The Exchanges

Q ago, and I loved it, and I've actually just listened to it again on the treadmill, so it's kind of funny and cool to hear your voice again just talking to me this time. I want to start with a little bit on you and the context. So tell me, we see Bumble today, but what was that founding aha moment For you, and what was that real first day?

A I would say it was the intersection of a few things. So, thing one was I had just left this incredibly fast-growing rocket ship of a startup that I helped found as one of the co-founders, which was Tinder, and I was 24 at the time. Basically, the way I left became very public. I'll never forget waking up one morning and Seeing Buzzfeed alert, New York times alert, all these things. I was like, what is happening? What is happening? Put this back in the box. Why is this happening? It was such an overwhelming, scary experience. And then what followed, I would say day one of what would eventually become bumble. And what followed was a lot of online hate, a lot of abuse, a lot of direct attacks towards me through my different social media channels. I took it so personally and it literally shattered my soul. I was Super depressed. I was super anxious and actually became a bit paranoid. That was the beginning of what led to the problem solving quest, which was, okay, Whitney, pull yourself together. You're about to turn 25 years old. You've got a roof over your head. You have resources and you have a family and you have all these things that so many people don't have, but what they do have is they have the online hate. So what does that 1314, 15 year old or whatever age What are they doing when they get attacked on the internet? And I had this overwhelming kind of clarity and drive to…

AI assessment note: “that was kind of day one of, I want to start a kinder, more civilized digital space”

Q I can't wait. Now, I want to do a final question, and is next Five years for you, and for Bumble, if we have this chat in twenty-twenty-seven, where would you like to be then?

A So, I guess high level, by twenty-twenty-seven, Bumble Inc. will have really, truly driven, countless, kinder connections, and made people actually connect, versus get more disconnected. I think the internet is actually this really interesting Place where it claims to connect you with others, but actually just disconnects you. So I hope Bumble Inc. will just build real deep connections for people across all relationship spectrum. So love, friendship, business, even just looking for an activity buddy or trying to connect with someone on a question that you can't get answered, but all with this through line of kindness and accountability and removing a lot of the toxicity that we're all struggling with on the internet. If you look on a global level, I think there's these Two huge issues. One, that toxicity is overtaking the internet, which is leading to unhealthy relationships and disconnected relationships. And then the second thing is that women still just are not in control. I mean, look at America right now. We don't even have choice of our bodies. And so that's really Bumble Inc.'s entire focus right now is like, how do we drive kind connections over their experience? And so by 20, 27, I hope we will have done that on a much larger scale. And Created some real change in the world.

AI assessment note: “by twenty-twenty-seven, Bumble Inc. will have really, truly driven, countless, kinder connections”

Q ago, and I loved it, and I've actually just listened to it again on the treadmill, so it's kind of funny and cool to hear your voice again just talking to me this time. I want to start with a little bit on you and the context. So tell me, we see Bumble today, but what was that founding aha moment For you, and what was that real first day?

A I would say it was the intersection of a few things. So, thing one was I had just left this incredibly fast-growing rocket ship of a startup that I helped found as one of the co-founders, which was Tinder, and I was 24 at the time. Basically, the way I left became very public. I'll never forget waking up one morning and Seeing Buzzfeed alert, New York times alert, all these things. I was like, what is happening? What is happening? Put this back in the box. Why is this happening? It was such an overwhelming, scary experience. And then what followed, I would say day one of what would eventually become bumble. And what followed was a lot of online hate, a lot of abuse, a lot of direct attacks towards me through my different social media channels. I took it so personally and it literally shattered my soul. I was Super depressed. I was super anxious and actually became a bit paranoid. That was the beginning of what led to the problem solving quest, which was, okay, Whitney, pull yourself together. You're about to turn 25 years old. You've got a roof over your head. You have resources and you have a family and you have all these things that so many people don't have, but what they do have is they have the online hate. So what does that 1314, 15 year old or whatever age What are they doing when they get attacked on the internet? And I had this overwhelming kind of clarity and drive to…

AI assessment note: “I had this overwhelming kind of clarity and drive to find a way to fix it.”

Q hours and hours and hours, and you're the only thing that really matters. I mean, your husband matters, but it's not a baby, respectfully. And so, like, I'm terrified, Whitney, that suddenly I will be not able to continue working the same way and become a bit mediocre. How do you retain being a rockstar CEO of a public company with two kids under two? Give me some confidence, please.

A So here's how I look at it. I actually, this is probably a terrible metaphor or analogy, Because I've never driven a stick shift, but before children, I kind of feel like I was just grinding in like the same gear all the time until I like blew the engine because I would just go and go and go. I'd work all day, every day, all day, every day, and I would never shift gears, but when you have children, you're forced to shift gears. When you get back into work gear, you're actually driving a lot smoother and you're driving a lot faster, and it's actually a much better ride. I know that's a terrible analogy, but Because you give your break to your mind and you give yourself this shifting of gear. I'll give it my all at work and I'll get through all my calls and my meetings and be really creative and get everything done in like a chunk of time. Then you shift gears and you go and you play with your kid. You focus on them and you deal with where's the water bottle or what happened to the snacks or this like mundane, but beautiful chapter of the day. And then all of a sudden that gears kind of grind and you're ready to shift back into work gear. And like, now it's like this smooth transition. And so I would actually say having children has made me a better person at work because when I show up at work, I'm fresh minded, not fresh because I'm completely exhausted. Let's just be clear. I …

AI assessment note: “having children has made me a better person at work because when I show up”

Q hours and hours and hours, and you're the only thing that really matters. I mean, your husband matters, but it's not a baby, respectfully. And so, like, I'm terrified, Whitney, that suddenly I will be not able to continue working the same way and become a bit mediocre. How do you retain being a rockstar CEO of a public company with two kids under two? Give me some confidence, please.

A So here's how I look at it. I actually, this is probably a terrible metaphor or analogy, Because I've never driven a stick shift, but before children, I kind of feel like I was just grinding in like the same gear all the time until I like blew the engine because I would just go and go and go. I'd work all day, every day, all day, every day, and I would never shift gears, but when you have children, you're forced to shift gears. When you get back into work gear, you're actually driving a lot smoother and you're driving a lot faster, and it's actually a much better ride. I know that's a terrible analogy, but Because you give your break to your mind and you give yourself this shifting of gear. I'll give it my all at work and I'll get through all my calls and my meetings and be really creative and get everything done in like a chunk of time. Then you shift gears and you go and you play with your kid. You focus on them and you deal with where's the water bottle or what happened to the snacks or this like mundane, but beautiful chapter of the day. And then all of a sudden that gears kind of grind and you're ready to shift back into work gear. And like, now it's like this smooth transition. And so I would actually say having children has made me a better person at work because when I show up at work, I'm fresh minded, not fresh because I'm completely exhausted. Let's just be clear. I …

AI assessment note: “having children has made me a better person at work because when I show up”

Q be transparent? So I often say to founders that I work with you, you can't be transparent on fundraisers. Because teams get excited, and then demotivated if it doesn't come through, or M&A, they get excited about an exit, and then if it doesn't come through, it's very difficult to get over. Are there any elements for you that you find challenging to be transparent about, because it's actually unproductive?

A But you can be transparent about not being able to talk about it. That's the key differentiator. People start getting spooked when there's no transparency around the need for privacy. So let's just give it, let's do an example there. Let's say the team wants Context on some future looking initiative, but we have to keep it super confidential because if it were to get out, it would violate X, Y, or Z. I'm making up a random scenario by just saying nothing is where the lack of transparency comes in and where fear starts building. It's better to actually just say, I know everyone wants to have information on this topic and we'd love to talk about this, but to be fully transparent with you, we cannot, and we really respect your privacy around this And I promise you as soon as we can, you will hear from us immediately so that it doesn't look like there's some secrecy taking place. And I think transparency can still preserve privacy. There's a difference between privacy feeling scary and confidentiality feeling scary. And then a difference between confidentiality feeling understandable. I think that's the magic piece is like, how do you transparently explain that there are certain things that have to be preserved in confidence?

AI assessment note: “you can be transparent about not being able to talk about it.”

Q they start failing. When you think about your leadership style today, if you're self-reflective, sitting in an armchair, and you hear me ask, how would you describe your style of leadership today? There's many different styles. There's no right or wrong, but how would you describe your style? And then how has it changed from being the twenty-four-year-old in the hyper-growth journeys of Tinder? How have you seen it evolve?

A So I'm 100% not read three business books a week and then become your own like hodgepodge version of what everybody else has done leader. That's definitely not my style. My style is just a derivative of our values and of our mission. So if we are really trying to create a kinder environment online, that means we have to lead with kindness. If we are trying to create a more accountable and transparent Transparent digital space and spaces, right? That means we have to lead with those values. We have to lead with accountability. We have to lead with vulnerability. If the leader can't reflect the values of a business, they shouldn't be leading that business. Hard stop. When the leader is not aligned with what the company is actually trying to do, it's actually no longer a leader. It's a misfit.

AI assessment note: “My style is just a derivative of our values and of our mission.”

Q Who's so unproductive to do meals? What's wrong with you?

A Like, who does that time with anyone at that hour of eight? No, I'm just kidding, but it's made me much more aware of people's lives being not just work, and I think this is a downside of a lot of founders. We assume that the whole world is obsessed with Whatever they're building, when in reality, like, they have to go through carpool, and pick up kids, and put food on the table, and do all these things, so I would say I'm a bit more mindful of people's personal lives, which thank God I've come to that place, because that's not a great way to lead, so I'm glad that we've moved away from the very mindful of hours and time, and being mindful of that.

AI assessment note: “it's made me much more aware of people's lives being not just work”

Q we really had to focus on today, and we chatted a little bit before you said about, kind of, two children under two, being a rockstar CEO, running a public company, and the first thing I have to ask is, high performance means a lot to a lot of different people. If I say the words high performance to you, what's the first thing that comes to your mind, Whitney?

A Wow. High performance Is just waking up every day and giving it your best. I know that sounds so cheesy and sounds like something on your second grade, like bulletin board in school, but really it's true. Just get up, lead with heart and give it your best. I try to not overthink the day and try to keep that North star. So in focus, right? How do we give women control over their experience? How do we make These digital spaces a little bit safer. How do we actually help our team members enjoy what they're doing every day? I do not want people to come to work and hate their lives, right? I think the only thing I could really point to is I really do try to somehow put myself in other people's shoes instead of only think about myself in that day, but I'm not entirely sure if that's the ticket or not. It's just all I know how to do at this point.

AI assessment note: “High performance Is just waking up every day and giving it your best.”

Q we really had to focus on today, and we chatted a little bit before you said about, kind of, two children under two, being a rockstar CEO, running a public company, and the first thing I have to ask is, high performance means a lot to a lot of different people. If I say the words high performance to you, what's the first thing that comes to your mind, Whitney?

A Wow. High performance Is just waking up every day and giving it your best. I know that sounds so cheesy and sounds like something on your second grade, like bulletin board in school, but really it's true. Just get up, lead with heart and give it your best. I try to not overthink the day and try to keep that North star. So in focus, right? How do we give women control over their experience? How do we make These digital spaces a little bit safer. How do we actually help our team members enjoy what they're doing every day? I do not want people to come to work and hate their lives, right? I think the only thing I could really point to is I really do try to somehow put myself in other people's shoes instead of only think about myself in that day, but I'm not entirely sure if that's the ticket or not. It's just all I know how to do at this point.

AI assessment note: “High performance Is just waking up every day and giving it your best.”

Q How do you handle and deal with pressure? Everyone has their own coping mechanisms. How do you think about handling and dealing with pressure to approach the next rapid ready to go?

A That's a great question. I think we went through a couple rough chapters over the recent history, and someone sent me a quote that I loved, and now I've seen the quote like everywhere, like I actually saw it in a grocery store the other day, so I guess it's actually a pretty common quote. I thought it was the most insightful thing, which it still is insightful if this person listens. I love you for sending me this quote, but it said, pressure makes diamonds. I think we just have to remind ourselves that pressure is part of it, and anything worth Going through is going to be hard, and so if you can turn that pressure into a different sensation in your mind, instead of looking at it as this scary doomsday sentiment or feeling, and like you got to run away from it, how do you actually make pressure motivate you, and how can you actually let pressure be this building block to your next level? Pressure will lead to something good if you let it, instead of letting it just crush you. I've tried to do a few things. I think First of all, can you laugh about the situation? Can you just sit down and just, like, actually have a laugh? Because things feel so crazy. Sometimes just laughing is the only thing that works. You have to find the humor in these, like, huge feelings. Also, just saying, like, this too shall pass. My mom always said, this too shall pass, this too shall pass. Whatever …

AI assessment note: “First of all, can you laugh about the situation?”

Q like I'm in the chapter before where you saw it in the grocery store, because that is a fantastic quote. You mentioned running as fast as you possibly could post the experience when you were much younger. I'm intrigued. Risk is an interesting Subject, and many people have different, like, relationships to risk. How do you feel about your relationship to risk today, and has it changed over the years?

A So, my husband, who at the time when this happened was my boyfriend, his grandfather became, like, the most important person in my entire world. So much so that actually our first son is named after him and was born on his birthday, and he passed just three days later, so it was this, like, crazy, beautiful, and devastating moment all in one, but I'll never forget. I think it was probably one of my lower days and it was post leading Tinder. And I can't remember exactly what the context was. He's a very wise man, very wise man in some frantic state. And he looked at me and he held my hands and he said, well, what do you have to lose? And that has been this resounding message in my head, my entire career. Every time there's some huge moment of risk, I just remind myself of granddaddy saying that to me is what do you have to lose? And so he Every time some huge risk presents itself, I really just say, what do we have to lose? And if what we have to lose is greater than the reward, then that's how you really measure it. But truly, if you don't have that much to lose, just go for it. Run, go do it. I think so many people forget to calm down and actually say, what is actually at stake here? Is it really the end of the world if this thing doesn't work? And oftentimes they'll realize that it's not. But people's fear of not slowing down and actually thinking about the real actual conseq…

AI assessment note: “Every time there's some huge moment of risk, I just remind myself of granddaddy”

Q like I'm in the chapter before where you saw it in the grocery store, because that is a fantastic quote. You mentioned running as fast as you possibly could post the experience when you were much younger. I'm intrigued. Risk is an interesting Subject, and many people have different, like, relationships to risk. How do you feel about your relationship to risk today, and has it changed over the years?

A So, my husband, who at the time when this happened was my boyfriend, his grandfather became, like, the most important person in my entire world. So much so that actually our first son is named after him and was born on his birthday, and he passed just three days later, so it was this, like, crazy, beautiful, and devastating moment all in one, but I'll never forget. I think it was probably one of my lower days and it was post leading Tinder. And I can't remember exactly what the context was. He's a very wise man, very wise man in some frantic state. And he looked at me and he held my hands and he said, well, what do you have to lose? And that has been this resounding message in my head, my entire career. Every time there's some huge moment of risk, I just remind myself of granddaddy saying that to me is what do you have to lose? And so he Every time some huge risk presents itself, I really just say, what do we have to lose? And if what we have to lose is greater than the reward, then that's how you really measure it. But truly, if you don't have that much to lose, just go for it. Run, go do it. I think so many people forget to calm down and actually say, what is actually at stake here? Is it really the end of the world if this thing doesn't work? And oftentimes they'll realize that it's not. But people's fear of not slowing down and actually thinking about the real actual conseq…

AI assessment note: “Every time some huge risk presents itself, I really just say, what do we have to lose?”

Q Who's so unproductive to do meals? What's wrong with you?

A Like, who does that time with anyone at that hour of eight? No, I'm just kidding, but it's made me much more aware of people's lives being not just work, and I think this is a downside of a lot of founders. We assume that the whole world is obsessed with Whatever they're building, when in reality, like, they have to go through carpool, and pick up kids, and put food on the table, and do all these things, so I would say I'm a bit more mindful of people's personal lives, which thank God I've come to that place, because that's not a great way to lead, so I'm glad that we've moved away from the very mindful of hours and time, and being mindful of that.

AI assessment note: “it's made me much more aware of people's lives being not just work”

Q How do you know when to listen to customer feedback versus when to ignore it and progress with the original plans? Because sometimes customers need to be led to a product vision that they don't maybe see. How do you think about when to listen versus when to go on your own and go on your gut?

A A key difference here. You have to listen always, right? Acting is different. When do you act on what you've heard? That's a totally different situation. I think you have to always listen. When a leader stops listening is when a leader starts failing. I think that is number one thing I have seen throughout my very intense career is when people stop listening, that's when they start imploding. I think you have to always listen. So even on that one rogue tweet that says, Hey, I hate the color of this or whatever random thing they can come up with. Listen and actually take five seconds to say, wait a second. Is that color really what they say it is? Okay. No, no, it's not moving on. So always listen, but then really reflect and then run the analysis. And if the analysis supports it, then you can actually act on it. You don't have to let every single opinion just blow you in the wind, but you should let every single opinion form a thought in your mind and hear it. And then you can take that and then really act on it.

AI assessment note: “always listen, but then really reflect and then run the analysis”

Q You said about kind of give it your best. I'm totally with you. My question to you is, how do you know when to stop? Sometimes projects don't work. Sometimes new product features don't work. And give it your best, there is a limit to actually we should stop doing this. How do you think about when's the right time or when to know when to quit?

A Ego is a huge issue for a lot of people and projects and things, and I'm sure I've been guilty of this in the past. You have your heart so set on something that you can't See past the reality of the situation. The perfect balance is a healthy dose of heart and data. So how can you actually take your belief system on this feature or this initiative or this direction, but then you've got to back it up. How do you let your customer and your members actually be the leaders? Because so often it's easy to point to the most experienced people in the room. Okay. Who graduated from this fancy college and has the most experience and can speak super well and But the people that actually matter the most are the people using your product and telling you this doesn't work or yeah, you've got a blind spot or you're missing this. And so being able to balance that is really important. Now there's a caveat because usually the most vocal people are not the masses. So you get like the Twitter people who are like, you screwed this up and you have to do this this way and you need to do it that way. But then when you actually run the deeper analysis, there's like three people that think that, and there's a huge problem. Group of others that don't. So I would say being really diligent about listening. I think listening is the magic word, like listening to your members, listening to your team, listenin…

AI assessment note: “The perfect balance is a healthy dose of heart and data.”

Q How do you handle and deal with pressure? Everyone has their own coping mechanisms. How do you think about handling and dealing with pressure to approach the next rapid ready to go?

A That's a great question. I think we went through a couple rough chapters over the recent history, and someone sent me a quote that I loved, and now I've seen the quote like everywhere, like I actually saw it in a grocery store the other day, so I guess it's actually a pretty common quote. I thought it was the most insightful thing, which it still is insightful if this person listens. I love you for sending me this quote, but it said, pressure makes diamonds. I think we just have to remind ourselves that pressure is part of it, and anything worth Going through is going to be hard, and so if you can turn that pressure into a different sensation in your mind, instead of looking at it as this scary doomsday sentiment or feeling, and like you got to run away from it, how do you actually make pressure motivate you, and how can you actually let pressure be this building block to your next level? Pressure will lead to something good if you let it, instead of letting it just crush you. I've tried to do a few things. I think First of all, can you laugh about the situation? Can you just sit down and just, like, actually have a laugh? Because things feel so crazy. Sometimes just laughing is the only thing that works. You have to find the humor in these, like, huge feelings. Also, just saying, like, this too shall pass. My mom always said, this too shall pass, this too shall pass. Whatever …

AI assessment note: “First of all, can you laugh about the situation? Can you just sit down and just, like, actually have a laugh?”

Q The head of sales that left, and it's a disaster, it's a disaster. In 10 years you'll be like, I don't remember that. And so I think it's important to remember that also. I've been lucky with great mentors. You Did incredibly well very young. Did you have mentors in your younger days? Do you have mentors now? And what have been some big lessons if you have had some?

A First of all, I love that you brought up the will this matter in 10 years, because I will say that I used to use the number nine, sometimes I use the number five, you can use really any number you want, but I used to do this thing where, do the exercise, ok, does this matter in five minutes? Does this matter in five days? Does this matter in five weeks? Does this matter in five months? Does this matter in five years? If it doesn't matter every five months or five years, it just really reframes everything. And so many things that we think will matter in five years really only matter for five minutes or five days or five weeks maximum. And I think that's such a healthy way to calibrate our reactions to things and our responses to things. But as far as the mentor piece goes, so this is going to sound really crazy and weird. And a lot of people will probably disagree with this, but it's just my personal framework. I literally make every single person my mentor. I don't care if it's the person that is giving me a ride from the airport to a work event, or if it's someone that checking you in somewhere, try to learn something from everyone. I've been forced to take that framework because at a younger age, I didn't really have strong mentors. And so I tried to just listen to everyone. And I love the quote that be kind to everyone because everyone is fighting their own battle and you ne…

AI assessment note: “I literally make every single person my mentor.”

Q How do you know when to listen to customer feedback versus when to ignore it and progress with the original plans? Because sometimes customers need to be led to a product vision that they don't maybe see. How do you think about when to listen versus when to go on your own and go on your gut?

A A key difference here. You have to listen always, right? Acting is different. When do you act on what you've heard? That's a totally different situation. I think you have to always listen. When a leader stops listening is when a leader starts failing. I think that is number one thing I have seen throughout my very intense career is when people stop listening, that's when they start imploding. I think you have to always listen. So even on that one rogue tweet that says, Hey, I hate the color of this or whatever random thing they can come up with. Listen and actually take five seconds to say, wait a second. Is that color really what they say it is? Okay. No, no, it's not moving on. So always listen, but then really reflect and then run the analysis. And if the analysis supports it, then you can actually act on it. You don't have to let every single opinion just blow you in the wind, but you should let every single opinion form a thought in your mind and hear it. And then you can take that and then really act on it.

AI assessment note: “if the analysis supports it, then you can actually act on it.”

Q You said about kind of give it your best. I'm totally with you. My question to you is, how do you know when to stop? Sometimes projects don't work. Sometimes new product features don't work. And give it your best, there is a limit to actually we should stop doing this. How do you think about when's the right time or when to know when to quit?

A Ego is a huge issue for a lot of people and projects and things, and I'm sure I've been guilty of this in the past. You have your heart so set on something that you can't See past the reality of the situation. The perfect balance is a healthy dose of heart and data. So how can you actually take your belief system on this feature or this initiative or this direction, but then you've got to back it up. How do you let your customer and your members actually be the leaders? Because so often it's easy to point to the most experienced people in the room. Okay. Who graduated from this fancy college and has the most experience and can speak super well and But the people that actually matter the most are the people using your product and telling you this doesn't work or yeah, you've got a blind spot or you're missing this. And so being able to balance that is really important. Now there's a caveat because usually the most vocal people are not the masses. So you get like the Twitter people who are like, you screwed this up and you have to do this this way and you need to do it that way. But then when you actually run the deeper analysis, there's like three people that think that, and there's a huge problem. Group of others that don't. So I would say being really diligent about listening. I think listening is the magic word, like listening to your members, listening to your team, listenin…

AI assessment note: “The perfect balance is a healthy dose of heart and data.”

Q be transparent? So I often say to founders that I work with you, you can't be transparent on fundraisers. Because teams get excited, and then demotivated if it doesn't come through, or M&A, they get excited about an exit, and then if it doesn't come through, it's very difficult to get over. Are there any elements for you that you find challenging to be transparent about, because it's actually unproductive?

A But you can be transparent about not being able to talk about it. That's the key differentiator. People start getting spooked when there's no transparency around the need for privacy. So let's just give it, let's do an example there. Let's say the team wants Context on some future looking initiative, but we have to keep it super confidential because if it were to get out, it would violate X, Y, or Z. I'm making up a random scenario by just saying nothing is where the lack of transparency comes in and where fear starts building. It's better to actually just say, I know everyone wants to have information on this topic and we'd love to talk about this, but to be fully transparent with you, we cannot, and we really respect your privacy around this And I promise you as soon as we can, you will hear from us immediately so that it doesn't look like there's some secrecy taking place. And I think transparency can still preserve privacy. There's a difference between privacy feeling scary and confidentiality feeling scary. And then a difference between confidentiality feeling understandable. I think that's the magic piece is like, how do you transparently explain that there are certain things that have to be preserved in confidence?

AI assessment note: “you can be transparent about not being able to talk about it”

Q they start failing. When you think about your leadership style today, if you're self-reflective, sitting in an armchair, and you hear me ask, how would you describe your style of leadership today? There's many different styles. There's no right or wrong, but how would you describe your style? And then how has it changed from being the twenty-four-year-old in the hyper-growth journeys of Tinder? How have you seen it evolve?

A So I'm 100% not read three business books a week and then become your own like hodgepodge version of what everybody else has done leader. That's definitely not my style. My style is just a derivative of our values and of our mission. So if we are really trying to create a kinder environment online, that means we have to lead with kindness. If we are trying to create a more accountable and transparent Transparent digital space and spaces, right? That means we have to lead with those values. We have to lead with accountability. We have to lead with vulnerability. If the leader can't reflect the values of a business, they shouldn't be leading that business. Hard stop. When the leader is not aligned with what the company is actually trying to do, it's actually no longer a leader. It's a misfit.

AI assessment note: “My style is just a derivative of our values and of our mission.”

Q The head of sales that left, and it's a disaster, it's a disaster. In 10 years you'll be like, I don't remember that. And so I think it's important to remember that also. I've been lucky with great mentors. You Did incredibly well very young. Did you have mentors in your younger days? Do you have mentors now? And what have been some big lessons if you have had some?

A First of all, I love that you brought up the will this matter in 10 years, because I will say that I used to use the number nine, sometimes I use the number five, you can use really any number you want, but I used to do this thing where, do the exercise, ok, does this matter in five minutes? Does this matter in five days? Does this matter in five weeks? Does this matter in five months? Does this matter in five years? If it doesn't matter every five months or five years, it just really reframes everything. And so many things that we think will matter in five years really only matter for five minutes or five days or five weeks maximum. And I think that's such a healthy way to calibrate our reactions to things and our responses to things. But as far as the mentor piece goes, so this is going to sound really crazy and weird. And a lot of people will probably disagree with this, but it's just my personal framework. I literally make every single person my mentor. I don't care if it's the person that is giving me a ride from the airport to a work event, or if it's someone that checking you in somewhere, try to learn something from everyone. I've been forced to take that framework because at a younger age, I didn't really have strong mentors. And so I tried to just listen to everyone. And I love the quote that be kind to everyone because everyone is fighting their own battle and you ne…

AI assessment note: “at a younger age, I didn't really have strong mentors.”