The Exchanges

Q Is there one that you think too with that?

A The most special thing I've ever been a part of was the Manchester concert. Um, I've never, I have the Manchester B tattooed on my arm. Um, Ariana, who I had dinner with last night, she knows this. I always tell her and she, you know, gets emotional, but she'll always be a hero to me. Um, cause she could have stayed home after that. She met those kids. She was there. She was traumatized. I asked her to do a concert two weeks later in response to terrorism. That's a very unfair ask. But I, I, uh, I was, I was angry, but it was an unfair ask. And, um, she said no at first and then two days later called me and says, you know, I'm not who I say and unless I do this, we need to do this. And all those artists showed up. But I always say that the hero was the city of Manchester because people forget the London terror attack was the night before that concert and the British government Put a full alert on saying you can go to the concert, but there is likely an attack. That is what the Greater Manchester Police put out as a bulletin. And I thought no one's gonna show up. We're putting this on, you know, it's on BBC. It's being broadcast over Radio One. It's on Twitter. It's on YouTube and it's on Facebook. You can sit at home and watch this magnificent concert and be safe. And when Marcus Mumford took the stage to open it up for us, it was filled with like, 66,000 people.

AI assessment note: “The most special thing I've ever been a part of was the Manchester concert.”

Q When that moment hit, did you know that was the catalytic moment?

A There was no option. When you hit that level of bottom in, in a depression, you realize there's do something. And the other option is not an option, right? That's not who I am. That I realized I'm like, that isn't me. That thought that came to my head, way too dark. That isn't me. I'm not going to go in that direction. I have to do something. And it was funny because my friend was like, well, I was like, what do I do? It's the same thing you asked. And he was like, well, start with this place Hoffman. You should go there. I did it. Changed my life. And he put me on the phone with this woman, Liza, and she started talking. She goes, I can get you in in three weeks. And it was October, 24th, 2020. And October, 24th, 2020 was the release date of Ariana Grande's album. And I thought this is the biggest album release I have of the year. And I remember being in a parking lot of her music video, hearing that over the phone, hanging up, looking up at the sky and started hysterically laughing because I realized I was being given a choice. Choose the path that I've been on of success that had me hitting that rock bottom moment. Or do something new and different. And I went into Ariana's trailer. I said, I need to do something. I will help set everything up. Everything will be lined up for your release week, but I'm going to be gone. And I won't have phone or email. And I'm your manager. …

AI assessment note: “I realized I was being given a choice.”

Q We're gonna do a quick fire on, otherwise I'm gonna be completely unable to afford your, um, brilliant therapy session fees. Um, David Geffen is your mentor, and so I say a statement or a quick question, and you give me your 62nd thoughts. David Geffen is your mentor. What's the best advice he's given you?

A He's given me so many pieces of great advice. Um, David Geffen told me that in a hundred years, no one's gonna remember him, so they sure as hell won't remember me, so don't have an ego. Um, and I think he's right. In a hundred years, you know, people remember my, they'll feel my impact, but they won't remember me. So don't treat myself like I'm something special. Uh, the other thing he said to me, which was very powerful was, if you have people calling you saying, oh, you need to know this person's talking shit about you. You should probably remove those people from your life too, because half the time they're talking about someone who you don't even see anymore, or they're barely in your life, and all they're doing is stirring up drama.

AI assessment note: “David Geffen told me that in a hundred years, no one's gonna remember him”

Q You said about the next chapter that I do want to discuss the investing first, like what was the first deal and how did you get into venture investing before we touch on TQ?

A I was a big college party promoter and I used to pay a hacker to, um, every time I got kicked out of the EDU databases at the colleges, I'd pay this kid like four or 500 bucks to log back in and hack back in and get me all the addresses so I could blast the kids. Um, and then something called the Facebook.com launched, and Emory was one of the first, like, A or 12 schools. And I was like, wait a second, I can use this, the Facebook.com to, like, get to all the kids. And I contacted Mark Zuckerberg, and then he put me in touch with the, at the time, it said, I think it was like, you know, Master of Coin Eduardo Saverin was, like, on the contact page. And he put me in touch with Eduardo, and we started negotiating, and I was trying to invest a hundred grand for 10% of Facebook. And, uh, we had emails going back and forth, and then Eduardo wrote me, um, at my SosoDef email address, because I was working at SosoDef at the time. Hey, Mark wants to launch 32 more schools in two weeks. He's decided he doesn't want to take any capital. I found out years later, because I saw Eduardo in Singapore, that I had no chance of getting in, because Eduardo was pushed out at that point, and that anyone negotiating with Eduardo, Mark wasn't going to let in. But also, he wasn't going to take any money, because he was launching more schools. So I, I had broken up with my high school sweetheart. She …

AI assessment note: “I was trying to invest a hundred grand for 10% of Facebook.”

Q When that moment hit, did you know that was the catalytic moment?

A There was no option. When you hit that level of bottom in, in a depression, you realize there's do something. And the other option is not an option, right? That's not who I am. That I realized I'm like, that isn't me. That thought that came to my head, way too dark. That isn't me. I'm not going to go in that direction. I have to do something. And it was funny because my friend was like, well, I was like, what do I do? It's the same thing you asked. And he was like, well, start with this place Hoffman. You should go there. I did it. Changed my life. And he put me on the phone with this woman, Liza, and she started talking. She goes, I can get you in in three weeks. And it was October, 24th, 2020. And October, 24th, 2020 was the release date of Ariana Grande's album. And I thought this is the biggest album release I have of the year. And I remember being in a parking lot of her music video, hearing that over the phone, hanging up, looking up at the sky and started hysterically laughing because I realized I was being given a choice. Choose the path that I've been on of success that had me hitting that rock bottom moment. Or do something new and different. And I went into Ariana's trailer. I said, I need to do something. I will help set everything up. Everything will be lined up for your release week, but I'm going to be gone. And I won't have phone or email. And I'm your manager. …

AI assessment note: “There was no option. When you hit that level of bottom in, in a depression”

Q Is there one that you think too with that?

A The most special thing I've ever been a part of was the Manchester concert. Um, I've never, I have the Manchester B tattooed on my arm. Um, Ariana, who I had dinner with last night, she knows this. I always tell her and she, you know, gets emotional, but she'll always be a hero to me. Um, cause she could have stayed home after that. She met those kids. She was there. She was traumatized. I asked her to do a concert two weeks later in response to terrorism. That's a very unfair ask. But I, I, uh, I was, I was angry, but it was an unfair ask. And, um, she said no at first and then two days later called me and says, you know, I'm not who I say and unless I do this, we need to do this. And all those artists showed up. But I always say that the hero was the city of Manchester because people forget the London terror attack was the night before that concert and the British government Put a full alert on saying you can go to the concert, but there is likely an attack. That is what the Greater Manchester Police put out as a bulletin. And I thought no one's gonna show up. We're putting this on, you know, it's on BBC. It's being broadcast over Radio One. It's on Twitter. It's on YouTube and it's on Facebook. You can sit at home and watch this magnificent concert and be safe. And when Marcus Mumford took the stage to open it up for us, it was filled with like, 66,000 people.

AI assessment note: “The most special thing I've ever been a part of was the Manchester concert.”

Q Do you remember your first deal? I remember getting some of the wine instructions, you know, like, 50 K to a random bank, you know, like, wow, shit.

A I remember one of my first deals, everyone thought I was crazy on my, on my team, because I had a new business manager, I was starting to make some money, and, um, it was a company that was valued at four hundred million dollars in San Francisco, and it was only in San Francisco, and it was a cab company called Uber. And, uh, it was Uber car. And, um, and the only reason I knew about it is I'd gone up there to see another tech founder that I didn't get in on. And he called me an Uber and the experience blew my mind. And then someone brought it to me and I was asking about it and they're like, oh, you gotta meet this guy. He's raising for it. My team was like, this is crazy. You shouldn't do this. And I'm very grateful that I did. Travis is one of the best founders I've ever met my entire life.

AI assessment note: “I remember one of my first deals, everyone thought I was crazy”

Q We're gonna do a quick fire on, otherwise I'm gonna be completely unable to afford your, um, brilliant therapy session fees. Um, David Geffen is your mentor, and so I say a statement or a quick question, and you give me your 62nd thoughts. David Geffen is your mentor. What's the best advice he's given you?

A He's given me so many pieces of great advice. Um, David Geffen told me that in a hundred years, no one's gonna remember him, so they sure as hell won't remember me, so don't have an ego. Um, and I think he's right. In a hundred years, you know, people remember my, they'll feel my impact, but they won't remember me. So don't treat myself like I'm something special. Uh, the other thing he said to me, which was very powerful was, if you have people calling you saying, oh, you need to know this person's talking shit about you. You should probably remove those people from your life too, because half the time they're talking about someone who you don't even see anymore, or they're barely in your life, and all they're doing is stirring up drama.

AI assessment note: “David Geffen told me that in a hundred years, no one's gonna remember him”

Q How do you deal with that? I mean, I guess I'm random.

A Look, I always, I always said, oh, I took the high road and everything else. I was going through stuff in my personal life. I really didn't have the bandwidth to deal with it, and it did hurt, because the day before it happened, I had never had any negative news about me in our entire industry. I never had an issue with anybody, um, and then suddenly overnight, because someone said something, I was a bully. What I realized, though, is I started to go out in public and say, I'm not going to be a hermit to this, and not one person has ever said anything negative to me in public. So I will tell you, the internet is not a real place. Dave Chappelle says that all the time. Twitter is not a real place. So if someone is taking time out of their day to write you something negative and they don't even know you online, it's usually because they're hurting. You know, it's not real. And the other thing I can tell you is if someone has over a hundred million followers and 10,000 are yelling you at the same time, it seems extraordinarily loud, but it's less than one percent. You know, so it's not real. And I knew that from handling my own clients. I think the thing I took pride in that moment Was that no one else said it. You know, a lot of times when, when someone comes out and says, oh, this whole time, this person's been this way, there's an onslaught of everyone coming out, coming out an…

AI assessment note: “So I will tell you, the internet is not a real place.”

Q Do you run towards conflict? You said the word conflict. I run away from it. It's one of the reasons I'm a terrible manager. I just put, oh, and we spoke about relationship with family. I'm always, I'll pay for conflict to not be there.

A I would not say I run towards conflict now. I think I run towards resistance. Yeah. I think I used to run towards conflict because I had, I had that feeling, what we talked about, I'm not enough. So if someone had an issue, I just ran towards and I want to address it right away because I needed it to be okay. So I could continue feeling good about myself. And I think now I realize that I don't need to do that. So what I run towards is the resistance I find within myself. If I find resistance in myself towards something, then I have something unresolved and I need to look inside myself on what is unresolved and get to that work. If I do that, someone could have a conflict, but if I feel indifferent, I'm not giving it any power so I can move on to what my work is.

AI assessment note: “I would not say I run towards conflict now. I think I run towards resistance.”

Q Do you run towards conflict? You said the word conflict. I run away from it. It's one of the reasons I'm a terrible manager. I just put, oh, and we spoke about relationship with family. I'm always, I'll pay for conflict to not be there.

A I would not say I run towards conflict now. I think I run towards resistance. Yeah. I think I used to run towards conflict because I had, I had that feeling, what we talked about, I'm not enough. So if someone had an issue, I just ran towards and I want to address it right away because I needed it to be okay. So I could continue feeling good about myself. And I think now I realize that I don't need to do that. So what I run towards is the resistance I find within myself. If I find resistance in myself towards something, then I have something unresolved and I need to look inside myself on what is unresolved and get to that work. If I do that, someone could have a conflict, but if I feel indifferent, I'm not giving it any power so I can move on to what my work is.

AI assessment note: “I would not say I run towards conflict now. I think I run towards resistance.”

Q What was the favorite memory from working with Justin?

A My favorite moment of working with Justin is not like the stage or the accolades. It was backstage moments. It was laughing together. It was watching him do make a wish grants when no one knew he was doing it. Um, it was, uh, When all the noise is gone and all the people talking in both of our ears and all the, you know, all the stuff that, you know, has come into our lives. When it was, when it's just, when it's just us, like those moments, um, those are the ones I cherish the most. And that's why we'll always have a special relationship because it was just. We created something very special together and he is one of the most talented people I've ever met in my life, but also one of the bravest people I've ever met in my life to be, you know, to be able to do that through his adolescence and then to transition into adulthood and become the man he's become and I think I'm always proud of them.

AI assessment note: “My favorite moment of working with Justin is not like the stage or the accolades.”

Q You said about the next chapter that I do want to discuss the investing first, like what was the first deal and how did you get into venture investing before we touch on TQ?

A I was a big college party promoter and I used to pay a hacker to, um, every time I got kicked out of the EDU databases at the colleges, I'd pay this kid like four or 500 bucks to log back in and hack back in and get me all the addresses so I could blast the kids. Um, and then something called the Facebook.com launched, and Emory was one of the first, like, A or 12 schools. And I was like, wait a second, I can use this, the Facebook.com to, like, get to all the kids. And I contacted Mark Zuckerberg, and then he put me in touch with the, at the time, it said, I think it was like, you know, Master of Coin Eduardo Saverin was, like, on the contact page. And he put me in touch with Eduardo, and we started negotiating, and I was trying to invest a hundred grand for 10% of Facebook. And, uh, we had emails going back and forth, and then Eduardo wrote me, um, at my SosoDef email address, because I was working at SosoDef at the time. Hey, Mark wants to launch 32 more schools in two weeks. He's decided he doesn't want to take any capital. I found out years later, because I saw Eduardo in Singapore, that I had no chance of getting in, because Eduardo was pushed out at that point, and that anyone negotiating with Eduardo, Mark wasn't going to let in. But also, he wasn't going to take any money, because he was launching more schools. So I, I had broken up with my high school sweetheart. She …

AI assessment note: “I was trying to invest a hundred grand for 10% of Facebook.”

Q Do you know what I actually feel? I actually feel, if I build them, then I'll be worthy.

A And that's the whole thing. It's, it's, you're projecting. Look, it's, it's the shame lie that I had and you have. It's what I see in you. I see a lot of me. We both have this thing that we're not enough. That, you know, like, who would ever love us if we just showed up as ourselves without the achievements? And that comes from childhood. It's why, you know, you asked me about the place Hoffman that I went to, and that was the first time since I was six years old that I liked my name Scott. And I realized I had been building this mask scooter for all these years. And that place helped me realize that I'm okay being me, and I'm still doing that work every single day. And I'm okay being a mess. And I told you the hardest part of getting to the other side of that work and then continuing it is so many people who knew that version that was filled with so much fear that built this beautiful thing. And I was proud, like what I built as a mask of scooter, it was a beautiful thing. And we'll talk about a lot of that. I know. And I'm very proud of that. But you, you deserve to have both. You deserve to have the version of you that's tough out there, that's achieving and everything else, but you also deserve to have that inner child. You know, what, what were you called as a kid?

AI assessment note: “It's the shame lie that I had and you have. It's what I see in you.”

Q Can I say who's there for you? We spoke earlier about, you know, um, I'm, I'm there for a lot of people, you know, people in the family and particular, and then booze was there for me. Alcohol was there for me. And that was a crutch and great. It worked. Who's there for you at the end of the day? Cause you're there for so many.

A You know, my grandmother died, um, a little over six years ago. Eight days later, my second son was born and I was really depressed losing her, but I didn't tell anyone cause I had to be there for my father. My mom was being there for my dad. You know, I would, I'd always be the fixer. Right. And then I had to jump in and have a child and And I realized no one asked if I was okay. And I got very depressed again because, you know, no one asked. And, and, uh, my wife at the time, Yale said something really beautiful to me. She goes, that's your fault. You don't share with people who you are. You're not vulnerable with people and, and telling them so they don't know to ask what you're doing now, doing this podcast and being this vulnerable. There are a lot of people who want to be there for you. Strangers who I've checked your Twitter and I've seen the comments like, People really are falling in love with the vulnerability of what you share. I did. That's why I came, because you spoke to me in a way that I was like, this is a really good guy searching for answers just like me. So when you ask who's there for me, since I've done this work, not only are there a lot of people there for me, but I also came to the realization that there were always a lot of people there for me. And I just wasn't letting them in because I thought that it was weak to do so.

AI assessment note: “not only are there a lot of people there for me”

Q Do you remember your first deal? I remember getting some of the wine instructions, you know, like, 50 K to a random bank, you know, like, wow, shit.

A I remember one of my first deals, everyone thought I was crazy on my, on my team, because I had a new business manager, I was starting to make some money, and, um, it was a company that was valued at four hundred million dollars in San Francisco, and it was only in San Francisco, and it was a cab company called Uber. And, uh, it was Uber car. And, um, and the only reason I knew about it is I'd gone up there to see another tech founder that I didn't get in on. And he called me an Uber and the experience blew my mind. And then someone brought it to me and I was asking about it and they're like, oh, you gotta meet this guy. He's raising for it. My team was like, this is crazy. You shouldn't do this. And I'm very grateful that I did. Travis is one of the best founders I've ever met my entire life.

AI assessment note: “I remember one of my first deals”

Q First question, when you called your dad and told him at that moment, what were you looking for? You've spoken for about my relationship with my father, and I always seek his, like, pride and satisfaction and approval. What did you want him to say when you called him to tell him about your number?

A Look, I think it's a lot easier at this perspective in my life to know what I was looking for. I think I wanted... I always wanted to be an example to other people. Right. And that seemed like a good thing because then I could, I would give to charity and I would build a big business and I would have this perfect life. And I would, you know, say to my dad, look how successful your son had become, even though he was a college dropout and you were so worried about him. And even though I did things differently, I had an idea of what I wanted to build, but it was always projecting outward. It was always, if I do this, And I see you smiling at me because I have a feeling you relate to this. If Harry Stebbings builds this VC firm, if Harry Stebbings builds this media company, if these help people, if he can be an example to other people of success, then he doesn't have to tell everyone that The fear that he has, or the frustration he has, or the childhood that he had, that he had to step up to always be an example, because if he just sat there and didn't do anything, he never knew if that was okay.

AI assessment note: “say to my dad, look how successful your son had become”

Q How do you deal with that? I mean, I guess I'm random.

A Look, I always, I always said, oh, I took the high road and everything else. I was going through stuff in my personal life. I really didn't have the bandwidth to deal with it, and it did hurt, because the day before it happened, I had never had any negative news about me in our entire industry. I never had an issue with anybody, um, and then suddenly overnight, because someone said something, I was a bully. What I realized, though, is I started to go out in public and say, I'm not going to be a hermit to this, and not one person has ever said anything negative to me in public. So I will tell you, the internet is not a real place. Dave Chappelle says that all the time. Twitter is not a real place. So if someone is taking time out of their day to write you something negative and they don't even know you online, it's usually because they're hurting. You know, it's not real. And the other thing I can tell you is if someone has over a hundred million followers and 10,000 are yelling you at the same time, it seems extraordinarily loud, but it's less than one percent. You know, so it's not real. And I knew that from handling my own clients. I think the thing I took pride in that moment Was that no one else said it. You know, a lot of times when, when someone comes out and says, oh, this whole time, this person's been this way, there's an onslaught of everyone coming out, coming out an…

AI assessment note: “What I realized, though, is I started to go out in public”

Q Can I say who's there for you? We spoke earlier about, you know, um, I'm, I'm there for a lot of people, you know, people in the family and particular, and then booze was there for me. Alcohol was there for me. And that was a crutch and great. It worked. Who's there for you at the end of the day? Cause you're there for so many.

A You know, my grandmother died, um, a little over six years ago. Eight days later, my second son was born and I was really depressed losing her, but I didn't tell anyone cause I had to be there for my father. My mom was being there for my dad. You know, I would, I'd always be the fixer. Right. And then I had to jump in and have a child and And I realized no one asked if I was okay. And I got very depressed again because, you know, no one asked. And, and, uh, my wife at the time, Yale said something really beautiful to me. She goes, that's your fault. You don't share with people who you are. You're not vulnerable with people and, and telling them so they don't know to ask what you're doing now, doing this podcast and being this vulnerable. There are a lot of people who want to be there for you. Strangers who I've checked your Twitter and I've seen the comments like, People really are falling in love with the vulnerability of what you share. I did. That's why I came, because you spoke to me in a way that I was like, this is a really good guy searching for answers just like me. So when you ask who's there for me, since I've done this work, not only are there a lot of people there for me, but I also came to the realization that there were always a lot of people there for me. And I just wasn't letting them in because I thought that it was weak to do so.

AI assessment note: “there are a lot of people there for me, but I also came to the realization”

Q Did you feel like you were letting your parents down?

A I thought I was letting everyone down. I thought I was letting down the kid who I said on a podcast that, you know, I, I want to show that you can be a good executive and a good husband and a good father and all the, all this stuff that I did. And I realized, you know, You put your relationship on a pedestal. You're not paying attention to your relationship. And you know, it's, uh, I, I, the next time around it's for me and for them and, and I'm not, not interested in projecting or anything like that. It's, it's, I learned a lot and I can tell you that moment in my life was the moment where this story that I had built of scooter. Wasn't working. And if I didn't have scooter, then what's underneath, but I hadn't had a foundation of Scott. And that's why I started to crumble.

AI assessment note: “I thought I was letting everyone down.”

Q What was the favorite memory from working with Justin?

A My favorite moment of working with Justin is not like the stage or the accolades. It was backstage moments. It was laughing together. It was watching him do make a wish grants when no one knew he was doing it. Um, it was, uh, When all the noise is gone and all the people talking in both of our ears and all the, you know, all the stuff that, you know, has come into our lives. When it was, when it's just, when it's just us, like those moments, um, those are the ones I cherish the most. And that's why we'll always have a special relationship because it was just. We created something very special together and he is one of the most talented people I've ever met in my life, but also one of the bravest people I've ever met in my life to be, you know, to be able to do that through his adolescence and then to transition into adulthood and become the man he's become and I think I'm always proud of them.

AI assessment note: “It was watching him do make a wish grants when no one knew he was doing it.”

Q Huh. How long ago, like, how recent is this?

A It's only over the last two, three years. And I think I'm, I'm perfectly fine being called Scooter. I'm very proud of the achievements of, but when you asked me that question, even though I posed it to you, I felt this visceral reaction inside of me of, well, then he's asking the wrong person. And I think now that I'm getting back to that version, that I'm accepting that that kid created all this. I'm becoming prouder of myself. So yes, I, I think I'm getting there as I embrace something that a piece, it's actually funny, it's a piece of advice that my grandmother gave me a long time ago, and I've said it so many times, but I think this moment right now is the first time I truly understood it. She said, um, being mature Is loving your 12 year old self. She goes, we get to about 12 with that teenage years. We're like, think we're not cool. We go through all these different things. We start to create that shell. And when you become mature, you actually realize you were always good enough at 12 before you started like going through that teenage insecurity stuff. And I think this moment is when I realized like I was Scott, you know, and I think the closer I, the more I accept that version of me, the more I accept Immersion that doesn't, you know, that I'm proud of me exactly the way I am. Um, then I start to feel more successful. And it's funny because all the things that I thought…

AI assessment note: “It's only over the last two, three years.”

Q How did divorce change your mindset? If that's with kids, how did divorce change it?

A You asked me earlier what was the biggest catalyst in my life business-wise, but you didn't ask what was the biggest catalyst in my life. It was divorce. It was the destruction of the narrative. It was, I had built a life that I thought everyone could be proud of. And a relationship is a one-on-one project, not a community project. And I was, I was projecting out all the time of this. You watch even podcasts that I did when I was married. I was always put on a pedestal and everything else. And I had a good marriage. Like we loved each other and we didn't fight and there's nothing like that. It was just, I wasn't present. I wasn't present enough, you know, and our trauma met up perfectly. And I think we were We are in each other's lives to be partners for those kids forever. We've got three beautiful kids. She's a wonderful person. Um, I'm grateful that it's her. Uh, but when that happened and we couldn't get back The pain of that caused me to do something I'd never done before, which was do this work. Um, that pain caused me to hit rock bottom.

AI assessment note: “The pain of that caused me to do something I'd never done before”

Q What's the biggest challenge that you see in the incredible scaling trajectory of the people that you work with? When you look at Justin when you started, and then many others when you start, and then where they are today, what is the challenge?

A I'll think of Ariana because I just saw her yesterday for dinner. And I'm only just using her as an example. I mean, this is someone who lost someone she loved. Um, this is someone who had a very public Uh, breakup. Multiple times. Um, this is someone who then had to live through a terrorist attack at her own show. Um, and this is someone who had to grow up in the public eye as a child and came from a home with two parents who weren't together and, you know, is one of the most talented people ever. And she and I talked about it yesterday. One of the reasons why she feels so much is because I think when people are that talented, I mean, she can impersonate anybody. Um, she feels everything. She's a true empath. And I think the world can become very scary for someone who feels everything. Especially when there's so much of a spotlight on the world back on you. And I think we live in this world where everyone gets a 140 characters and truth doesn't really matter. You know, someone gets a little momentum with the story and it just starts to go. And I think having to work with people in that situation. And have them at a very young age have to learn that bravery is one inspiring, but also it's hard to navigate at times. And I was a kid. I was, I mean, you have to understand I was your age when I discovered Justin.

AI assessment note: “I think the world can become very scary for someone who feels everything.”

Q How did divorce change your mindset? If that's with kids, how did divorce change it?

A You asked me earlier what was the biggest catalyst in my life business-wise, but you didn't ask what was the biggest catalyst in my life. It was divorce. It was the destruction of the narrative. It was, I had built a life that I thought everyone could be proud of. And a relationship is a one-on-one project, not a community project. And I was, I was projecting out all the time of this. You watch even podcasts that I did when I was married. I was always put on a pedestal and everything else. And I had a good marriage. Like we loved each other and we didn't fight and there's nothing like that. It was just, I wasn't present. I wasn't present enough, you know, and our trauma met up perfectly. And I think we were We are in each other's lives to be partners for those kids forever. We've got three beautiful kids. She's a wonderful person. Um, I'm grateful that it's her. Uh, but when that happened and we couldn't get back The pain of that caused me to do something I'd never done before, which was do this work. Um, that pain caused me to hit rock bottom.

AI assessment note: “It was divorce. It was the destruction of the narrative.”

Q Did you feel like you were letting your parents down?

A I thought I was letting everyone down. I thought I was letting down the kid who I said on a podcast that, you know, I, I want to show that you can be a good executive and a good husband and a good father and all the, all this stuff that I did. And I realized, you know, You put your relationship on a pedestal. You're not paying attention to your relationship. And you know, it's, uh, I, I, the next time around it's for me and for them and, and I'm not, not interested in projecting or anything like that. It's, it's, I learned a lot and I can tell you that moment in my life was the moment where this story that I had built of scooter. Wasn't working. And if I didn't have scooter, then what's underneath, but I hadn't had a foundation of Scott. And that's why I started to crumble.

AI assessment note: “I thought I was letting everyone down.”

Q You said there about kind of the transaction and how they don't focus on the transaction itself. It's kind of ironic because, you know, so many people said you are one of the best deal makers when I did my research. And it's kind of the antithesis of the transaction, actually. So what do you think about successful deal making?

A So my mom's dad died when she was 11. When she was about 1819, my grandmother remarried. That was my grandma on the other side, not the one who died when my kid was six. Um, and I had a grandfather who raised me as his own, uh, named Irving, and he started a department store in the Catskill Mountains called Sullivan's, and he was one of the most successful businessmen in that entire area of this, like, mountain towns, right? And he was just this incredible entrepreneur of that community. And he realized I had a business mind very early on, and I was kind of the one in the family that did. And he told me before he passed, he passed my freshman year of college. And he said to me, the best deals are the ones where everybody wins. He goes, the greatest negotiations are the ones where everyone feels good about it. So when I've negotiated, I've been tough. But I've always tried to get it to a place where it's fair. I never wanted anyone looking and saying, I got a raw deal out of that. Um, and I also learned that if I got the raw deal, I had to stand by it. If I made the deal, I stand by it. So if I said to someone, Hey, we're going to do this. And then we start working and they're not pulling their weight, but I gave my word. I'll stand by my word because keeping that is more important than actually for me, you know, proving, okay, this needs to change.

AI assessment note: “the best deals are the ones where everybody wins”

Q I really appreciate that, man. It's, uh, I'm also, you get nervous when you open up. Do you know what I mean? You're like, oh God, you feel very naked.

A Yeah. I, I was with, um, a founder yesterday. I met with a new company. And we had this really great thing and I was giving him this kind of advice because he was pushing on me to give it to him. He's younger than me. And I, I, I don't want to feel preachy. You know what I mean? Like, I don't want to feel like the old man. And, um, and at the end he said, he goes, just, you know, when I was doing my research, there are some people who say you're a shark that like, you are, you know, you're like an amazing deal maker, but like, you're a shark. You got to watch out for you. And I felt this need in a moment to like get defensive. Right. To be like, well, who are those people? And do they really know me? And I caught myself and I went, look, I don't know what to tell you. If they said that, they have a reason that they said that, but, you know, I'm going to present myself the way I'm going to present myself to you, and I know who I am, and, you know, it was, and I wouldn't have done that five years ago. Five years ago, I would have found myself for 20 minutes defending myself and saying, I want to know who that person is, and, and all this different stuff, and, you know, who said that, and it doesn't matter, because the truth is, we're all living our own experience, and misinterpreting each other, and, Sometimes we're telling the truth and sometimes people see truth in you that you…

AI assessment note: “I felt this need in a moment to like get defensive.”

Q I really appreciate that, man. It's, uh, I'm also, you get nervous when you open up. Do you know what I mean? You're like, oh God, you feel very naked.

A Yeah. I, I was with, um, a founder yesterday. I met with a new company. And we had this really great thing and I was giving him this kind of advice because he was pushing on me to give it to him. He's younger than me. And I, I, I don't want to feel preachy. You know what I mean? Like, I don't want to feel like the old man. And, um, and at the end he said, he goes, just, you know, when I was doing my research, there are some people who say you're a shark that like, you are, you know, you're like an amazing deal maker, but like, you're a shark. You got to watch out for you. And I felt this need in a moment to like get defensive. Right. To be like, well, who are those people? And do they really know me? And I caught myself and I went, look, I don't know what to tell you. If they said that, they have a reason that they said that, but, you know, I'm going to present myself the way I'm going to present myself to you, and I know who I am, and, you know, it was, and I wouldn't have done that five years ago. Five years ago, I would have found myself for 20 minutes defending myself and saying, I want to know who that person is, and, and all this different stuff, and, you know, who said that, and it doesn't matter, because the truth is, we're all living our own experience, and misinterpreting each other, and, Sometimes we're telling the truth and sometimes people see truth in you that you…

AI assessment note: “I felt this need in a moment to like get defensive.”

Q Huh. How long ago, like, how recent is this?

A It's only over the last two, three years. And I think I'm, I'm perfectly fine being called Scooter. I'm very proud of the achievements of, but when you asked me that question, even though I posed it to you, I felt this visceral reaction inside of me of, well, then he's asking the wrong person. And I think now that I'm getting back to that version, that I'm accepting that that kid created all this. I'm becoming prouder of myself. So yes, I, I think I'm getting there as I embrace something that a piece, it's actually funny, it's a piece of advice that my grandmother gave me a long time ago, and I've said it so many times, but I think this moment right now is the first time I truly understood it. She said, um, being mature Is loving your 12 year old self. She goes, we get to about 12 with that teenage years. We're like, think we're not cool. We go through all these different things. We start to create that shell. And when you become mature, you actually realize you were always good enough at 12 before you started like going through that teenage insecurity stuff. And I think this moment is when I realized like I was Scott, you know, and I think the closer I, the more I accept that version of me, the more I accept Immersion that doesn't, you know, that I'm proud of me exactly the way I am. Um, then I start to feel more successful. And it's funny because all the things that I thought…

AI assessment note: “It's only over the last two, three years.”