The Exchanges

Q I do have to ask, cause another element of any kind of great leader is actually talent attraction. And when we think about, you know, the UK today, um, I really want to understand what do you think in terms of what do we need to do in the UK to become a global talent hub and to be that talent magnet? What do you think we need to do?

A So this is, this is really important. And I think whenever I speak to people in, in your industry, probably the number one thing they talk to me about is people, right? So your, the success of all your businesses are based on the quality of the people you have. And I wanted to tackle the immigration side of it in the budget. And you said attract, I want this to be the best place for people to come. I want us to be able to attract the best and the brightest. So at the budget, we announced what I think of, Probably the most far reaching set of reforms to high school migration that we've seen in this country for years. Um, so we said we're going to introduce an unsponsored visa, right? So it's not linked to a job. It's a points based unsponsored visa. Uh, we said we're going to launch a new, as part of that, a scale up visa, which is something that, uh, we'd been, what had been recommended to us by the FinTech review that we had done. So, but we're going to broaden it beyond FinTech. So there'll be a specific scale up stream. Uh, we're going to reform our global talent visa because it is quite a, quite a narrow definition of who, who counts as talented. So we're going to broaden it out to a much greater group of people with prizes and accomplishments. And then our innovative visa, which many of your colleagues will be familiar with, um, is, is we're going to reform it to make it e…

AI assessment note: “we announced what I think of, Probably the most far reaching set of reforms”

Q Yeah, you said about the conversation this autumn. Talk to me about that, because we announced it last week, I think. Yes. What, what's the conversation, and how's it going down?

A So I think what I want to do is bring together all those people so that we can consider the, the risks, and make sure we have a good joint understanding of what the different types of risks are, uh, have a, a joint approach to safety and research and evaluation, and then also a conversation about what the right guardrails are that we need to put in place. Now, in that bucket about research and evaluation, I'm delighted that the UK is already playing a leadership role here. Our new task force, AI task force, which we should talk about, has a hundred million pounds, which means that we're investing more in safety research for AI than any government anywhere in the world, and doing so in a way that I think is agile. But also, we're working with the companies themselves, DeepMind, Anthropic, and OpenAI. I'm pleased that they've I said that they will give early or priority access to the models so that we can develop the right type of evaluation and research safety. So I think that's a really positive step forward.

AI assessment note: “bring together all those people so that we can consider the, the risks”

Q I do have to ask, cause another element of any kind of great leader is actually talent attraction. And when we think about, you know, the UK today, um, I really want to understand what do you think in terms of what do we need to do in the UK to become a global talent hub and to be that talent magnet? What do you think we need to do?

A So this is, this is really important. And I think whenever I speak to people in, in your industry, probably the number one thing they talk to me about is people, right? So your, the success of all your businesses are based on the quality of the people you have. And I wanted to tackle the immigration side of it in the budget. And you said attract, I want this to be the best place for people to come. I want us to be able to attract the best and the brightest. So at the budget, we announced what I think of, Probably the most far reaching set of reforms to high school migration that we've seen in this country for years. Um, so we said we're going to introduce an unsponsored visa, right? So it's not linked to a job. It's a points based unsponsored visa. Uh, we said we're going to launch a new, as part of that, a scale up visa, which is something that, uh, we'd been, what had been recommended to us by the FinTech review that we had done. So, but we're going to broaden it beyond FinTech. So there'll be a specific scale up stream. Uh, we're going to reform our global talent visa because it is quite a, quite a narrow definition of who, who counts as talented. So we're going to broaden it out to a much greater group of people with prizes and accomplishments. And then our innovative visa, which many of your colleagues will be familiar with, um, is, is we're going to reform it to make it e…

AI assessment note: “I wanted to tackle the immigration side of it in the budget.”

Q But I do want to, I always think, bluntly, um, you're not humanized enough. Like, there's a human Rishi behind the brand, and I always think, I really want to know what that's like. So, I'm going to ask you some really humoring questions, that actually, most people want to know. What does your morning look like, Rishi? What time do you get up? What's your go-to for breakfast? Like,

A Right, ok. Uh, morning. So, I mean, what time do I get? I get up any, I, I mean, I get up later than I used to, because I'm more tired, sadly, than I used to be. Um, so any, anywhere from six to seven in that range, depending on what gym I'm doing. Uh, you know, so I have two young kids, two girls, so part of that is school and everything, getting them ready, uh, for that. Uh, in terms of breakfast, I generally, well, I do some intermittent fasting, so on those days, nothing. Uh, otherwise I probably have Greek yogurt and blueberries during the week. Uh, and then I have a second breakfast mid-morning, which is either the Gale cinnamon morning bun or a pain au chocolat or a chocolate chip muffin. So I have one chocolatey, sugary pastry at some point. And then at the weekend we have a cooked breakfast, full cooked breakfast on Saturdays. And on Sundays we alternate between pancakes and waffles. So we do pancakes, but American style. So the, you know, American thin crispy bacon, Blueberries, strawberries, and pancakes. That's, that's Sunday. And then we interchange pancakes and waffles every week.

AI assessment note: “anywhere from six to seven in that range”

Q Smash the day of concerts. What's the best, and what's the worst part of being PM?

A The, the, you know, the, actually, the best, the best time I feel like I've had in this job is, uh, I, I'm a big cricket fan. I got to play cricket in the garden, Downing Street garden, with some of the T-Twenty, uh, side, the England T-Twenty side. I mean, that, that's, if you're a cricket fan, you get to play cricket with your cricket heroes. That's kind of a neat thing to do. Um, so that was a lot of fun in the garden, um, but probably on a more, on a more serious level. You know, just a little bit of theme of our conversation. I feel that certainly economically, technologically, we're at an Incredibly important time in our country's development. So being prime minister at that time and being responsible for getting that right and making sure that we in the UK and what our families can really benefit from that, uh, is, is important. And that's, that's a kind of great privilege actually. So that, that's the exciting thing about being PM right now. Again, the worst thing is, is I, you touched on it before. It's like, like many people's demanding jobs, you know, when, when they take you away from your family, particularly when you have young kids, that's obviously That's obviously sad, and like many parents, working parents across the country, you know, not being able to spend enough time with your kids is something that you are always sad about.

AI assessment note: “the best time I feel like I've had in this job... Again, the worst thing is”

Q Yeah, you said about the conversation this autumn. Talk to me about that, because we announced it last week, I think. Yes. What, what's the conversation, and how's it going down?

A So I think what I want to do is bring together all those people so that we can consider the, the risks, and make sure we have a good joint understanding of what the different types of risks are, uh, have a, a joint approach to safety and research and evaluation, and then also a conversation about what the right guardrails are that we need to put in place. Now, in that bucket about research and evaluation, I'm delighted that the UK is already playing a leadership role here. Our new task force, AI task force, which we should talk about, has a hundred million pounds, which means that we're investing more in safety research for AI than any government anywhere in the world, and doing so in a way that I think is agile. But also, we're working with the companies themselves, DeepMind, Anthropic, and OpenAI. I'm pleased that they've I said that they will give early or priority access to the models so that we can develop the right type of evaluation and research safety. So I think that's a really positive step forward.

AI assessment note: “bring together all those people so that we can consider the, the risks”

Q Smash the day of concerts. What's the best, and what's the worst part of being PM?

A The, the, you know, the, actually, the best, the best time I feel like I've had in this job is, uh, I, I'm a big cricket fan. I got to play cricket in the garden, Downing Street garden, with some of the T-Twenty, uh, side, the England T-Twenty side. I mean, that, that's, if you're a cricket fan, you get to play cricket with your cricket heroes. That's kind of a neat thing to do. Um, so that was a lot of fun in the garden, um, but probably on a more, on a more serious level. You know, just a little bit of theme of our conversation. I feel that certainly economically, technologically, we're at an Incredibly important time in our country's development. So being prime minister at that time and being responsible for getting that right and making sure that we in the UK and what our families can really benefit from that, uh, is, is important. And that's, that's a kind of great privilege actually. So that, that's the exciting thing about being PM right now. Again, the worst thing is, is I, you touched on it before. It's like, like many people's demanding jobs, you know, when, when they take you away from your family, particularly when you have young kids, that's obviously That's obviously sad, and like many parents, working parents across the country, you know, not being able to spend enough time with your kids is something that you are always sad about.

AI assessment note: “the best time I feel like I've had... Again, the worst thing is”

Q I sympathize in that respect. Can I ask a kind of tough one, but people suggested it before the show. Um, and I'm just, I want to understand more, and it's like, on Entrepreneurs Relief, people were asking about its removal, and I wanted to understand, like, why would it be beneficial to remove it, and like, what's the logic behind it?

A Well, you know what, we talked about branding, actually, before. Like, that's one of these things which is, you know, is misnamed, right? Because it's like, why do you want to get rid of this thing that sounds good for entrepreneurs? You like entrepreneurs, you know, here we are talking about entrepreneurship. So, I think, look, in a nutshell, the relief You know, the relief is not doing what it said on the tin, right? It was, it was being used for lots of other things, and actually had been cited by lots of policy experts, whether it's think tanks or others, as being at a really awful relief. I think one of them called it the UK's worst tax relief. And the reason for that was, you know, you had lots of people who were not genuine entrepreneurs who were able to, to use it to essentially just reduce their tax bill. And that, that's not what it's there for. It was not having any A real impact on people saying, well, I, I, I'm starting this company because of entrepreneurs relief. I mean, how many times have you heard that from anyone you you've met? Um, so I think given all of that, we were able to not scrap it as many people wanted us to do, but reform it. 80% of the people who were using the relief before still benefit from what's been put in place. So actually the vast majority of people, um, who were using it will be unaffected with, but by reforming it, we've managed to tack…

AI assessment note: “people who were not genuine entrepreneurs who were able to, to use it to essentially just reduce their tax bill”

Q ah, I remember watching your first budget, um, and I thought it was one of the best budgets I'd ever seen. I remember watching it with my brother, who doesn't like finance, and he was inspired, and I thought, Jesus, that's, that's quite a thing if you inspired him. Um, but my thing being, were you nervous being in your first budget, and how do you deal with nerves today?

A I, I was very nervous when I did my first budget. I think I'd got the job about three and a half weeks before, and I was extremely nervous. It's a big day in Parliament. It's packed, one of, you know, one of the few occasions where every seat is taken or everyone's standing as well, so it's, um, you know, it's a stressful environment anyway, especially when you've only had the job three weeks. It's the only time, I don't know how I got through it, but the only time my wife has ever come to see me do anything in Parliament was that day. Um, so there's a gallery at the top and she came and sat opposite, um, and, uh, I kept looking up at her a lot, uh, before I, uh, before I started, so that, that's kind of how I just about got through, uh, Um, through that, and then, you know, you get a lot of support from your colleagues. Politics is a team sport, and I've got, you've got lots of your colleagues all around you, and they're willing you to succeed and cheering you on, and that, that really helps. Um, so yeah, a combination of them and, and the unique appearance by my wife in Parliament helped. Uh, and I, you know, how do I deal with it today? Gosh, I don't know if I have any secrets. I guess, first of all, it's okay to be nervous, I guess. I mean, I, I, I'm always, you know, I get nervous when I do, you know, mainly when you do live TV, right? That's, that's probably the thing tha…

AI assessment note: “I was very nervous when I did my first budget.”

Q why I've always set up my own business. I didn't think anyone would ever hire me, which is probably a good thing. I do want to move forward a little bit, though, because then you obviously spent time at Stanford and graduated from Stanford, which is such a unique perspective and ecosystem to be a part of. How do you think that impacted your mindset today, given that unique experience?

A Yeah. What's it known for? I mean, other than, other than the weather is obviously it's, uh, it's, you know, it's a home of entrepreneurship, creativity, innovation, and, and that's, those are, those are probably the most important ways in which it, it changed my life, right? In terms of the trajectory that I was on and it broadened my mindset out considerably because you're in that world surrounded by that culture. And we've tried to bring that into my job here, right? I've talked about Trying to create this startup treasury mentality where we just do things a bit differently. We do things a bit more creatively and innovatively. Um, so that's probably how it's impacted me here. I think the other thing that Stanford does is that it teaches you to think bigger than incrementally. Uh, and I think that was a, that was a change in approach for me, right? You know, just getting out of a more incremental mindset to a slightly, um, a slightly bigger Uh, more dynamic approach to change. And, and probably thirdly, and this is a bit practical, you know, what is it? I was there for an MBA and it's a place that's the home of technology. So those two things have stayed with me, the importance of technology and the importance of actually understanding management and how businesses work, which is why we ultimately created something called help to grow in the budget, which is, I hope will be I…

AI assessment note: “it broadened my mindset out considerably because you're in that world surrounded by that culture”

Q ah, I remember watching your first budget, um, and I thought it was one of the best budgets I'd ever seen. I remember watching it with my brother, who doesn't like finance, and he was inspired, and I thought, Jesus, that's, that's quite a thing if you inspired him. Um, but my thing being, were you nervous being in your first budget, and how do you deal with nerves today?

A I, I was very nervous when I did my first budget. I think I'd got the job about three and a half weeks before, and I was extremely nervous. It's a big day in Parliament. It's packed, one of, you know, one of the few occasions where every seat is taken or everyone's standing as well, so it's, um, you know, it's a stressful environment anyway, especially when you've only had the job three weeks. It's the only time, I don't know how I got through it, but the only time my wife has ever come to see me do anything in Parliament was that day. Um, so there's a gallery at the top and she came and sat opposite, um, and, uh, I kept looking up at her a lot, uh, before I, uh, before I started, so that, that's kind of how I just about got through, uh, Um, through that, and then, you know, you get a lot of support from your colleagues. Politics is a team sport, and I've got, you've got lots of your colleagues all around you, and they're willing you to succeed and cheering you on, and that, that really helps. Um, so yeah, a combination of them and, and the unique appearance by my wife in Parliament helped. Uh, and I, you know, how do I deal with it today? Gosh, I don't know if I have any secrets. I guess, first of all, it's okay to be nervous, I guess. I mean, I, I, I'm always, you know, I get nervous when I do, you know, mainly when you do live TV, right? That's, that's probably the thing tha…

AI assessment note: “I, I was very nervous when I did my first budget.”

Q I sympathize in that respect. Can I ask a kind of tough one, but people suggested it before the show. Um, and I'm just, I want to understand more, and it's like, on Entrepreneurs Relief, people were asking about its removal, and I wanted to understand, like, why would it be beneficial to remove it, and like, what's the logic behind it?

A Well, you know what, we talked about branding, actually, before. Like, that's one of these things which is, you know, is misnamed, right? Because it's like, why do you want to get rid of this thing that sounds good for entrepreneurs? You like entrepreneurs, you know, here we are talking about entrepreneurship. So, I think, look, in a nutshell, the relief You know, the relief is not doing what it said on the tin, right? It was, it was being used for lots of other things, and actually had been cited by lots of policy experts, whether it's think tanks or others, as being at a really awful relief. I think one of them called it the UK's worst tax relief. And the reason for that was, you know, you had lots of people who were not genuine entrepreneurs who were able to, to use it to essentially just reduce their tax bill. And that, that's not what it's there for. It was not having any A real impact on people saying, well, I, I, I'm starting this company because of entrepreneurs relief. I mean, how many times have you heard that from anyone you you've met? Um, so I think given all of that, we were able to not scrap it as many people wanted us to do, but reform it. 80% of the people who were using the relief before still benefit from what's been put in place. So actually the vast majority of people, um, who were using it will be unaffected with, but by reforming it, we've managed to tack…

AI assessment note: “you had lots of people who were not genuine entrepreneurs who were able to”

Q You know why I sympathize in that respect. Can I ask a kind of tough one, but People suggested it before the show, and I'm just, I want to understand more, and it's like, on Entrepreneurs Relief, people were asking about its removal, and I wanted to understand, like, why would it be beneficial to remove it, and like, what's the logic behind it?

A Well, you know what, we talked about branding, actually, before, like, that's one of these things which is misnamed, right, because it's like, why do you want to get rid of this thing that sounds good for entrepreneurs? You like entrepreneurs, you know, here we are talking about the entrepreneurship. So I think, look, in a nutshell, the relief is not doing what it said on the tick, Right. It was being used for lots of other things, and actually had been cited by lots of policy experts, whether it's think tanks or others, as being at a really awful relief. I think one of them called it the UK's worst tax relief. And the reason for that was, you know, you had lots of people who were not genuine entrepreneurs who were able to use it to essentially just reduce their tax bill. And that's not what it's there for. It was not having any real impact on people saying, well, I'm starting this company because of entrepreneurs relief. I mean, how many times have you heard that from anyone you've met? So I think given all of that, we were able to not scrap it as many people wanted us to do, but reform it. 80% of the people who were using the relief before still benefit from what's been put in place. So actually the vast majority of people who were using it will be unaffected. By reforming it, we've managed to tackle some of those things that we didn't like. And if you think more generally ab…

AI assessment note: “the relief is not doing what it said on the tin”

Q I'm sure not the last, but I always love to set a bit of context, and when I was doing my prep for the show, I read that your first job was waiting tables in a restaurant, and I always think these are quite, like, formative roles being the first that we have. So how did that time impact your mindset, and what were the takeaways?

A So you are right. That was one of my first proper jobs, and I guess what it taught me was having a job, whatever the job is, is really important. I mean, I wasn't doing the most glamorous work, right? I was setting up tables, I was clearing them away, cleaning things, doing all the linen at the end of the night, and setting up for the next day, all that stuff. And at some point, I got to take people's drinks orders, which was an upgrade by the end of it. But, you know, so look, it wasn't glamorous work, it was hard work, but it was Amazing to have a job. It was amazing to go to a place for the first time, to do something fulfilling, get paid for it, which is good, but it actually just understanding what it's like to go and work and be part of a team and those skills and that experience is more important than learning how to set a table in that sense. I think the having of a job, regardless of how glamorous or hard it is, is critical, especially when you're young and starting out. So that's probably the most important takeaway. I think the other thing It's in the hospitality industry, and over the last year, it's an industry that's had a really tough time, and it's an industry that I care a lot about. It employs a lot of people like me a long time ago, young people, getting their first start, getting their first paycheck, and it also brings vitality life to our way of life, righ…

AI assessment note: “what it taught me was having a job, whatever the job is, is really important.”

Q one before the quickfire round. I remember watching your first budget, and I thought it was one of the best budgets I'd ever seen. I remember watching it with my brother, who doesn't like finances, And he was inspired, and I thought, Jesus, that's quite a thing if you inspired him. Um, a big being, were you nervous being your first budget, and how do you deal with nerves today?

A I was very nervous when I did my first budget. I think I got the job about three and a half weeks before. Yeah, so I was extremely nervous. It's a big day in Parliament, and it's packed. It's one of the few occasions where every seat is taken, or everyone's standing as well, so it's a stressful environment anyway, especially when you've only had the job three weeks. It's the only time, I don't know how I got through it, but the only time my wife has ever come to see me do anything in Parliament was that day. So there's a gallery at the top, and she came and sat opposite, and kept looking up at her a lot before I started. So that's kind of how I just about got through that. And then, you know, you get a lot of support from your colleagues. Politics is a team sport, and you've got lots of your colleagues all around you, and they're willing you to succeed and cheering you on, and that really helps. So yeah, a combination of them and the unique appearances. My wife in Parliament helped. And, you know, how do I deal with it today? Gosh, I don't know if I have any secret. I guess, first of all, it's okay to be nervous, I guess. You know, I get nervous when I do, you know, mainly when you do live TV, right? That's probably the thing that is most nerve-wracking, because it's unpredictable, and what you say matters, and people pick apart any word or phrase. But I do it when I'm talking …

AI assessment note: “I was very nervous when I did my first budget.”

Q I totally agree with you. How do you think about measuring success of what we do and how we work together?

A Yeah, so one of the things I did was, which was Quite, quite disruptive and radical in a good way was I created a brand new department. You know, the Department for Science, Innovation and Technology, because it was important to me, I wanted to send a strong signal that this agenda is something that government needs to take seriously and do differently. And that department is going to do things differently. It's attracting people from the industry. It's taking a slightly more risk approach to innovation. So I think that that, that is all Powerful. How do we measure success? Look, the traditional things, you know, how much venture capital are we raising here? How many unicorns are we creating here? I think we all know the stats, right? More than France and Germany combined, more unicorns than anywhere apart from the US and, uh, and China. Are the next excited technologies all happening here, whether that's quantum, engineering, biology, AI, et cetera, et cetera, fintech. Like, I think those are all the kind of obvious ways to measure it. Um, but I think, yeah, Are large companies coming to locate here, which they are, right? Actually just incredible announcement today. Andreessen Horowitz, you know, all the world's most successful VC investors opening their first international office here in the UK. And that just comes on the back of Palantir saying that they're going to do thei…

AI assessment note: “How do we measure success? Look, the traditional things, you know, how much venture capital”

Q That was great. Yeah, and final one for you, what do you want your legacy?

A I think. I think these always have to be context specific. And for me, it's important that I restore people's trust in politics. And that means the way I go about this job is different. I want to change how politics is done. So people believe in their politicians, believe in their prime minister, believe in their government, and believe that they're doing the right thing, but also genuinely able to make a difference to their lives. And I go on about these five priorities I have a lot. To halve inflation, grow the economy, reduce debt, cut waiting lists, and stop the boats, because I'm laser focused on delivering those. I said to people, that's what I was going to do, because I believe that's what they want me to do. Those are the country's priorities, and I want them ultimately to feel, you know, he said he was going to do these things, and he worked hard at it, did it in the right way, and made a difference to us. So, you know, it's obviously a work in progress, and we've got a long way to go, but that's what I'm hard at doing.

AI assessment note: “it's important that I restore people's trust in politics.”

Q a lot of time on Twitter. I have a lot more free time than you do. Uh, but you suddenly see people go like, oh wow. And like, this is a real signal. And then you saw a lot more because you'd be like, oh wow, is it the next Miami? And are we seeing this like incredible, uh, Uh, rise again in London. Like, we have done a lot.

A Yeah, I, look, I, I think so. I think success breeds success. I think, as well, given the pace that the tech ecosystem works at, you know, government needs to be responsive to that pace and just constantly show that we're moving forward. And, you know, Andreessen Cumming is great. Lots of people are already here. And I think things are going really well already. But, If I think back, look, this is a country that was at the forefront of the Industrial Revolution. Think of all the things that were invented here in the UK, in steam engines, the forefront of electricity, how we mechanized textiles, you know, how we built modern roads, the process of making steel, the lawnmower saying there's another thing. I mean, you name it, it was invented here. I think we're at the cusp of another period like that, and there's no doubt in my mind that the UK can lead that again as we do in the past.

AI assessment note: “Yeah, I, look, I, I think so. I think success breeds success.”

Q And you need to meet up there. AI task force, hundred million fund. Can you talk to me about that initiative and also where the funding is actually going? Is it companies? Is it to actually kind of AI safety? How do we think about effective deployment?

A I think the first thing is this task force is a bit different. I think it's reflective of how I approach these things. Uh, and the task force is a model on the vaccine task force. It's a little bit arm's length from government. It will be empowered to move at pace, to do things differently. And I think that's important because as you know, probably better than most, right? We, we need to move at pace and someone, I want to find the right person to chair that task force, which we, we haven't announced yet because that process is still going. Who's empowered to do that? And they will make ultimately the decisions to be honest about what the best way to allocate the resources are. But a key part of it is going to be safety research. And, uh, you know, I think it's important that governments develop the capability to do research evaluations, safety evaluations, auditing of these large language models. That's something that the companies themselves are already doing, by the way, and I think they will welcome that. Um, and I want the, the UK not just to be the kind of intellectual home of AI regulation, but also the geographic home. And as I said, we're, we're going to take a lead in that part.

AI assessment note: “a key part of it is going to be safety research”

Q why I've always set up my own business. I didn't think anyone would ever hire me, which is probably a good thing. I do want to move forward a little bit, though, because then you obviously spent time at Stanford and graduated from Stanford, which is such a unique perspective and ecosystem to be a part of. How do you think that impacted your mindset today, given that unique experience?

A Yeah. What's it known for? I mean, other than, other than the weather is obviously it's, uh, it's, you know, it's a home of entrepreneurship, creativity, innovation, and, and that's, those are, those are probably the most important ways in which it, it changed my life, right? In terms of the trajectory that I was on and it broadened my mindset out considerably because you're in that world surrounded by that culture. And we've tried to bring that into my job here, right? I've talked about Trying to create this startup treasury mentality where we just do things a bit differently. We do things a bit more creatively and innovatively. Um, so that's probably how it's impacted me here. I think the other thing that Stanford does is that it teaches you to think bigger than incrementally. Uh, and I think that was a, that was a change in approach for me, right? You know, just getting out of a more incremental mindset to a slightly, um, a slightly bigger Uh, more dynamic approach to change. And, and probably thirdly, and this is a bit practical, you know, what is it? I was there for an MBA and it's a place that's the home of technology. So those two things have stayed with me, the importance of technology and the importance of actually understanding management and how businesses work, which is why we ultimately created something called help to grow in the budget, which is, I hope will be I…

AI assessment note: “it broadened my mindset out considerably because you're in that world surrounded by that culture”

Q I totally agree with you. How do you think about measuring success of what we do and how we work together?

A Yeah, so one of the things I did was, which was Quite, quite disruptive and radical in a good way was I created a brand new department. You know, the Department for Science, Innovation and Technology, because it was important to me, I wanted to send a strong signal that this agenda is something that government needs to take seriously and do differently. And that department is going to do things differently. It's attracting people from the industry. It's taking a slightly more risk approach to innovation. So I think that that, that is all Powerful. How do we measure success? Look, the traditional things, you know, how much venture capital are we raising here? How many unicorns are we creating here? I think we all know the stats, right? More than France and Germany combined, more unicorns than anywhere apart from the US and, uh, and China. Are the next excited technologies all happening here, whether that's quantum, engineering, biology, AI, et cetera, et cetera, fintech. Like, I think those are all the kind of obvious ways to measure it. Um, but I think, yeah, Are large companies coming to locate here, which they are, right? Actually just incredible announcement today. Andreessen Horowitz, you know, all the world's most successful VC investors opening their first international office here in the UK. And that just comes on the back of Palantir saying that they're going to do thei…

AI assessment note: “How do we measure success? Look, the traditional things, you know, how much venture capital”

Q I, I'm sure not the last, but I always love to set a bit of context, and when I was doing my prep for the show, I read that your first job was waiting tables in a restaurant, and I always think these are quite, like, formative roles being the first that we have. So how did that time Impact your mindset and what were the takeaways?

A So you are right. That was one of my first, um, proper jobs. And, you know, I guess what it taught me was, yeah, having a job, whatever the job is, is really important. I mean, I wasn't doing the most glamorous work, right? I was setting up tables. I was clearing them away, you know, cleaning things, uh, doing all the, the linen, uh, at the end of the night and, uh, setting up for the next day, all that stuff. At some point I got to, you know, take people's drinks orders, which was an upgrade by the end of it. But, you know, so look, it wasn't glamorous work. It was hard work, but it was amazing to have a job. It was amazing to go to a place for the first time, to do something fulfilling, you know, you get, you get paid for it, which is, which is good, but it actually just understanding what it's like to go and work and be part of a team and those skills And that experience is probably more important than learning how to set a table in that sense. So just, you know, I think the having of a job, regardless of where, how glamorous or hard it is, is critical, especially when you're, you know, young and starting out. So that's probably, that's probably the most important takeaway. I think the other thing is, look, it was in, it was a restaurant. It's in the hospitality industry. And over the last year, it's an industry that's had a really tough time. And it's an industry that I car…

AI assessment note: “having of a job, regardless of where, how glamorous or hard it is, is critical”

Q mentioned the startup treasury mindset there. I'm just too interested. How do you think about creating that safe place for people coming to work to make those more innovative out there, but also courageous decisions without the fear of maybe failing or repercussions? Because it's a difficult thing as a leader. How do you think about creating that environment where they feel they can Even if it may not work.

A Yeah. It's, you know, it's, it's difficult in business. It's even more difficult in politics and in government, right? Where, you know, we're just not set up well to be able to say, look, we're going to try some things knowing that some of them are not going to work, but it's important that we, that we do things, uh, and, and because, you know, we've got to figure out new ways to do things. And we've tried to do that, right? When we, when we, I've launched so many new policies and schemes over the past 1218 months. Is it going to be the case that every single one of them is brilliant in retrospect? No, probably not, right? But A, we were making policy in a crisis, and you've just got to, you know, we were dealing with a pretty much unprecedented situation. So unsurprisingly, we had to throw some unprecedented solutions at it and not quite know exactly what was going to work, what exactly was going to make the difference. And ultimately, I think what I try and do inside the Treasury is people need to feel confident that I'm willing To go and front them up and ultimately take responsibility for them and explain to the country why we've tried some things, and if they, if they turn out in retrospect not to work, so be it, that's on me. But hopefully that gives them the confidence to come up and present me with interesting ideas, knowing that you've got someone who's willing to try …

AI assessment note: “people need to feel confident that I'm willing To go and front them up”

Q Final one before we move into the meat of the show, but I do just have to ask you, when you have product launches, you have postmortems on how well they went. When you have new policies, like you mentioned there, Do you do postmortems on what went well, what didn't? How do you think about measuring effectiveness and success as a team of the policies that you create?

A Yeah, we, you know, we do, we do. I mean, government has a very formal process where you review policies on some fixed, uh, timeframe, uh, as you might imagine. Um, but we, we, we're constantly doing that because a lot of what I've done is still bedding in, right? So it's not as if it's done. So we're constantly iterating it as it, as it's going. Which again is probably a novel approach, right? And being okay with that. And I'm quite okay with that. Again, easier to do in a pandemic, but happy to say, look, we've started this thing. Some of our loan schemes being a good example of that, and they didn't work day one. And, but that's okay. And we said, look, well, these are clearly not working. We go back and iterate. We're going to change this, change that. And it got it to a place where it did. Um, so I think we're still doing that. And then after the fact we definitely sit down, I do, because I'm constantly on a, You want to be on a journey of continuous improvement, right? You want to just learn from what you did well so you can embed it. The things that didn't go well, learn from them so you don't do them again. So actually we have that mindset generally here that we're always doing that and figuring out what can we do better? What do we learn from our mistakes? But I think that's vital for any organization, right? I mean, that you don't progress without that kind of mindset…

AI assessment note: “Yeah, we, you know, we do, we do. I mean, government has a very formal process”

Q I'm sure not the last, but I always love to set a bit of context, and when I was doing my prep for the show, I read that your first job was waiting tables in a restaurant, and I always think these are quite, like, formative roles being the first that we have. So how did that time impact your mindset, and what were the takeaways?

A So you are right. That was one of my first proper jobs, and I guess what it taught me was having a job, whatever the job is, is really important. I mean, I wasn't doing the most glamorous work, right? I was setting up tables, I was clearing them away, cleaning things, doing all the linen at the end of the night, and setting up for the next day, all that stuff. And at some point, I got to take people's drinks orders, which was an upgrade by the end of it. But, you know, so look, it wasn't glamorous work, it was hard work, but it was Amazing to have a job. It was amazing to go to a place for the first time, to do something fulfilling, get paid for it, which is good, but it actually just understanding what it's like to go and work and be part of a team and those skills and that experience is more important than learning how to set a table in that sense. I think the having of a job, regardless of how glamorous or hard it is, is critical, especially when you're young and starting out. So that's probably the most important takeaway. I think the other thing It's in the hospitality industry, and over the last year, it's an industry that's had a really tough time, and it's an industry that I care a lot about. It employs a lot of people like me a long time ago, young people, getting their first start, getting their first paycheck, and it also brings vitality life to our way of life, righ…

AI assessment note: “what it taught me was having a job, whatever the job is, is really important”

Q Can I ask you a bizarre question? Yeah. I mean, I'm not meant to go off scrubs. When you become PM, do you call your mother and it's...

A Um, I, I can't, you know, gosh, on the day, I'm trying to remember, actually, I don't know if I did. I, actually, I can't remember if I did. It was so busy that day. Um, but no, I, you know, I, I'm very close to them. They, uh, you know, I saw them, actually, I saw them, I saw them yesterday, as it turned out. They came to see us for lunch, but I saw them a few weeks ago, because I was back in Southampton for a football match not that long ago, and they still have season tickets at St. Mary's, and so I got to see them during the game. It was actually quite sweet, because my mum had, um, They were upset because I'd come to visit the pharmacy that my mum ran earlier in the week. I hadn't told them I was back in Southampton. They were very upset. They tried to come and see me. It wasn't possible. And my mum had, uh, had got some Indian sweets that she wanted to give me that she'd made called Burfi that she couldn't give me then, but then she managed to give them to me at football match, um, which was important to her. And oddly enough, I saw President Zelensky on, um, on, on the Monday after that, and he and I were Chatting, and he was hungry, so I actually, I gave him some of my mum's birthy, um, which she was very happy to, yeah, she was thrilled, thrilled by that, so, yeah.

AI assessment note: “I'm trying to remember, actually, I don't know if I did.”

Q And, and then final one, if we sit down in five years time and everything's gone to plan, where would we be Rishi?

A Gosh, uh, yeah, five years time. Well, lots of, lots of people have lost their jobs, you know, in the past year. That's the thing that is motivating me the most is helping people get into work. So, you know, I, five years time, I just want to get everyone into work, get everyone back into work, create as many jobs as possible. Uh, You know, fix our borrowing and debt, which is obviously taken an absolute hammering and get that back under control is an important part of my job. And when I take seriously, it's one of my responsibilities, you know, and lastly, it's that we emerged from this. You know, remaining one of the best places for people to grow their businesses, to create new products, to create new services. This remains the home of, of innovation in all its guises, and that all of that activity ultimately creates new things for people that makes our lives better, um, and richer to lead, but in the process creates employment for people, creates jobs, creates wealth for our country, um, so this is just a fantastic place to be.

AI assessment note: “five years time, I just want to get everyone into work”

Q And then final one, if we sit down in five years' time and everything's gone to plan, where would we be, Rishi?

A Gosh, look, lots of people have lost their jobs the past year. That's the thing that is motivating me the most, is helping people get into work. So five years' time, I just want to get everyone into work, get everyone back into work, create as many jobs as possible, fix our borrowing and debt, which is obviously taking an absolute hammering and get that back under control. It's an important part of my job and one I take seriously. It's one of my responsibilities, you know, and lastly, it's that we emerged from this remaining one of the best places for people to grow their businesses, to create new products, to create new services. This remains the home of innovation in all its guises, and that all of that activity ultimately creates new things for people that makes our lives better and richer to lead, but in the process creates employment for people, creates jobs, creates wealth for our country, so that's just a fantastic place to be.

AI assessment note: “So five years' time, I just want to get everyone into work”

Q a lot of time on Twitter. I have a lot more free time than you do. Uh, but you suddenly see people go like, oh wow. And like, this is a real signal. And then you saw a lot more because you'd be like, oh wow, is it the next Miami? And are we seeing this like incredible, uh, Uh, rise again in London. Like, we have done a lot.

A Yeah, I, look, I, I think so. I think success breeds success. I think, as well, given the pace that the tech ecosystem works at, you know, government needs to be responsive to that pace and just constantly show that we're moving forward. And, you know, Andreessen Cumming is great. Lots of people are already here. And I think things are going really well already. But, If I think back, look, this is a country that was at the forefront of the Industrial Revolution. Think of all the things that were invented here in the UK, in steam engines, the forefront of electricity, how we mechanized textiles, you know, how we built modern roads, the process of making steel, the lawnmower saying there's another thing. I mean, you name it, it was invented here. I think we're at the cusp of another period like that, and there's no doubt in my mind that the UK can lead that again as we do in the past.

AI assessment note: “Yeah, I, look, I, I think so. I think success breeds success.”

Q And you need to meet up there. AI task force, hundred million fund. Can you talk to me about that initiative and also where the funding is actually going? Is it companies? Is it to actually kind of AI safety? How do we think about effective deployment?

A I think the first thing is this task force is a bit different. I think it's reflective of how I approach these things. Uh, and the task force is a model on the vaccine task force. It's a little bit arm's length from government. It will be empowered to move at pace, to do things differently. And I think that's important because as you know, probably better than most, right? We, we need to move at pace and someone, I want to find the right person to chair that task force, which we, we haven't announced yet because that process is still going. Who's empowered to do that? And they will make ultimately the decisions to be honest about what the best way to allocate the resources are. But a key part of it is going to be safety research. And, uh, you know, I think it's important that governments develop the capability to do research evaluations, safety evaluations, auditing of these large language models. That's something that the companies themselves are already doing, by the way, and I think they will welcome that. Um, and I want the, the UK not just to be the kind of intellectual home of AI regulation, but also the geographic home. And as I said, we're, we're going to take a lead in that part.

AI assessment note: “a key part of it is going to be safety research”