The Exchanges

Q What do I do if I don't know who I really am then?

A Yeah, talk to your friends. You can go through a simple little exercise, which is find a friend who loves you and you love them. Somebody who at three o'clock in the morning you would take their call and you know that they would take yours. Do not do this with family. Do not do this with a girlfriend, boyfriend, or spouse. Those relationships are too close. Do this with a best friend and ask them the simple question. Why are we friends? And they're gonna look at you like you're crazy because you're asking them to put into words a feeling, which is very hard for human beings to do. They're going to probably say, I don't know. Why are you asking me this? And then you stop asking why, and you start asking what, because it elicits rational, rational answers. And you say, come on, come on. What specifically is it about me that I know that you would be there for me no matter what? And they'll hem and haw, and you can't help them. You can't let anybody else help them. You have to let them sort of struggle through the process. And they'll start describing you. I don't know. You're smart. You're funny. I trust you. And you have to play devil's advocate. Great. That's the definition of a friend. You have that with lots of people. What specifically is it about me that I know you would be there for me no matter what? And again, they're going to go through this a few rounds and eventually t…

AI assessment note: “talk to your friends. You can go through a simple little exercise”

Q But a lot of comments ahead of us doing this conversation, we had thousands of comments, and a lot of people asked a simple question of, What do I do if I don't know who I really am then?

A Yeah, talk to your friends. You can go through a simple little exercise, which is find a friend who loves you and you love them. You know, um, somebody who at three o'clock in the morning you would take their call and you know that they would take yours. Do not do this with family. Do not do this with, um, uh, a girlfriend, boyfriend, or spouse. Those relationships are too close. Do this with the best friend and ask them the simple question. Why are we friends? And they're gonna look at you like you're crazy. Because you're asking them to put into words a feeling, which is very hard for human beings to do. So, um, they're gonna probably say, I don't know, why are you asking me this? And then you stop asking why, and you start asking what, because it elicits rational, rational answers, and you say, come on, come on, what specifically is it about me that I know that you would be there for me no matter what? And they'll hem and haw, and you can't help them, you can't let anybody else help them, you have to let them sort of struggle through the process, and they'll start describing you. I don't know, You're smart. You're funny. I trust you. And you have to play devil's advocate. Great. That's the definition of a friend. You have that with lots of people. What specifically is it about me that I know you would be there for me no matter what? And again, they're going to go through thi…

AI assessment note: “talk to your friends. You can go through a simple little exercise”

Q Can I ask, I spoke to Asaf before the show, who introduced us, and he said, you need to ask Simon, what do you want to be when you grow up? Which was a strange question, but I thought I would roll with it given he made the intro. What's the answer?

A I mean, as a little kid, I wanted to be an astronaut, and I went to space camp in Huntsville, Alabama at the age of 13. And, um, Um, I'm, I, you know, I like the idea, and then I like to be even being an aeronautical engineer, but, you know, I wasn't, that sort of didn't last very long, but, but, uh, and somebody asked me once, why did you want to be an astronaut? Which I'd never really thought about. And if I think, you know, if I go back and so the reason I wanted to be an astronaut is I wanted to be able to go to a place and look, have a perspective. I wanted a perspective of the world that most people don't have. And then I wanted to come down and tell people what I saw so they could be struck with the same wonder that I got to have. And then I sort of smiled when I gave the ads and realized I am an astronaut. You know, I try and see the world from a different perspective, and I try and report back what I see with the hope that people will see the perspective that I, that I see as well to help them see the world in a new way.

AI assessment note: “realized I am an astronaut. You know, I try and see the world”

Q I'm gonna try. That's on like, you know, speaking. The alternative is like receiving and listening. What does great listening mean? Because people are like, ah, it's about listening. I'm like, Craig, what does that mean? Like, there's different types of listening.

A Yeah, so, uh, active listening is not about hearing the words spoken, right? Like sometimes we're watching television and somebody's trying to talk to us, and they go, you're not listening to me, and you, and you repeat, and you repeat back everything you heard. You say, see, I am listening to you. No, you heard the words. Listening is making the other person feel heard. So the fact that you were watching television Even though you were taking in the words that were spoken, the other person didn't feel heard because you weren't looking them in the eye and paying them and being present while they were talking to you. So listening is the art of making other people feel heard. Validating the things they're saying, repeating back to them what you heard, saying it back to them in a different way. Let me, let me make sure that I hear this right and saying it back to them as you heard it, not just parroting back the language, looking them in the eye, not looking at your phone, not being distracted by other things around the room. And at the end, they will say, thank you for being present. Thank you for listening. Thank you for hearing me. I really appreciate it. So you, you haven't listened until somebody else has said that, you know, that you, that you've done so.

AI assessment note: “Listening is making the other person feel heard.”

Q is what we should do. How do you think about that switch from listening to problem solving? And I've heard you say, you know, when you've had friends that struggle, you just say, go on. Can you help me understand? Because I like to solve problems. I'm like, great, Simon, one, two, three. What do you advise people who like to do problem solving and what might be more beneficial?

A Well, what you like might not be what is necessary in that moment. Again, you're making it about you. And if somebody says to you, if somebody comes to you and says, I'm struggling, It really isn't about you. It's about them. So it doesn't matter if you like problem solving, they're asking to, for a safe space to feel heard. Um, now, if you, if they ask, what do you think, can you, what do you, what do you think I should do? Then by all means, or you can say, can I offer some suggestions or do you want me to just hold space? It's not, you don't get to determine that. Um, and so it's not that, um, offering solutions is never the right answer. It's that You have to, this is what, what active listening is, is, is it's a practice. You have to get good at it, you know, um, and it's a work of constant improvement, of learning the subtleties and the nuances, you know. I mean, we're social animals, and it's not always so easy to understand what people need in the time.

AI assessment note: “you can say, can I offer some suggestions or do you want me to just hold space?”

Q Can I ask, I spoke to Asaf before the show, who introduced us, and he said, you need to ask Simon, what do you want to be when you grow up? Which was a strange question, but I thought I would roll with it given he made the intro. What's the answer?

A I mean, as a little kid, I wanted to be an astronaut, and I went to space camp in Huntsville, Alabama at the age of 13. And, um, Um, I'm, I, you know, I like the idea, and then I like to be even being an aeronautical engineer, but, you know, I wasn't, that sort of didn't last very long, but, but, uh, and somebody asked me once, why did you want to be an astronaut? Which I'd never really thought about. And if I think, you know, if I go back and so the reason I wanted to be an astronaut is I wanted to be able to go to a place and look, have a perspective. I wanted a perspective of the world that most people don't have. And then I wanted to come down and tell people what I saw so they could be struck with the same wonder that I got to have. And then I sort of smiled when I gave the ads and realized I am an astronaut. You know, I try and see the world from a different perspective, and I try and report back what I see with the hope that people will see the perspective that I, that I see as well to help them see the world in a new way.

AI assessment note: “as a little kid, I wanted to be an astronaut”

Q How do you decide the decisions that can be made unilaterally versus not unilaterally? Like, I mean, it's in a relationship. The restaurant that you go to for dinner, not obviously you can decide.

A You'll find that out in the relationships. You'll find out that maybe your partner says from now on you make all relations, all decisions about restaurants. Right? I just don't care. You're the foodie. I like eating. You decide. Right? And that's fine. But that's, that came from communication. And my point is, it's not about, my point is not that you can't make decisions by yourself. My point is, is that, that there's communication before any of these decisions are made. And if there's a piece of communication that says, I want you to do this, and the same as in business partnerships, right? Look, I don't really care about hiring. You're like a genius at guessing personalities and understanding personalities. I'm an idiot when it comes to it. So you can make all the hiring decisions. I'll just, I'll agree with everybody you hire.

AI assessment note: “My point is, is that, that there's communication before any of these decisions are made.”

Q shared so much wisdom over the years, and one thing that kind of struck me when I was kind of thinking about this conversation was, was there a catalytic moment in the rise of Simon Sinek? Was it the TED Talk in 2008, 2009? Was it the second book? Was it the first book? What was that moment when actually the Simon Sinek brand really became so, so well known?

A Like so many things, I don't, I don't, there's not an answer to that question. That's like asking me when you started working out, when was the moment you got into shape? It's like, I don't know the answer to that question. Um, you know, you, there's a process that you follow and you find yourself in shape. You know, it's an evolution. It's not a, it's not a switch. Um, and so the same, the same is for my career. You know, there are, you know, I committed myself to a process, um, that I believed in and still believe in desperately. One is starting with why. Um, I believe desperately that if you, if both in your own mentality and the way you talk and communicate, um, you start with what you believe rather than what you do. Um, and the second thing is the law of diffusion of innovations, which is, um, all populations sift across the standard deviation, the bell curve. If you have high performers, you have low performers, and you have an average. Always, always, always. Regardless of the size of the population. And the law of diffusion tells us that the, the, the early adopters, um, are more likely to take a risk and try something new. Um, um, and you need to get a critical mass of those, 15 to 18%, in order to create a tipping point. Because the majority won't try something until someone else has tried it first. And most people, when they're trying to build a brand, or spread a t…

AI assessment note: “there's not an answer to that question... It's an evolution. It's not a switch.”

Q But a lot of comments ahead of us doing this conversation, we had thousands of comments, and a lot of people asked a simple question of, What do I do if I don't know who I really am then?

A Yeah, talk to your friends. You can go through a simple little exercise, which is find a friend who loves you and you love them. You know, um, somebody who at three o'clock in the morning you would take their call and you know that they would take yours. Do not do this with family. Do not do this with, um, uh, a girlfriend, boyfriend, or spouse. Those relationships are too close. Do this with the best friend and ask them the simple question. Why are we friends? And they're gonna look at you like you're crazy. Because you're asking them to put into words a feeling, which is very hard for human beings to do. So, um, they're gonna probably say, I don't know, why are you asking me this? And then you stop asking why, and you start asking what, because it elicits rational, rational answers, and you say, come on, come on, what specifically is it about me that I know that you would be there for me no matter what? And they'll hem and haw, and you can't help them, you can't let anybody else help them, you have to let them sort of struggle through the process, and they'll start describing you. I don't know, You're smart. You're funny. I trust you. And you have to play devil's advocate. Great. That's the definition of a friend. You have that with lots of people. What specifically is it about me that I know you would be there for me no matter what? And again, they're going to go through thi…

AI assessment note: “Yeah, talk to your friends. You can go through a simple little exercise”

Q What if you don't like it? What if you don't like what you hear back?

A It doesn't, it doesn't exist. It doesn't exist because, um, if you have an emotional reaction to what they say, if you get goosebumps or you well up, what they're telling you is who you are. Now, you may not always be acting as you should and acting as who you are. You know, you may not be living your why, um, but deep down inside when you are at your natural best, this is how you're showing up. And so it, it's not, it's not a question whether you like it or not. It is who you are. And what you'll find is it's, it's quite beautiful and empowering because you get to discover the reason people love you.

AI assessment note: “it's not a question whether you like it or not. It is who you are.”

Q I'm gonna try. That's on like, you know, speaking. The alternative is like receiving and listening. What does great listening mean? Because people are like, ah, it's about listening. I'm like, Craig, what does that mean? Like, there's different types of listening.

A Yeah, so, uh, active listening is not about hearing the words spoken, right? Like sometimes we're watching television and somebody's trying to talk to us, and they go, you're not listening to me, and you, and you repeat, and you repeat back everything you heard. You say, see, I am listening to you. No, you heard the words. Listening is making the other person feel heard. So the fact that you were watching television Even though you were taking in the words that were spoken, the other person didn't feel heard because you weren't looking them in the eye and paying them and being present while they were talking to you. So listening is the art of making other people feel heard. Validating the things they're saying, repeating back to them what you heard, saying it back to them in a different way. Let me, let me make sure that I hear this right and saying it back to them as you heard it, not just parroting back the language, looking them in the eye, not looking at your phone, not being distracted by other things around the room. And at the end, they will say, thank you for being present. Thank you for listening. Thank you for hearing me. I really appreciate it. So you, you haven't listened until somebody else has said that, you know, that you, that you've done so.

AI assessment note: “Listening is making the other person feel heard.”

Q is what we should do. How do you think about that switch from listening to problem solving? And I've heard you say, you know, when you've had friends that struggle, you just say, go on. Can you help me understand? Because I like to solve problems. I'm like, great, Simon, one, two, three. What do you advise people who like to do problem solving and what might be more beneficial?

A Well, what you like might not be what is necessary in that moment. Again, you're making it about you. And if somebody says to you, if somebody comes to you and says, I'm struggling, It really isn't about you. It's about them. So it doesn't matter if you like problem solving, they're asking to, for a safe space to feel heard. Um, now, if you, if they ask, what do you think, can you, what do you, what do you think I should do? Then by all means, or you can say, can I offer some suggestions or do you want me to just hold space? It's not, you don't get to determine that. Um, and so it's not that, um, offering solutions is never the right answer. It's that You have to, this is what, what active listening is, is, is it's a practice. You have to get good at it, you know, um, and it's a work of constant improvement, of learning the subtleties and the nuances, you know. I mean, we're social animals, and it's not always so easy to understand what people need in the time.

AI assessment note: “you can say, can I offer some suggestions or do you want me to just hold space?”

Q It's a super weird one. I've literally watched every interview of yours and listened to 99% of your talks that are online. What have you not talked about before or never been asked that you wish you had been?

A I mean, I mean, there's an infinite things, a number of things I haven't been talked about, that I've never talked about, and I don't think I've wished to be asked anything. You know, when I show up for something, it's not about me. You know, I always say to any interview that I give, you know, ask me the questions that your audience needs to hear. Like, you know your audience better than I do. Um, you, I hope, are here to serve them. Well, ask me the things you think they need to hear. Some of those things I've been asked before, and some of those things I haven't. And so I have no agenda. I'm not here to sell my stuff or promote my book or all that crap that a lot of people show up in these things for, you know, they come up, they come in to talk about themselves and push their products. No, no, I come with a giver's heart. You ask me the questions you think they need to hear, and some of those I've been asked before, and some of those I haven't.

AI assessment note: “I don't think I've wished to be asked anything. You know, when I show up”

Q We talked about trust. We talked about trust, listening, safe spaces. When you think about your own leadership style, you know, leading people today, what has changed most? Which elements have changed most?

A I've gotten much better at, uh, at delegating. Um, you know, uh, you know, when I'm under stress, I micromanage. Makes sense, right? And so I've, and I still sometimes have the bad habit of doing that. Um, when I'm under stress, or if I don't, I, I, or if I don't understand something, I ask a lot of questions, and sometimes it's taken as, or sometimes I come across as, sort of, that I don't, that I don't believe someone, I don't trust them, because I'm asking so many questions, like one after the other, after the other, after the other. And the reality is, is I just don't understand, or there's stress. I, I go into sort of like investigative mode, or interrogator mode. So I've had to learn to, to be aware of that, Um, also I'm much better at not micromanaging that when I ask somebody to get something done, I just assume that it's done, and you know, I'll find out if it's not. So learning to let go. Um, I'm a reactor, so if bad news comes in, I sort of like get really frustrated really quickly, and then that goes away, and I'm rational and normal, and so I've just had to learn to temper that as well, because other people don't know that I'm a reactor sometimes. If they know I'm a reactor, they'll ignore me for the first Three minutes. Will I vent, will I vent for a second or two, and then I'm fine.

AI assessment note: “I've gotten much better at, uh, at delegating.”

Q Especially in our industry and in technology, that seems to be the wrong thing we should have Impact with our technology. We should save the planet, save the planet, whatever it is. Is there ever a wrong why?

A So you're confusing a couple things there. Um, you're confusing, so a why is not a goal. A why is not an outcome. Making money is an output. Like, money is a result. Profit comes at the end of the equation, not at the beginning of it, right? Um, a why is an input. Um, it's, it's a, it's a, it's a motivation and a drive. Um, and so the question I would ask is why do you want to make money? Do you want to just roll around on it on your bed like Scrooge McDuck and throw money in the air? Is that what you want to do? Every night you want to sit and count the pennies in the bank account. Is that what you want to get your hits from? You know, there, there's a reason why. Um, and the reason why people who are driven solely to make money, um, are, uh, sometimes vilified, um, is because it is a, largely a selfish pursuit. And it's usually some sort of score or some sort of validation or some sort of selfish desire to live a certain lifestyle. Um, and I also equally don't believe in, you know, we're doing this to have an impact and change the world. That doesn't mean anything either. You know, um, my why is to inspire people to do the things that inspire them. That's why I get out of bed in the morning. Um, and I have a vision of the world that does not yet exist. I imagine a world in which the vast majority of people wake up every single morning inspired Feel safe wherever they are, and…

AI assessment note: “a why is not a goal. A why is not an outcome.”

Q And so my question to you is, what can one do to create environments of safety, personal or professional, where people aren't afraid to ask those questions?

A So because you, I mean, and you just said it, you're, you're, you're aware because you've been in those positions of what it feels like to be on that side. So relate to it, you know, um, um, if you're working with somebody who's supposed to know something, but maybe they don't, and they're lying, hiding, and faking because they don't want to be found out, right? Then, then if you're the, especially if you're in the position of leadership, you know, say, hey, listen, I've been in your position before where, you know, I said that I knew everything that I didn't, and I pretended I had answers that I didn't, Because I wanted to do right by my, my, my, my friend. I want to do right by my boss, whatever it was. And, and let me tell you, it got me nowhere. And I had to learn the hard way that when I just wasn't honest about what was wrong or what it was missing or what I didn't know, it eventually caught up with me. So even though it's uncomfortable, even though it's going to be difficult, and even though you probably don't want to do it, what I really hope Is it, if you don't know something, just ask me and I can tell you the answer. And that's much easier. So, and I, I've had this. I had, I had somebody who worked for me years ago who, um, um, couldn't, because her whole identity was based on, on her work. So if she did bad work or she screwed up on something, it was like her identi…

AI assessment note: “if you're in the position of leadership, you know, say, hey, listen”

Q You founded the Optimism Company. You are an optimist. What do you say to yourself when you're just down? Sometimes there's no reason, but you're just down.

A Yeah, it's okay. You know, I think we make a big mistake. You know, there's much conversation these days about mental health, and I don't like the term mental health because it sounds like a standard that if you don't have total health, you are mentally unhealthy. Um, which is not true and not fair. Um, I believe in mental fitness, right? Which is something you're constantly working on. Um, and if you're a, if you are a normal human being, you will have a range of emotions. Some of them will feel good, and some of them will not feel good. That makes you human. Um, I would be worried about anybody who gets stuck in any of those. So if you're only feeling sad, then yes, there's probably An intervention that's required of some sort. But if all you do is have euphoria and you have no negative emotions, that's equally as unhealthy. So if I have a down day, if I'm just sad, then I just label it. I'm sad today. And people are like, how are you feeling? I'm like, I'm sad today. Do you know why? I don't. I'm just sad today. It's okay. It's like a good human being has a range of emotions, and I hope to feel all of them. Um.

AI assessment note: “if I'm just sad, then I just label it. I'm sad today.”

Q We talked about trust. We talked about trust, listening, safe spaces. When you think about your own leadership style, you know, leading people today, what has changed most? Which elements have changed most?

A I've gotten much better at, uh, at delegating. Um, you know, uh, you know, when I'm under stress, I micromanage. Makes sense, right? And so I've, and I still sometimes have the bad habit of doing that. Um, when I'm under stress, or if I don't, I, I, or if I don't understand something, I ask a lot of questions, and sometimes it's taken as, or sometimes I come across as, sort of, that I don't, that I don't believe someone, I don't trust them, because I'm asking so many questions, like one after the other, after the other, after the other. And the reality is, is I just don't understand, or there's stress. I, I go into sort of like investigative mode, or interrogator mode. So I've had to learn to, to be aware of that, Um, also I'm much better at not micromanaging that when I ask somebody to get something done, I just assume that it's done, and you know, I'll find out if it's not. So learning to let go. Um, I'm a reactor, so if bad news comes in, I sort of like get really frustrated really quickly, and then that goes away, and I'm rational and normal, and so I've just had to learn to temper that as well, because other people don't know that I'm a reactor sometimes. If they know I'm a reactor, they'll ignore me for the first Three minutes. Will I vent, will I vent for a second or two, and then I'm fine.

AI assessment note: “I've gotten much better at, uh, at delegating.”

Q If you apply, like, another why to that, why do you want to inspire people with wonder and awe on a thing that they haven't seen? Is it because you love to delight people? Is it because you love to educate people?

A Like, I think it's just ingrained. You know, I, I, um, I believe in sharing. You know, I, I, I think it's, I think it's selfish not to share. There are people who, when they find something magical, they want to hoard it and hide it. You know, if they figure something out, they don't want to tell anybody for, you know, because they believe that it gives them some sort of, you know, upper hand or some sort of advantage in life or at work. And I like sharing. You know, I, I like, if I see something, I want to share it with people. If I discover something, I want to tell people about it. Um, I just think it's a, it's a nice way to live, live a life. And I, and I think everybody should do the same. You know, um, you know, sharing your feelings with your loved ones, you know, sharing your ideas with the people you work with. Um, uh, all those things matter. You know, there's an entire section of the bookshop called self-help, and there's no section in the bookshop called help others. We've, we've over, we've overdone it. On taking, and, and hoarding, and being self-involved, and I think we could, we could, our society could do with a little more balance, you know, a little more giving to, to, to manage all the taking.

AI assessment note: “I think it's just ingrained. You know, I, I, um, I believe in sharing.”

Q Yeah. Do you start relationships with full trust, and it's there to be, you know, lost, or actually incremental, and it's there to be gained over time?

A Well, I mean, you know, trust or, there's no, you can't, you can't start with deep, meaningful, you know, from day one. That doesn't exist, and that would be, if you just even think evolutionarily, that would be really dangerous, right? Um, but I do believe in starting with a basic level of trust, and I know this from leaders, you know, great leaders never say to their team, prove to me why I should trust you. It's the opposite. Great leaders have to earn the trust from their teams, um, because the leader's supposed to be the provider and protector for the team, right? So, The team has to know, can we, can we trust this person? They're gonna look after us. They're gonna stab us in the back for their own promotion. I, you know, to, you know, I trust very quickly, and obviously I've been burned a couple times, but I'd, I'd rather be burned a couple times, um, and trust too quickly than trust too slowly, and sort of, um, mess it up, and never earn trust, because that's pretty lonely. There's no right or wrong, I think, you know, it's a scale, and like, you know, and people who trust a little slower, I think, is just as healthy, but you have to, there, at some point, I think, You know, coming in with a little bit of like, I, I'd like to trust this person, being a little bit hopeful about it. Um, but there's, but yeah, trust is like a dance. I mean, you, you, it gets deeper and deep…

AI assessment note: “I do believe in starting with a basic level of trust”

Q Do you think it's missing in their relationship or in themselves?

A Well, I mean, all of the above, right? But, but, That sounds like an opportunity for communication. Now it hurts when someone cheats, obviously, and there are different ways in which people cheat, some which are unforgivable, you know, some of which are forgivable. You know, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's not just the cheating, it's the lying and the deceiving and, you know, that goes with it. Um, and, um, uh, you know, if, if the relationship is broken, Um, uh, and somebody seeks solace from someone else, then that's an evaluation for the relationship you have and whether it's worth clinging onto, you know. But I think usually when that happens, it's a sign that there's been a total breakdown in communication, obviously a total breakdown in trust. And that doesn't mean that the relationship should or shouldn't survive. That's for the couple to decide. But generally, I believe it's a red flag that means that we should probably evaluate what's happened, or maybe it's too late. But, um, what I find very, you know, people who, who, who usually stray from the relationship is because they're either feeling something, they're feeling something in themselves or in their relationship that they're not telling their partner about, and that's really selfish because relationships are, should be an act of co-creation. You know, my, my, my girlfriend and I, you know, we sort of have this, it s…

AI assessment note: “all of the above, right?”

Q How do you decide the decisions that can be made unilaterally versus not unilaterally? Like, I mean, it's in a relationship. The restaurant that you go to for dinner, not obviously you can decide.

A You'll find that out in the relationships. You'll find out that maybe your partner says from now on you make all relations, all decisions about restaurants. Right? I just don't care. You're the foodie. I like eating. You decide. Right? And that's fine. But that's, that came from communication. And my point is, it's not about, my point is not that you can't make decisions by yourself. My point is, is that, that there's communication before any of these decisions are made. And if there's a piece of communication that says, I want you to do this, and the same as in business partnerships, right? Look, I don't really care about hiring. You're like a genius at guessing personalities and understanding personalities. I'm an idiot when it comes to it. So you can make all the hiring decisions. I'll just, I'll agree with everybody you hire.

AI assessment note: “there's communication before any of these decisions are made”

Q Yeah. Do you start relationships with full trust, and it's there to be, you know, lost, or actually incremental, and it's there to be gained over time?

A Well, I mean, you know, trust or, there's no, you can't, you can't start with deep, meaningful, you know, from day one. That doesn't exist, and that would be, if you just even think evolutionarily, that would be really dangerous, right? Um, but I do believe in starting with a basic level of trust, and I know this from leaders, you know, great leaders never say to their team, prove to me why I should trust you. It's the opposite. Great leaders have to earn the trust from their teams, um, because the leader's supposed to be the provider and protector for the team, right? So, The team has to know, can we, can we trust this person? They're gonna look after us. They're gonna stab us in the back for their own promotion. I, you know, to, you know, I trust very quickly, and obviously I've been burned a couple times, but I'd, I'd rather be burned a couple times, um, and trust too quickly than trust too slowly, and sort of, um, mess it up, and never earn trust, because that's pretty lonely. There's no right or wrong, I think, you know, it's a scale, and like, you know, and people who trust a little slower, I think, is just as healthy, but you have to, there, at some point, I think, You know, coming in with a little bit of like, I, I'd like to trust this person, being a little bit hopeful about it. Um, but there's, but yeah, trust is like a dance. I mean, you, you, it gets deeper and deep…

AI assessment note: “you can't start with deep, meaningful... but I do believe in starting with a basic”

Q And so my question to you is, what can one do to create environments of safety, personal or professional, where people aren't afraid to ask those questions?

A So because you, I mean, and you just said it, you're, you're, you're aware because you've been in those positions of what it feels like to be on that side. So relate to it, you know, um, um, if you're working with somebody who's supposed to know something, but maybe they don't, and they're lying, hiding, and faking because they don't want to be found out, right? Then, then if you're the, especially if you're in the position of leadership, you know, say, hey, listen, I've been in your position before where, you know, I said that I knew everything that I didn't, and I pretended I had answers that I didn't, Because I wanted to do right by my, my, my, my friend. I want to do right by my boss, whatever it was. And, and let me tell you, it got me nowhere. And I had to learn the hard way that when I just wasn't honest about what was wrong or what it was missing or what I didn't know, it eventually caught up with me. So even though it's uncomfortable, even though it's going to be difficult, and even though you probably don't want to do it, what I really hope Is it, if you don't know something, just ask me and I can tell you the answer. And that's much easier. So, and I, I've had this. I had, I had somebody who worked for me years ago who, um, um, couldn't, because her whole identity was based on, on her work. So if she did bad work or she screwed up on something, it was like her identi…

AI assessment note: “say, hey, listen, I've been in your position before where, you know, I said”

Q Did getting burnt change your mindset? I, I've been burnt before too, and it really made me a lot more visceral in how I am with trust. And I, I don't trust people period until they prove something and then it's like, but I used to be a lot more trusting.

A Well, think about that, right? You said, I don't trust people until they prove. That means you're always You're showing up with like a checklist and you're evaluating them like they're a scientific study, right? Well, people can feel that. And so they're probably not going to put their, they're not going to put their walls down either. And what you're communicating is, um, I don't trust you, which means they're not going to trust you back. I mean, you'll have a hard time earning trust if you don't trust people. It's not a one way street. Trust is a two way street. So if you show up distant and cold and untrustworthy for whatever You've been burned in the past. Well, you're gonna have a really hard time getting trust back also. So you think you're protecting yourself and the great irony is you're putting yourself in a little box, a very lonely little box. You know, that's what happens when you build yourself, when you build walls around yourself to protect yourself, you end up in a little, in a little dungeon, a little prison. So, you know, yes, I've been burned and yes, I got cynical and yes, I had to learn to break those walls back down again. And yes, I got burned and went back up and I learned to pull them back down again. But you know, I, I tried very hard not to Keep reinforcing the walls every time, you know, things went a little sideways or things got a little uncomforta…

AI assessment note: “yes, I got cynical and yes, I had to learn to break those walls”

Q It's a super weird one. I've literally watched every interview of yours and listened to 99% of your talks that are online. What have you not talked about before or never been asked that you wish you had been?

A I mean, I mean, there's an infinite things, a number of things I haven't been talked about, that I've never talked about, and I don't think I've wished to be asked anything. You know, when I show up for something, it's not about me. You know, I always say to any interview that I give, you know, ask me the questions that your audience needs to hear. Like, you know your audience better than I do. Um, you, I hope, are here to serve them. Well, ask me the things you think they need to hear. Some of those things I've been asked before, and some of those things I haven't. And so I have no agenda. I'm not here to sell my stuff or promote my book or all that crap that a lot of people show up in these things for, you know, they come up, they come in to talk about themselves and push their products. No, no, I come with a giver's heart. You ask me the questions you think they need to hear, and some of those I've been asked before, and some of those I haven't.

AI assessment note: “I don't think I've wished to be asked anything.”

Q What if you don't like it? What if you don't like what you hear back?

A It doesn't, it doesn't exist. It doesn't exist because, um, if you have an emotional reaction to what they say, if you get goosebumps or you well up, what they're telling you is who you are. Now, you may not always be acting as you should and acting as who you are. You know, you may not be living your why, um, but deep down inside when you are at your natural best, this is how you're showing up. And so it, it's not, it's not a question whether you like it or not. It is who you are. And what you'll find is it's, it's quite beautiful and empowering because you get to discover the reason people love you.

AI assessment note: “it's not a question whether you like it or not. It is who you are.”

Q and you've got a lot more grounding in that personality, and I'm like, well, one, if you don't change, actually, that's irrelevant, And two, I kind of think we're always changing. Just because you hit 40 doesn't mean you're not going to change personality, whatever that is. How do you feel about that statement of wait until you're 40 till you get married, because then you know who you are?

A I don't, yeah, I mean, I don't think it's, I think any kind of dogma is, is unhealthy. You know, people telling us when we should and shouldn't do something based on their experience, not ours. Um, um, guidance is helpful. Advice is helpful, but do or don'ts. I mean, I don't know about that. But, uh, the, the, the fact of the matter is our why, the core of who you are, is, is, is done. It's set. The question is, are you living to that core? Are you, are you in balance? Um, are you saying and doing the things you actually believe? Are you operating based on your values? You know, when, when I talk about why, how, and what, it's all three pieces that matter. It's not just knowing your why, it's also how do you operate and what are you doing, that those three pieces need to be completely in balance. Um, and so of course you're in constant improvement, and of course you're learning how to, you know, be more self-aware, and make other people feel heard, and be a better communicator, and learn how to deal with conflict better, and learn how to have difficult conversations, and learn how to not be reactive, and have a temper, and all of these things. Of course you should be in constant improvement. There's no such thing as a perfect person, but the fundamental of who you are at the core of your personality, the core of your identity, the core of the value you give to the world is comp…

AI assessment note: “I think any kind of dogma is, is unhealthy.”

Q Do you think it's missing in their relationship or in themselves?

A Well, I mean, all of the above, right? But, but, That sounds like an opportunity for communication. Now it hurts when someone cheats, obviously, and there are different ways in which people cheat, some which are unforgivable, you know, some of which are forgivable. You know, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's not just the cheating, it's the lying and the deceiving and, you know, that goes with it. Um, and, um, uh, you know, if, if the relationship is broken, Um, uh, and somebody seeks solace from someone else, then that's an evaluation for the relationship you have and whether it's worth clinging onto, you know. But I think usually when that happens, it's a sign that there's been a total breakdown in communication, obviously a total breakdown in trust. And that doesn't mean that the relationship should or shouldn't survive. That's for the couple to decide. But generally, I believe it's a red flag that means that we should probably evaluate what's happened, or maybe it's too late. But, um, what I find very, you know, people who, who, who usually stray from the relationship is because they're either feeling something, they're feeling something in themselves or in their relationship that they're not telling their partner about, and that's really selfish because relationships are, should be an act of co-creation. You know, my, my, my girlfriend and I, you know, we sort of have this, it s…

AI assessment note: “Well, I mean, all of the above, right?”

Q Why is this generation more avoidant than prior generations?

A I mean, there's a million reasons, you know, some of it was parenting. It's very, you know, the, the, the, our parents, uh, the parents of this generation are much more cuddling. Um, by the way, the parents, the parents would tell you that, you know, it's, it's not like some deep scientific evidence. The parents would be like, ah, shit, you know. Um, I raised them that way. Whoops, you know. It's, uh, Partially, we can't ignore the impact of social media, and we're constantly comparing ourselves to other people, you know. Um, the way we seek validation, the identity we have of ourselves comes from keeping score. How many likes do I have? How many followers do I have?

AI assessment note: “some of it was parenting... Partially, we can't ignore the impact of social media”