The Exchanges

Q You mentioned that the element of kind of where you don't expect them to come from, though, particularly in your case. I'd love to hear then, what is this alternative source? How can I tap into it, and what's your subsequent learning from that source?

A It was a little bit of anomaly, to be honest, Harry, but it's one of those things that was, it was a Probably a life lesson. It just reminded me that make sure you go through all your intro emails and read through them just because you just never know where it may come from. So a couple of years ago, got an introduction through actually a lawyer just out of the blue, got an intro to a founder that was going to be in town from Los Angeles and a little bit of a primer on the company. And I was intrigued. So I responded and ultimately ended up meeting the founder. His name is George Ron. He was the founder of a company called Honey. And so I took the meeting and then over the subsequent years really got to know George intimately well and You know, to this day, that email and that introduction that came out of the blue from someone I didn't know directly from a place that I wouldn't have ordinarily considered a place to source from is a constant reminder for me and potentially for others that always look through your emails, always look through who the source of the introduction is, and just realize that it's on you to do the filtering, right? Like, it's not on the person sending the intro to do it. It's on you as an investor to take a look at what the company might be, what the founders may be working on, and then decide if it's Interesting or relevant for what you're spending you…

AI assessment note: “got an introduction through actually a lawyer just out of the blue”

Q why. And the final element of that is kind of the subsequent after that filtering, and you go to meet them, and you have that kind of first meeting. How do you think about kind of optimizing time around that? Do you do the call, the face-to-face at your office? Do you go to their office? What's the thinking around that, and really how to leverage your time most effectively?

A Absolutely. Great question, Harry. So I think I usually try and start off with either a call or a hangout of some kind, especially if the company is not local, to be respectful of their time. Then if that meeting goes well, then the subsequent is definitely a face-to-face. It's either at their offices or at our offices, and we try and be as flexible as possible. Again, services industry, go where the founders are, make their lives easier if you can. And then if that meeting goes well, then I really try and spend time with them at home base. I think there's an incredible amount that can be gleaned and learned when you go into a company's offices and you see sort of the The macro dynamic, you know, of an office, whether it's a small team or a big team. And then it's just, you know, whatever is most convenient and easiest after that. But I would say in the grand scheme of things, it goes from probably a phone call or a video hangout to an in-person meeting either at our offices or their offices to usually a meeting at their offices, which I think is super critical if you can make that happen.

AI assessment note: “I usually try and start off with either a call or a hangout”

Q why. And the final element of that is kind of the subsequent after that filtering, and you go to meet them, and you have that kind of first meeting. How do you think about kind of optimizing time around that? Do you do the call, the face-to-face at your office? Do you go to their office? What's the thinking around that, and really how to leverage your time most effectively?

A Absolutely. Great question, Harry. So I think I usually try and start off with either a call or a hangout of some kind, especially if the company is not local, to be respectful of their time. Then if that meeting goes well, then the subsequent is definitely a face-to-face. It's either at their offices or at our offices, and we try and be as flexible as possible. Again, services industry, go where the founders are, make their lives easier if you can. And then if that meeting goes well, then I really try and spend time with them at home base. I think there's an incredible amount that can be gleaned and learned when you go into a company's offices and you see sort of the The macro dynamic, you know, of an office, whether it's a small team or a big team. And then it's just, you know, whatever is most convenient and easiest after that. But I would say in the grand scheme of things, it goes from probably a phone call or a video hangout to an in-person meeting either at our offices or their offices to usually a meeting at their offices, which I think is super critical if you can make that happen.

AI assessment note: “start off with either a call or a hangout... subsequent is definitely a face-to-face”

Q that I'm actually particularly struggling with at the moment, and it's How do you say no? I find if you provide detailed responses and feedback, it opens it up for argument, conversation, discussion, but then also I don't want to be a blank, and you do not mean not engaging enough to giving a would like to prioritize elsewhere. How do you think about the right way to say no?

A It's a great question, Harry. I think it's actually the hardest part of the job, because ultimately, as we touched on before, this is a services industry, and when founders come and pitch us, they're sharing their life vision, life dream. They've probably spent countless hours Ridiculous sacrifices to go and build what they're building, and so saying no as graciously as possible is the most important thing, and then obviously sometimes things get personal, right? People will take it personally, but what I always try and do is, is articulate at a minimum in an email, you know, what the decision was, and still be as encouraging as possible in terms of, hey, while it may not have made sense for us and our team, maybe there's others out there that it will make sense for, and so that's usually step one. I think step two Or if there's something that some details that could be really helpful, or that could potentially help them with their financing, even if it didn't work out with me or the fund that I'm involved with, I always try and communicate that over a call. And then in extreme cases, which does happen periodically, it may require also a face-to-face to just try and help the founder understand. And I think that typically happens in situations where maybe you've been spending a lot more time together, or the relationships, like I said before, go further back. It may have been so…

AI assessment note: “articulate at a minimum in an email, you know, what the decision was”

Q You mentioned that the element of kind of where you don't expect them to come from, though, particularly in your case. I'd love to hear then, what is this alternative source? How can I tap into it, and what's your subsequent learning from that source?

A It was a little bit of anomaly, to be honest, Harry, but it's one of those things that was, it was a Probably a life lesson. It just reminded me that make sure you go through all your intro emails and read through them just because you just never know where it may come from. So a couple of years ago, got an introduction through actually a lawyer just out of the blue, got an intro to a founder that was going to be in town from Los Angeles and a little bit of a primer on the company. And I was intrigued. So I responded and ultimately ended up meeting the founder. His name is George Ron. He was the founder of a company called Honey. And so I took the meeting and then over the subsequent years really got to know George intimately well and You know, to this day, that email and that introduction that came out of the blue from someone I didn't know directly from a place that I wouldn't have ordinarily considered a place to source from is a constant reminder for me and potentially for others that always look through your emails, always look through who the source of the introduction is, and just realize that it's on you to do the filtering, right? Like, it's not on the person sending the intro to do it. It's on you as an investor to take a look at what the company might be, what the founders may be working on, and then decide if it's Interesting or relevant for what you're spending you…

AI assessment note: “got an introduction through actually a lawyer just out of the blue”

Q kind of all about the founder interaction and relationship, but before that, that's the stage of the founder introduction, and you've said before that the best founder introductions have come from a place where you may be least experienced, Unexpected. Before we dive into that, tell me then, how do you think about the main bucket, so to speak, where most investors expect 99% of their flow to come from?

A Yeah, so in my experience, I think there's really general Most investors are sourcing from. I think fundamental one is either founders they've worked with or backed in the past. Again, just having experience with them, it's probably just easier to make decisions on that. And again, you sort of know what relationship you're going into when you're hopefully going to be backing someone there. The second is peer funds, seed funds, or incubators. And again, I would say that adjusts up or down depending on what stage you're investing in. And then I would, the third I would say is I like to call it proprietary networks, but it may It could not be proprietary per se. It could be places you've worked, industries you may be involved with, groups, organizations. So I think historically, my sense is those first two buckets are where most people probably spend their time, especially earlier in their careers in investing, and then the third may just depend on your either domain or work experience.

AI assessment note: “those first two buckets are where most people probably spend their time”

Q kind of all about the founder interaction and relationship, but before that, that's the stage of the founder introduction, and you've said before that the best founder introductions have come from a place where you may be least experienced, Unexpected. Before we dive into that, tell me then, how do you think about the main bucket, so to speak, where most investors expect 99% of their flow to come from?

A Yeah, so in my experience, I think there's really general Most investors are sourcing from. I think fundamental one is either founders they've worked with or backed in the past. Again, just having experience with them, it's probably just easier to make decisions on that. And again, you sort of know what relationship you're going into when you're hopefully going to be backing someone there. The second is peer funds, seed funds, or incubators. And again, I would say that adjusts up or down depending on what stage you're investing in. And then I would, the third I would say is I like to call it proprietary networks, but it may It could not be proprietary per se. It could be places you've worked, industries you may be involved with, groups, organizations. So I think historically, my sense is those first two buckets are where most people probably spend their time, especially earlier in their careers in investing, and then the third may just depend on your either domain or work experience.

AI assessment note: “I think fundamental one is either founders they've worked with or backed in the past.”

Q the element of, kind of, the space there, and being excited about that. On the flip side, if you maybe lost money, or not had great experiences in spaces before, it can lead to, kind of, cognitive biases against the space for, For future financings in the space. How do you think about that? Is that a fair assumption to have? And do you try and prevent those cognitive biases?

A I would start by saying, Harry, I think the thing is, like, market timing is so important, and many companies either benefit from that or, or And I, and I would say, yes, I think if you work at funds that maybe are a little bit more storied, have had a longer longevity, then they may have experienced companies and built a set of beliefs around a market or an opportunity. And maybe because, you know, they made an investment that went sideways. But I try and make sure that I don't use that same preconceived notion as a way to outright discount a company. And I think the best way to do that is in those conversations with those founders, if you are skeptical, it's To sort of try and understand that, you know, try and understand the lessons that maybe they've learned from seeing these other experiences, whether it was on the periphery, or maybe they have a direct line into those companies, or have some real understandings of what may have happened. I found that the best founders that are going after some of these categories, or maybe there have been companies that haven't worked up, have actually made an effort to connect with either people on those teams, or try and understand the story intimately well, so they can actually help you learn what were the mistakes that those companies may have made. And so, in my experience, I would say, That's happened a couple different times now wh…

AI assessment note: “I try and make sure that I don't use that same preconceived notion”

Q that I'm actually particularly struggling with at the moment, and it's How do you say no? I find if you provide detailed responses and feedback, it opens it up for argument, conversation, discussion, but then also I don't want to be a blank, and you do not mean not engaging enough to giving a would like to prioritize elsewhere. How do you think about the right way to say no?

A It's a great question, Harry. I think it's actually the hardest part of the job, because ultimately, as we touched on before, this is a services industry, and when founders come and pitch us, they're sharing their life vision, life dream. They've probably spent countless hours Ridiculous sacrifices to go and build what they're building, and so saying no as graciously as possible is the most important thing, and then obviously sometimes things get personal, right? People will take it personally, but what I always try and do is, is articulate at a minimum in an email, you know, what the decision was, and still be as encouraging as possible in terms of, hey, while it may not have made sense for us and our team, maybe there's others out there that it will make sense for, and so that's usually step one. I think step two Or if there's something that some details that could be really helpful, or that could potentially help them with their financing, even if it didn't work out with me or the fund that I'm involved with, I always try and communicate that over a call. And then in extreme cases, which does happen periodically, it may require also a face-to-face to just try and help the founder understand. And I think that typically happens in situations where maybe you've been spending a lot more time together, or the relationships, like I said before, go further back. It may have been so…

AI assessment note: “what I always try and do is, is articulate at a minimum in an email”

Q halfway through it now and absolutely loving it, and if you're part of the audience, you know I don't read very much, So that really does mean something. But I do, I do want to ask, what does venture look like in 20 years time, Shabby? You've seen Google, you've seen Kleiner, and now you've kind of early stage fund with Google. What does it look like in 20 years?

A Yeah, you know, I think, as I said before, Harry, I've been fortunate enough to be more of a global citizen of the world, and I do see more and more pockets of both investing as well as early stage startup communities and ecosystems forming throughout the globe. Even at Kleiner, I would say, you know, we were seeing the beginnings of this. We, we made a concerted effort To be spending time in the LA startup ecosystem, we went from having four companies down there to nearly a dozen. I would say at Gradient, as we look through different parts of the world where, you know, AI activity is starting to brew, you know, we're starting to make concerted efforts in particular regions, whether that be Seattle or Toronto, and likely your neck of the woods, Harry, London, where we just think there's a really interesting combination of both phenomenal talent, access to capital, and then more importantly, educational institutions. Institutions that are helping support those ecosystems, as well as now financial institutions supporting those ecosystems, and so I think we're going to become more and more global. I think access to capital is going to become more global, and things like AngelList, as well as governments and countries really investing, like Canada has, into the startup ecosystem, I think is going to have a long-term impact on where we see companies coming about throughout the world…

AI assessment note: “I think we're going to become more and more global.”

Q Well, I love that statement, but I want to get started today by discussing a little on you. How did you make your way first into the world of venture? And maybe more interestingly, how does one come to found Google's new AI-focused early-stage venture fund? Let's start with those two.

A Sounds good, Aries. So, I guess I had a slightly atypical path. To the world of venture. I was born and raised between the Bay Area and the Middle East, so always had roots in Silicon Valley, but my dad was an engineer, so we actually spent several years in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, but came back to the States, finished up college, and ultimately ended up graduating and going into biotech of all places, so I ended up at a company called Genentech, so I spent my formative three years out of college working there, but nights and weekends and evenings were all spent following the startup ecosystem. And a friend of mine or a mentor I'd had for years kind of pulled me aside and said, hey, you know, if you're so interested on the tech side, then maybe that's an area you should go spend some time. And I was very, very fortunate, had a couple of friends that were at this startup called AdMob, and so continued to reach out to them periodically anytime I thought there might be a role there. And I ended up finding an opportunity to join this company called AdMob, which is a mobile advertising company. And the rest is sort of history, Harry. I ended up joining the team, and then later on, the company eventually got acquired by Google in, in And then I spent about four and a half years at Google across a number of different organizations, but primarily working with startups and really mobile en…

AI assessment note: “I guess I had a slightly atypical path. To the world of venture.”

Q Well, I love that statement, but I want to get started today by discussing a little on you. How did you make your way first into the world of venture? And maybe more interestingly, how does one come to found Google's new AI-focused early-stage venture fund? Let's start with those two.

A Sounds good, Aries. So, I guess I had a slightly atypical path. To the world of venture. I was born and raised between the Bay Area and the Middle East, so always had roots in Silicon Valley, but my dad was an engineer, so we actually spent several years in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, but came back to the States, finished up college, and ultimately ended up graduating and going into biotech of all places, so I ended up at a company called Genentech, so I spent my formative three years out of college working there, but nights and weekends and evenings were all spent following the startup ecosystem. And a friend of mine or a mentor I'd had for years kind of pulled me aside and said, hey, you know, if you're so interested on the tech side, then maybe that's an area you should go spend some time. And I was very, very fortunate, had a couple of friends that were at this startup called AdMob, and so continued to reach out to them periodically anytime I thought there might be a role there. And I ended up finding an opportunity to join this company called AdMob, which is a mobile advertising company. And the rest is sort of history, Harry. I ended up joining the team, and then later on, the company eventually got acquired by Google in, in And then I spent about four and a half years at Google across a number of different organizations, but primarily working with startups and really mobile en…

AI assessment note: “I guess I had a slightly atypical path. To the world of venture.”

Q Can I ask, kind of post that kind of meeting and then the subsequent meeting and the subsequent meeting and the term sheet being put down, what does the investment decision-making process look like for you at Gradient?

A Yeah, I would say it's very similar to what folks may experience at other funds. You know, we, we get together as a group twice a week. We meet companies on those days. We also do our partner discussions those days. And so, uh, we have a pretty nimble and velocity oriented process. There's obviously a number of firms that have existed over the years that, you know, have had these Monday morning partner meetings and pitch meetings. I think one of the things that, that we cared a lot about at Gradient, it was just, Always trying to make sure that we can optimize for velocity and speed. Sometimes deals are very fast moving and to be able to make decisions and get a group together is critical. And so as a result of that, we, you know, we get together twice a week at the beginning of the week, as well as at the end of the week. Um, and so that way we don't end up missing a weekend in the middle of a deal. But as far as the process itself goes, it's, it's very straightforward, very similar to how most folks do it.

AI assessment note: “we get together as a group twice a week. We meet companies on those days.”

Q halfway through it now and absolutely loving it, and if you're part of the audience, you know I don't read very much, So that really does mean something. But I do, I do want to ask, what does venture look like in 20 years time, Shabby? You've seen Google, you've seen Kleiner, and now you've kind of early stage fund with Google. What does it look like in 20 years?

A Yeah, you know, I think, as I said before, Harry, I've been fortunate enough to be more of a global citizen of the world, and I do see more and more pockets of both investing as well as early stage startup communities and ecosystems forming throughout the globe. Even at Kleiner, I would say, you know, we were seeing the beginnings of this. We, we made a concerted effort To be spending time in the LA startup ecosystem, we went from having four companies down there to nearly a dozen. I would say at Gradient, as we look through different parts of the world where, you know, AI activity is starting to brew, you know, we're starting to make concerted efforts in particular regions, whether that be Seattle or Toronto, and likely your neck of the woods, Harry, London, where we just think there's a really interesting combination of both phenomenal talent, access to capital, and then more importantly, educational institutions. Institutions that are helping support those ecosystems, as well as now financial institutions supporting those ecosystems, and so I think we're going to become more and more global. I think access to capital is going to become more global, and things like AngelList, as well as governments and countries really investing, like Canada has, into the startup ecosystem, I think is going to have a long-term impact on where we see companies coming about throughout the world…

AI assessment note: “I think access to capital is going to become more global”

Q the element of, kind of, the space there, and being excited about that. On the flip side, if you maybe lost money, or not had great experiences in spaces before, it can lead to, kind of, cognitive biases against the space for, For future financings in the space. How do you think about that? Is that a fair assumption to have? And do you try and prevent those cognitive biases?

A I would start by saying, Harry, I think the thing is, like, market timing is so important, and many companies either benefit from that or, or And I, and I would say, yes, I think if you work at funds that maybe are a little bit more storied, have had a longer longevity, then they may have experienced companies and built a set of beliefs around a market or an opportunity. And maybe because, you know, they made an investment that went sideways. But I try and make sure that I don't use that same preconceived notion as a way to outright discount a company. And I think the best way to do that is in those conversations with those founders, if you are skeptical, it's To sort of try and understand that, you know, try and understand the lessons that maybe they've learned from seeing these other experiences, whether it was on the periphery, or maybe they have a direct line into those companies, or have some real understandings of what may have happened. I found that the best founders that are going after some of these categories, or maybe there have been companies that haven't worked up, have actually made an effort to connect with either people on those teams, or try and understand the story intimately well, so they can actually help you learn what were the mistakes that those companies may have made. And so, in my experience, I would say, That's happened a couple different times now wh…

AI assessment note: “I try and make sure that I don't use that same preconceived notion”

Q other day on how he filters and rejects slides when they're maybe just faces for teams, or they don't explain their kind of value prop well enough in the first slide. How do you look to filter at scale when you have such brand like KP or Gradient behind you, and you do see so much? How do you filter at scale, and what are your kind of quick no's?

A Yeah, so for me, I would say I focus Heavily and index heavily on team just because we do anywhere from C to series B. And so sometimes we're looking at the earliest stages. And so for me, team matters a lot. So I try and look at the team's backgrounds and get a sense of what have they done in the past? Why are they working on this problem? Like for me, that's really, really important. Like what's the story? And so if they can't explain those two things relatively quickly, if that's not clear in a slide or in an email, then I would say it can be usually be a quick no, but a very polite no. And then beyond that, I would say there's certainly areas that I would say we may have Spent time working before, right? So there, we may have a visceral reaction to something when we, when we see someone trying to attack a pain point that we may have felt are It's really quick, right? Like, it's like, I spend a decent amount of years working in the mobile industry, so there's a set of areas that I, I know something about, and so if, if it's in any one of those areas, and I can usually pretty quickly get to the core, and very quickly either say yes or no, but yeah, I would say I index heavily on team and backgrounds, and try and understand the narrative and story, like, relatively quickly.

AI assessment note: “if they can't explain those two things relatively quickly... usually be a quick no”

Q other day on how he filters and rejects slides when they're maybe just faces for teams, or they don't explain their kind of value prop well enough in the first slide. How do you look to filter at scale when you have such brand like KP or Gradient behind you, and you do see so much? How do you filter at scale, and what are your kind of quick no's?

A Yeah, so for me, I would say I focus Heavily and index heavily on team just because we do anywhere from C to series B. And so sometimes we're looking at the earliest stages. And so for me, team matters a lot. So I try and look at the team's backgrounds and get a sense of what have they done in the past? Why are they working on this problem? Like for me, that's really, really important. Like what's the story? And so if they can't explain those two things relatively quickly, if that's not clear in a slide or in an email, then I would say it can be usually be a quick no, but a very polite no. And then beyond that, I would say there's certainly areas that I would say we may have Spent time working before, right? So there, we may have a visceral reaction to something when we, when we see someone trying to attack a pain point that we may have felt are It's really quick, right? Like, it's like, I spend a decent amount of years working in the mobile industry, so there's a set of areas that I, I know something about, and so if, if it's in any one of those areas, and I can usually pretty quickly get to the core, and very quickly either say yes or no, but yeah, I would say I index heavily on team and backgrounds, and try and understand the narrative and story, like, relatively quickly.

AI assessment note: “if they can't explain those two things relatively quickly... usually be a quick no”

Q Can I dive in there? Because I had Trey from Defy on the show, and she mentioned her formative years in VC, also alongside John Doar, and she said that the biggest thing she learned from him was really to discover what type of board member you are. I'm intrigued. What were your learnings from working alongside John Doar in those early days?

A Yeah, that's a, that's a great point. I think there's a lot of learnings from John, and maybe we'll get a chance Touch on his recent book later, but I think that the biggest thing I learned from John was just how cerebral he is. So he's got an incredibly sharp memory. He has a, a way of working with founders that I think is incredibly genuine because it truly is, and he cares. And so it was just amazing to see him in the boardroom, how he interacted with his CEOs, uh, with the other board members. And it was this combination of both being simultaneously gentle, as well as asking the tough Hard questions, but in the most polite way possible. And I saw that just time and again, and for me, I would say it was, it was probably one of the greatest learnings was just understanding the different styles that different investors have. And it was one of the remarkable things about John is just, he lights up a room when he walks in and he's got this incredibly humble personality, but he can really quickly get to the core of a problem or an issue and very quickly start to ask the questions that are probably most pertinent and most important. And it's, it's just this uncanny ability that But when you see it in real life, it's just something to be respected, to be very honest.

AI assessment note: “the biggest thing I learned from John was just how cerebral he is.”

Q Can I dive in there? Because I had Trey from Defy on the show, and she mentioned her formative years in VC, also alongside John Doar, and she said that the biggest thing she learned from him was really to discover what type of board member you are. I'm intrigued. What were your learnings from working alongside John Doar in those early days?

A Yeah, that's a, that's a great point. I think there's a lot of learnings from John, and maybe we'll get a chance Touch on his recent book later, but I think that the biggest thing I learned from John was just how cerebral he is. So he's got an incredibly sharp memory. He has a, a way of working with founders that I think is incredibly genuine because it truly is, and he cares. And so it was just amazing to see him in the boardroom, how he interacted with his CEOs, uh, with the other board members. And it was this combination of both being simultaneously gentle, as well as asking the tough Hard questions, but in the most polite way possible. And I saw that just time and again, and for me, I would say it was, it was probably one of the greatest learnings was just understanding the different styles that different investors have. And it was one of the remarkable things about John is just, he lights up a room when he walks in and he's got this incredibly humble personality, but he can really quickly get to the core of a problem or an issue and very quickly start to ask the questions that are probably most pertinent and most important. And it's, it's just this uncanny ability that But when you see it in real life, it's just something to be respected, to be very honest.

AI assessment note: “biggest thing I learned from John was just how cerebral he is”

Q Can I ask, with rocket ship companies like UJet, like the rocket ships that we've seen in recent years, do you find their cadence of fundraising is actually much quicker than those sort of struggling?

A Yes, I, I think that's totally fair, Harry. I, I think there's a certain set of Companies, and I think that the crowning moment may happen at different points in time that can always fundraise. There's always available capital there for them, and I think there's probably metrics and numbers that probably further warrant and justify this, but once you sort of hit this special rocket ship status, I would say there's always suitors waiting to come and invest in your company, which of course can be somewhat jarring sometimes for the founders, because many of them want nothing but to build their companies and Every few months, there's financing that comes about, but I could not agree with you more. I think, you know, the hard part is saying, like, when or how does that essentially happen for these companies, but when it does, I would say there's just capital that's always available, and then it's, obviously, it's on them to make the prudent decision to decide when and how, and how does it make sense, and when does it make sense to take on that following capital?

AI assessment note: “Yes, I, I think that's totally fair, Harry.”

Q element of this being a services industry, and that was a takeaway from you from the Kleiner days. And we discussed kind of founder relationships before, and you said to me that founder relationships and their longevity really matters, and I couldn't agree with you more here. But do you have an example, Shabby, of maybe how this played out for you in the investing world, and some subsequent lessons?

A Yeah, absolutely, Harry. So I was, as I said before, I was very fortunate to have, one, been a part of an early stage startup, and just met entrepreneurs that were really at the forefront. So at AdMob, it was the beginning of the mobile ecosystem. You know, people were going from WAP-enabled devices to the beginnings of app stores, and I just started to meet these entrepreneurs. Entrepreneurs and mobile that were tinkering with things very, very early. You were ahead of a market essentially becoming as large as it now has become, and now we look back and we're like, wow, like, of course, like, of course there's smartphones in your pocket, right? Like, but before this wasn't the case, there were no app stores. Like, if we remember back in time, the original iPhone did not have an app store. People were jailbreaking these things, and that's all of a sudden where the app store was created, and subsequently, uh, Android Marketplace and eventually Google Play, but I only mention this because, Because of the being on the forefront of some of these startups and then at Google on the Android and Google Play teams, I had a chance to meet some incredible founders very, very early on. And so folks like the folks from Snapchat and WhatsApp and Tinder and Instagram and many other companies, you know, which may have had slightly different paths. And because I'd met these folks at a time in e…

AI assessment note: “I remember when I first met the Snapchat team, it was only about 13 people”

Q Can I ask, with rocket ship companies like UJet, like the rocket ships that we've seen in recent years, do you find their cadence of fundraising is actually much quicker than those sort of struggling?

A Yes, I, I think that's totally fair, Harry. I, I think there's a certain set of Companies, and I think that the crowning moment may happen at different points in time that can always fundraise. There's always available capital there for them, and I think there's probably metrics and numbers that probably further warrant and justify this, but once you sort of hit this special rocket ship status, I would say there's always suitors waiting to come and invest in your company, which of course can be somewhat jarring sometimes for the founders, because many of them want nothing but to build their companies and Every few months, there's financing that comes about, but I could not agree with you more. I think, you know, the hard part is saying, like, when or how does that essentially happen for these companies, but when it does, I would say there's just capital that's always available, and then it's, obviously, it's on them to make the prudent decision to decide when and how, and how does it make sense, and when does it make sense to take on that following capital?

AI assessment note: “Yes, I, I think that's totally fair, Harry.”

Q Can I ask, kind of post that kind of meeting and then the subsequent meeting and the subsequent meeting and the term sheet being put down, what does the investment decision-making process look like for you at Gradient?

A Yeah, I would say it's very similar to what folks may experience at other funds. You know, we, we get together as a group twice a week. We meet companies on those days. We also do our partner discussions those days. And so, uh, we have a pretty nimble and velocity oriented process. There's obviously a number of firms that have existed over the years that, you know, have had these Monday morning partner meetings and pitch meetings. I think one of the things that, that we cared a lot about at Gradient, it was just, Always trying to make sure that we can optimize for velocity and speed. Sometimes deals are very fast moving and to be able to make decisions and get a group together is critical. And so as a result of that, we, you know, we get together twice a week at the beginning of the week, as well as at the end of the week. Um, and so that way we don't end up missing a weekend in the middle of a deal. But as far as the process itself goes, it's, it's very straightforward, very similar to how most folks do it.

AI assessment note: “we get together as a group twice a week. We meet companies on those days.”

Q element of this being a services industry, and that was a takeaway from you from the Kleiner days. And we discussed kind of founder relationships before, and you said to me that founder relationships and their longevity really matters, and I couldn't agree with you more here. But do you have an example, Shabby, of maybe how this played out for you in the investing world, and some subsequent lessons?

A Yeah, absolutely, Harry. So I was, as I said before, I was very fortunate to have, one, been a part of an early stage startup, and just met entrepreneurs that were really at the forefront. So at AdMob, it was the beginning of the mobile ecosystem. You know, people were going from WAP-enabled devices to the beginnings of app stores, and I just started to meet these entrepreneurs. Entrepreneurs and mobile that were tinkering with things very, very early. You were ahead of a market essentially becoming as large as it now has become, and now we look back and we're like, wow, like, of course, like, of course there's smartphones in your pocket, right? Like, but before this wasn't the case, there were no app stores. Like, if we remember back in time, the original iPhone did not have an app store. People were jailbreaking these things, and that's all of a sudden where the app store was created, and subsequently, uh, Android Marketplace and eventually Google Play, but I only mention this because, Because of the being on the forefront of some of these startups and then at Google on the Android and Google Play teams, I had a chance to meet some incredible founders very, very early on. And so folks like the folks from Snapchat and WhatsApp and Tinder and Instagram and many other companies, you know, which may have had slightly different paths. And because I'd met these folks at a time in e…

AI assessment note: “I remember when I first met the Snapchat team, it was only about 13 people”