And taking that mindset and approach has helped me alleviate burnout, has helped me create great content, and also, like, not take myself so seriously.

AI assessment note: “I don't believe that that it matters. I believe that the quality of content”

Q my question is, we, we also had, um, YouTube, um, shorts. We had Instagram Reels and we had TikTok. Do we need to be on all channels? A lot of people and founders say to me, do I need to be on everything? And I say no. Just be on one and be great at it. Do you agree, or do you think you do need to be everywhere now?

A I feel like I might have a different response to this because of our brand truth. So, so for us, I'm very adamant about having, like, one or two sentences of what you know you're doing, so that just becomes, like, the, like, the North Star for every single piece of content you put out there, because it makes things just easier. Um, so for us, like, The, what we've established with our TikTok is language learning is hard. So we make it fun. So that's everything is going to be judged against that human truth. If, is it showing that we're having fun? Does this seem fun and entertaining? Is this the messaging we want to give across with that truth? And then the other truth that we have is duo is fricking everywhere. And that is what we want it to be where duo will stop at nothing for you to do your lesson. So for us, I want to be on multiple platforms because those are true to my brand. However, I feel like once you know your human truths, and what you know, what your values are, and your strategy is, then you can assess where you want to be, and where you want to show up. But because Duo is everywhere, and we want Duo to be everywhere, reminding you to do your lesson, then I'm going to be on every platform as much as I can to my best ability.

AI assessment note: “So for us, I want to be on multiple platforms because those are true to my brand.”

Q What would you advise them, in terms of like, whether agency, whether or not agency, how to make it work, thoughts?

A I would say the best content is only going to be created by people who have, who are champions of your brand and who have a 110% attention to what you're doing and care about what you're doing. We have hired agencies. I'll be honest. When we first launched our TikTok, we hired an agency to work with us. Um, before I was kind of in the weeds, like I was just kind of like observing or whatever, and the content didn't hit. And it wasn't until an internal team like me took over that it started to go more viral. And I think the truth about it, especially for Duolingo is like, these people are not mission driven. Like they, like they don't have that same, that same drive that all of us did for why we're working at Duolingo. They may be in their own mission, but they're not a Duolingo's mission because they're spread out across different teams, across different things. Um, and there's a certain Connection that someone who works at a brand feels to their brand. Just as someone who works in agency probably feels to their agency, and you can't recreate that very easily. That has to be from someone within an internal. Um, so my advice is pick up your phone, download the app, scroll on it for 10 minutes, pick an audio, and just start filming.

AI assessment note: “the best content is only going to be created by people who are champions”

Q I ask, is it challenging for you internally, if we're honest? Like, when you have great success, and you get seven million followers, and then, I mean this nicely, that, like, people want to interview you, and you get a lot of followers, and then your bosses and bosses are like, hang on a minute, I'm your boss, and they're not asking to interview me. Is that a bit challenging?

A So actually in the process of all of this, um, I started with one boss and switched to another person that was like, actually like meant for social. And my first boss was, I think she was a PR manager at the time. And I still, to this day, I'm so grateful that she was the one that was role managing me when the success started, because not for a second, did she ever be like, hi, like I'm Michaela and this is the work I did. It was always like, nah, she didn't like that was all her. And, and I'm not just saying that because I'm sitting in a Duolingo studio right now, like, the fact that I'm even sitting with you, the fact that I've been interviewed time and time again, the fact that, like, I got to be on Forbes, 30 under 30 for this, it's because they empowered me to be like, this was Zaria's work, this is what she did, like, this is her. And while there are moments, of course, of frustration, I think the frustration more is That we're just changing how things are done and what they're used to. I don't think it's a matter of like jealousy or anger or like what's going on. It's more of just like growing pains of now we were used to be this kind of old, not old school brand, but a brand that kind of did more traditional stuff. And now we're whole mantra as being social first. So yeah, when like a 25 year old comes in and changes that it's not going to be easy all the time. There's …

AI assessment note: “I don't think it's a matter of like jealousy or anger”

Q How important do you think consistency is on TikTok? How often do you post? What are your thoughts around that?

A I think there's a lot of lore that you have to like just keep posting and that's what's going to keep you successful. I don't believe that that it matters. I believe that the quality of content is far more important than the quantity. And a lot of the times I've had to step back because I got burnt out from creating content and what I was trying to push out was just pushing out for the sake of pushing out and it wasn't good. And then when I took two weeks off, nobody cared. Everybody went on about their lives. It was okay. It came back, viral hits, and then people were fine. Like, there was, I mean, like, the, the harsh reality is, is that no one's sitting there missing Duolingo. Like, they're not missing our app as much as I'd love to think they're sitting there missing my TikTok content. Like, they're not. Like, it's, it's five seconds of their day, just as we consume other brand, you know, branded content. And taking that mindset and approach has helped me alleviate burnout, has helped me create great content, and also, like, not take myself so seriously.

AI assessment note: “I don't believe that that it matters. I believe that the quality of content”

Q troublemakers obvious, and what I mean by that is, we all know job interviews, you come and you say you love Shakespeare, and that you play tennis on the weekend, and you hide the fact that you, you know, maybe drink to Tequila and dance to Taylor Swift. Um, you know, which would be great if people actually said, but like, are they obvious when you interview and meet them?

A I would say you can, I feel like I can tell, because I would say our team is a team of troublemakers, and I think it's because I grew up with that, and I feel like it's more of people who don't have traditional backgrounds, and also people who are very upfront, and I, like, I stan people who are like, I am who I am, and I don't give a fuck if you like it or not, and that is the energy I want when I, and I, and I know it sounds unaccommodating and stubborn, And I've been that way, but also to a certain extent, you need that energy to push things forward. And I would also say troublemakers, if you're looking for an easy pool to start of people who are pressing these red buttons, who are testing boundaries is people with intersectional backgrounds. And I'm very adamant about this because I grew up right in a Pakistani household in a very white city in America. And my entire life was figuring out how to balance both these cultures, both these groups, figure out how to please both. And because of that, I'd find myself kind of push against up the wall sometimes, but I also know how to manage that pressure. And I'm always saying that people from intersectional backgrounds, like they go through the most, so they know how to handle the most.

AI assessment note: “I would say you can, I feel like I can tell”

Q No, I, I, I totally get you there. Can I ask, is it frictitious internally ever when you're pushing red buttons and doing posts? Do you ever get other functions being like, you can't do that. We had, we had this campaign lined up for next week. We had this lined up. We didn't plan on releasing that. Does it cause tension between functions?

A Yeah, it does. Um, candidly. And I think, but I think that's natural. And I think tension is required for growth. So I think the way that I approach it is like more of, all right, I know this caused you to like tension. Let's talk about it. Like, let me know about it. Like, I remember, for example, when threads was a thing for like a .2 seconds, we posted a photo of like big bird. I don't remember what we said as the comment, but it was like duo big bird or whatever. And at the time we had a kids app, um, and someone from the team was like, Like, yo, like, it's a kid's app. You can't post, like, I think it was something like us, like, swooning over Big Bird, but they're like, you can't post that, like, they're from blah, blah, blah. Um, and I get these messages all the time. We have, like, I remember we've thought, we've talked about making, like, a social media, like, thing where people can anonymously say their issues with what we're doing. Um, but I think that's okay. I think those moments of discussion and tension are important for people to understand social, for understand what does well. And You have to have thick skin. I know I've grown with thick skin, but it's important, and I'm okay with it.

AI assessment note: “Yeah, it does. Um, candidly. And I think, but I think that's natural.”

Q How do you come up with the ideas? You mentioned the crushing on Dua Lipa there. I have to admit, I would be joining that. Um, you mentioned there, the, the, you know, Steve, the legal, uh, officer, and the relationship there. Like, How, do you sit in a room with a creative team and a whiteboard? What does that process look like?

A I think the truth of it is it started with there was only one full-time employee for social, and that was me. And these were genuinely just funny tropes that I thought existed in our office. I think Duo is a very quirky place in general. Um, people have confused Duo with Dua Lipa for ages, and that's been on our community, like, within Twitter. Um, and I always say, for example, for that, like, the comment section is your social brief. Like, People will say stuff, like, lean into that. Like, if they're telling you they want to see X, Y, Z, give them X, Y, Z, and it can be that simple, and that's where Dua Lipa came from. Um, Steve has, it's always been a joke, because Steve was also, for a very long time, the only lone general counsel at Duolingo, and people used to just call him Legal Steve, and like, Legal Steve, we'd have to check in with him, and it just became a funny, natural thing that a menace like Duo would not jive with a lawyer.

AI assessment note: “the comment section is your social brief. Like, People will say stuff, like, lean into that.”

Q my question is, we, we also had, um, YouTube, um, shorts. We had Instagram Reels and we had TikTok. Do we need to be on all channels? A lot of people and founders say to me, do I need to be on everything? And I say no. Just be on one and be great at it. Do you agree, or do you think you do need to be everywhere now?

A I feel like I might have a different response to this because of our brand truth. So, so for us, I'm very adamant about having, like, one or two sentences of what you know you're doing, so that just becomes, like, the, like, the North Star for every single piece of content you put out there, because it makes things just easier. Um, so for us, like, The, what we've established with our TikTok is language learning is hard. So we make it fun. So that's everything is going to be judged against that human truth. If, is it showing that we're having fun? Does this seem fun and entertaining? Is this the messaging we want to give across with that truth? And then the other truth that we have is duo is fricking everywhere. And that is what we want it to be where duo will stop at nothing for you to do your lesson. So for us, I want to be on multiple platforms because those are true to my brand. However, I feel like once you know your human truths, and what you know, what your values are, and your strategy is, then you can assess where you want to be, and where you want to show up. But because Duo is everywhere, and we want Duo to be everywhere, reminding you to do your lesson, then I'm going to be on every platform as much as I can to my best ability.

AI assessment note: “I'm going to be on every platform as much as I can”

Q How would you advise me on turning Happy Earth Day into a rock star, creative, imaginative person?

A I would say you have to hire troublemakers. Um, and I say that because I have been suspended before. I have been on the hot seat many times while in university. I remember in my interview at Duolingo when they asked if there are any questions you have, I was like, yeah, if you could do a presentation for 10 minutes on anything that's not about work, no notes, what would it be and why? And like questions that are just like, I don't know, like things that are just unexpected. I've been rejected from big brands for jobs and I was applying out of college because I, my resume, I can send it to you after this, but it's definitely not a traditional resume. It's very different. It's very, it's, it's unhinged. And my whole, my whole like life mantra was like, I'm going to be somewhere where I can just be Zaria and all corners of my life and all that I am, and I'm going to take it and leave it. And like, I've gotten rejected from like, I remember I applied to Google, rejected Microsoft reject, like it's fine. Like that happens because I wasn't meant to be there. Um, and troublemakers are the ones that are causing seismic cultural shifts. Like I believe they're the ones that press the red button when most of us are too scared to press it ourselves. And I say this with my boss, Michaela, that I was talking about. I remember I used to push her and I was like, you just got to trust me and I'…

AI assessment note: “I would say you have to hire troublemakers.”

Q What's your favorite brand? Like, mine is Chanel. Timeless, elegant, crosses geographies, incredible. What's your favorite brand?

A You know, if I'm being so honest with you, I don't really care about brands, like in that sense of like, like I admire a brand like that. I love Ghani because I love their clothes. Like I love, I love Costco because I love shopping there, but it's more of like stuff like that. I don't think, and as a marketing person, I feel like I know I should have a perspective on that, but I think for me, it's like, I just love people who make great work, and I think not one brand has nailed that. Every time and time again, I think we all kind of bring our own pieces of that forward. So I don't think I have, like, a Nordstar brand.

AI assessment note: “I don't think I have, like, a Nordstar brand.”