The Exchanges

Q Now, I want to start off with a little bit of a creation story about you and how you made the transition from, from banking to startup land. So what's your story? Yeah.

A Well, it's a question I get asked a lot by my, um, by my former colleagues in banking, and I wish that I had a very sophisticated answer for you, but the truth is it was, um, you know, primarily dumb luck. So my situation is that I spent about 15 years working for major investment banks, primarily on the trading, uh, and origination side. Most recently, I had spent the last 11 years overseas, four years in London, and then seven years in Singapore. And, uh, along the way, you know, had gotten married and had three kids, and we just got pretty homesick for the States, and my wife and I decided we wanted to move back to the States, and we decided to move to Los Angeles and take some time off to sort of figure out what I wanted to do next. When I got to Los Angeles, about two weeks after I got here, I was contacted by an old friend of mine, a gentleman named Rich Pearson, who is, you know, today one of the co-founders of Headspace. Uh, and we got together socially for a breakfast just to catch up. We hadn't seen each other in a few years. And he started asking me, um, some questions about his business. I'd heard that he had, you know, formed a, uh, meditation app company with a former monk. And I thought he was crazy because he had a very successful job in advertising. And, you know, I was not a meditator. I hadn't tried it. Um, but he started asking me all these questions about i…

AI assessment note: “the truth is it was, um, you know, primarily dumb luck.”

Q Yeah, no, I'm just, I'm just intrigued kind of going back to mixing the content and the habit forming together. Uh, the take 10, obviously, is where you have the 10 free days of headspace. Um, but, but then is that, is that kind of demonstrating that you've done the studies and 10 days is what it takes to form a habit? Why did you choose 10?

A Well, we, we chose 10 because, um, It's a long enough period where people can start to see benefits, which was very important to us. You know, one of the most important aspects of the company is from a social perspective is that there is always availability to a free product and a free product that provides a solid foundation in meditation. So a hundred minutes, you know, 10 days times 10 minutes, a hundred minutes of free content really is a very solid meditation foundation. So part of it was to address the social aspects of the mission. Uh, and part of it was really around efficacy. Science and studies have shown that the sort of key to success in, in, uh, affecting change in terms of mental health, and you can actually look at this physiologically through fMRI machines, and the key is more around, um, how frequently you meditate as opposed to longevity. So, you know, 10 minutes, um, multiple times per week is better than, for instance, doing 60 minutes once every, you know, 10 days or every two weeks. Uh, so, so it was really by design, you know, as a sort of combination to ensure that we were always giving people access to a solid foundation that was free, that works, that, um, you know, was effective, um, but, but that also was not, didn't seem like a, a sort of burden on the way in, right? Part of the, part of the challenge here is, you know, we want people to go through …

AI assessment note: “we chose 10 because, um, It's a long enough period where people can start”

Q Now, I want to start off with a little bit of a creation story about you and how you made the transition from, from banking to startup land. So what's your story? Yeah.

A Well, it's a question I get asked a lot by my, um, by my former colleagues in banking, and I wish that I had a very sophisticated answer for you, but the truth is it was, um, you know, primarily dumb luck. So my situation is that I spent about 15 years working for major investment banks, primarily on the trading, uh, and origination side. Most recently, I had spent the last 11 years overseas, four years in London, and then seven years in Singapore. And, uh, along the way, you know, had gotten married and had three kids, and we just got pretty homesick for the States, and my wife and I decided we wanted to move back to the States, and we decided to move to Los Angeles and take some time off to sort of figure out what I wanted to do next. When I got to Los Angeles, about two weeks after I got here, I was contacted by an old friend of mine, a gentleman named Rich Pearson, who is, you know, today one of the co-founders of Headspace. Uh, and we got together socially for a breakfast just to catch up. We hadn't seen each other in a few years. And he started asking me, um, some questions about his business. I'd heard that he had, you know, formed a, uh, meditation app company with a former monk. And I thought he was crazy because he had a very successful job in advertising. And, you know, I was not a meditator. I hadn't tried it. Um, but he started asking me all these questions about i…

AI assessment note: “I spent about 15 years working for major investment banks... moved to Los Angeles”

Q Stay tuned, Mr. Briggs. Uh, I'm intrigued. Have you noticed any really interesting observations done about consumer behavior since, since starting and since looking at all the data around Headspace and its users?

A It's interesting. We sort of talk about our user groups in two buckets. We talk about vitamin users and aspirin users. You know, the vitamin users are the ones that are in a routine that are doing this as a, As a sort of preventative measure to keep themselves, you know, healthy and happy. And the aspirin users are those that use a product more, you know, when they are feeling really stressed out or they can't sleep, et cetera. And we have seen, you know, migration of people from aspirin into vitamin, which is great news for us. I mean, ultimately, like I said, we really want people to be thinking proactively around health and happiness. We all wake up in the morning and We brush our teeth. We may go to the gym. We think about what we're going to eat, but, but only a small amount of people wake up in the morning and think proactively around what am I going to do today to, you know, improve my, my health and happiness and sort of take care of my mental wellbeing. Uh, and that is something we're deeply passionate about, about changing.

AI assessment note: “we have seen, you know, migration of people from aspirin into vitamin”

Q I mean, it's, um, Is retention one of your biggest problems?

A It is. Yeah. I mean, well, the thing, you know, one of the things that we are most obsessive about is engagement, which is obviously highly correlated to retention. Look, at the end of the day, if you take a step back, and you think about the vision of the company, which is to improve the health and happiness of the world, it's hard to deliver on that vision if people are not using products, or if people are just using products in a sort of aspirin fashion, you know, when they can't sleep, or if they are getting on an airplane and have fear of flying, or, you know, in the run-up to them playing golf. What we, um, want to do is really affect a sort of cultural movement in which people think, About proactive mind health in the same way that they think about proactive physical health. Uh, and so for us, it's really about, you know, how do we produce the best possible content, keep people coming back, be that guided meditation content or other content. Uh, and it's something that we, you know, we really obsess over. So for us, it's all about, you know, trying to remove the barriers to practice and to consumption of content to get, uh, better and better and more comprehensive around content. And to, you know, embed tools within product that really drive engagement.

AI assessment note: “It is. Yeah. I mean, well, the thing, you know, one of the things”

Q Yeah, no, I'm just, I'm just intrigued kind of going back to mixing the content and the habit forming together. Uh, the take 10, obviously, is where you have the 10 free days of headspace. Um, but, but then is that, is that kind of demonstrating that you've done the studies and 10 days is what it takes to form a habit? Why did you choose 10?

A Well, we, we chose 10 because, um, It's a long enough period where people can start to see benefits, which was very important to us. You know, one of the most important aspects of the company is from a social perspective is that there is always availability to a free product and a free product that provides a solid foundation in meditation. So a hundred minutes, you know, 10 days times 10 minutes, a hundred minutes of free content really is a very solid meditation foundation. So part of it was to address the social aspects of the mission. Uh, and part of it was really around efficacy. Science and studies have shown that the sort of key to success in, in, uh, affecting change in terms of mental health, and you can actually look at this physiologically through fMRI machines, and the key is more around, um, how frequently you meditate as opposed to longevity. So, you know, 10 minutes, um, multiple times per week is better than, for instance, doing 60 minutes once every, you know, 10 days or every two weeks. Uh, so, so it was really by design, you know, as a sort of combination to ensure that we were always giving people access to a solid foundation that was free, that works, that, um, you know, was effective, um, but, but that also was not, didn't seem like a, a sort of burden on the way in, right? Part of the, part of the challenge here is, you know, we want people to go through …

AI assessment note: “Well, we, we chose 10 because, um, It's a long enough period”

Q Stay tuned, Mr. Briggs. Uh, I'm intrigued. Have you noticed any really interesting observations done about consumer behavior since, since starting and since looking at all the data around Headspace and its users?

A It's interesting. We sort of talk about our user groups in two buckets. We talk about vitamin users and aspirin users. You know, the vitamin users are the ones that are in a routine that are doing this as a, As a sort of preventative measure to keep themselves, you know, healthy and happy. And the aspirin users are those that use a product more, you know, when they are feeling really stressed out or they can't sleep, et cetera. And we have seen, you know, migration of people from aspirin into vitamin, which is great news for us. I mean, ultimately, like I said, we really want people to be thinking proactively around health and happiness. We all wake up in the morning and We brush our teeth. We may go to the gym. We think about what we're going to eat, but, but only a small amount of people wake up in the morning and think proactively around what am I going to do today to, you know, improve my, my health and happiness and sort of take care of my mental wellbeing. Uh, and that is something we're deeply passionate about, about changing.

AI assessment note: “We sort of talk about our user groups in two buckets. We talk about vitamin users and aspirin users.”

Q and then moving slightly away from the product and the users themselves, I'd like to just discuss the macro market for the, for the health and wellness apps, which has grown exponentially. Kind of exponentially over the last few years. So with the likes of like Calm, uh, is this a market where it's winner takes all? How do you approach the market competition of health and wellness with Headspace?

A Yeah, I guess there's a couple of questions in that. The first is, you know, we don't really view other meditation apps as competition. At the end of the day, what we are doing is we're trying to compete for people's time. The time is, you know, the most precious resource that we all have, especially in today's busy world. And what we're trying to Do is get people to spend 10 minutes less on, you know, social media or reading sort of viral articles or consuming, uh, television and have them, you know, instead commit those 10 minutes towards an investment in their health and happiness, and so that's really about behavioral change, and, and, and we, you know, we view time as sort of the, the biggest, um, challenge to, to conquer. With regard to the competitive space, Winner take all. And, you know, I think the sort of implicit target addressable market in there, you know, we were obviously asked this when we did our round in terms of how we think about the market and market sizing is quite difficult because we are creating a new vertical here around health and happiness that we believe has not been created before. But what I can tell you just in terms of mental, you know, costs around sort of mental disorders and issues, the World Economic Forum recently did a study in which they were Projecting, uh, global costs, uh, of, you know, non-communicable diseases, and their estimate wa…

AI assessment note: “we don't really view other meditation apps as competition. At the end of the day”

Q I mean, it's, um, Is retention one of your biggest problems?

A It is. Yeah. I mean, well, the thing, you know, one of the things that we are most obsessive about is engagement, which is obviously highly correlated to retention. Look, at the end of the day, if you take a step back, and you think about the vision of the company, which is to improve the health and happiness of the world, it's hard to deliver on that vision if people are not using products, or if people are just using products in a sort of aspirin fashion, you know, when they can't sleep, or if they are getting on an airplane and have fear of flying, or, you know, in the run-up to them playing golf. What we, um, want to do is really affect a sort of cultural movement in which people think, About proactive mind health in the same way that they think about proactive physical health. Uh, and so for us, it's really about, you know, how do we produce the best possible content, keep people coming back, be that guided meditation content or other content. Uh, and it's something that we, you know, we really obsess over. So for us, it's all about, you know, trying to remove the barriers to practice and to consumption of content to get, uh, better and better and more comprehensive around content. And to, you know, embed tools within product that really drive engagement.

AI assessment note: “It is. Yeah. I mean, well, the thing, you know, one of the things”

Q And talking of take 10, when, when the 10 days is over, that's when the transition from free to paid happens. Um, so, so how do you then bridge that gap and ensure that those that have done take 10 then convert to paying users?

A Yeah, so it's a good question. I mean, people are not going to convert to paying users if we have not given them A good product experience in the, in the, you know, free part of the app. So part of what we have done is to provide more and more and more free content so that people can have a broader foundational experience. So for instance, when Apple released the Apple watch, they came to us and asked us if we would consider putting our SOS meditations, you know, these short form two minute meditations for when you've, you're having some kind of crisis and just really need to sort of very quickly cool down. They asked us if, you know, we would put that on the Apple Watch, and we talked about it with them, and we said, sure, that had traditionally been, you know, on the paid side of the paywall, but we felt, again, it was aligned with the social aspects of the mission to make that available to everyone, so that's something that we've done. All the supporting content, you know, all the editorial content you'll see in the blog, radio, headspace, podcast, that is all free, and that's, we've, you know, built that over time.

AI assessment note: “part of what we have done is to provide more and more and more free content”

Q And talking of take 10, when, when the 10 days is over, that's when the transition from free to paid happens. Um, so, so how do you then bridge that gap and ensure that those that have done take 10 then convert to paying users?

A Yeah, so it's a good question. I mean, people are not going to convert to paying users if we have not given them A good product experience in the, in the, you know, free part of the app. So part of what we have done is to provide more and more and more free content so that people can have a broader foundational experience. So for instance, when Apple released the Apple watch, they came to us and asked us if we would consider putting our SOS meditations, you know, these short form two minute meditations for when you've, you're having some kind of crisis and just really need to sort of very quickly cool down. They asked us if, you know, we would put that on the Apple Watch, and we talked about it with them, and we said, sure, that had traditionally been, you know, on the paid side of the paywall, but we felt, again, it was aligned with the social aspects of the mission to make that available to everyone, so that's something that we've done. All the supporting content, you know, all the editorial content you'll see in the blog, radio, headspace, podcast, that is all free, and that's, we've, you know, built that over time.

AI assessment note: “people are not going to convert to paying users if we have not given them”

Q And then I want to finish on the next five years for you and for Headspace. What have we got in store for me as a user? What have I got to look forward to?

A Yeah. Well, I think, you know, people view us fairly as a, you know, meditation app and, but we think that, You know, to really focus on health and happiness, it's about more than meditation. You know, meditation is a great start. It is, you know, at the core of everything that we do, but, you know, we are really evolving into the world's most comprehensive guide to health and happiness, and I think that that's really a lifetime's work. That's not something that we, you know, tie the bow on in five years and say, ta-da, we're done. I think, you know, we need, we will continue working on that as long as we're here, and I hope You know, that I'm still here in five years. It's, uh, it's definitely been the most fun job I've ever had.

AI assessment note: “evolving into the world's most comprehensive guide to health and happiness”