The Exchanges

Q Talking about kind of private equity and value creation, I'd love to discuss kind of IPOs. A lot of VCs say there's not enough IPOs in Europe. Uh, you listed Trivago on, on NASDAQ, um, over Europe. Talk to me, what was the decision making process behind that decision?

A I think like looking at Trivago business model, there is a set of Peers. So, so set of company who, who you would say like in the same space as us, every single one of them is listed in the U S yeah. So there is none of them is really listed in Europe. And I think that is always one of the major things, but what you're looking at also say, because, uh, you know, looking at analyst coverage, so people basically bring also transparency again into the market, right? It's good if they really understand the market. So, and, and of course experience shapes that. So if they really, you know, have like covered Like our, our peer for like five years or longer. Um, of course they have a lot of experience and they can bring a lot of transparency. And, uh, and that is, that's true for, for the U S and also at the end, you ending also up like, you know, in lots of discussion, of course, with investors, you know, you go around and you also, you know, you try to learn a lot about your business actually. So at least I do that. So if I talking to investors, I think that's always a great chance for me to learn more about my business. And actually, I do. Every time. Every single time.

AI assessment note: “every single one of them is listed in the U S”

Q Talking about kind of private equity and value creation, I'd love to discuss kind of IPOs. A lot of VCs say there's not enough IPOs in Europe. Uh, you listed Trivago on, on NASDAQ, um, over Europe. Talk to me, what was the decision making process behind that decision?

A I think like looking at Trivago business model, there is a set of Peers. So, so set of company who, who you would say like in the same space as us, every single one of them is listed in the U S yeah. So there is none of them is really listed in Europe. And I think that is always one of the major things, but what you're looking at also say, because, uh, you know, looking at analyst coverage, so people basically bring also transparency again into the market, right? It's good if they really understand the market. So, and, and of course experience shapes that. So if they really, you know, have like covered Like our, our peer for like five years or longer. Um, of course they have a lot of experience and they can bring a lot of transparency. And, uh, and that is, that's true for, for the U S and also at the end, you ending also up like, you know, in lots of discussion, of course, with investors, you know, you go around and you also, you know, you try to learn a lot about your business actually. So at least I do that. So if I talking to investors, I think that's always a great chance for me to learn more about my business. And actually, I do. Every time. Every single time.

AI assessment note: “looking at Trivago business model, there is a set of Peers... listed in the U S”

Q Would you advocate for a non-hierarchical structure then?

A Yes, of course. Of course. Yeah. You need to organize the company in a specific way, and we always also try to do that, but, but for, for example, we, we just started a leadership model, which is, which has really no clear hierarchy anymore, uh, not even an unclear one. So, so, um, we, we went really one step further again, you know, where we, and, and, and then it's very, of course, it gets more complicated to still organize the company in a way, but it's possible, yeah? I think, I think it's really possible, and, and, and I mean, What we, what we're trying to do, you know, and that is the old thing, you know, and the old thing that we do since a very long time that we have seen very early in the development of Trivago, for example, that we don't, don't have titles in the company, um, because we, we think like title is just a very artificial manifestation of power, yeah, and you don't need that actually, and, and This is not the only thing that you have to do, but it's one thing, you know, because basically you, you're reducing, reducing the distance between yourself and others, and you're making yourself and others not comparable, and you, you, you're stopping this kind of comparison within the company, and, and I think that is already a good start, but of course you're still having kind of, yeah, you're having hierarchies, you're having like people at the end, you know, taki…

AI assessment note: “Yes, of course. Of course. Yeah.”

Q Can I ask, what's your take then on the market as a whole? When you see a large amount of startups raising a huge amount of money, like you did in the early boom days, what's your take on that and kind of advice to the wider entrepreneurial ecosystem?

A I think it's always problematic if there's not enough transparency in a market. And, uh, and we have seen the good and the bad of both. So I think when you're looking at this, it's nine, nine, nine, nine, 2000, uh, boom, I think there was also not a lot of transparency and not a lot, a lot of experience around business models. So, so basically money was floating into the market, but too much money because people, because people were not transparent about what's going to happen. They thought, okay, Basically the story of Alando eBay, the Samba story in Germany, that can be recreated again and again. Of course they were wrong in that time, but missing transparency can also lead to the opposite. So missing transparency can also lead to a situation where capital is not liquid enough and where capital is not going to the good ideas. And I think today we are definitely in a different stage of that market. So I think there is probably less volatility today. So I would not assume that the same thing happens today again that happened, uh, 15 years ago or so, yeah? So, so maybe there's still a lot of capital, maybe sometimes it's too much in the whole ecosystem, and in Europe I would say it's a little more realistic, but what you still can see, basically, the more you're going from the centers of venture capital, you know, like we're going from Silicon Valley, you're going from Silicon V…

AI assessment note: “I think today we are definitely in a different stage of that market.”

Q Would you advocate for a non-hierarchical structure then?

A Yes, of course. Of course. Yeah. You need to organize the company in a specific way, and we always also try to do that, but, but for, for example, we, we just started a leadership model, which is, which has really no clear hierarchy anymore, uh, not even an unclear one. So, so, um, we, we went really one step further again, you know, where we, and, and, and then it's very, of course, it gets more complicated to still organize the company in a way, but it's possible, yeah? I think, I think it's really possible, and, and, and I mean, What we, what we're trying to do, you know, and that is the old thing, you know, and the old thing that we do since a very long time that we have seen very early in the development of Trivago, for example, that we don't, don't have titles in the company, um, because we, we think like title is just a very artificial manifestation of power, yeah, and you don't need that actually, and, and This is not the only thing that you have to do, but it's one thing, you know, because basically you, you're reducing, reducing the distance between yourself and others, and you're making yourself and others not comparable, and you, you, you're stopping this kind of comparison within the company, and, and I think that is already a good start, but of course you're still having kind of, yeah, you're having hierarchies, you're having like people at the end, you know, taki…

AI assessment note: “Yes, of course. Of course. Yeah. You need to organize the company in a specific way”

Q Can I ask, what's your take then on the market as a whole? When you see a large amount of startups raising a huge amount of money, like you did in the early boom days, what's your take on that and kind of advice to the wider entrepreneurial ecosystem?

A I think it's always problematic if there's not enough transparency in a market. And, uh, and we have seen the good and the bad of both. So I think when you're looking at this, it's nine, nine, nine, nine, 2000, uh, boom, I think there was also not a lot of transparency and not a lot, a lot of experience around business models. So, so basically money was floating into the market, but too much money because people, because people were not transparent about what's going to happen. They thought, okay, Basically the story of Alando eBay, the Samba story in Germany, that can be recreated again and again. Of course they were wrong in that time, but missing transparency can also lead to the opposite. So missing transparency can also lead to a situation where capital is not liquid enough and where capital is not going to the good ideas. And I think today we are definitely in a different stage of that market. So I think there is probably less volatility today. So I would not assume that the same thing happens today again that happened, uh, 15 years ago or so, yeah? So, so maybe there's still a lot of capital, maybe sometimes it's too much in the whole ecosystem, and in Europe I would say it's a little more realistic, but what you still can see, basically, the more you're going from the centers of venture capital, you know, like we're going from Silicon Valley, you're going from Silicon V…

AI assessment note: “I think today we are definitely in a different stage of that market.”

Q Can I ask, what makes you say they've lost their own business model?

A I don't know. I mean, this is, of course, like, I know it's a quiet Strong thesis, but, but basically, but basically, you know, I mean, like a company who, who was building, uh, sailboats, uh, for, for a hundred years, and, and then, and then basically people find out that a sailboat is way slower than, than, uh, a steamboat, and, um, and at, at the end, you know, you think about, should I build now a steamboat, and to think, but, but I cannot take away something, because, because a sailboat, basically what makes it successful is how the sails are done, you know, and, And so if, if I, if I take this away, you know, basically there's not so much competency left. So, so I, I doesn't make sense for me to buy, to build a steamboat. So you basically, you're stuck in that, in that, in that dilemma where, where you basically, you know, your, your competency that you built up over a very long time in the past, that is not, you know, so much valuable anymore. And, and then you have to take the tough decision, which is always maybe a negative decision to say, Hey, okay, you know, I, I will start to build steamboats, but in steamboats, basically my competitive advantage is gone. And also my profitability is gone. So actually for a large company who builds classical engines, maybe the, the, the most value creating, uh, thing they can do is basically build these engines as long as they get …

AI assessment note: “your competency that you built up over a very long time in the past, that is not”

Q Can I ask, what makes you say they've lost their own business model?

A I don't know. I mean, this is, of course, like, I know it's a quiet Strong thesis, but, but basically, but basically, you know, I mean, like a company who, who was building, uh, sailboats, uh, for, for a hundred years, and, and then, and then basically people find out that a sailboat is way slower than, than, uh, a steamboat, and, um, and at, at the end, you know, you think about, should I build now a steamboat, and to think, but, but I cannot take away something, because, because a sailboat, basically what makes it successful is how the sails are done, you know, and, And so if, if I, if I take this away, you know, basically there's not so much competency left. So, so I, I doesn't make sense for me to buy, to build a steamboat. So you basically, you're stuck in that, in that, in that dilemma where, where you basically, you know, your, your competency that you built up over a very long time in the past, that is not, you know, so much valuable anymore. And, and then you have to take the tough decision, which is always maybe a negative decision to say, Hey, okay, you know, I, I will start to build steamboats, but in steamboats, basically my competitive advantage is gone. And also my profitability is gone. So actually for a large company who builds classical engines, maybe the, the, the most value creating, uh, thing they can do is basically build these engines as long as they get …

AI assessment note: “basically my competitive advantage is gone. And also my profitability is gone.”

Q Do you think we'll see then the rise of the syndicate model? That, that very much sounded like the syndicate model where one person takes a lead role, takes the DD process under their wings, and really enacts as the lead and cornerstone investor, and the rest follow believing the powers of the lead investor. Do you think then we'll see a continued rise of that?

A I think, I think it's definitely one model which drives transparency, right? I would think it's not probably the most effective one. I mean, you know, I mean, you have, you have always free rider problems in such a situation, and so, I mean, they, they're also getting solved. But I, I think we will see different approaches there, and, uh, and that's, that's one of them. Now, but, but I think, I think it will go into many directions. So I think, lately, I talked to CFO of a very large bank, and, and he also asked me, okay, you know, what do you think, so where is our business going, you know, and I really truly think is that, I mean, we will see way more change through disruption in the future. So I think, I think what we've seen in the past, I think that was only a first idea what's coming up in the next 20 years. So basically disruption will go faster and faster. So, so we will not see in the future cycles of companies like being 20, 50 or a hundred years old. I think that will not happen anymore. Yeah. If you think about that situation, so if you're saying the lifetime of a company becomes shorter and shorter and shorter, I think the model of the classical banks, at least a B to B model of classical banks, I think that it has to change. It has to definitely change. And, and I told him, see, you know, the only chance basically that you have, you have to be, you have to create …

AI assessment note: “I think we will see different approaches there... but I think it will go into many directions.”

Q Do you think we'll see then the rise of the syndicate model? That, that very much sounded like the syndicate model where one person takes a lead role, takes the DD process under their wings, and really enacts as the lead and cornerstone investor, and the rest follow believing the powers of the lead investor. Do you think then we'll see a continued rise of that?

A I think, I think it's definitely one model which drives transparency, right? I would think it's not probably the most effective one. I mean, you know, I mean, you have, you have always free rider problems in such a situation, and so, I mean, they, they're also getting solved. But I, I think we will see different approaches there, and, uh, and that's, that's one of them. Now, but, but I think, I think it will go into many directions. So I think, lately, I talked to CFO of a very large bank, and, and he also asked me, okay, you know, what do you think, so where is our business going, you know, and I really truly think is that, I mean, we will see way more change through disruption in the future. So I think, I think what we've seen in the past, I think that was only a first idea what's coming up in the next 20 years. So basically disruption will go faster and faster. So, so we will not see in the future cycles of companies like being 20, 50 or a hundred years old. I think that will not happen anymore. Yeah. If you think about that situation, so if you're saying the lifetime of a company becomes shorter and shorter and shorter, I think the model of the classical banks, at least a B to B model of classical banks, I think that it has to change. It has to definitely change. And, and I told him, see, you know, the only chance basically that you have, you have to be, you have to create …

AI assessment note: “I think we will see different approaches there, and, uh, and that's, that's one of them.”

Q Is there anything that founders can do to engender a more transparent communication stream, do you think?

A I think it's a very interesting question. It's a very interesting question. I had lately a discussion with a startup, and they showed me their business model, you know, that was kind of an incubator model, and taking an active role in the company very early in the beginning, and I was not so sure about, you know, what kind of value they were creating for the businesses, and, you know, speaking about that, I thought, you know, Actually, you know, with your context and your overview of like a local market, basically, I was in a large European metropole with your overview, basically, you know, I think you could already add value, like going with a very small percentage into, into that startup and making it just ready, taking their internal control system and bringing them all on a level, you know, where they are comparable. So where, where this company is comparable to another company. So basically you would become kind of a guarantee, like kind of a batch for the company that the numbers are right. Now, because my problem also is, you know, if I'm investing as an angel investor into companies, for me, the problem is, you know, I always have to get used to their business model. I have to get used to their KPI system. I don't know at the end, I have a high risk that, you know, the numbers or not, at least the risk numbers are maybe not right, or they're not correctly measured or wh…

AI assessment note: “taking their internal control system and bringing them all on a level”

Q Is there anything that founders can do to engender a more transparent communication stream, do you think?

A I think it's a very interesting question. It's a very interesting question. I had lately a discussion with a startup, and they showed me their business model, you know, that was kind of an incubator model, and taking an active role in the company very early in the beginning, and I was not so sure about, you know, what kind of value they were creating for the businesses, and, you know, speaking about that, I thought, you know, Actually, you know, with your context and your overview of like a local market, basically, I was in a large European metropole with your overview, basically, you know, I think you could already add value, like going with a very small percentage into, into that startup and making it just ready, taking their internal control system and bringing them all on a level, you know, where they are comparable. So where, where this company is comparable to another company. So basically you would become kind of a guarantee, like kind of a batch for the company that the numbers are right. Now, because my problem also is, you know, if I'm investing as an angel investor into companies, for me, the problem is, you know, I always have to get used to their business model. I have to get used to their KPI system. I don't know at the end, I have a high risk that, you know, the numbers or not, at least the risk numbers are maybe not right, or they're not correctly measured or wh…

AI assessment note: “I had lately a discussion with a startup, and they showed me their business model”