The Exchanges

Q Can I ask, what is the right nugget for, as you said, founder market fit? Are there right and wrong reasons? What turns you on off?

A To me, it's real clear. Um, it's, it's about understanding how your product is going to intersect with people, right? And it's having a vision around that, And having conviction around that vision, and that vision actually stacking up and feeling rational when they walk you through it. So I'll give you, I can give you some examples here. Blue bottle coffee is a bit of an atypical one, um, for a tech investor to be doing, but it turns out that this is going to be, you know, one of the hallmark companies in our portfolio. And what really struck me about my conversation with James Freeman was that he wasn't just starting a coffee shop. It was around kind of his vision of what coffee should be for people. So starting with procurement, where do you get the beans from? Small lot farmers that are adhering to the strictest standards of organic farming or sustainability practices, sourcing those beans of certain, you know, style of roasting, and then a point of view around freshness. That blue bottle, the beans, we only hold them for 10 days after roasting, and if they don't sell, then we pull them off the shelf and we dump them. So he had all kinds of principles around the source product, and then he had principles and a vision around what his cafe, how, how would, would kind of be in that cafe. So there's no wifi. There's no plugs. These are things that counterintuitive, right? If you…

AI assessment note: “it's about understanding how your product is going to intersect with people”

Q I'm very intrigued then to our straight off the bat. How have you seen the investment thesis and approach change from making those initial investments back in those early days to today, 2017 with true?

A Oh, tremendously. I think, um, in the very beginning, I tried to be super smart. I tried to take a step back and I said like, where's the market going? How's the world changing? And I did okay because I think I had instinctively a good nose for For identifying smart people that were up to something interesting, but as I've evolved and I kind of get to this phase of my career, I realized that I really simply follow my instincts around an entrepreneur. I'm not thesis driven at all. I'm not trying to predict where the market is going or where the next great ideas are. What I'm paying attention to is where the smart entrepreneurs, the people like Kevin Rose, Before he joined us, or a Matt Mullenweg, or a Bree Pettis, or a Laura Bilizarian. These type of entrepreneurs, they have a sense of where the market's headed, and then the real kind of intersection for me is, why does it matter to them? And I spent probably a disproportionate amount of time, I think maybe more time than any other investor, in digging in on that basic premise for why are they after this? Why do they need To offer a new coffee company, or a new watch company, or whatever it is. The nuggets of the answers are always there.

AI assessment note: “I'm not thesis driven at all. I'm not trying to predict where the market is going”

Q Can I ask, what is the right nugget for, as you said, founder market fit? Are there right and wrong reasons? What turns you on off?

A To me, it's real clear. Um, it's, it's about understanding how your product is going to intersect with people, right? And it's having a vision around that, And having conviction around that vision, and that vision actually stacking up and feeling rational when they walk you through it. So I'll give you, I can give you some examples here. Blue bottle coffee is a bit of an atypical one, um, for a tech investor to be doing, but it turns out that this is going to be, you know, one of the hallmark companies in our portfolio. And what really struck me about my conversation with James Freeman was that he wasn't just starting a coffee shop. It was around kind of his vision of what coffee should be for people. So starting with procurement, where do you get the beans from? Small lot farmers that are adhering to the strictest standards of organic farming or sustainability practices, sourcing those beans of certain, you know, style of roasting, and then a point of view around freshness. That blue bottle, the beans, we only hold them for 10 days after roasting, and if they don't sell, then we pull them off the shelf and we dump them. So he had all kinds of principles around the source product, and then he had principles and a vision around what his cafe, how, how would, would kind of be in that cafe. So there's no wifi. There's no plugs. These are things that counterintuitive, right? If you…

AI assessment note: “it's about understanding how your product is going to intersect with people”

Q I'd love to get started this day by discussing a little about you and how you made your way into what I call the wonderful world of venture capital. What was your start? How did you make your way in?

A So I moved here from Jakarta, Indonesia, where I was running mergers and acquisitions and corp dev for BSN, which became Group Denon, a big CPG firm based out of Paris in France. And I moved here in 1997, I guess towards the end of 96, beginning of 97, and I wanted to take a bit of a break. I had been traveling quite a bit, and I remember trying to take pulse of what was happening in the Bay Area, and it was so clear that tech was the motor that was, you know, revving up. And so, you know, I just started networking and spending a little bit of time around that, and ended up making some investments. Some of those investments turned out to be really, really excellent. And I was on my way.

AI assessment note: “ended up making some investments. Some of those investments turned out to be really, really excellent.”

Q I'm very intrigued then to our straight off the bat. How have you seen the investment thesis and approach change from making those initial investments back in those early days to today, 2017 with true?

A Oh, tremendously. I think, um, in the very beginning, I tried to be super smart. I tried to take a step back and I said like, where's the market going? How's the world changing? And I did okay because I think I had instinctively a good nose for For identifying smart people that were up to something interesting, but as I've evolved and I kind of get to this phase of my career, I realized that I really simply follow my instincts around an entrepreneur. I'm not thesis driven at all. I'm not trying to predict where the market is going or where the next great ideas are. What I'm paying attention to is where the smart entrepreneurs, the people like Kevin Rose, Before he joined us, or a Matt Mullenweg, or a Bree Pettis, or a Laura Bilizarian. These type of entrepreneurs, they have a sense of where the market's headed, and then the real kind of intersection for me is, why does it matter to them? And I spent probably a disproportionate amount of time, I think maybe more time than any other investor, in digging in on that basic premise for why are they after this? Why do they need To offer a new coffee company, or a new watch company, or whatever it is. The nuggets of the answers are always there.

AI assessment note: “I realized that I really simply follow my instincts around an entrepreneur.”

Q What's the worst advice that you often hear given out in our circles and our industry?

A Oh, especially for Mont Entrepreneurs to entrepreneurs. Go get a high valuation. I think it's one of the most detrimental things that happens for these young entrepreneurs. They think it's a game. And the, the, the answer is not about just because you can get away with it. Um, you know, you should go get a high valuation. You should figure out what the smart valuation is. That's going to help you to build a foundation for your company. My father always said this great quote, don't be careful that you might get what you ask for. And, um, I think both founders and VCs have to pay attention to that, you know, because when the pendulum swings in the favor of the VC, we can be overly aggressive on valuations again, or structures, and we just have to be really careful, uh, not to do that. The, the, the goal was to set the company up to be successful, set the founder and the management team up to be successful.

AI assessment note: “Go get a high valuation. I think it's one of the most detrimental things”

Q I'd love to get started this day by discussing a little about you and how you made your way into what I call the wonderful world of venture capital. What was your start? How did you make your way in?

A So I moved here from Jakarta, Indonesia, where I was running mergers and acquisitions and corp dev for BSN, which became Group Denon, a big CPG firm based out of Paris in France. And I moved here in 1997, I guess towards the end of 96, beginning of 97, and I wanted to take a bit of a break. I had been traveling quite a bit, and I remember trying to take pulse of what was happening in the Bay Area, and it was so clear that tech was the motor that was, you know, revving up. And so, you know, I just started networking and spending a little bit of time around that, and ended up making some investments. Some of those investments turned out to be really, really excellent. And I was on my way.

AI assessment note: “I just started networking... and ended up making some investments.”

Q lot of Over 1500 hours, according to my research, which is potentially sketchy. Potentially very sketchy. Let's just go with that. With that in mind, you've said before that being a great board member is about seeing the different inflection points and changing with them. I'm interested then to hear, how have you seen yourself develop as a board member, and what have been the inflection points in your learning?

A Oh yeah, I've learned quite a bit. You know, you often learn through failure, and I definitely have had a couple of working environments where afterwards, I kind of scratched my head, and I said, what happened there? Where did this founder and I, or this management team and I, get so off course with each other? Because I pride myself on having a fairly, like, founder-aligned philosophy, and you know, and yet, Even I, you know, I've, I've failed, you know, in certain situations. I had one in particular with a founder where I worked incredibly hard to get them, help them to capitalize the company on several occasions. I, I showed up, I was thoughtful in board meetings. I was, you know, I felt like I was being smart and I was proactive and the champion of the company. And, and, you know, I got to the end and the founder and I had a bit of a falling out. And at first I was kind of like, How dare they? Um, well, a little bit, you know, just a little bit that, but then, you know, this person, you know, in a very thoughtful and proactive way said, listen, you failed me and you forgot that you never asked me how I was doing. You never taught me really how to be a CEO.

AI assessment note: “You know, you often learn through failure, and I definitely have had a couple”

Q intersection into my next question, which was around something that you've said to me before, and it's in terms of straddling the role of founder and VC. So talk to me about this. How do you look to straddle the role of founder and VC effectively first? And then second, is it a challenge to remain a passive investor in quotation marks, so to speak, offering advice with this straddling?

A Yes. So straddling is, is a bit difficult for those who don't know my background. I'm both a An active founder of About.me. I founded a company called Sphere previously, and I'm also a partner at TrueVentures, so there are two roles that are very symbiotic, but, you know, very different, and the demands are very different. So, you know, the straddling, I think, has been beneficial to me, at least in the beginning stages of each of these companies that I founded. By being on board, such as WordPress, or working with people like Heat and Shaw, you know, you learn a lot. In those board meetings, you learn a lot about conversion marketing. You learn a lot about product development, about management styles, team issues. You just learn a tremendous amount. It's a great education that if you're smart, you'll go and you'll apply it to your own company, which I've tried to do. Conversely, on the other side of it, when you're a venture capitalist and you are also an active founder, it gives you a certain kind of cache and a certain credibility that I think that really resonates with With founders, I have a tremendous amount of empathy, naturally, because I am a founder at heart, right, and I am active as a founder, and so I think there's just a sensitivity to their issues and struggles, which is, you know, helpful in a lot of times. The other thing, too, is just deal sourcing. When you'r…

AI assessment note: “straddling, I think, has been beneficial to me... there are two roles that are very symbiotic”

Q Did you change as a result of that conversation?

A I did, absolutely, because I think the first and most important thing you do when you show up at a board meeting, or you're on a call with a founder, is you stop, and you pause, and you say, hey, wait, how are you? How's your family doing? How are you doing? You know, you got to do check-in on their income. Things that they're going to be embarrassed to talk to you about, Founders have a tendency to underpay themselves. They're overstressed. They're overstretched. Um, it gets more complicated if they have additional family obligations and desires. So, you know, it's like all that stuff is incredibly human, and the EQ portion of our business is probably the most important thing that we always have to pay attention to. And it goes back to my conversation, what we were just talking about where I failed, was I'd never ask that person, you know, like I had the cordial, Hey, how you doing? But like, we just moved on to business. It's very different, you know, to make a, um, kind of a polite statement versus actually to be interested. How are you? Like, what's going on? Like, no, are you traveling? Are you getting, are you taking some time off? Like, what are you doing? Are your kids, you know, like really spending quality time assessing that and noting it in your head. That's the most important thing you can do in the beginning of these companies for these founders.

AI assessment note: “I did, absolutely, because I think the first and most important thing”

Q lot of Over 1500 hours, according to my research, which is potentially sketchy. Potentially very sketchy. Let's just go with that. With that in mind, you've said before that being a great board member is about seeing the different inflection points and changing with them. I'm interested then to hear, how have you seen yourself develop as a board member, and what have been the inflection points in your learning?

A Oh yeah, I've learned quite a bit. You know, you often learn through failure, and I definitely have had a couple of working environments where afterwards, I kind of scratched my head, and I said, what happened there? Where did this founder and I, or this management team and I, get so off course with each other? Because I pride myself on having a fairly, like, founder-aligned philosophy, and you know, and yet, Even I, you know, I've, I've failed, you know, in certain situations. I had one in particular with a founder where I worked incredibly hard to get them, help them to capitalize the company on several occasions. I, I showed up, I was thoughtful in board meetings. I was, you know, I felt like I was being smart and I was proactive and the champion of the company. And, and, you know, I got to the end and the founder and I had a bit of a falling out. And at first I was kind of like, How dare they? Um, well, a little bit, you know, just a little bit that, but then, you know, this person, you know, in a very thoughtful and proactive way said, listen, you failed me and you forgot that you never asked me how I was doing. You never taught me really how to be a CEO.

AI assessment note: “listen, you failed me and you forgot that you never asked me how I was doing”

Q intersection into my next question, which was around something that you've said to me before, and it's in terms of straddling the role of founder and VC. So talk to me about this. How do you look to straddle the role of founder and VC effectively first? And then second, is it a challenge to remain a passive investor in quotation marks, so to speak, offering advice with this straddling?

A Yes. So straddling is, is a bit difficult for those who don't know my background. I'm both a An active founder of About.me. I founded a company called Sphere previously, and I'm also a partner at TrueVentures, so there are two roles that are very symbiotic, but, you know, very different, and the demands are very different. So, you know, the straddling, I think, has been beneficial to me, at least in the beginning stages of each of these companies that I founded. By being on board, such as WordPress, or working with people like Heat and Shaw, you know, you learn a lot. In those board meetings, you learn a lot about conversion marketing. You learn a lot about product development, about management styles, team issues. You just learn a tremendous amount. It's a great education that if you're smart, you'll go and you'll apply it to your own company, which I've tried to do. Conversely, on the other side of it, when you're a venture capitalist and you are also an active founder, it gives you a certain kind of cache and a certain credibility that I think that really resonates with With founders, I have a tremendous amount of empathy, naturally, because I am a founder at heart, right, and I am active as a founder, and so I think there's just a sensitivity to their issues and struggles, which is, you know, helpful in a lot of times. The other thing, too, is just deal sourcing. When you'r…

AI assessment note: “the straddling, I think, has been beneficial to me, at least in the beginning stages”

Q Okay, absolutely. That was fantastic. The biggest mentor and how it came about?

A I would have to say my partners, and I think I can't single one of them, but the, the, the partnership I have is such a mentorship for me. It's a unique cast of characters, and there's such a high EQ amongst them, um, that it's just taught me a lot about Pumping the brakes and playing to what I think is one of my strengths, and that is trying to be quite human, but I'm also very goal-oriented, and I'm very driven. It takes those things to be able to do, both being a founder and being a partner, and sometimes they would get in the way of that human aspect, and so they've been an amazing mentor for me as a group.

AI assessment note: “I would have to say my partners, and I think I can't single one”