The Exchanges

Q Well, I'd love, though, to start, and start a little earlier than usual with a question from Steve, who asks, what was it like growing up in rural Minnesota, and then what did it take to apply to universities like Stanford and MIT? Let's start with that.

A Yeah, going way back. Yeah, so I grew up in the middle of nowhere. It was literally a farming town on the Iowa border in Minnesota. And so most of the kids in my school, some went to college, most stayed in state. And so I remember, gosh, when I was probably in grade school, being incredibly inspired by these Apple IIs we had at school, and it just clicked. And I'm like, I am going to learn how to program these things. I want to use computers to solve problems. And ever since time, I was just on a mission to figure out the best engineering schools. I wish I still had the copy of this, but I bought a U S world and news report and it listed top engineering schools. And I'm like, Hmm, okay, let's pick an East coast one, a West coast one and apply. And so, you know, there was, there was no college tour. There was no guidance counselor helping me on this process. And I joke that, you know, I almost applied to Caltech versus Stanford. So I chose wisely there, but And I also applied to MIT, and I got in early, and I remember I went to Boston to go visit MIT, which was my absolute dream school at the time, and I got there, and I was like, wow, this is in a city. This is a big city. I remember being a little freaked out by how urban it was, and so I ended up accepting Stanford sight unseen, which obviously ended up just being an incredible chance to come out to California.

AI assessment note: “I bought a U S world and news report and it listed top engineering schools”

Q So, let's start with your favorite book and why. What must I be reading on my next trip out to you?

A You know, my favorite book tends to be the last book I've read, and I just finished reading Brotopia by Emily Chang, and I had the fortune to see her at South by Southwest the other day. Obviously, this is a thing that I've cared a lot about, being a woman in the tech industry, and I think she brings such a great lens to what is happening, why talking about it is important, and how we can make change going forward. And a couple of my favorite takeaways were You know, she talks about company like Google, you know, we only ever think of Larry and Sergey, but there were incredibly important and influential women who helped lead that company in the early days and helped build out the business model that made Google what it is. And that story doesn't get told enough.

AI assessment note: “I just finished reading Brotopia by Emily Chang”

Q Now, it's an amazing team-building exercise. I'm intrigued that if there were any kind of concerns or pushbacks from LPs, were there any commonalities amongst them?

A Well, the biggest concern is you've got a new team coming together, so Neil and I didn't have this Story of, you know, yeah, we've worked together for the last 10 years, but at different firms, we really hadn't crossed paths. In fact, my husband, Steve, introduced the two of us a few years ago when they were at a basketball game together, and Neil had relayed to Steve that he was going to be leaving General Catalyst. Steve immediately said, oh, you've got to, got to talk to Trey, because he's actively looking for a partner, and so this was, you know, we partnered specifically to build Defy and And we didn't rush into it. We actually spent a fair amount of time making sure that we had aligned values, and that ultimately our skills complemented each other, and that we had working styles that were going to work together, because this is a massive, massive personal commitment to, you know, really working with someone for, you know, this is what I plan to be doing for the rest of my career, and so you have to make sure that that fit is really solid.

AI assessment note: “Well, the biggest concern is you've got a new team coming together”

Q Well, I'd love, though, to start, and start a little earlier than usual with a question from Steve, who asks, what was it like growing up in rural Minnesota, and then what did it take to apply to universities like Stanford and MIT? Let's start with that.

A Yeah, going way back. Yeah, so I grew up in the middle of nowhere. It was literally a farming town on the Iowa border in Minnesota. And so most of the kids in my school, some went to college, most stayed in state. And so I remember, gosh, when I was probably in grade school, being incredibly inspired by these Apple IIs we had at school, and it just clicked. And I'm like, I am going to learn how to program these things. I want to use computers to solve problems. And ever since time, I was just on a mission to figure out the best engineering schools. I wish I still had the copy of this, but I bought a U S world and news report and it listed top engineering schools. And I'm like, Hmm, okay, let's pick an East coast one, a West coast one and apply. And so, you know, there was, there was no college tour. There was no guidance counselor helping me on this process. And I joke that, you know, I almost applied to Caltech versus Stanford. So I chose wisely there, but And I also applied to MIT, and I got in early, and I remember I went to Boston to go visit MIT, which was my absolute dream school at the time, and I got there, and I was like, wow, this is in a city. This is a big city. I remember being a little freaked out by how urban it was, and so I ended up accepting Stanford sight unseen, which obviously ended up just being an incredible chance to come out to California.

AI assessment note: “There was no college tour. There was no guidance counselor helping me on this process.”

Q You mentioned the element of time there. Moving to the present, you said before that you never thought you'd start a new firm. So, with the starting of Defy, Tell me what happened, and why did you decide to start, and what was the catalyst for now?

A The venture industry is overfunded. I mean, I don't think anyone would argue that there's, you know, not too much capital in the venture industry. I actually thought it was sort of silly to say, oh, we need yet another venture firm. But after I left Kleiner in 2014, I went on an exploration of, you know, should I consider maybe some later stage investing? Should I go early? The one thing I knew I wanted to do was build on my previous six Experience and do something that was slightly different. And so in that process, I also did some seed investing and working really closely and coaching entrepreneurs. And it was through that following the path of the entrepreneur where I realized, wow, so, you know, there's a lot of money in this industry, but it's sort of pooled in very specific parts of the ecosystem. And when entrepreneurs have gotten some seed funding, and then they want to go out and actually do a venture round, meaning they want to get a person on their board who's going to be working with them for the next couple of years, you know, oftentimes what they hear is you're too early, come back later. And that's because a lot of the venture firms that used to be early stage focused venture firms have gone from, you know, having 304 hundred million dollar funds to billion dollar funds. And these billion dollar funds are not likely investing three to four million dollars at a ti…

AI assessment note: “made me realize, wow, there's not a lot of options for entrepreneurs”

Q I would love to discuss the other element being the infrastructure, I think it's a huge challenge that's often not discussed. For you, how did you kind of approach, handle the infrastructure, and were there hurdles that you found particularly challenging in establishing?

A One thing that I thought was pretty funny was how everyone said, oh yeah, you just outsourced the back office. You know, I started my career at a service firm, so one thing I know is that that can really go awry if you don't have someone on your team who is actively managing that and spending a significant amount of time managing what's being outsourced. And, you know, as Neil and I were looking at each other, neither of us necessarily wanted to spend a significant chunk of our time managing the back office. Our job is to work with entrepreneurs and build a really strong portfolio. So we very quickly said, we want to build our firm on the premise of operational excellence. It is important to us, and we are going to invest in bringing on a fantastic CFO. She's bringing to what we're doing in 10 years of experience working at another great firm of how to do fund management work. You know, that has just been a fantastic investment. And I will add the reason why a lot of people end up outsourcing it is because it becomes a fund expense. When you outsource it to hire someone that comes out of the management fee pool. And so there's a weird adverse incentive to want to hire the right people. But we absolutely said, this is important to us and we're going to make this happen.

AI assessment note: “we are going to invest in bringing on a fantastic CFO.”

Q Can I jump in and ask, well, you know, a lot of entrepreneurs dream would be to have John Doerr on their board. What was it like having John on your board as a first time founder as well?

A Yeah, well, and John, you know, and this is back, we founded Good in March of 2000. So this is right before the crash. And, you know, John had, you know, was on the board of Amazon and he had just done Google at this time and just this incredible, iconic investor and just wonderfully in So the thing that was so incredible about working with John is that he was really good at quickly identifying the big question, the big issue. He never got distracted by the small minutiae that so many folks can get distracted by. He was always laser focused on what's it going to take to turn this into a great big opportunity, and so I absolutely adored working with John.

AI assessment note: “the thing that was so incredible about working with John is that he was really good”

Q You mentioned the element of time there. Moving to the present, you said before that you never thought you'd start a new firm. So, with the starting of Defy, Tell me what happened, and why did you decide to start, and what was the catalyst for now?

A The venture industry is overfunded. I mean, I don't think anyone would argue that there's, you know, not too much capital in the venture industry. I actually thought it was sort of silly to say, oh, we need yet another venture firm. But after I left Kleiner in 2014, I went on an exploration of, you know, should I consider maybe some later stage investing? Should I go early? The one thing I knew I wanted to do was build on my previous six Experience and do something that was slightly different. And so in that process, I also did some seed investing and working really closely and coaching entrepreneurs. And it was through that following the path of the entrepreneur where I realized, wow, so, you know, there's a lot of money in this industry, but it's sort of pooled in very specific parts of the ecosystem. And when entrepreneurs have gotten some seed funding, and then they want to go out and actually do a venture round, meaning they want to get a person on their board who's going to be working with them for the next couple of years, you know, oftentimes what they hear is you're too early, come back later. And that's because a lot of the venture firms that used to be early stage focused venture firms have gone from, you know, having 304 hundred million dollar funds to billion dollar funds. And these billion dollar funds are not likely investing three to four million dollars at a ti…

AI assessment note: “made me realize, wow, there's not a lot of options for entrepreneurs”

Q Can I ask why a 151? That seems like a very specific number.

A It is. It is. And so, in fact, our cap was one 50. And so it's actually a great story. And I think it was a really good example of How much we care about our entrepreneurs, but there was an entrepreneur who had been an incredible, it is an incredible reference for us. We've had backed him previously in, I believe, two other, you know, ventures that he had grown, and he wanted to put a million bucks into our firm and be the one 51 of what we were building, and he was turning 51. His lucky number was 51. His football jersey in high school was 51, and he had just been diagnosed with And so, it was this really emotional, credible, hey, I want to be part of what you guys are doing, and I would love to be able to contribute to this, and this is really meaningful, and let's make this one 51. And so, we went back to our LPs, because we had to raise our cap to do this, you know, and it's not significant, but it's, again, it's this emotional, important thing to us, and to the folks who, you know, really helped us get to where we are today. And so, everyone, of Of course, it's super supportive, but that's why it's one 51.

AI assessment note: “that's why it's one 51.”

Q I mean, I, I love that, and it sounds exactly like our LP meetings right now. It's the exact same thing. I am interested. David Bison at Next. You recently said on the show that all A rounds are post-trash. I'm intrigued with this kind of de-risking of the large multi-stage funds portfolios and how they're thinking. Would you agree with this?

A No, I don't actually agree with that, and I think it also depends on what you define as traction. In fact, our first investment was in a company that was absolutely pre-revenue. It was a Series A. They hadn't launched their product, but it was an investment in a different set of criteria. And so, I think it really matters what you're investing in, and so, yes, that might apply to purely investing in SaaS-type companies, but it's not a broadly applicable statement. I would also argue that, again, traction is a bit relative, so at the early Series A, you may have some early indicators of the product working for the customer, but by no means are you just ready to pour on the dollars for growth. You're Still figuring some things out, which means there's still going to be bumps in the road around your revenue traction.

AI assessment note: “No, I don't actually agree with that, and I think it also depends”

Q I would love to discuss the other element being the infrastructure, I think it's a huge challenge that's often not discussed. For you, how did you kind of approach, handle the infrastructure, and were there hurdles that you found particularly challenging in establishing?

A One thing that I thought was pretty funny was how everyone said, oh yeah, you just outsourced the back office. You know, I started my career at a service firm, so one thing I know is that that can really go awry if you don't have someone on your team who is actively managing that and spending a significant amount of time managing what's being outsourced. And, you know, as Neil and I were looking at each other, neither of us necessarily wanted to spend a significant chunk of our time managing the back office. Our job is to work with entrepreneurs and build a really strong portfolio. So we very quickly said, we want to build our firm on the premise of operational excellence. It is important to us, and we are going to invest in bringing on a fantastic CFO. She's bringing to what we're doing in 10 years of experience working at another great firm of how to do fund management work. You know, that has just been a fantastic investment. And I will add the reason why a lot of people end up outsourcing it is because it becomes a fund expense. When you outsource it to hire someone that comes out of the management fee pool. And so there's a weird adverse incentive to want to hire the right people. But we absolutely said, this is important to us and we're going to make this happen.

AI assessment note: “we are going to invest in bringing on a fantastic CFO”

Q I mean, just an incredible opportunity. But I would love to start on kind of that and the learnings. You mentioned, obviously, that the entrance to Kleiner with you as an entrepreneur in residence. What were the big learnings from the time that you spent there as your first job in VC, and how has that translated to how you think about the starting and running of DeFi?

A Great question. So, I ended up staying at Kleiner for 11 years, and over that time, worked with 40 different companies, and importantly, I got to work with a number of really incredible investors. So, You know, a lot of folks will say that investing is very much an apprenticeship job. Investors have different styles. John Doar's style was very different from the node coastless style. And those, they were both partners at Kleiner when I first started there. So I got to shadow John and some board meetings. I, you know, got to shadow of a node. There were other incredible partners like Kevin Compton, who I worked really closely with. And so I just really sought out chances to interact with each of these different folks and understand how Their styles and how they work with entrepreneurs and the things they value. And so that was really helpful in at least positioning for me. How do they connect with the entrepreneur? How do they add value in a board meeting? And then also just their frameworks for what makes a great investment. I would say another thing that I did learn over my time there was, you know, the firm grew from what was a small early stage venture firm to a firm that had a lot of different Investing groups, a growth group, a smaller group. There was a technology group. There was a green tech group. And so one of the learnings for myself was that I wasn't so sure that ve…

AI assessment note: “one of the learnings for myself was that I wasn't so sure that venture scaled”

Q I'm intrigued. You said, though, about the different types of investors that they were. When did you find out what type of investor and board member you were? Is there like a catalyst turning point where you realize what type you are?

A Yeah, that's a good question. I can't say there was ever an aha moment, but I certainly had, you know, my share of things that were really challenging and tough and groomy as a person. I, one of the companies that I had the chance to take the reins of one of my first board opportunities was actually a company that was in distress. And so we had to do a CEO change. And so one of the Kleiner partners was leaving the board and said, you know, try, see if you can clean this up. And it's oftentimes these really challenging hard opportunities where you really Step up and figure out where your strengths are and working with that CEO to replace himself with a more appropriate CEO for how the company was being positioned, bringing in new investors, recapping the company. It was really hard times, but on the other hand, one of the things that I really appreciated was my ability to, you know, really guide and help folks along through what was a challenging time. The other thing that, that I realized that I had that maybe stood out as something different was The fact that I had been an engineer, and I had shipped products, I had started a company, and helped that company grow, really did give me a different level of empathy with the entrepreneur, and so one of the things that I found is I was connecting with the entrepreneur and the teams in different ways than my partners were, and so I r…

AI assessment note: “I can't say there was ever an aha moment, but I certainly had”

Q Can I ask why a 151? That seems like a very specific number.

A It is. It is. And so, in fact, our cap was one 50. And so it's actually a great story. And I think it was a really good example of How much we care about our entrepreneurs, but there was an entrepreneur who had been an incredible, it is an incredible reference for us. We've had backed him previously in, I believe, two other, you know, ventures that he had grown, and he wanted to put a million bucks into our firm and be the one 51 of what we were building, and he was turning 51. His lucky number was 51. His football jersey in high school was 51, and he had just been diagnosed with And so, it was this really emotional, credible, hey, I want to be part of what you guys are doing, and I would love to be able to contribute to this, and this is really meaningful, and let's make this one 51. And so, we went back to our LPs, because we had to raise our cap to do this, you know, and it's not significant, but it's, again, it's this emotional, important thing to us, and to the folks who, you know, really helped us get to where we are today. And so, everyone, of Of course, it's super supportive, but that's why it's one 51.

AI assessment note: “he wanted to put a million bucks into our firm and be the one 51”

Q Can I jump in and ask, well, you know, a lot of entrepreneurs dream would be to have John Doerr on their board. What was it like having John on your board as a first time founder as well?

A Yeah, well, and John, you know, and this is back, we founded Good in March of 2000. So this is right before the crash. And, you know, John had, you know, was on the board of Amazon and he had just done Google at this time and just this incredible, iconic investor and just wonderfully in So the thing that was so incredible about working with John is that he was really good at quickly identifying the big question, the big issue. He never got distracted by the small minutiae that so many folks can get distracted by. He was always laser focused on what's it going to take to turn this into a great big opportunity, and so I absolutely adored working with John.

AI assessment note: “the thing that was so incredible about working with John is that he was really good”

Q I feel very familiar with this story. This is wonderful. And then how did venture come about from the love of engineering?

A So the first job out of Stanford was actually at a firm called IDEO. I wanted to put my engineering skills to work and design some products, and at a place like IDEO, I was able to, gosh, work on a lot of really interesting products, but the one for me that completely changed my outlook on life was the Palm Five. It was a pretty revolutionary handheld at the time. Myself and one other engineer basically engineered the whole product. That opportunity to see something that I had worked on, on the shelves, in the stores, in people's hands, Completely blew my mind. And on top of that, it was the first time where I had worked with a woman CEO of a startup company. And so, you know, my, my head basically was like, okay, I love what I'm doing, but I love what she's doing. I want to figure out how to go do that. So that started my journey to a business school and it was really Stanford or bust because I wanted to stay in the startup ecosystem. They let me back in. I had a really wonderful time at Stanford learning how to come, Out of my shell and network and not be just the geeky engineer. And in my second year of business school, I saw John Doerr grabbing a newspaper and, and I had to bolster all of my courage because I was quite shy at the time. And I walked up to him and I said, hi, my name's Trey. And I just got done helping ship the Palm five. And I really want to find a company o…

AI assessment note: “I saw John Doerr grabbing a newspaper and, and I had to bolster all of my courage”

Q I feel very familiar with this story. This is wonderful. And then how did venture come about from the love of engineering?

A So the first job out of Stanford was actually at a firm called IDEO. I wanted to put my engineering skills to work and design some products, and at a place like IDEO, I was able to, gosh, work on a lot of really interesting products, but the one for me that completely changed my outlook on life was the Palm Five. It was a pretty revolutionary handheld at the time. Myself and one other engineer basically engineered the whole product. That opportunity to see something that I had worked on, on the shelves, in the stores, in people's hands, Completely blew my mind. And on top of that, it was the first time where I had worked with a woman CEO of a startup company. And so, you know, my, my head basically was like, okay, I love what I'm doing, but I love what she's doing. I want to figure out how to go do that. So that started my journey to a business school and it was really Stanford or bust because I wanted to stay in the startup ecosystem. They let me back in. I had a really wonderful time at Stanford learning how to come, Out of my shell and network and not be just the geeky engineer. And in my second year of business school, I saw John Doerr grabbing a newspaper and, and I had to bolster all of my courage because I was quite shy at the time. And I walked up to him and I said, hi, my name's Trey. And I just got done helping ship the Palm five. And I really want to find a company o…

AI assessment note: “In my second year of business school, I saw John Doerr grabbing a newspaper”

Q Were there any challenges or surprises to the raise?

A Yeah, I didn't know what to expect, so it was my first time doing this from scratch. I had heard a lot of horror stories about how much people didn't like fundraising, and so I'd say one surprising kind of upside was that we actually had a really enjoyable time. I thoroughly loved meeting the LPs and the incredible institutions that they're working on behalf of, and so that was wonderful, and you know, and it's a great time that, you know, Neil and I will always look back on, on, you know, the time we spent fundraising as We spent a ton of time together. We traveled around together. We really bonded, and so, you know, I actually look back on it with quite fond memories, and I'm super proud, ultimately, of the investor base that we were able to build.

AI assessment note: “one surprising kind of upside was that we actually had a really enjoyable time”

Q Were there any challenges or surprises to the raise?

A Yeah, I didn't know what to expect, so it was my first time doing this from scratch. I had heard a lot of horror stories about how much people didn't like fundraising, and so I'd say one surprising kind of upside was that we actually had a really enjoyable time. I thoroughly loved meeting the LPs and the incredible institutions that they're working on behalf of, and so that was wonderful, and you know, and it's a great time that, you know, Neil and I will always look back on, on, you know, the time we spent fundraising as We spent a ton of time together. We traveled around together. We really bonded, and so, you know, I actually look back on it with quite fond memories, and I'm super proud, ultimately, of the investor base that we were able to build.

AI assessment note: “one surprising kind of upside was that we actually had a really enjoyable time”

Q I mean, just an incredible opportunity. But I would love to start on kind of that and the learnings. You mentioned, obviously, that the entrance to Kleiner with you as an entrepreneur in residence. What were the big learnings from the time that you spent there as your first job in VC, and how has that translated to how you think about the starting and running of DeFi?

A Great question. So, I ended up staying at Kleiner for 11 years, and over that time, worked with 40 different companies, and importantly, I got to work with a number of really incredible investors. So, You know, a lot of folks will say that investing is very much an apprenticeship job. Investors have different styles. John Doar's style was very different from the node coastless style. And those, they were both partners at Kleiner when I first started there. So I got to shadow John and some board meetings. I, you know, got to shadow of a node. There were other incredible partners like Kevin Compton, who I worked really closely with. And so I just really sought out chances to interact with each of these different folks and understand how Their styles and how they work with entrepreneurs and the things they value. And so that was really helpful in at least positioning for me. How do they connect with the entrepreneur? How do they add value in a board meeting? And then also just their frameworks for what makes a great investment. I would say another thing that I did learn over my time there was, you know, the firm grew from what was a small early stage venture firm to a firm that had a lot of different Investing groups, a growth group, a smaller group. There was a technology group. There was a green tech group. And so one of the learnings for myself was that I wasn't so sure that ve…

AI assessment note: “one of the learnings for myself was that I wasn't so sure that venture scaled”

Q but not really. So often I feel very strongly about something in the ecosystem and, you know, generally promoting and kind of encouraging diversity. But I always worry about being that patronizing middle class white guy who I always kind of hate that image of them espousing that. How does one look to actively encourage change without seeming like, oh, it's that kind of middle class white guy promoting it?

A Do you know what I mean? No, no, I get it. And I do think it's important. I mean, things aren't going to change unless middle class white guys are part of what's helping change what we're doing. And I think, you know, I've been spending a lot of time, especially with my peers in the industry, other than You know, investing in more women and hiring women into more venture firms. What else can we do? Well, it can be as simple as are you meeting with women? Are you networking with your fellow women in the industry to understand what's in their portfolio? How can you work together? Building boards is a great chance to add diversity into the board and into these companies. And so I do think there are a number of pretty simple things like that, that with a little bit of effort can make a big difference.

AI assessment note: “Well, it can be as simple as are you meeting with women? Are you networking”

Q Yeah, no, absolutely. I couldn't agree more. And speaking of Steve, Steve tells me that one of your greatest strengths is to learn new skills and fast. So what does the learning process and framework look like?

A Yeah, no, one of the things that I've always tried to challenge myself with learning, often it's been a new sport, and I sort of switch that up, so every year or two, I will say, hey, I want to go learn how to do kite surfing or whitewater kayaking or rock climbing, and what's been great about that is that it sort of keeps you in a state of, you know, you're incredibly humbled and grounded by this, but it's a lot of trial and error as you figure out how to get better at, you know, these Hard things that put you in a position of, you know, being a little scared, but having to put yourself out there. And I always compare it. It is exactly the same as being an entrepreneur. You know, you're putting yourself out there. It's scary. You're failing, you're iterating, and then hopefully you break through. And so that's my kind of quick and dirty way to sort of keep that front and center in my mind and also stay in shape.

AI assessment note: “failing, you're iterating, and then hopefully you break through.”

Q You mentioned that kind of the unique combination of your skills. I'm really interested to discuss kind of the establishing of the new fund and really broken into two different challenges being fundraising and then the infrastructure. In terms of the raise itself, what were some of the core challenges and maybe surprises for you being the first fund you've raised kind of on your own, so to speak?

A So during my time at Kleiner, I had a very limited exposure to the LP base, and the LP base didn't really turn Turnover. Kleiner didn't exactly do fundraising in the traditional terms. And so part of our teamwork, you know, and I think that was really important is Neil actively helped his previous firm fundraise. And so I'm super grateful to the fact that partnering with Neil, he brought along a handful of incredible LPs that absolutely wanted to work with Neil in his next thing. And so, you know, when we first got started fundraising, I We pitched what we were doing to those folks who knew Neil, and they liked it. They got quite excited by what we were doing, and once you have some high-quality venture LPs on board, they then tell their friends, and that builds momentum and snowballs, and so, just like when companies are fundraising, it always helps once you've got a great firm that's on board, so.

AI assessment note: “during my time at Kleiner, I had a very limited exposure to the LP base”

Q You mentioned that kind of the unique combination of your skills. I'm really interested to discuss kind of the establishing of the new fund and really broken into two different challenges being fundraising and then the infrastructure. In terms of the raise itself, what were some of the core challenges and maybe surprises for you being the first fund you've raised kind of on your own, so to speak?

A So during my time at Kleiner, I had a very limited exposure to the LP base, and the LP base didn't really turn Turnover. Kleiner didn't exactly do fundraising in the traditional terms. And so part of our teamwork, you know, and I think that was really important is Neil actively helped his previous firm fundraise. And so I'm super grateful to the fact that partnering with Neil, he brought along a handful of incredible LPs that absolutely wanted to work with Neil in his next thing. And so, you know, when we first got started fundraising, I We pitched what we were doing to those folks who knew Neil, and they liked it. They got quite excited by what we were doing, and once you have some high-quality venture LPs on board, they then tell their friends, and that builds momentum and snowballs, and so, just like when companies are fundraising, it always helps once you've got a great firm that's on board, so.

AI assessment note: “during my time at Kleiner, I had a very limited exposure to the LP base”