The Exchanges

Q Can I ask you, you said about the ratio on product teams changing. What do you think it's changing from and to, and how would you discuss that?

A So, I mean, I think that, you know, up until like a couple of years ago, you'd probably like, what is a, what is a kind of a decent product team look like if you were starting like a zero to one team, you know, maybe you say it's like, you know, depending on, on the problem, you know, five, 10 engineers at the limit, you know, it's kind of like one PM, one designer, right? I think now you're, you're much more looking at, you know, it's like maybe one PM, one designer, two engineers is kind of like, you know, what, what you need. And then also Who is doing what is, is also very, very different, right? Like everyone is in the code. Everyone is building the thing. And you just have a smaller number of people that have their hands on a much wider part of the product pipeline. And I think that leads to, to better products.

AI assessment note: “five, 10 engineers at the limit... now... one PM, one designer, two engineers”

Q he said you came into Redfin when they'd had a couple of different product leaders, and you answered a question that he always remembers. The question that you answered is, what is a product leader? And he said the description that you gave was very simple, but it was phenomenal. And so when I ask you, what is a product leader and a great product leader, what is that description?

A I mean, I think fundamentally a great product leader is a great Storyteller. Someone that is able to understand what the customers actually need, what problem that actually needs to be solved and can form that into a story that is just well understood and well aligned, not only with the market and the customer, but that gets everyone internally to row in the same direction. There's all these interesting debates right now about like, Roles collapsing and product and marketing and so on. And I just really don't see these things as separate. I see product and marketing and, you know, it's the same thing. And so maybe that's where, where this comes from. I think that fundamentally a good product leader is just an excellent storyteller and the best companies and the best brands are excellent storytellers.

AI assessment note: “fundamentally a great product leader is a great Storyteller.”

Q And they said about actually chess and the integration or introduction of that from two designers, and they vibe coded it in a couple of days and then brought to life a working kind of prototype that everyone could play with. Is there any excuse for a designer to bring a design anymore when you could vibe code your idea into reality? As efficiently in the same amount of time.

A So it, I mean, that's, that's interesting as efficiently in the same amount of time. I don't know that where you are in kind of the design thinking stage necessarily leads to building a prototype is as efficient. I think if what you're asking is if you want people to empathize and understand your idea and feel your idea in the, in the highest signal way, should you give them the Highest fidelity approximation of that idea that you can as quickly as possible that I would say, yes, that is necessary as, as a designer, you know, you should be able to produce that prototype, produce that working product. If you have the, the time and the means when you're trying to get other people to empathize with your idea, but that doesn't mean that when you're starting your thinking process, that maybe a whiteboard is actually like the best place to start or a blank sheet of paper or a Figma. Canvas that works in the dumb old way that they used to work. I just, I just think that the design thinking can still benefit from those different mediums, those different ways of doing the thinking because of the constraints that they apply because of the space that they create. I think that's different than saying, Hey, if you're at the point where you want to like share your idea and get people to empathize with your idea as deeply as they possibly can, what's the best way to do it? Yeah, like have the…

AI assessment note: “I don't think that means that all design thinking should start in a vide coding platform.”

Q human is that human brings in the experience they had from growing up in a kibbutz in Israel, where they think about whatever in a really different and cool way that influences how they think about collaboration features, and they bring that really cool anomalous experience to the product process. And you lose that hallucinatory element When writing a spec for an agent that executes it. Do we see that?

A I would say we will see a little bit of both. I actually think that this will lead to creativity and certainly like taste standing out more than ever, because I think you're going to have this like flattening where you are going to have a lot of things that just like, oh, you know, here we go. It's this, it's the same dialogue. It's the same flow like this. This is what works. These things have learned that this is what works and this, this is what they're putting out. But that actually, I think gives more room for the standouts to shine for the things that kind of have that taste and creativity to shine. And, and fundamentally that's still like the human, the human job is to figure that out. So I get the, the, maybe the analogy that to the, describe that flattening, just to go back to Instagram and sort of like what Instagram did to, did to photos, right? We went through this period of like, Every photo looks amazing. It's filtered. It's, it's touched up. Like, look at my amazing, shiny life. Like it was sort of like this creative flattening of what like makes a good photo. And then, you know, slowly, organically over time, what emerged is that the things that, that people, you know, thought were more interesting or, or more compelling was the things that like looked a little bit messy or like a little bit or organic, or you kind of like, The trend of what was like in fashion …

AI assessment note: “I would say we will see a little bit of both.”

Q Why, why, why would you, I'm so loved to be proved wrong, and I'm wrong most of the time as a venture ambassador. Why would you disagree on timing?

A Because I think we're still at the stage where, uh, fundamentally, like, we don't have the right UX. We, many people are still at the stage of, I'm not sure what to do with this thing, other than, like, kind of search and chat. I still think that a lot of how people use these things, It doesn't feel like they actually make them better or that the output is better than kind of what they've done on their own. I think in, in most cases, that's not actually a problem with the model or a problem with the technology. I think it's, it's often a problem with the user experience. And what I mean by that is how do you add this efficient context? How do you, you know, kind of prompt this thing correctly? Like, what should you use it for? How should you change your workflow to adapt to it? I think we're, we're still at that stage for, you know, a lot of the work that we do.

AI assessment note: “we're still at the stage where, uh, fundamentally, like, we don't have the right UX.”

Q A lot of people suggest that we're going to lose the design phase in a world where vibe coding and prototyping is so much quicker and real. Do you agree with that?

A No. You know, it's interesting. So many of these things that we're, like, talking about as if they're new things, I, I don't, I don't think they're very new. I, I think what's changing is that the tool set is accelerating, you know, things that have been happening for a long while. Like, I'm sure in, in all of your investments, like the best teams are one where like talent is collapsed in a smaller number of people. People wear, many different hats. The idea that like you are a designer and therefore you stay in these lanes and you do these tasks and you don't do engineering work or you don't do product work just like doesn't make sense. Like it doesn't work that way. And I get that as we scale, there's the idea that like everyone needs to specialize and kind of get deeper in their lane. I just, I just don't think That that's ever been true. And now the tools are making it even less true because to specialize and, and do well in these, in these areas to, to be a unicorn that can do many things, you're not required to learn the syntax or the tooling or the tactics of doing any one of those jobs in the way that you have before. So is the design phase going away? No, like you still have to do that sort of thinking. And there are many Different tools for doing that sort of thinking. And sometimes.

AI assessment note: “So is the design phase going away? No, like you still have to do”

Q What tools do you see used most often within the product teams today? Is it Cursor? Is it Claw Code? Is it Cognition? What are you seeing internally that's interesting or surprising?

A In terms of, like, the AI coding, I mean, definitely cloud code is, like, the far and away, and, and I think, like, just a lot of people make the transition from, I want to start with something that is more, has more familiar UX, like cursor, and then move to the, the terminal, and there's, there's a lot of freedom in moving to the terminal, and almost, like, you know, having layers of the abstraction even less visible, not worrying about what files it's Creating, not worrying about inspecting the files, like kind of gaining that confidence. I think that's, that's what I'm seeing most. And then, you know, the, the, I'd say the, the next is starting with the kind of the more familiar applications for prototyping, like lovable or, or Figma make, but the transition that I typically see is like, you start with kind of like that lovable it's, it's more familiar. It's feels less scary. You know, it's like, it doesn't feel as much like coding. And you move to something like, like a cursor and eventually in the terminal.

AI assessment note: “definitely cloud code is, like, the far and away”

Q human is that human brings in the experience they had from growing up in a kibbutz in Israel, where they think about whatever in a really different and cool way that influences how they think about collaboration features, and they bring that really cool anomalous experience to the product process. And you lose that hallucinatory element When writing a spec for an agent that executes it. Do we see that?

A I would say we will see a little bit of both. I actually think that this will lead to creativity and certainly like taste standing out more than ever, because I think you're going to have this like flattening where you are going to have a lot of things that just like, oh, you know, here we go. It's this, it's the same dialogue. It's the same flow like this. This is what works. These things have learned that this is what works and this, this is what they're putting out. But that actually, I think gives more room for the standouts to shine for the things that kind of have that taste and creativity to shine. And, and fundamentally that's still like the human, the human job is to figure that out. So I get the, the, maybe the analogy that to the, describe that flattening, just to go back to Instagram and sort of like what Instagram did to, did to photos, right? We went through this period of like, Every photo looks amazing. It's filtered. It's, it's touched up. Like, look at my amazing, shiny life. Like it was sort of like this creative flattening of what like makes a good photo. And then, you know, slowly, organically over time, what emerged is that the things that, that people, you know, thought were more interesting or, or more compelling was the things that like looked a little bit messy or like a little bit or organic, or you kind of like, The trend of what was like in fashion …

AI assessment note: “I would say we will see a little bit of both.”

Q Can I ask you, you said about the ratio on product teams changing. What do you think it's changing from and to, and how would you discuss that?

A So, I mean, I think that, you know, up until like a couple of years ago, you'd probably like, what is a, what is a kind of a decent product team look like if you were starting like a zero to one team, you know, maybe you say it's like, you know, depending on, on the problem, you know, five, 10 engineers at the limit, you know, it's kind of like one PM, one designer, right? I think now you're, you're much more looking at, you know, it's like maybe one PM, one designer, two engineers is kind of like, you know, what, what you need. And then also Who is doing what is, is also very, very different, right? Like everyone is in the code. Everyone is building the thing. And you just have a smaller number of people that have their hands on a much wider part of the product pipeline. And I think that leads to, to better products.

AI assessment note: “maybe one PM, one designer, two engineers is kind of like what you need”

Q Can I ask you a bit of a weird one, but everyone is so excited, high on their own supply, about how we're able to build more faster. Is there anything that you are nervous or worried about in the way that AI is changing how we build product?

A Maybe, maybe I'm just giving us too much credit. I w I would like to think that in areas of like, you know, security sensitive data that we're all still adding the observability and the controls such that there is kind of like the right human in the loop for those sorts of decisions. I suppose that we'll go through like kind of some bad phases where people are using these things irresponsibly. And, you know, we have data leakage, we have, you know, Prompt injection shortage sort of hacking and, uh, and so on. But I think that's just like a part of the learning curve that we're going to go through. I don't think that's like something fundamental that's going to make software worse in the, in the limit. Code quality is also not one that I think I worry about too much in the limit. I'm more worry about whether we actually use these tools to make our lives and our, our work lives Actually easier and better, or whether we're on a trajectory that I feel like we've been on, which is, I'm not sure that a lot of the, you know, tools that we use for work and a lot of the ways that, that we work have actually made us better. We certainly can, uh, work a lot more and, and, and all the time, which is, you know, I think has benefits and, and, and also to, for some folks, some, some downsides, but like, um, as an example, like I used to really love, uh, slack when I was in my, uh, you know, s…

AI assessment note: “I'm more worry about whether we actually use these tools to make our lives”

Q Why, why, why would you, I'm so loved to be proved wrong, and I'm wrong most of the time as a venture ambassador. Why would you disagree on timing?

A Because I think we're still at the stage where, uh, fundamentally, like, we don't have the right UX. We, many people are still at the stage of, I'm not sure what to do with this thing, other than, like, kind of search and chat. I still think that a lot of how people use these things, It doesn't feel like they actually make them better or that the output is better than kind of what they've done on their own. I think in, in most cases, that's not actually a problem with the model or a problem with the technology. I think it's, it's often a problem with the user experience. And what I mean by that is how do you add this efficient context? How do you, you know, kind of prompt this thing correctly? Like, what should you use it for? How should you change your workflow to adapt to it? I think we're, we're still at that stage for, you know, a lot of the work that we do.

AI assessment note: “Because I think we're still at the stage where, uh, fundamentally, like, we don't have the right UX.”

Q What was your biggest takeaway from Meta? We haven't discussed it, but Meta is an amazing place. What was your biggest takeaway?

A I think, I think this is like specific to like the part of Meta that I was in. And, and, uh, to be fair, I didn't get to experience kind of like mainline Meta. I was in an incubator team that was explicitly, you know, shielded from the rest of the organization for, for good reason. And that's, that's because I think doing zero to one product development, I don't think this is a, an uncommon learning, but just seeing it so viscerally and understanding all the reasons as to why it is, I think doing zero to one product development at scale is just really, really hard. And I, I think that that place has many, many strengths, but like lots of companies at that scale, that's just a fundamentally hard thing to do.

AI assessment note: “doing zero to one product development at scale is just really, really hard.”

Q he said you came into Redfin when they'd had a couple of different product leaders, and you answered a question that he always remembers. The question that you answered is, what is a product leader? And he said the description that you gave was very simple, but it was phenomenal. And so when I ask you, what is a product leader and a great product leader, what is that description?

A I mean, I think fundamentally a great product leader is a great Storyteller. Someone that is able to understand what the customers actually need, what problem that actually needs to be solved and can form that into a story that is just well understood and well aligned, not only with the market and the customer, but that gets everyone internally to row in the same direction. There's all these interesting debates right now about like, Roles collapsing and product and marketing and so on. And I just really don't see these things as separate. I see product and marketing and, you know, it's the same thing. And so maybe that's where, where this comes from. I think that fundamentally a good product leader is just an excellent storyteller and the best companies and the best brands are excellent storytellers.

AI assessment note: “fundamentally a great product leader is a great Storyteller.”

Q And they said about actually chess and the integration or introduction of that from two designers, and they vibe coded it in a couple of days and then brought to life a working kind of prototype that everyone could play with. Is there any excuse for a designer to bring a design anymore when you could vibe code your idea into reality? As efficiently in the same amount of time.

A So it, I mean, that's, that's interesting as efficiently in the same amount of time. I don't know that where you are in kind of the design thinking stage necessarily leads to building a prototype is as efficient. I think if what you're asking is if you want people to empathize and understand your idea and feel your idea in the, in the highest signal way, should you give them the Highest fidelity approximation of that idea that you can as quickly as possible that I would say, yes, that is necessary as, as a designer, you know, you should be able to produce that prototype, produce that working product. If you have the, the time and the means when you're trying to get other people to empathize with your idea, but that doesn't mean that when you're starting your thinking process, that maybe a whiteboard is actually like the best place to start or a blank sheet of paper or a Figma. Canvas that works in the dumb old way that they used to work. I just, I just think that the design thinking can still benefit from those different mediums, those different ways of doing the thinking because of the constraints that they apply because of the space that they create. I think that's different than saying, Hey, if you're at the point where you want to like share your idea and get people to empathize with your idea as deeply as they possibly can, what's the best way to do it? Yeah, like have the…

AI assessment note: “I don't think that means that all design thinking should start in a vide coding platform.”

Q money. You see, there's this brilliant wisdom that we give on this show. Vibe coding. I'm just stuck with it as a market. Do you think it will be an enduring market to offer non-technical functions, the ability to spin up development sites, you name it, faster? Will your lovables, rat blitz, base 44 be in every sales and marketing team, or is it a moment in time hype cycle?

A I think the idea that everyone can build is not a moment in time hype cycle. Like, we've, we've seen it Time and time again, like you can democratize, you know, the act of creation, many more people want and can create than we believe, or than we currently observe. And then that kind of expands. So I don't think that that is going anywhere where the like value capture will be in, in that stack, I think is a different question. You know, is it in the kind of the Employment, hosting, and distribution of the thing. Is it in, and will you be paying for the tool? I think that that is, uh, a different question, but I, I think fundamentally will happen is that these vibe coding tools will like continue to march up the stack and they're not building an ID. They're building, uh, a service, uh, uh, a thinking service that does things for you.

AI assessment note: “I think the idea that everyone can build is not a moment in time hype cycle.”

Q What was your biggest takeaway from Meta? We haven't discussed it, but Meta is an amazing place. What was your biggest takeaway?

A I think, I think this is like specific to like the part of Meta that I was in. And, and, uh, to be fair, I didn't get to experience kind of like mainline Meta. I was in an incubator team that was explicitly, you know, shielded from the rest of the organization for, for good reason. And that's, that's because I think doing zero to one product development, I don't think this is a, an uncommon learning, but just seeing it so viscerally and understanding all the reasons as to why it is, I think doing zero to one product development at scale is just really, really hard. And I, I think that that place has many, many strengths, but like lots of companies at that scale, that's just a fundamentally hard thing to do.

AI assessment note: “doing zero to one product development at scale is just really, really hard.”

Q A lot of people suggest that we're going to lose the design phase in a world where vibe coding and prototyping is so much quicker and real. Do you agree with that?

A No. You know, it's interesting. So many of these things that we're, like, talking about as if they're new things, I, I don't, I don't think they're very new. I, I think what's changing is that the tool set is accelerating, you know, things that have been happening for a long while. Like, I'm sure in, in all of your investments, like the best teams are one where like talent is collapsed in a smaller number of people. People wear, many different hats. The idea that like you are a designer and therefore you stay in these lanes and you do these tasks and you don't do engineering work or you don't do product work just like doesn't make sense. Like it doesn't work that way. And I get that as we scale, there's the idea that like everyone needs to specialize and kind of get deeper in their lane. I just, I just don't think That that's ever been true. And now the tools are making it even less true because to specialize and, and do well in these, in these areas to, to be a unicorn that can do many things, you're not required to learn the syntax or the tooling or the tactics of doing any one of those jobs in the way that you have before. So is the design phase going away? No, like you still have to do that sort of thinking. And there are many Different tools for doing that sort of thinking. And sometimes.

AI assessment note: “So is the design phase going away? No, like you still have to do that”

Q Can I ask you a bit of a weird one, but everyone is so excited, high on their own supply, about how we're able to build more faster. Is there anything that you are nervous or worried about in the way that AI is changing how we build product?

A Maybe, maybe I'm just giving us too much credit. I w I would like to think that in areas of like, you know, security sensitive data that we're all still adding the observability and the controls such that there is kind of like the right human in the loop for those sorts of decisions. I suppose that we'll go through like kind of some bad phases where people are using these things irresponsibly. And, you know, we have data leakage, we have, you know, Prompt injection shortage sort of hacking and, uh, and so on. But I think that's just like a part of the learning curve that we're going to go through. I don't think that's like something fundamental that's going to make software worse in the, in the limit. Code quality is also not one that I think I worry about too much in the limit. I'm more worry about whether we actually use these tools to make our lives and our, our work lives Actually easier and better, or whether we're on a trajectory that I feel like we've been on, which is, I'm not sure that a lot of the, you know, tools that we use for work and a lot of the ways that, that we work have actually made us better. We certainly can, uh, work a lot more and, and, and all the time, which is, you know, I think has benefits and, and, and also to, for some folks, some, some downsides, but like, um, as an example, like I used to really love, uh, slack when I was in my, uh, you know, s…

AI assessment note: “I'm more worry about whether we actually use these tools to make our lives”

Q Totally get you. And so we have smaller teams, everyone still being in the code. When we get a little bit further along, how has testing and deployment changed in the world of AI? Or has this fundamentally remained the same?

A Well, I mean, I think that, I think that for one, like, uh, the, the AI can, can do a lot of the, the testing, certainly the, you know, the first run catching all the, the, the obvious things. I mean, even for on-call like incidents, like when the kind of bad things happen, I think that AI can do a lot of the triage, a lot of the, the first run investigations so that by the time it gets to an on-call engineer, it's like, here's what I think is going on. And here's, I think that the three options are to try to fix this, like which one of these paths do want me to take go. I think over time, as you build up that, that context and that, and that memory, then, you know, it's going to ask you, like, less and less. So I think the whole stack is, is, uh, is going to be, uh, automated in the same way.

AI assessment note: “the AI can, can do a lot of the, the testing”

Q I think one thing that we're going to see in 2026 that no one's talking about is 24 seven inference that everyone is going to have inference running all the time, not just on input into chat GPT, but consistently for the majority of people, especially in knowledge worker jobs, you will have that. Do you agree with that? And does that factor in how you think about building product?

A I think that's a, that's a very good observation and whether it happens widely in knowledge work, By 20, 26, I think is, you know, I'll take a bet with you on that. Certainly for, uh, uh, coding. I, I think in a lot of places we're already there, right? I mean, you have like the, the Ralph Wiggum stuff that, that popped up over, over the holiday and now people are running in friends, 24, seven for their, for their, uh, coding tasks for the sort of knowledge work that the majority of us do on, on a day to day, will we be there by the end of 20, 26? I might disagree with you on timing, but I think that the, the insight is correct.

AI assessment note: “I might disagree with you on timing, but I think that the, the insight is correct.”

Q How will it most significantly change your job? Most significantly?

A I think that the people in, I think, my roles typically have a hard time finding time to build, to make, and that's, like, fundamentally why I got into this. Career in general is I like to make things. And, you know, as you progress, you just, you do that less and less, which I think is a real shame. And I think that it's going to give me the opportunity because of the amount of time and energy it takes now, the amount of space I can, I need to carve out in my day, in my, in my weekend, et cetera. I think I'm going to get to build a lot more than I have in a long time where before it would have been like, Well, I got that week, a quarter where we ran that sprint and I got to, you know, actually be a designer again or be a PM PM again. I'm very hopeful. Maybe, maybe I'm projecting. I really want more of that time in my week to week. And then I hope through that to also help change how our teams work and kind of like our, our rhythms and our, our expected, like, you know, roles and accountability rhythms. Such that more of our PMs and more of our designers and teams can, can work that way. Because I don't think the, the biggest thing that's in their way now is, is the tooling or the desire or the knowledge. I think it's actually more the change management around just how we work and like, what should the week look like? And you know, who's responsible for what? And you know, what…

AI assessment note: “I think I'm going to get to build a lot more than I have”

Q What tools do you see used most often within the product teams today? Is it Cursor? Is it Claw Code? Is it Cognition? What are you seeing internally that's interesting or surprising?

A In terms of, like, the AI coding, I mean, definitely cloud code is, like, the far and away, and, and I think, like, just a lot of people make the transition from, I want to start with something that is more, has more familiar UX, like cursor, and then move to the, the terminal, and there's, there's a lot of freedom in moving to the terminal, and almost, like, you know, having layers of the abstraction even less visible, not worrying about what files it's Creating, not worrying about inspecting the files, like kind of gaining that confidence. I think that's, that's what I'm seeing most. And then, you know, the, the, I'd say the, the next is starting with the kind of the more familiar applications for prototyping, like lovable or, or Figma make, but the transition that I typically see is like, you start with kind of like that lovable it's, it's more familiar. It's feels less scary. You know, it's like, it doesn't feel as much like coding. And you move to something like, like a cursor and eventually in the terminal.

AI assessment note: “definitely cloud code is, like, the far and away”

Q money. You see, there's this brilliant wisdom that we give on this show. Vibe coding. I'm just stuck with it as a market. Do you think it will be an enduring market to offer non-technical functions, the ability to spin up development sites, you name it, faster? Will your lovables, rat blitz, base 44 be in every sales and marketing team, or is it a moment in time hype cycle?

A I think the idea that everyone can build is not a moment in time hype cycle. Like, we've, we've seen it Time and time again, like you can democratize, you know, the act of creation, many more people want and can create than we believe, or than we currently observe. And then that kind of expands. So I don't think that that is going anywhere where the like value capture will be in, in that stack, I think is a different question. You know, is it in the kind of the Employment, hosting, and distribution of the thing. Is it in, and will you be paying for the tool? I think that that is, uh, a different question, but I, I think fundamentally will happen is that these vibe coding tools will like continue to march up the stack and they're not building an ID. They're building, uh, a service, uh, uh, a thinking service that does things for you.

AI assessment note: “I think the idea that everyone can build is not a moment in time hype cycle.”

Q Totally get you. And so we have smaller teams, everyone still being in the code. When we get a little bit further along, how has testing and deployment changed in the world of AI? Or has this fundamentally remained the same?

A Well, I mean, I think that, I think that for one, like, uh, the, the AI can, can do a lot of the, the testing, certainly the, you know, the first run catching all the, the, the obvious things. I mean, even for on-call like incidents, like when the kind of bad things happen, I think that AI can do a lot of the triage, a lot of the, the first run investigations so that by the time it gets to an on-call engineer, it's like, here's what I think is going on. And here's, I think that the three options are to try to fix this, like which one of these paths do want me to take go. I think over time, as you build up that, that context and that, and that memory, then, you know, it's going to ask you, like, less and less. So I think the whole stack is, is, uh, is going to be, uh, automated in the same way.

AI assessment note: “the AI can do a lot of the testing”

Q lose interest in them the minute you say anything. Like our teams are like, we spend hours doing this research, Harry, and then you just go rogue. But you said storyteller. I get that. But the challenge when you're a horizontal product is different customers resonate with different stories. How do you think about being a great storyteller when you have such a broad customer base with a horizontal product?

A That's an excellent question. Not to like return some of the flattery to you really shows like kind of a depth of understanding that you have that I don't think is always common amongst this crowd. So I appreciate that. I think that you, you go to different things, right? You go to what is the feeling that you're trying to create? What is the, you know, after your, your features are delivered after you solve the kind of the, each of the micro problems, what is the overall Feeling that you're leaving the customer with, how do they feel supported? How do they feel kind of more in the flow? Whatever you're going, whatever you're going after. I think, uh, a good, a good example of that is like Instagram, like was Instagram about like the features of the specific problems, or was it more about catering to the feeling of the need for vanity? And that's essentially was the kind of the, I think the product insight is that, you know, vanity is Much bigger market than, than we realized it was as a, you know, latent demand that kind of tapped into. That's the feeling that you're, that you're trying to address.

AI assessment note: “You go to what is the feeling that you're trying to create?”

Q How will it most significantly change your job? Most significantly?

A I think that the people in, I think, my roles typically have a hard time finding time to build, to make, and that's, like, fundamentally why I got into this. Career in general is I like to make things. And, you know, as you progress, you just, you do that less and less, which I think is a real shame. And I think that it's going to give me the opportunity because of the amount of time and energy it takes now, the amount of space I can, I need to carve out in my day, in my, in my weekend, et cetera. I think I'm going to get to build a lot more than I have in a long time where before it would have been like, Well, I got that week, a quarter where we ran that sprint and I got to, you know, actually be a designer again or be a PM PM again. I'm very hopeful. Maybe, maybe I'm projecting. I really want more of that time in my week to week. And then I hope through that to also help change how our teams work and kind of like our, our rhythms and our, our expected, like, you know, roles and accountability rhythms. Such that more of our PMs and more of our designers and teams can, can work that way. Because I don't think the, the biggest thing that's in their way now is, is the tooling or the desire or the knowledge. I think it's actually more the change management around just how we work and like, what should the week look like? And you know, who's responsible for what? And you know, what…

AI assessment note: “I think I'm going to get to build a lot more than I have”

Q My friend, which one's easier to do? Is it easier for claw code and cursor to go down the stack and eat the consumer end? Or is it easier for the consumer end, Lovables, base, what he falls, replets to go up the intellectual stack and eat the developer end?

A I think that the hardest thing right now is figuring out the user experience that is going to scale to the largest number and average, average users. I think that we're already very much at the point where We have this kind of capability overhang that people talk about, right? Where like what these models can do and what people actually can do, do with them. There's, there's a big gap there. So I think that, that the question of, is it easier for Claude code to figure out the, the right user experience, or is it easier for someone that is working more actively in the kind of that UX application layer, like a, like a, like a Manus or, or, or like a, like a lovable to figure out The user experience unlock. I guess I would, I would probably bet on people working at that UX application layer already. But I think that the, the, the foundational labs are doing that as well and are trying to learn at that, at that level as well.

AI assessment note: “I guess I would, I would probably bet on people working at that UX application layer”

Q My friend, which one's easier to do? Is it easier for claw code and cursor to go down the stack and eat the consumer end? Or is it easier for the consumer end, Lovables, base, what he falls, replets to go up the intellectual stack and eat the developer end?

A I think that the hardest thing right now is figuring out the user experience that is going to scale to the largest number and average, average users. I think that we're already very much at the point where We have this kind of capability overhang that people talk about, right? Where like what these models can do and what people actually can do, do with them. There's, there's a big gap there. So I think that, that the question of, is it easier for Claude code to figure out the, the right user experience, or is it easier for someone that is working more actively in the kind of that UX application layer, like a, like a, like a Manus or, or, or like a, like a lovable to figure out The user experience unlock. I guess I would, I would probably bet on people working at that UX application layer already. But I think that the, the, the foundational labs are doing that as well and are trying to learn at that, at that level as well.

AI assessment note: “I would probably bet on people working at that UX application layer already”

Q I think one thing that we're going to see in 2026 that no one's talking about is 24 seven inference that everyone is going to have inference running all the time, not just on input into chat GPT, but consistently for the majority of people, especially in knowledge worker jobs, you will have that. Do you agree with that? And does that factor in how you think about building product?

A I think that's a, that's a very good observation and whether it happens widely in knowledge work, By 20, 26, I think is, you know, I'll take a bet with you on that. Certainly for, uh, uh, coding. I, I think in a lot of places we're already there, right? I mean, you have like the, the Ralph Wiggum stuff that, that popped up over, over the holiday and now people are running in friends, 24, seven for their, for their, uh, coding tasks for the sort of knowledge work that the majority of us do on, on a day to day, will we be there by the end of 20, 26? I might disagree with you on timing, but I think that the, the insight is correct.

AI assessment note: “I might disagree with you on timing, but I think that the insight is correct.”

Q lose interest in them the minute you say anything. Like our teams are like, we spend hours doing this research, Harry, and then you just go rogue. But you said storyteller. I get that. But the challenge when you're a horizontal product is different customers resonate with different stories. How do you think about being a great storyteller when you have such a broad customer base with a horizontal product?

A That's an excellent question. Not to like return some of the flattery to you really shows like kind of a depth of understanding that you have that I don't think is always common amongst this crowd. So I appreciate that. I think that you, you go to different things, right? You go to what is the feeling that you're trying to create? What is the, you know, after your, your features are delivered after you solve the kind of the, each of the micro problems, what is the overall Feeling that you're leaving the customer with, how do they feel supported? How do they feel kind of more in the flow? Whatever you're going, whatever you're going after. I think, uh, a good, a good example of that is like Instagram, like was Instagram about like the features of the specific problems, or was it more about catering to the feeling of the need for vanity? And that's essentially was the kind of the, I think the product insight is that, you know, vanity is Much bigger market than, than we realized it was as a, you know, latent demand that kind of tapped into. That's the feeling that you're, that you're trying to address.

AI assessment note: “you go to what is the feeling that you're trying to create”