The Exchanges

Q And what was the aha moment for you then in terms of idea generation for Workable? Did it seem like a, a massive problem at the time for you that needed to be addressed?

A To be honest with you, there wasn't an aha moment or a big burning problem we, we wanted to solve. In our case, it worked a little bit the other way around. We wanted to start a company. We had a fairly clear idea of the, the type of company we wanted. We wanted a, a software company with an engineering culture centered around the product. Um, also we were starting in Greece, so, you know, this is not the place to start the new consumer big hit that is going to become fashionable in San Francisco. Uh, but we understood enterprise needs and enterprise tech. Um, we didn't want a company that is going to sell to the fortune 500 companies because these companies tend to be sales organizations in the end. We wanted a company with a strong engineering culture where The product is first and, uh, and dominates the business model. Um, so we picked the SMB space, um, for our B to B software. Um, and then of all the, the things that we ourselves have used, because, you know, we have been doing, um, growing a company from 10 to 200 people as executives. We have been doing a lot of hiring. Um, recruiting seemed to be like, uh, You know, the, the stepchild that was left behind from the, uh, the revolution in enterprise software, uh, it still had very clunky, old, uh, um, archaic software, uh, made for big companies, 20 years ago. Um, and, you know, it, it hadn't been affected yet by this ren…

AI assessment note: “there wasn't an aha moment or a big burning problem we, we wanted to solve.”

Q Um, but like, you know, the, uh, accessibility to funding, uh, availability of talented developers, was that around in, in Greece at the time?

A Actually it is. Actually it is. I mean, 10 years ago when you would need five or ten million just to get started, uh, you know, you wouldn't be able to find that kind of money if you weren't in one of the big technology hubs of the world with lots of VCs. But right now you can get started with 50 or a hundred K, or with 200 K. Ah, and right now to find your first half a million in Greece, there are funds that do it. Open Fund, ah, is one of them, and the better known one that gave us the first money. And, um, and you can definitely, um, get started and, you know, move the company to the stage where it can attract the interest of major VCs, ah, ah, in Europe or the States. So, that's a solved problem. And, And the huge advantage when you are in a peripheral market like, uh, uh, like Greece is that if you have a network there and some reputation, uh, you probably have a huge advantage in, uh, in hiring. You know, hiring engineers, uh, in Greece, there's plenty of them. They're really good. Uh, they, you know, um, uh, they're equally good to the kind of engineers that you would find anywhere else in the world. It's also, it also comes with a, You know, with the, with the territory and the, um, engineers in general are, Uh, have access to similar information and training wherever they are in the world. And, um, and, and they're plentiful, and, um, you probably have a lot less compe…

AI assessment note: “there are funds that do it. Open Fund, ah, is one of them”

Q And what was the aha moment for you then in terms of idea generation for Workable? Did it seem like a, a massive problem at the time for you that needed to be addressed?

A To be honest with you, there wasn't an aha moment or a big burning problem we, we wanted to solve. In our case, it worked a little bit the other way around. We wanted to start a company. We had a fairly clear idea of the, the type of company we wanted. We wanted a, a software company with an engineering culture centered around the product. Um, also we were starting in Greece, so, you know, this is not the place to start the new consumer big hit that is going to become fashionable in San Francisco. Uh, but we understood enterprise needs and enterprise tech. Um, we didn't want a company that is going to sell to the fortune 500 companies because these companies tend to be sales organizations in the end. We wanted a company with a strong engineering culture where The product is first and, uh, and dominates the business model. Um, so we picked the SMB space, um, for our B to B software. Um, and then of all the, the things that we ourselves have used, because, you know, we have been doing, um, growing a company from 10 to 200 people as executives. We have been doing a lot of hiring. Um, recruiting seemed to be like, uh, You know, the, the stepchild that was left behind from the, uh, the revolution in enterprise software, uh, it still had very clunky, old, uh, um, archaic software, uh, made for big companies, 20 years ago. Um, and, you know, it, it hadn't been affected yet by this ren…

AI assessment note: “there wasn't an aha moment or a big burning problem we wanted to solve”

Q Um, but like, you know, the, uh, accessibility to funding, uh, availability of talented developers, was that around in, in Greece at the time?

A Actually it is. Actually it is. I mean, 10 years ago when you would need five or ten million just to get started, uh, you know, you wouldn't be able to find that kind of money if you weren't in one of the big technology hubs of the world with lots of VCs. But right now you can get started with 50 or a hundred K, or with 200 K. Ah, and right now to find your first half a million in Greece, there are funds that do it. Open Fund, ah, is one of them, and the better known one that gave us the first money. And, um, and you can definitely, um, get started and, you know, move the company to the stage where it can attract the interest of major VCs, ah, ah, in Europe or the States. So, that's a solved problem. And, And the huge advantage when you are in a peripheral market like, uh, uh, like Greece is that if you have a network there and some reputation, uh, you probably have a huge advantage in, uh, in hiring. You know, hiring engineers, uh, in Greece, there's plenty of them. They're really good. Uh, they, you know, um, uh, they're equally good to the kind of engineers that you would find anywhere else in the world. It's also, it also comes with a, You know, with the, with the territory and the, um, engineers in general are, Uh, have access to similar information and training wherever they are in the world. And, um, and, and they're plentiful, and, um, you probably have a lot less compe…

AI assessment note: “right now to find your first half a million in Greece, there are funds”

Q And so you moved to, to the US, um, because you wanted to be visible to, to larger VCs as you went further down the funding cycle. Was that why? Or what were the reasons for your move to, to the US?

A To be honest with you, I, uh, it's not for the VCs. I mean, I mean no disrespect, but you know, if you do a good business, VCs will pay attention to you. You don't need to move next door. Um, but what happened at WorkCouple is that essentially we had 50% of our customers in the United States, even before we had a single person there. Uh, and at some point the company follows the customers. So when we were, you know, having a few hundred customers and starting to grow really fast, uh, and we wanted to set up a marketing and inside sales and, um, account, um, you know, customer support infrastructure. It made sense to build this, um, uh, close to a bigger customer base. And also, while you can find great engineering and operational, uh, talent in Greece, and it doesn't matter where they are, uh, when it comes to things like online, online marketing and sales, um, the United States, I think, is no comparison to any other place in the world. And they're close to the customers.

AI assessment note: “it's not for the VCs... we had 50% of our customers in the United States”

Q And talking of location, I have to ask, we've had many founders and, and VCs who were founders on the show, but, but you are the first, uh, the first Greek founder. So what was it like starting a company in Greece? Uh, I, I don't know the Greek ecosystem too well, but, but was that tough?

A No. No, it wasn't. I, I, you know, or to put it differently, I think that the hard problems, uh, that you need to deal with when you create a startup, uh, I'm not so much location based. They are conceptual, figuring out the product market fit, designing a good product. Um, these are, these problems, you know, no location is going to make them better for you. True, uh, when you start in a small country with, um, probably, uh, you know, not as good support for starting a new business, et cetera, uh, maybe you'll have to deal with a little bit of extra hassle here and there, but in reality, you know, What? These are not the kind of things that are going to stop you.

AI assessment note: “No. No, it wasn't. I, I, you know, or to put it differently”

Q And workable, obviously, in the enterprise SaaS space, uh, and it's a space that's become massively hot in recent years. So why do you think this is? Because, I mean, you know, 10 years ago it wasn't that way at all. So what's changed to make everyone so interested and attracted, do you think, in the last few years?

A There's a couple of things going on there. One thing is that it's a, it's a fantastic, uh, measurable, graspable, predictable business model. I mean, um, after a few years, the SaaS model has matured. We all speak the same language and the same metrics. I could look at the five or 10 metrics in another business and tell you if it's doing well or what kind of potential it has. It's much easier even for, um, for investors, uh, to understand those businesses, uh, you know, to, to put them, you know, in a, in a, in a set of framework of analysis Um, and, and see how far they can go. And, and the way the model works is that after a company gets a certain level of traction and the metrics work, work well, the, the probability that the company will have a, you know, at least a moderate level of success, um, is much higher than with many other business models. Um, and at the same time, there's a huge growing market for it. One on the high enterprise market, there's a replacement Of traditional on-premise software, which is happening on mass, and there's still a lot of it to be replaced. Um, so it's very clear to see how, how many more billions are going to be thrown into cloud solutions over the next few years. And, and the other thing which looks a little less inevitable, but it is in fact happening, uh, is that with cloud solutions that cost 20 and 50 dollars a month, a lot of the me…

AI assessment note: “One thing is that it's a, it's a fantastic, uh, measurable, graspable, predictable business model.”

Q And so you moved to, to the US, um, because you wanted to be visible to, to larger VCs as you went further down the funding cycle. Was that why? Or what were the reasons for your move to, to the US?

A To be honest with you, I, uh, it's not for the VCs. I mean, I mean no disrespect, but you know, if you do a good business, VCs will pay attention to you. You don't need to move next door. Um, but what happened at WorkCouple is that essentially we had 50% of our customers in the United States, even before we had a single person there. Uh, and at some point the company follows the customers. So when we were, you know, having a few hundred customers and starting to grow really fast, uh, and we wanted to set up a marketing and inside sales and, um, account, um, you know, customer support infrastructure. It made sense to build this, um, uh, close to a bigger customer base. And also, while you can find great engineering and operational, uh, talent in Greece, and it doesn't matter where they are, uh, when it comes to things like online, online marketing and sales, um, the United States, I think, is no comparison to any other place in the world. And they're close to the customers.

AI assessment note: “To be honest with you, I, uh, it's not for the VCs.”

Q So having raised thirty four million, what, what advice would you give to founders looking to raise funds for their startup?

A The things, the things I've seen in our, in our case, because I have very little experience, I've just done it two or three times. First of all, it, it is a relationship. People should not treat it as a pitch. People talk about pitches and decks, that's bullshit. Uh, you know. Uh, the, the whole thing, it's about the relationship. You know, people, nobody's going to write you a twenty million dollar check if they haven't known you for a while, observed the way you execute, seeing consistent results. It's what, uh, um, uh, what the Mark Suster says, uh, uh, very often that they do not invest in a point, they invest in a curve. And the curve isn't just numbers. Um, it also has to do, do the investors believe that you have integrity? That you will, uh, um, make, uh, the right choices at critical points, and that takes time for someone to, that kind of relationship to, to build. Um, anyone who has ever invested at WorkUp, we knew us for more than a year, or anyone who has made an offer, who has, uh, actually taken seriously. I've never had, um, we definitely did have the metrics to support a very good investment, uh, it's an attractive company, uh, I don't think that anyone whom we met last week would invest in this company, any serious investor, no matter how good we are, no matter how good our metrics are, whatever. So I, for me, it's, it's an investment in relationship building.…

AI assessment note: “First of all, it, it is a relationship. People should not treat it as a pitch.”

Q And talking of location, I have to ask, we've had many founders and, and VCs who were founders on the show, but, but you are the first, uh, the first Greek founder. So what was it like starting a company in Greece? Uh, I, I don't know the Greek ecosystem too well, but, but was that tough?

A No. No, it wasn't. I, I, you know, or to put it differently, I think that the hard problems, uh, that you need to deal with when you create a startup, uh, I'm not so much location based. They are conceptual, figuring out the product market fit, designing a good product. Um, these are, these problems, you know, no location is going to make them better for you. True, uh, when you start in a small country with, um, probably, uh, you know, not as good support for starting a new business, et cetera, uh, maybe you'll have to deal with a little bit of extra hassle here and there, but in reality, you know, What? These are not the kind of things that are going to stop you.

AI assessment note: “No. No, it wasn't. I, I, you know, or to put it differently”

Q And workable, obviously, in the enterprise SaaS space, uh, and it's a space that's become massively hot in recent years. So why do you think this is? Because, I mean, you know, 10 years ago it wasn't that way at all. So what's changed to make everyone so interested and attracted, do you think, in the last few years?

A There's a couple of things going on there. One thing is that it's a, it's a fantastic, uh, measurable, graspable, predictable business model. I mean, um, after a few years, the SaaS model has matured. We all speak the same language and the same metrics. I could look at the five or 10 metrics in another business and tell you if it's doing well or what kind of potential it has. It's much easier even for, um, for investors, uh, to understand those businesses, uh, you know, to, to put them, you know, in a, in a, in a set of framework of analysis Um, and, and see how far they can go. And, and the way the model works is that after a company gets a certain level of traction and the metrics work, work well, the, the probability that the company will have a, you know, at least a moderate level of success, um, is much higher than with many other business models. Um, and at the same time, there's a huge growing market for it. One on the high enterprise market, there's a replacement Of traditional on-premise software, which is happening on mass, and there's still a lot of it to be replaced. Um, so it's very clear to see how, how many more billions are going to be thrown into cloud solutions over the next few years. And, and the other thing which looks a little less inevitable, but it is in fact happening, uh, is that with cloud solutions that cost 20 and 50 dollars a month, a lot of the me…

AI assessment note: “it's a fantastic, uh, measurable, graspable, predictable business model.”

Q So having raised thirty four million, what, what advice would you give to founders looking to raise funds for their startup?

A The things, the things I've seen in our, in our case, because I have very little experience, I've just done it two or three times. First of all, it, it is a relationship. People should not treat it as a pitch. People talk about pitches and decks, that's bullshit. Uh, you know. Uh, the, the whole thing, it's about the relationship. You know, people, nobody's going to write you a twenty million dollar check if they haven't known you for a while, observed the way you execute, seeing consistent results. It's what, uh, um, uh, what the Mark Suster says, uh, uh, very often that they do not invest in a point, they invest in a curve. And the curve isn't just numbers. Um, it also has to do, do the investors believe that you have integrity? That you will, uh, um, make, uh, the right choices at critical points, and that takes time for someone to, that kind of relationship to, to build. Um, anyone who has ever invested at WorkUp, we knew us for more than a year, or anyone who has made an offer, who has, uh, actually taken seriously. I've never had, um, we definitely did have the metrics to support a very good investment, uh, it's an attractive company, uh, I don't think that anyone whom we met last week would invest in this company, any serious investor, no matter how good we are, no matter how good our metrics are, whatever. So I, for me, it's, it's an investment in relationship building.…

AI assessment note: “First of all, it, it is a relationship. People should not treat it as a pitch.”