The Exchanges

Q And you mentioned there about doing it with your studies. What studies were these? Was it an MBA or, uh?

A Uh, yeah, so this was a master's of science, not, not an MBA, but, uh, you know, the typical kind of, uh, European masters. Um, I studied for my undergrad. I studied in Holland and Maastricht, um, did, um, what's called international business. So just a kind of normal business degree. And then because of my experience with, Startups. During that time, um, I decided I wanted to do something that's more technology focused as my master's degree. Um, and Lausanne had this program. So this is a joint program for EPFL and HSC in Lausanne. They had this program that was focusing on technology entrepreneurship and technology management. Um, and that seemed like a great idea. Uh, also Lausanne is a great place. Uh, I could learn a new language. I could go snowboarding and, um, so pick that, um, Uh, pick that degree, um, which was mostly about how the technology industry and, uh, management in the technology industry is very different from management in other areas. So, you know, the technological change, um, the whole disruption theory, uh, and, and, and practice, of course, um, makes for a very different beast of management studies. So, yeah, that's.

AI assessment note: “this was a master's of science, not, not an MBA”

Q And you mentioned there about doing it with your studies. What studies were these? Was it an MBA or, uh?

A Uh, yeah, so this was a master's of science, not, not an MBA, but, uh, you know, the typical kind of, uh, European masters. Um, I studied for my undergrad. I studied in Holland and Maastricht, um, did, um, what's called international business. So just a kind of normal business degree. And then because of my experience with, Startups. During that time, um, I decided I wanted to do something that's more technology focused as my master's degree. Um, and Lausanne had this program. So this is a joint program for EPFL and HSC in Lausanne. They had this program that was focusing on technology entrepreneurship and technology management. Um, and that seemed like a great idea. Uh, also Lausanne is a great place. Uh, I could learn a new language. I could go snowboarding and, um, so pick that, um, Uh, pick that degree, um, which was mostly about how the technology industry and, uh, management in the technology industry is very different from management in other areas. So, you know, the technological change, um, the whole disruption theory, uh, and, and, and practice, of course, um, makes for a very different beast of management studies. So, yeah, that's.

AI assessment note: “this was a master's of science, not, not an MBA”

Q Do you think that's because there's a glass ceiling? I've often heard this glass ceiling for young kind of career VCs who, who do go in at a very early age and don't have the founders operating.

A There certainly is a glass ceiling, but I think it's for a very good reason. Um, so the real thing about the VC industry that nobody really tells you is that things take a very, very, very long time. Um, so I've been in the industry for about eight years now, and right now I see founders who I first saw in 2007 and eight do their second business. Right now I see companies that we invested in 2007, eight, nine, 10, um, really hit their stride, go big, you raise huge rounds of funding, and of course also exit. Um, and this is, you know, this is me Starting eight years ago. If you want to be at a fund and really be successful, you need that time. Um, and if you're in your first job, you don't have that time. You don't stay in your first job for eight years. I mean, usually you don't. Um, and so, you know, the, the illusion that you're going to make investments and, and become rich by being a VC when you're young is, is a fallacy that, um, I think people need to understand. However, if you start in the VC industry, um, And, you know, as a, as an associate or something like that, then very often people go and join startups after that, um, which I think is a, is a great preparation for being a VC, uh, running your own startup, being part of a startup in, you know, in a, in a crucial role, uh, really shows you much more what building companies is about, what growing companies is about…

AI assessment note: “There certainly is a glass ceiling, but I think it's for a very good reason.”

Q And we've seen a lot of kind of large U S VCs entering the European tech market in the last few months with likes of lead edge ventures funding Katawiki, for example. So why do you think we're seeing this sudden influx of US capital into the European market?

A I wouldn't say that it's a, you know, a very recent phenomenon. This has been going on for, for years, and you've seen, uh, folks like Union Square funding, um, funding SoundCloud here in Berlin. You've seen, you've always seen the, especially the East Coast VCs doing deals in London. Um, but, um, I think it's just a testament to the fact that great companies are built everywhere, um, great founders are everywhere, and no one has really that, uh, monopoly of, of starting companies, uh, you know, and this is something everybody says, and this is something, obviously, that, um, in Europe, both founders, VCs, and, and pundits really talk about, and they say, Europe is building great companies, but it's just true. Um, these people have, um, Great, uh, you know, have great opportunities they see here, and, um, if they have money to invest, then, you know, it's possible, especially in later stages, um, also to invest in companies that are further away. I think in the seed stage, it's very difficult to do that, um, because in the seed stage, as I mentioned before, you probably want to be more involved with the company, um, you want to meet the founders, um, you know, maybe not every week, but certainly every month, uh, and therefore, in the seed stage, a lot, A lot fewer USBCs are investing.

AI assessment note: “I wouldn't say that it's a, you know, a very recent phenomenon.”

Q And you said about the model of, of investing at 500 there. What was it then? I mean, you know, you could have been a venture partner at numerous different VC firms, I'm sure. What was it about the 500 model and setup that really attracted you to them?

A First of all, I love the people. So Dave and Veggie, who I mostly, um, talked with and worked with at 500 are just really amazing people. I've known them for years now, and this is a great chance to work with them. Um, on the other hand, It's a really interesting model where I can invest in, you know, a style that wouldn't change how I think about companies. It wouldn't change my work with AngelList, and so it was just a very simple setup, um, for me to agree to, and, um, other people that I have talked in the past to, um, you know, weren't as open in being so flexible as 500 are, uh, which is really, again, born out of the way they run The 500 fund, and the way the 500 fund is, is positioned, and, ah, and the way they are investing.

AI assessment note: “weren't as open in being so flexible as 500 are”

Q And talking of the market, you're also a venture partner at one of our favorite funds, 500 startups. So how does your role with AngelList integrate with the role at 500?

A Yeah, so, um, the 500 role, a venture partner role, is, is really a, a thing I'm doing on the side, and, um, if, you know, if you look at classically how venture partner roles, um, were filled or were ran, it's usually someone who is in a full-time job and is doing some investing on the side. Um, and then they get a venture partner role to have a bit more firepower to do that. Um, and obviously this is for a fund to get access to deal flow in a location or in an area, um, of, of interest that they don't have as much coverage. So I'm going to do some investments with 500 startups that, you know, would look like angel investments. So I know an entrepreneur, I know some other, uh, investors they're doing around and I, Get the chance to, to join and, uh, invest in a great company, so that's really the idea there. Um, and then through AngelList, I will run a syndicate, so I will, uh, enable other people to co-invest with me, which is obviously something where the two things come together, um, and, and, and both parties are really happy that, that we can do some great deals.

AI assessment note: “through AngelList, I will run a syndicate, so I will enable other people”

Q And then moving now to your time with AngelList, and your work with AngelList, you run everything Europe for AngelList, I think your LinkedIn profile said. I think it was your LinkedIn profile. Yeah. Um, so how do you think then, obviously AngelList being a US company, how do you think the US investing scene differs from the European?

A I mean, very, very clearly the investment scene in Silicon Valley is where venture capital started, um, and therefore it's a, it's a, Much advanced in comparison to the European scene. Um, the European scene obviously is a lot more disjointed because companies come from more different places. There isn't as much of an epicenter like San Francisco or the Valley, um, within Europe. Uh, the venture scene over there is 60 years old. Here it's, you know, at best 20 or 30 years old. And if you, especially if you talk about any meaningful size or a number of investors in the market, um, So I think that's a huge difference. There's a lot more money going in in the U S and therefore a lot of other things develop that over time also come here. So, you know, it's often quite easy to, to look at what's going on trend wise in the U S and then see those same, same things, um, happen over here a bit later.

AI assessment note: “the venture scene over there is 60 years old. Here it's”

Q So do you think that will lead to a kind of sudden influx in capital into the European tech market?

A Uh, I don't think so. I mean, this is not, you know, the 400 obviously as, as a chunk is a huge amount of money. In the announcement already, Naval talked pretty clearly that, about how That's going to be spaced out over, you know, over the next five years, um, how we don't want to have an influx of capital into what, first of all, the platform that can distort the way the platform works and also into the market and, and that distorts the way the market would work. If you think about, you know, maybe twenty million in the first year, something like that being deployed, that's not really a huge amount of money if you look at the whole industry, and, and so I don't think this will be a, you know, sudden influx or You know, a distortion, um, for the market.

AI assessment note: “Uh, I don't think so. I mean, this is not, you know”

Q Do you think that's because there's a glass ceiling? I've often heard this glass ceiling for young kind of career VCs who, who do go in at a very early age and don't have the founders operating.

A There certainly is a glass ceiling, but I think it's for a very good reason. Um, so the real thing about the VC industry that nobody really tells you is that things take a very, very, very long time. Um, so I've been in the industry for about eight years now, and right now I see founders who I first saw in 2007 and eight do their second business. Right now I see companies that we invested in 2007, eight, nine, 10, um, really hit their stride, go big, you raise huge rounds of funding, and of course also exit. Um, and this is, you know, this is me Starting eight years ago. If you want to be at a fund and really be successful, you need that time. Um, and if you're in your first job, you don't have that time. You don't stay in your first job for eight years. I mean, usually you don't. Um, and so, you know, the, the illusion that you're going to make investments and, and become rich by being a VC when you're young is, is a fallacy that, um, I think people need to understand. However, if you start in the VC industry, um, And, you know, as a, as an associate or something like that, then very often people go and join startups after that, um, which I think is a, is a great preparation for being a VC, uh, running your own startup, being part of a startup in, you know, in a, in a crucial role, uh, really shows you much more what building companies is about, what growing companies is about…

AI assessment note: “There certainly is a glass ceiling, but I think it's for a very good reason.”

Q And we've seen a lot of kind of large U S VCs entering the European tech market in the last few months with likes of lead edge ventures funding Katawiki, for example. So why do you think we're seeing this sudden influx of US capital into the European market?

A I wouldn't say that it's a, you know, a very recent phenomenon. This has been going on for, for years, and you've seen, uh, folks like Union Square funding, um, funding SoundCloud here in Berlin. You've seen, you've always seen the, especially the East Coast VCs doing deals in London. Um, but, um, I think it's just a testament to the fact that great companies are built everywhere, um, great founders are everywhere, and no one has really that, uh, monopoly of, of starting companies, uh, you know, and this is something everybody says, and this is something, obviously, that, um, in Europe, both founders, VCs, and, and pundits really talk about, and they say, Europe is building great companies, but it's just true. Um, these people have, um, Great, uh, you know, have great opportunities they see here, and, um, if they have money to invest, then, you know, it's possible, especially in later stages, um, also to invest in companies that are further away. I think in the seed stage, it's very difficult to do that, um, because in the seed stage, as I mentioned before, you probably want to be more involved with the company, um, you want to meet the founders, um, you know, maybe not every week, but certainly every month, uh, and therefore, in the seed stage, a lot, A lot fewer USBCs are investing.

AI assessment note: “I think it's just a testament to the fact that great companies are built everywhere”

Q Certainly London. What, what makes you say that? Is that just the sheer size of VC fundings, or is it the companies? What makes you say London?

A Um, I think on all levels, London is just the number one ecosystem in Europe. Um, and that won't change for, you know, either for a long while or ever. Um, London is the, you know, one of the biggest metro areas, uh, in, in the, uh, in the Euro zone or in, in Europe in general. Um, there's the oldest technology industry. There's really the oldest VC industry. Um, there's a lot of money in London, uh, due to the The financial, um, the financial scene there. I think that's just really hard to copy for anyone else. You know, and besides all of that coming together, which is what you also have in Silicon Valley, which is tech companies, VCs, et cetera, there's this ecosystem of culture, politics, you know, all, all the other stuff that make up a great metro area or a great city, which makes it interesting for people to be there, start companies. Um, so I don't think that's going to go away. Um, I think the, It's also pretty clear that in terms of momentum, Berlin is probably, um, or is, in my eyes, the clear number two in Europe. And then there's other ecosystems like Stockholm that are very solid. Up in, in Finland, you have very solid gaming, uh, gaming ecosystem. Paris is obviously a great ecosystem, but that's a little bit more inward looking, or at least seems like a little bit more inward looking than other, other places. Um, and then you have the up and coming, uh, ecosystem…

AI assessment note: “I think on all levels, London is just the number one ecosystem in Europe.”

Q And talking of the market, you're also a venture partner at one of our favorite funds, 500 startups. So how does your role with AngelList integrate with the role at 500?

A Yeah, so, um, the 500 role, a venture partner role, is, is really a, a thing I'm doing on the side, and, um, if, you know, if you look at classically how venture partner roles, um, were filled or were ran, it's usually someone who is in a full-time job and is doing some investing on the side. Um, and then they get a venture partner role to have a bit more firepower to do that. Um, and obviously this is for a fund to get access to deal flow in a location or in an area, um, of, of interest that they don't have as much coverage. So I'm going to do some investments with 500 startups that, you know, would look like angel investments. So I know an entrepreneur, I know some other, uh, investors they're doing around and I, Get the chance to, to join and, uh, invest in a great company, so that's really the idea there. Um, and then through AngelList, I will run a syndicate, so I will, uh, enable other people to co-invest with me, which is obviously something where the two things come together, um, and, and, and both parties are really happy that, that we can do some great deals.

AI assessment note: “through AngelList, I will run a syndicate... where the two things come together”

Q And you said about the model of, of investing at 500 there. What was it then? I mean, you know, you could have been a venture partner at numerous different VC firms, I'm sure. What was it about the 500 model and setup that really attracted you to them?

A First of all, I love the people. So Dave and Veggie, who I mostly, um, talked with and worked with at 500 are just really amazing people. I've known them for years now, and this is a great chance to work with them. Um, on the other hand, It's a really interesting model where I can invest in, you know, a style that wouldn't change how I think about companies. It wouldn't change my work with AngelList, and so it was just a very simple setup, um, for me to agree to, and, um, other people that I have talked in the past to, um, you know, weren't as open in being so flexible as 500 are, uh, which is really, again, born out of the way they run The 500 fund, and the way the 500 fund is, is positioned, and, ah, and the way they are investing.

AI assessment note: “weren't as open in being so flexible as 500 are”

Q And then moving now to your time with AngelList, and your work with AngelList, you run everything Europe for AngelList, I think your LinkedIn profile said. I think it was your LinkedIn profile. Yeah. Um, so how do you think then, obviously AngelList being a US company, how do you think the US investing scene differs from the European?

A I mean, very, very clearly the investment scene in Silicon Valley is where venture capital started, um, and therefore it's a, it's a, Much advanced in comparison to the European scene. Um, the European scene obviously is a lot more disjointed because companies come from more different places. There isn't as much of an epicenter like San Francisco or the Valley, um, within Europe. Uh, the venture scene over there is 60 years old. Here it's, you know, at best 20 or 30 years old. And if you, especially if you talk about any meaningful size or a number of investors in the market, um, So I think that's a huge difference. There's a lot more money going in in the U S and therefore a lot of other things develop that over time also come here. So, you know, it's often quite easy to, to look at what's going on trend wise in the U S and then see those same, same things, um, happen over here a bit later.

AI assessment note: “the investment scene in Silicon Valley is... Much advanced in comparison to the European scene.”

Q So do you think that will lead to a kind of sudden influx in capital into the European tech market?

A Uh, I don't think so. I mean, this is not, you know, the 400 obviously as, as a chunk is a huge amount of money. In the announcement already, Naval talked pretty clearly that, about how That's going to be spaced out over, you know, over the next five years, um, how we don't want to have an influx of capital into what, first of all, the platform that can distort the way the platform works and also into the market and, and that distorts the way the market would work. If you think about, you know, maybe twenty million in the first year, something like that being deployed, that's not really a huge amount of money if you look at the whole industry, and, and so I don't think this will be a, you know, sudden influx or You know, a distortion, um, for the market.

AI assessment note: “I don't think so. I mean, this is not, you know, the 400”

Q And you mentioned there the kind of the expansion or the broadening of your offering that you want. What do you think is the biggest kind of challenge or hurdle then that AngelList will have to overcome to achieve that?

A Uh, I think we just need to be really good at, um, at the operational part. So, you know, the, the hard parts for every startup, um, in, in their journey are usually the parts that you don't see from the outside. So really just making sure investments run well, uh, making sure that, Everything, uh, is on, in, on solid footing from a tech perspective. Obviously get the right people to lead deals. Make sure that the incentives we set are the correct ones for deals to, you know, to run the right deals, um, and find the right investors. Um, so all of that stuff is really execution, and that's usually the hardest, um, in building a startup. And I think that's really the challenge for us. If we want to go for the next five, 10 years, um, or even next 1520 years, Then, then that's probably the biggest challenge for us.

AI assessment note: “I think we just need to be really good at, um, at the operational part.”

Q And you mentioned there the kind of the expansion or the broadening of your offering that you want. What do you think is the biggest kind of challenge or hurdle then that AngelList will have to overcome to achieve that?

A Uh, I think we just need to be really good at, um, at the operational part. So, you know, the, the hard parts for every startup, um, in, in their journey are usually the parts that you don't see from the outside. So really just making sure investments run well, uh, making sure that, Everything, uh, is on, in, on solid footing from a tech perspective. Obviously get the right people to lead deals. Make sure that the incentives we set are the correct ones for deals to, you know, to run the right deals, um, and find the right investors. Um, so all of that stuff is really execution, and that's usually the hardest, um, in building a startup. And I think that's really the challenge for us. If we want to go for the next five, 10 years, um, or even next 1520 years, Then, then that's probably the biggest challenge for us.

AI assessment note: “I think we just need to be really good at, um, at the operational part.”

Q Certainly London. What, what makes you say that? Is that just the sheer size of VC fundings, or is it the companies? What makes you say London?

A Um, I think on all levels, London is just the number one ecosystem in Europe. Um, and that won't change for, you know, either for a long while or ever. Um, London is the, you know, one of the biggest metro areas, uh, in, in the, uh, in the Euro zone or in, in Europe in general. Um, there's the oldest technology industry. There's really the oldest VC industry. Um, there's a lot of money in London, uh, due to the The financial, um, the financial scene there. I think that's just really hard to copy for anyone else. You know, and besides all of that coming together, which is what you also have in Silicon Valley, which is tech companies, VCs, et cetera, there's this ecosystem of culture, politics, you know, all, all the other stuff that make up a great metro area or a great city, which makes it interesting for people to be there, start companies. Um, so I don't think that's going to go away. Um, I think the, It's also pretty clear that in terms of momentum, Berlin is probably, um, or is, in my eyes, the clear number two in Europe. And then there's other ecosystems like Stockholm that are very solid. Up in, in Finland, you have very solid gaming, uh, gaming ecosystem. Paris is obviously a great ecosystem, but that's a little bit more inward looking, or at least seems like a little bit more inward looking than other, other places. Um, and then you have the up and coming, uh, ecosystem…

AI assessment note: “oldest technology industry. There's really the oldest VC industry. Um, there's a lot of money”