The Exchanges

Q How do we define maturity? Is that like IPO?

A Yeah, like a, let's say IPO level or major acquisition. Yeah, something like that. So, the App Store launched subscriptions in 2011. This is 12 years ago, right? So, the first companies that were started around this model, like the Calm, which was 2012, Which is 11 years ago. They just get to the level of maturity, right? So I think back to what I was saying about M.Nine and Insight, I, I realized that there's much less benchmarks and companies to point to, but I think they're emerging just now, right? So I think that the time to get to scale in this model has just been achieved. And if you look at USV, their first fund just wrapped after 18 years, right? So I think 12 years is I think that's a good average, but it can be 10 to 18. I don't know what, but whatever we, we, we think. And so I think that we are seeing the emergence of these benchmarks. And when I started thinking about these companies, it was in 2015. I'll talk more about how I started thinking about it because at that point there was no benchmark, right? There was no public company. There was no company doing hundreds of millions and that is changing now. And so I understand that from the outside looking in and being obsessed with SaaS and comparing it one to one and looking at the differences, which there are. Downsides of this model. I don't want to, I don't want to, um, I don't want to, you know.

AI assessment note: “Yeah, like a, let's say IPO level or major acquisition.”

Q I love PhotoRoom. I love CaptionZero. I think you're in CaptionZero. Yeah. I've spoken to both founders, Mathieu and Gaurav, and I've said, You make very hard product decisions very early. It's like, hey, pay up front now. And I'm like, I haven't even tried a lot of the products. And how do you feel about that decision? And they push back and say, we've got the data.

A I mean, I think there's a, that is a philosophical question. Like I can tell you the data as a company. So I invest in the best in class, um, subscription companies, but I also invest in the infrastructure for them, right? So RevenueCat, Superwall, UX cam runway. Um, so there's companies I work with there that I, that are powering these companies. So it's like, in a way it's a proxy bet for me on the, on the thesis, but there's also a lot of synergies, right? And so what Superwall is doing is optimizing paywalls. And so one of the learnings that we have from that is that the number one indicator for driving conversion is how often do you see the paywall, right? And so that is like, it's very common sense. And you can err on the side of being annoying, which you want to avoid, depends on what your strategy is, but usually you probably avoid that. But showing the paywall does not necessarily mean you have to convert. And so most of these are structured in a way where you have a free trial, you are being shown the paywall often, but there is a certain amount of free usage that you have. But the more often you show it, the higher the conversion will be. And then paradoxically also, the pay conversion Oftentimes activates the user, right? So it's like, there is some like, it's like maybe the gym membership effect. I'm not sure, but it really, it really often drives higher engagement…

AI assessment note: “the number one indicator for driving conversion is how often do you see the paywall”

Q Absolutely. And do you have any examples of where you've used a product in the pitch and instantly been sold on it?

A Uh, yes, um, actually we, we do. So I think we're quite product focused overall as a firm. So if you, if you go look at our portfolio, there's, I think, a number of companies that really stick out just because they've really nailed product. And, and I think this is important because I really, I don't think that, that a great product On its own is enough to build an amazing company, but I think it's an, it's a ideal foundation, right? Um, so one of the, one of the examples here would be Typeform, which is a, um, a survey tool that works really, really well on desktop, and also on mobile, whatever device you're using, and it's just beautiful, right? You have, if you set people on, on something like this, um, versus, you know, a Google survey, or maybe, um, and I'm burning the competition a bit here, a survey monkey form or something like that, It's just a huge difference, right, in terms of user experience and in terms of, and this translates also into that in, in, in conversion, right, and better performance for the, for the actual customer, and, and here this was really a case where, um, we looked at it quite early in the, in the company's lifetime. They had the product, um, pretty far, but, but they didn't charge users yet, right? They were kind of in an extended beta version, and we saw the product, and we just, we just really loved it, and, and so we, we took a leap there, a…

AI assessment note: “one of the examples here would be Typeform”

Q Now this will be one of the best shows we've done because we're just going to shoot the shit. We're going to start as usual. I want to know how did you get into venture first and just set the stage there?

A Yeah. Um, so I started my journey in high school, not in investing, but In the first step towards, um, investing, which was I imported iPhones from the UK, unlocked them, refurbished them, resold them, which then really opened my eyes to entrepreneurship, one, and two, some of the money I made to invest in Apple stock in 2008, nine, which, um, I guess taught me two things. One, you can make money online. Two, if you believe in something and you put the money behind it, then that can work out for you. I didn't, you know, it was very little money and I, I actually took it out pretty soon after. For vacation with a girlfriend. But it was still, it was still, you know, the learning was there. And so I, at the time that this was happening was at 2008. And when I started studying, I read about a group in Berlin called team Europe. They were a company builder, um, pretty similar to rocket smaller, they built delivery hero, a couple of other outcomes. And they had a small seed fund on the side with six million euros. And that was managed by Pavel, who was later one of the founders of .9. And so I reached out to them, sent them a cold email, asked if I could do an internship. This is in 2010. And Pavel got back to me and, um, came to visit a town close to where I was studying in Germany. And I had a conversation with him. He liked what I did with the iPhones. I actually just had investe…

AI assessment note: “sent them a cold email, asked if I could do an internship”

Q of me there. You said, you know, that's why I think Seed's a great place to be. And we're jumping around, but we said before that actually, A kind of sucks as a place to be. Now I have my thoughts around why, but as I don't want to lead the guest, how do you feel about the right insertion point and where kind of price to value is best?

A So I, I, I, I, it's hard for me to, to really make a qualified statement across all verticals because I, I, I can't, it's really depends, right? There's grade A's for sure. Um, I think there's also a grade A's in my category. I just, I think that the best for me, that's why I chose, um, seed is that I believe that seed is the best in terms of upside potential, downside risk, and Expected future dilution, especially given that we, I operate under the assumption that we, I have multi-billion dollar exits, not ten billion dollar exit, right? That is reflected in both when I come in, and then how big my fund is, which is reasonably small, and consciously so, because I want the strategy to work, even if it's a two billion dollar exit, it should return the fund once, twice, maybe three times, depends on when, how, how early I got in. And so I think that's why I choose Seed, right? And I think The reason to expand more strongly to A would be that we have more confidence that the outcomes get bigger, and we have some, you know, I guess, portfolio that warrants diversification across a number of investments. And so I think that there's a limit to how late you want to raise capital with these companies, right? And so that's also a mismatch that I have with some of the multistage funds, right? Because For me, if I invested seed or A, I do seed and A, right? It's like, I would say, 70, 75%…

AI assessment note: “I believe that seed is the best in terms of upside potential”

Q of me there. You said, you know, that's why I think Seed's a great place to be. And we're jumping around, but we said before that actually, A kind of sucks as a place to be. Now I have my thoughts around why, but as I don't want to lead the guest, how do you feel about the right insertion point and where kind of price to value is best?

A So I, I, I, I, it's hard for me to, to really make a qualified statement across all verticals because I, I, I can't, it's really depends, right? There's grade A's for sure. Um, I think there's also a grade A's in my category. I just, I think that the best for me, that's why I chose, um, seed is that I believe that seed is the best in terms of upside potential, downside risk, and Expected future dilution, especially given that we, I operate under the assumption that we, I have multi-billion dollar exits, not ten billion dollar exit, right? That is reflected in both when I come in, and then how big my fund is, which is reasonably small, and consciously so, because I want the strategy to work, even if it's a two billion dollar exit, it should return the fund once, twice, maybe three times, depends on when, how, how early I got in. And so I think that's why I choose Seed, right? And I think The reason to expand more strongly to A would be that we have more confidence that the outcomes get bigger, and we have some, you know, I guess, portfolio that warrants diversification across a number of investments. And so I think that there's a limit to how late you want to raise capital with these companies, right? And so that's also a mismatch that I have with some of the multistage funds, right? Because For me, if I invested seed or A, I do seed and A, right? It's like, I would say, 70, 75%…

AI assessment note: “seed is the best in terms of upside potential, downside risk, and Expected future dilution”

Q Do children make you more hungry for money? That's something that we spoke about on message. But like, kids change a lot.

A I think, I mean, what changed actually, I think, I mean, and I'm still a young dad, right? My, my daughter turns three this month, and my son will be born in one and a half months. So also still learning there, but the, I think it didn't make me, I, I actually am quite concerned about people that grow up, grow up with too much money. I think that it can be very harmful for kids to be too pampered. And so, I want to provide security for my family, and I really enjoy being able to take my wife. We went to Japan recently as a baby moon with her next baby and like went to nice hotels. And that's, I feel very grateful that I'm able to do that. And I really appreciate it. It's not that I really don't take that for granted at all. So I, I'm proud that I achieved that. Um, at the same time, I don't have a number in mind. I don't, Think that more money will make me any happier. I don't think I need more money to make my kids happier. You know, like it's really not what's driving me today. And I think what changed with the kids is more understanding that I think it makes you think even more long-term in some ways, because you want the world to look good for your kids. And so you think about things that might happen beyond Your, like, next, you know, lifespan, whatever it is. But I think that also, for me, I think that had a positive impact on where I want to focus my investments, right? …

AI assessment note: “I don't think that more money will make me any happier.”

Q And you mentioned there SaaS and the product then. What do you expect to see at this Seeds Stage, or kind of, you know, pre-series A stage. What are you looking for? Are you looking for a working product, a demo, a wireframe? What's your preference?

A So, um, we do, we do typically only invest, uh, when there's a first product. That doesn't, doesn't mean that the product has to be perfect, right? So it can be a beta, or maybe even a demo version, and this is actually, this is a fun fact, nobody knows this, because it's a kind of, I guess, a bit far out, but the name .nine actually comes from, um, the product version, .nine, so we, we want to invest when it's not Product version one point zero yet, right? But it's almost there in a way. Um, so this is a kind of, I guess, the stage that we want to get into. And, um, in, in, in most cases, this means that, uh, we invest when there's some six to 12 months of first data of actually usage of the product or maybe customers paying for this. Of course, sometimes we, we have invested even after that. And often we have even have cases where we invested in, in companies pre or, or just at launch, um, But in most of these cases, we've worked with the entrepreneurs before, and we just know that there's very little execution risk, right?

AI assessment note: “we do typically only invest, uh, when there's a first product.”

Q And you touched there on the team. Do you have any preferences, you yourself, or .9, As to the, the, the team's founding. Do you prefer numerous founders? Technical founders? Uh, first time founders? What are your thoughts?

A Um, so again, I think, so we've seen all of that working, right? So we've worked with single founders that are just crazy strong and, and managed to, to build a great company almost on the, but not, not by themselves, but they managed, you know, to recruit great people and help them build this company. So this can happen. Um, we of course have, uh, worked with first time entrepreneurs many times. And, um, I guess ideally what we look for is kind of a, um, complimentary team where, um, you know, you have a technical founder, you have a, Business guy, maybe a design leader or just a visionary, you know, that can tell a story and set the strategy and fundraise. Um, at the end of the day, this is not a hard criteria though, right? So I guess it just really depends on what kind of play you're going for. So at .9, for instance, we're very focused on, on, um, SaaS and, and marketplaces, right? And specifically for software as a service where you, you're essentially, um, um, online or cloud software company, it's super important to, to have great product people and great technical people, right? Because At the end of the day, it's about, um, really differentiating with the solution that you're creating and, and then distributing that, and I think here it is a lot more important to have a great technical team versus maybe an e-commerce play where it's a lot more about execution, right? …

AI assessment note: “ideally what we look for is kind of a, um, complimentary team”

Q In terms of business models. So, so say Snapchat ephemeral messaging was not really a multi-billion dollar industry at the time, but now it is. How would you approach new emerging markets? Right.

A So, um, that's a very good, also a very hard question to answer, I think, and my thinking on this has developed quite a bit in my time in VC. So, um, we talked about TEM just now, so the total address of the market, and when you go in, this is kind of the standard that you're looking for, but over time, I came to realize that this TEM, in a way, already, um, is defined as a market that's already existing, right? Because you're trying to figure out Which part of an existing market you can address with this company or the solution? Um, and I think this is very, very hard, especially in these, in these models that, that you mentioned that, you know, haven't been there before, that opening up a new market maybe altogether. So I think, um, the key here, at least as my current thinking, um, is a combination of two things. And that's one, it's, um, having proxies of maybe not the exact same, uh, model or, or kind of Business, um, that, that is, that, that you're going after now, but, but kind of the, in the similar space, right? So looking at, for example, with Snapchat, just advertising volume on, on, on desktop, and seeing how this could translate to, to mobile, and how much of that, um, they could capture, and I think the other, maybe even more important part here, because it's more, um, measurable, I guess, in, in the early stages, is, um, just looking at other, um, Numeric, um, s…

AI assessment note: “is a combination of two things. And that's one, it's, um, having proxies”

Q Can you tell me when you've broken your own limitations?

A This, I don't want to take the full credit for it, but this is one of the reasons why that this is the case. When I was with .9 and reinvested in Revolut, it was both outside of the focus, right? It's a mobile consumer app. Um, it was actually had just closed the seat round with Balderton. So there was no actionable opportunity and the only way to get Um, in was actually forcing, forcing them to take more money at a step up in valuation, which was, I think at the time, the highest valuation we had accepted at .9 and also led to the lowest ownership that we had at least for seed. And it was a great decision, right? So what does it tell you? I think that part of the frameworks that we set for ourselves are litmus test for the conviction to break them. You know, and this is a very, you know.

AI assessment note: “When I was with .9 and reinvested in Revolut, it was both outside of the focus”

Q Well, and I'd love to walk through now your, your kind of process or checklist when seeing and viewing new companies. So the first thing you look at, say, is the total addressable market. How, how big does the market have to be to get you excited personally?

A Um, yeah, so, so I guess, um, a caveat here is that although I also like to think of checklists, you know, and like kind of what we, what we need to look at, It's kind of hard to get something that's standardized and works for every case in VC, I think, because the case is just so dependent, um, on the case-by-case, um, cases, you know. So every, every company you look at can have a different angle, and, and you also rarely have time and, and the information available to, to make a complete decision on all of these factors. Um, still, I, I think it's a good approach, you know, to, to definitely look at the market size and a lot of these other things, and, um, In terms of how big the term has to be, um, it really depends in general on, on two things. The fund size is one, and the other is, uh, what kind of strategy you have as a fund, right? Um, and for us at .9, we have a seed fund, right? So the, the most recent fund that we closed, uh, in May this year is fifty five million euros. Um, so we're very well positioned kind of between, um, on the one hand, angels and kind of seed money, and on the other side, proper I would say series A VC, institutional VC funds, and for us, what we aim for when we do an investment is trying to get to, to an outcome that at least returns the fund once, right? So you can do the math, and this means that if, if there's a, a company that can get to …

AI assessment note: “an outcome that at least returns the fund once”

Q And you mentioned there SaaS and the product then. What do you expect to see at this Seeds Stage, or kind of, you know, pre-series A stage. What are you looking for? Are you looking for a working product, a demo, a wireframe? What's your preference?

A So, um, we do, we do typically only invest, uh, when there's a first product. That doesn't, doesn't mean that the product has to be perfect, right? So it can be a beta, or maybe even a demo version, and this is actually, this is a fun fact, nobody knows this, because it's a kind of, I guess, a bit far out, but the name .nine actually comes from, um, the product version, .nine, so we, we want to invest when it's not Product version one point zero yet, right? But it's almost there in a way. Um, so this is a kind of, I guess, the stage that we want to get into. And, um, in, in, in most cases, this means that, uh, we invest when there's some six to 12 months of first data of actually usage of the product or maybe customers paying for this. Of course, sometimes we, we have invested even after that. And often we have even have cases where we invested in, in companies pre or, or just at launch, um, But in most of these cases, we've worked with the entrepreneurs before, and we just know that there's very little execution risk, right?

AI assessment note: “we do typically only invest, uh, when there's a first product”

Q money? And I was like, what? Yeah, I agree with that. Yeah, yeah. Okay, so if we take that and we take this assumption that actually there will be billion dollar companies, maybe three, four, five, but the 10 is harder. Take that back to the fund model. How big is the fund? How many lines, like number of companies in the fund? Just walk me through that portfolio construction.

A So the fund is, uh, I, I never announced the funds and I'm inclined not to do so, but I'll give you all the other things, um, of the model and, and, you know, you can work back from that. So the model is that I have somewhere between 20 and 25 companies in a fund. The majority of that is seed. Um, seed for me is a little more flexible than how other people think about it. So I've, um, done very early seed from Opal, right? We've done that together. Uh, Kenneth and a prototype. Um, and then I've done late seed, which is, um, company has raised the seed, but I really want to invest and I find a way to get them to agree. And that means it's a bit of a later seed in terms of the pricing, but it's not quite yet an A. And so that's where I move. It's like, there's some flexibility in that. I also don't care about the label so much. Like some of the seeds I've done, And some of the A's that I've done were at the same valuation, you know, like, so it's just like, I don't, those labels are arbitrary to me. And so I just try to get my ownership on those 20 to 25 companies, which is, um, with the current fund I'm investing in, it's 10%. For the last six months, it's actually been 11% because the macro is starting to come down. Maybe also I'm becoming more bold. I don't know. But, um, it's, it's 10% for, for the average of this fund. The first fund was a little different. Because I erred o…

AI assessment note: “I never announced the funds and I'm inclined not to do so”

Q Well, and I'd love to walk through now your, your kind of process or checklist when seeing and viewing new companies. So the first thing you look at, say, is the total addressable market. How, how big does the market have to be to get you excited personally?

A Um, yeah, so, so I guess, um, a caveat here is that although I also like to think of checklists, you know, and like kind of what we, what we need to look at, It's kind of hard to get something that's standardized and works for every case in VC, I think, because the case is just so dependent, um, on the case-by-case, um, cases, you know. So every, every company you look at can have a different angle, and, and you also rarely have time and, and the information available to, to make a complete decision on all of these factors. Um, still, I, I think it's a good approach, you know, to, to definitely look at the market size and a lot of these other things, and, um, In terms of how big the term has to be, um, it really depends in general on, on two things. The fund size is one, and the other is, uh, what kind of strategy you have as a fund, right? Um, and for us at .9, we have a seed fund, right? So the, the most recent fund that we closed, uh, in May this year is fifty five million euros. Um, so we're very well positioned kind of between, um, on the one hand, angels and kind of seed money, and on the other side, proper I would say series A VC, institutional VC funds, and for us, what we aim for when we do an investment is trying to get to, to an outcome that at least returns the fund once, right? So you can do the math, and this means that if, if there's a, a company that can get to …

AI assessment note: “In terms of how big the term has to be, um, it really depends”

Q How do we define maturity? Is that like IPO?

A Yeah, like a, let's say IPO level or major acquisition. Yeah, something like that. So, the App Store launched subscriptions in 2011. This is 12 years ago, right? So, the first companies that were started around this model, like the Calm, which was 2012, Which is 11 years ago. They just get to the level of maturity, right? So I think back to what I was saying about M.Nine and Insight, I, I realized that there's much less benchmarks and companies to point to, but I think they're emerging just now, right? So I think that the time to get to scale in this model has just been achieved. And if you look at USV, their first fund just wrapped after 18 years, right? So I think 12 years is I think that's a good average, but it can be 10 to 18. I don't know what, but whatever we, we, we think. And so I think that we are seeing the emergence of these benchmarks. And when I started thinking about these companies, it was in 2015. I'll talk more about how I started thinking about it because at that point there was no benchmark, right? There was no public company. There was no company doing hundreds of millions and that is changing now. And so I understand that from the outside looking in and being obsessed with SaaS and comparing it one to one and looking at the differences, which there are. Downsides of this model. I don't want to, I don't want to, um, I don't want to, you know.

AI assessment note: “Yeah, like a, let's say IPO level or major acquisition. Yeah, something like that.”

Q Is it? You could argue both ways, but they very much argue. They have a preference. They have a preference for sure. But my point being, because of our cap fund sizes, and we're both in the same ballpark of fund sizes, um, it's better for me that, do you see what I mean? Do you ever worry about that? And how would you advise me there, actually? Really interesting.

A I think we're, we're in the, we're serving founders, and I think that long term, we will only be successful if the founders that we work with are happy with how We're collaborating with them. Does it mean that there's some tension sometimes between what you require and your fund model and what the founders require or want? Yes. But I think that the start of a partnership ideally is Being open about your limitations or the things that you need to be feeling good about this and then finding the common denominator, right? So I cannot say in this scenario specifically that probably like some context, but the way I would approach it is think about what I would like then really understanding where they're coming from and what they're optimizing for and then trying to Fit that together as good as possible.

AI assessment note: “the way I would approach it is think about what I would like then really understanding”

Q How do you decide which board seats to take?

A Uh, it's, so the, the, I'm still also learning about this, okay? I'm also, I guess this now is coming up on four years as my own fund manager, so there's areas that I'm also still learning. The way that I've approached it so far is that at Seed, you don't need a board, I think, because you're chasing product market fit, and so most of the time I'm in your way. The best thing I can do is share learnings from the other companies, share, you know, be a strategic thought partner, and then make introductions to other founders that have Face similar issues or solve things that you're facing right now. And so that's, that's my role. And then, you know, there's some like financing related things and stuff like that, but that's really how I see my role. And so then from a, I think it makes sense to have a board since I'm usually not the one that leads to a, I give myself, um, an option to be an observer on the board, which will be excellent if it makes sense, but I'm also very happy to let people decide how they want to structure the board. I think there's people that invest at A that are very good. For example, um, I, I, I love USV. I collaborate with them. One of the Series A's that I, that I co-led recently was with, uh, with USV, and I was very happy to have them take the board seat because, yes, I want to learn, and I, I have an observer, so I can dial in if I want. I do that usual…

AI assessment note: “I give myself, um, an option to be an observer on the board”

Q I love PhotoRoom. I love CaptionZero. I think you're in CaptionZero. Yeah. I've spoken to both founders, Mathieu and Gaurav, and I've said, You make very hard product decisions very early. It's like, hey, pay up front now. And I'm like, I haven't even tried a lot of the products. And how do you feel about that decision? And they push back and say, we've got the data.

A I mean, I think there's a, that is a philosophical question. Like I can tell you the data as a company. So I invest in the best in class, um, subscription companies, but I also invest in the infrastructure for them, right? So RevenueCat, Superwall, UX cam runway. Um, so there's companies I work with there that I, that are powering these companies. So it's like, in a way it's a proxy bet for me on the, on the thesis, but there's also a lot of synergies, right? And so what Superwall is doing is optimizing paywalls. And so one of the learnings that we have from that is that the number one indicator for driving conversion is how often do you see the paywall, right? And so that is like, it's very common sense. And you can err on the side of being annoying, which you want to avoid, depends on what your strategy is, but usually you probably avoid that. But showing the paywall does not necessarily mean you have to convert. And so most of these are structured in a way where you have a free trial, you are being shown the paywall often, but there is a certain amount of free usage that you have. But the more often you show it, the higher the conversion will be. And then paradoxically also, the pay conversion Oftentimes activates the user, right? So it's like, there is some like, it's like maybe the gym membership effect. I'm not sure, but it really, it really often drives higher engagement…

AI assessment note: “the number one indicator for driving conversion is how often do you see the paywall”

Q How do you decide which board seats to take?

A Uh, it's, so the, the, I'm still also learning about this, okay? I'm also, I guess this now is coming up on four years as my own fund manager, so there's areas that I'm also still learning. The way that I've approached it so far is that at Seed, you don't need a board, I think, because you're chasing product market fit, and so most of the time I'm in your way. The best thing I can do is share learnings from the other companies, share, you know, be a strategic thought partner, and then make introductions to other founders that have Face similar issues or solve things that you're facing right now. And so that's, that's my role. And then, you know, there's some like financing related things and stuff like that, but that's really how I see my role. And so then from a, I think it makes sense to have a board since I'm usually not the one that leads to a, I give myself, um, an option to be an observer on the board, which will be excellent if it makes sense, but I'm also very happy to let people decide how they want to structure the board. I think there's people that invest at A that are very good. For example, um, I, I, I love USV. I collaborate with them. One of the Series A's that I, that I co-led recently was with, uh, with USV, and I was very happy to have them take the board seat because, yes, I want to learn, and I, I have an observer, so I can dial in if I want. I do that usual…

AI assessment note: “at Seed, you don't need a board... I give myself an option to be an observer”

Q Did your decision making change for that seven versus the one and a half?

A Yeah. So the, so my position currently is, um, I made this graph, which, um, is probably the simplest positioning graph that if you had a whiteboard here, I would just put it on the wall now, but it's, um, I, I, I tried to lead at seed and I tried to co-lead at A. And so what that means is that again, you know, three quarters of the fund are seed within early and late seed. And then the A's that I'm doing, I usually collaborate with other funds on them. And so, especially in this macro, I started doing this a year ago, but it's, I, I, I think I've, I, I like that part of the strategy because my fund is small enough so that I can do it so that I can get on my ownership target and another fund can get on their ownership target. At the same time, it enables the founder to have more money so that they have longer runway, which typically now I plan for three years.

AI assessment note: “I tried to lead at seed and I tried to co-lead at A.”

Q So now you've loved the product, you've tried it, it's fantastic. Going under the bonnet then, what are the key metrics you would then look for after seeing the product?

A Uh, yes. So as some, as some I mentioned right now, it's, um, for us, because we're at such an early stage, hard to set kind of absolute, um, barriers or criteria, because, um, it depends so much on how, how far the company is, right? So we don't like to give out a number of total MRR or something like this. Um, I think what's more important for us is kind of the relative, um, movement. So there has to be some growth, and we like to see some kind of heavy Engagement. And this can, of course, be translated in MRR growth because people are just expanding their accounts and so on, but it could also just be, um, you really see that this, this tool is, is part of, of, um, the customer's work there, right? So they're logging in once a day, maybe a few times per day, and it just, like, it becomes like a system of record for them. Um, and, and another thing here is that, um, so we talk a lot about KPIs in this context, right? And I actually, I tried to, I tried to define this, this, this term, which unfortunately didn't stick at all But, um, I tried to call it a key usage indicator, right? So, so moving away a little bit from, from the kind of financial, financial terms, um, and thinking about for, what is the kind of atomic user journey for, um, for your product, right? What is kind of the core function that a user is, is, um, using your product for? And I think in the beginning, espe…

AI assessment note: “what's more important for us is kind of the relative, um, movement.”

Q Is it? You could argue both ways, but they very much argue. They have a preference. They have a preference for sure. But my point being, because of our cap fund sizes, and we're both in the same ballpark of fund sizes, um, it's better for me that, do you see what I mean? Do you ever worry about that? And how would you advise me there, actually? Really interesting.

A I think we're, we're in the, we're serving founders, and I think that long term, we will only be successful if the founders that we work with are happy with how We're collaborating with them. Does it mean that there's some tension sometimes between what you require and your fund model and what the founders require or want? Yes. But I think that the start of a partnership ideally is Being open about your limitations or the things that you need to be feeling good about this and then finding the common denominator, right? So I cannot say in this scenario specifically that probably like some context, but the way I would approach it is think about what I would like then really understanding where they're coming from and what they're optimizing for and then trying to Fit that together as good as possible.

AI assessment note: “the way I would approach it is think about what I would like then really understanding”

Q Am I, am I proud to tell my children that I invested in X company?

A And that's, and I think so, so I do, I think kids, and this is a bit of a rational way of saying it, but I think kids are, are a very smart, Invention by nature or forcing function to force us to think long-term, right? Because we're all, and like, especially us, right? We're like, solo GPs, you know, started a firm, like, no, no, no. We think a lot about ourselves, right? We're like, we have a lot of ego. This is everybody, but like, I think us as well. So it's like learning how to think about other people. Um, it's a process, right? And VCs are not the best at it. Um, and so I think that like awareness of, We're part of a whole, this is my family. These are my friends. These are the companies I work with. These are all the employers that they have. This is all the customers that we're touching, like a lot of people's lives indirectly. And there comes a responsibility with that of making sure that we do our part so that all of this doesn't only serve ourselves, but also the broader community of people, even beyond that. I don't, I'm a vegetarian for 12 years. So I, like, this is a, like, I, I think I try to think more broadly about how we fit into everything else. And so, yes, I, I am also an egoistic person in some ways, and yes, I want to be successful, but I, I try more and more, and I think kids are one of the ways that this has changed for me to be Have a broader perspect…

AI assessment note: “I think kids are, are a very smart, Invention by nature or forcing function”

Q money? And I was like, what? Yeah, I agree with that. Yeah, yeah. Okay, so if we take that and we take this assumption that actually there will be billion dollar companies, maybe three, four, five, but the 10 is harder. Take that back to the fund model. How big is the fund? How many lines, like number of companies in the fund? Just walk me through that portfolio construction.

A So the fund is, uh, I, I never announced the funds and I'm inclined not to do so, but I'll give you all the other things, um, of the model and, and, you know, you can work back from that. So the model is that I have somewhere between 20 and 25 companies in a fund. The majority of that is seed. Um, seed for me is a little more flexible than how other people think about it. So I've, um, done very early seed from Opal, right? We've done that together. Uh, Kenneth and a prototype. Um, and then I've done late seed, which is, um, company has raised the seed, but I really want to invest and I find a way to get them to agree. And that means it's a bit of a later seed in terms of the pricing, but it's not quite yet an A. And so that's where I move. It's like, there's some flexibility in that. I also don't care about the label so much. Like some of the seeds I've done, And some of the A's that I've done were at the same valuation, you know, like, so it's just like, I don't, those labels are arbitrary to me. And so I just try to get my ownership on those 20 to 25 companies, which is, um, with the current fund I'm investing in, it's 10%. For the last six months, it's actually been 11% because the macro is starting to come down. Maybe also I'm becoming more bold. I don't know. But, um, it's, it's 10% for, for the average of this fund. The first fund was a little different. Because I erred o…

AI assessment note: “I never announced the funds and I'm inclined not to do so”

Q Am I, am I proud to tell my children that I invested in X company?

A And that's, and I think so, so I do, I think kids, and this is a bit of a rational way of saying it, but I think kids are, are a very smart, Invention by nature or forcing function to force us to think long-term, right? Because we're all, and like, especially us, right? We're like, solo GPs, you know, started a firm, like, no, no, no. We think a lot about ourselves, right? We're like, we have a lot of ego. This is everybody, but like, I think us as well. So it's like learning how to think about other people. Um, it's a process, right? And VCs are not the best at it. Um, and so I think that like awareness of, We're part of a whole, this is my family. These are my friends. These are the companies I work with. These are all the employers that they have. This is all the customers that we're touching, like a lot of people's lives indirectly. And there comes a responsibility with that of making sure that we do our part so that all of this doesn't only serve ourselves, but also the broader community of people, even beyond that. I don't, I'm a vegetarian for 12 years. So I, like, this is a, like, I, I think I try to think more broadly about how we fit into everything else. And so, yes, I, I am also an egoistic person in some ways, and yes, I want to be successful, but I, I try more and more, and I think kids are one of the ways that this has changed for me to be Have a broader perspect…

AI assessment note: “I think so, so I do, I think kids”

Q Did your decision making change for that seven versus the one and a half?

A Yeah. So the, so my position currently is, um, I made this graph, which, um, is probably the simplest positioning graph that if you had a whiteboard here, I would just put it on the wall now, but it's, um, I, I, I tried to lead at seed and I tried to co-lead at A. And so what that means is that again, you know, three quarters of the fund are seed within early and late seed. And then the A's that I'm doing, I usually collaborate with other funds on them. And so, especially in this macro, I started doing this a year ago, but it's, I, I, I think I've, I, I like that part of the strategy because my fund is small enough so that I can do it so that I can get on my ownership target and another fund can get on their ownership target. At the same time, it enables the founder to have more money so that they have longer runway, which typically now I plan for three years.

AI assessment note: “Yeah. So the, so my position currently is”

Q So you've teed me up perfectly there with a couple of different kind of chapters. I want to start first on the institutions themselves, .9 insight, two of the most respected for different things. What's one takeaway from each that's impacted how you think and taken with you to adjacent?

A Yeah. Um, so there's, there's, there's more than one. I'm gonna try to distill it. Um, the, I think for .9, really the, they opened my, my eyes to the world of venture, right? So it was really, I did, I had no idea that venture existed as such. And I think very few people did in 2010 in Germany, right? Or in Europe in general. Um, so it was really just understanding that there is an industry that invests in innovation and Can make money and, you know, collaborate with the founders in a way that, that is venture capital was not clear to me. And it was really coincidental, as I said, how I actually learned about it. And so I think that whole, you know, opening of the world also giving me autonomy of, you know, being involved full stack in all aspects of, of investing and then leading my own deals, um, and also beyond sharing credit for those deals and, Being LPs in my fund later on and being supportive, I think I just, I wanted, they opened my eyes to venture to, obviously I learned a lot from, from just being alongside them and seeing how they operated. But also I think as people, um, for me, they were, you know, they put me, somehow they put me in business, right? They taught me and.

AI assessment note: “I think for .9, really the, they opened my, my eyes”

Q When you look back now, do you, do you wish you had?

A Hey, did I, would I, let's say it this way, I now have one kid, I'm expecting a second, and it's very important to me to be a good father to the family, both a husband and a father to my kids, because I do think it really, um, I think it really did hurt when, I think when your dad leaves at a young age, it just leaves a mark, and I think that's part of where my drive comes from. I don't think it's all of it, right? I think there's, there's genetics and, um, Just, you know, serendipity and how things play out and so on. But I, I certainly, I also, we grew up with very little money, and my mom had three kids from different fathers by herself. Um, and when I grew up, that was also, there were limitations, right? And so you, I think I just tried to, those things, like, I tried to just have, um, agency and, um, independence. Well, I don't want to make it sound like I had, like, I had everything that I needed. I never was hungry. I had my mom, I know, loved me, and, you know, I think that there's much worse upbringings, so I don't want to, um, go there, but I just think that finding...

AI assessment note: “let's say it this way, I now have one kid, I'm expecting a second”

Q So you've teed me up perfectly there with a couple of different kind of chapters. I want to start first on the institutions themselves, .9 insight, two of the most respected for different things. What's one takeaway from each that's impacted how you think and taken with you to adjacent?

A Yeah. Um, so there's, there's, there's more than one. I'm gonna try to distill it. Um, the, I think for .9, really the, they opened my, my eyes to the world of venture, right? So it was really, I did, I had no idea that venture existed as such. And I think very few people did in 2010 in Germany, right? Or in Europe in general. Um, so it was really just understanding that there is an industry that invests in innovation and Can make money and, you know, collaborate with the founders in a way that, that is venture capital was not clear to me. And it was really coincidental, as I said, how I actually learned about it. And so I think that whole, you know, opening of the world also giving me autonomy of, you know, being involved full stack in all aspects of, of investing and then leading my own deals, um, and also beyond sharing credit for those deals and, Being LPs in my fund later on and being supportive, I think I just, I wanted, they opened my eyes to venture to, obviously I learned a lot from, from just being alongside them and seeing how they operated. But also I think as people, um, for me, they were, you know, they put me, somehow they put me in business, right? They taught me and.

AI assessment note: “I think for .9, really the, they opened my, my eyes to the world”