The Exchanges

Q I think the kind of biggest commonality I've interviewed some of the biggest founders in the world in their success is persistence. It's when it doesn't work, continuously showing up and putting in the work. My question to you is when it wasn't working, what did you tell yourself in your head that was keeping you showing up, keeping you believing that it one day would work?

A Well, persistence is, I am persistent, which is quite an annoying, I think, feature of my personality, but I, I, I, I knew that people wanted to eat and drink and have a good time, so I just knew that what I was doing at that precise moment wasn't, wasn't, wasn't what, exactly what they wanted, so I kept having to work at what people wanted, and when we opened Café Bohème, or I opened Café Bohème in 1992, I sort of did everything in exact reverse to what Over the Top was, you know, the, The, the atmosphere, the decor, the food, the, the service. I, I completely, um, swapped it around and changed it around, and thankfully Café Bohème, which is still thriving in Old Compton Street today, 30 years on, is, is, is worked.

AI assessment note: “I knew that people wanted to eat and drink and have a good time”

Q And how did it feel? I'm sorry. I'm too intrigued.

A It felt, I didn't feel like a failure, I just felt that I, I have to keep trying, keep rolling the dice until I get it right, and there's, and I think it came at a really good time for me, because I think if I had set out and the first restaurant I opened was a smash hit, and there were queues, and people were raving about it, you know, I, I, I, I would have never have had that incredibly useful experience of, of Running a business which wasn't working. So, I sort of look back and I think, yes, it was the right way of it happening. And also, learnt a lot, learnt how, you know, you keep the team motivated when the place is going so badly. You, you learn how you Pay supplies when you have very little money. Ah, you learn all sorts of things, and I think I've taken all the things I've learned to not been a success, you know, to, to, to where I am now.

AI assessment note: “I didn't feel like a failure, I just felt that I, I have to keep trying”

Q Tell me, what would you most like to change about the hospitality world today?

A I'd love everyone to realize that it's such a brilliant industry to go into, and I think the perception is that it's still not, and I think, you know, I think going into hospitality, you learn skills that you keep for the whole of your life, whether it's, you know, meeting people and getting on with different people you wouldn't ever otherwise be in contact with, learning how to make a cocktail, making a bed, learning how to pick up a load of plates and clearing a table. These are skills you could have whatever you go off and do in life. So I just wish everyone in their, in their mind thought, I always got to do two years as a, as a bartender or a server.

AI assessment note: “I'd love everyone to realize that it's such a brilliant industry to go into”

Q Can I ask you a weird one? I told you we go off topic, but did you, did you always know that you'd be successful? I find often there's this innate belief that you will make it. Did you have this?

A No, I didn't. And, and, you know, because I was at school, and, and, and when you're dyslexic, you, you, you're, you're the bottom of everything, so you, you, you don't expect success, and I wasn't particularly I wasn't good at sport. I wasn't very good at art. Um, yeah, I was a sort of below average at everything, so I didn't think success was, was there for me to grab, um, and it didn't really worry me. I, I, and I still think even now, you know, I, I do it because I love it, and I'm lucky to love the job I do, and I, people perceive me, you know, that I've done well, but I don't perceive that in myself.

AI assessment note: “No, I didn't.”

Q Can I ask, in terms of, like, the city selection, how do you think about city selection in terms of what comes next? I'm too fascinated. You said about Asia, you said about Africa, you said about You know, Mexico City. How does that prioritization list on expansion look?

A Well, you know, I talked about 85 cities that we will be in, in the next three to four years, and, but at the moment we already have a presence in all those cities through our membership CWH, which is basically, as it says on the tin, cities without houses. So within those 85 cities, we already have membership. We already have membership events. We have membership representation in all of those cities. And what happens in those cities is the member then finds that your, your CWH member then finds you the perfect house. They then hook you up with the local developer. They hook you up with all the things that you need to make that house work. So, and also we can tell by CWH how, how popular or how, what need there is for a house in that city by how many CWH members there are.

AI assessment note: “we can tell by CWH... what need there is for a house in that city”

Q And how did it feel? I'm sorry. I'm too intrigued.

A It felt, I didn't feel like a failure, I just felt that I, I have to keep trying, keep rolling the dice until I get it right, and there's, and I think it came at a really good time for me, because I think if I had set out and the first restaurant I opened was a smash hit, and there were queues, and people were raving about it, you know, I, I, I, I would have never have had that incredibly useful experience of, of Running a business which wasn't working. So, I sort of look back and I think, yes, it was the right way of it happening. And also, learnt a lot, learnt how, you know, you keep the team motivated when the place is going so badly. You, you learn how you Pay supplies when you have very little money. Ah, you learn all sorts of things, and I think I've taken all the things I've learned to not been a success, you know, to, to, to where I am now.

AI assessment note: “I didn't feel like a failure, I just felt that I have to keep trying”

Q Can I ask, in terms of, like, the city selection, how do you think about city selection in terms of what comes next? I'm too fascinated. You said about Asia, you said about Africa, you said about You know, Mexico City. How does that prioritization list on expansion look?

A Well, you know, I talked about 85 cities that we will be in, in the next three to four years, and, but at the moment we already have a presence in all those cities through our membership CWH, which is basically, as it says on the tin, cities without houses. So within those 85 cities, we already have membership. We already have membership events. We have membership representation in all of those cities. And what happens in those cities is the member then finds that your, your CWH member then finds you the perfect house. They then hook you up with the local developer. They hook you up with all the things that you need to make that house work. So, and also we can tell by CWH how, how popular or how, what need there is for a house in that city by how many CWH members there are.

AI assessment note: “we can tell by CWH how... what need there is for a house in that city”

Q I think the kind of biggest commonality I've interviewed some of the biggest founders in the world in their success is persistence. It's when it doesn't work, continuously showing up and putting in the work. My question to you is when it wasn't working, what did you tell yourself in your head that was keeping you showing up, keeping you believing that it one day would work?

A Well, persistence is, I am persistent, which is quite an annoying, I think, feature of my personality, but I, I, I, I knew that people wanted to eat and drink and have a good time, so I just knew that what I was doing at that precise moment wasn't, wasn't, wasn't what, exactly what they wanted, so I kept having to work at what people wanted, and when we opened Café Bohème, or I opened Café Bohème in 1992, I sort of did everything in exact reverse to what Over the Top was, you know, the, The, the atmosphere, the decor, the food, the, the service. I, I completely, um, swapped it around and changed it around, and thankfully Café Bohème, which is still thriving in Old Compton Street today, 30 years on, is, is, is worked.

AI assessment note: “I knew that people wanted to eat and drink and have a good time”

Q I'm an investor, obviously, too. You know, we manage about half a billion dollars now. Um, I can't really count. I hate spreadsheets. Um, and it makes me desperately insecure because I'm an investor who can't count. Did you have insecurities given the dyslexia and given that, but also needing to be a business leader and a CEO with, you know, big financing rounds and everything that comes with it?

A Yes. Um, you know, I, I, I learn every day. You know, I keep learning. I think that's one of the exciting things of running a company. I think if I sat here and said, well, I know everything and I'm going to do it that way, I'm constantly learning. Um, and I, I, I really find it fascinating to learn, and I'm, I'm, I'm, I sort of do understand the figures, but it took me time to understand them, and it took me time to get, when I go back to over the top, you know, I had to do the accounts myself, so, you know, it's from a very early stage. In our business, I had to do every bit of it, so you learn every single aspect to it, but as we got bigger now, I'm, I'm blessed by the fact that we have a, Fantastic leadership team who are incredibly talented and a lot more able than I am in all these areas.

AI assessment note: “Yes. Um, you know, I, I, I learn every day.”

Q to this one. So I want to start, um, with a little bit of an interesting one, which is, you know, how did you make the decision to go into catering? I read that you said it was a shit job at the time when you went in, delicately put. So how and why did you make that decision? And then also, what was that first big break for you?

A Okay. Well, the reason why I went into catering is twofold. A, um, my options were small because my exam results were non-existent and I was very dyslexic. So all those jobs in the city or in the media were way beyond my, um, qualifications allowed me. So, but also catering. This, you're, you're thinking 45 years ago here, Harry. I know you're, I'm, I'm 58 now. And, uh, It was a time where, certainly in the UK, I felt that there was a huge opportunity, um, in, in, in people being able to eat, drink, and sleep in a slightly different way than what they were able to do at that precise time. And I also always enjoyed You know, when my parents had people round, I loved seeing a room of people full of people having a really good time. So, you know, there was sort of three reasons why I did it.

AI assessment note: “the reason why I went into catering is twofold”

Q I'm an investor, obviously, too. You know, we manage about half a billion dollars now. Um, I can't really count. I hate spreadsheets. Um, and it makes me desperately insecure because I'm an investor who can't count. Did you have insecurities given the dyslexia and given that, but also needing to be a business leader and a CEO with, you know, big financing rounds and everything that comes with it?

A Yes. Um, you know, I, I, I learn every day. You know, I keep learning. I think that's one of the exciting things of running a company. I think if I sat here and said, well, I know everything and I'm going to do it that way, I'm constantly learning. Um, and I, I, I really find it fascinating to learn, and I'm, I'm, I'm, I sort of do understand the figures, but it took me time to understand them, and it took me time to get, when I go back to over the top, you know, I had to do the accounts myself, so, you know, it's from a very early stage. In our business, I had to do every bit of it, so you learn every single aspect to it, but as we got bigger now, I'm, I'm blessed by the fact that we have a, Fantastic leadership team who are incredibly talented and a lot more able than I am in all these areas.

AI assessment note: “Yes. Um, you know, I, I, I learn every day.”

Q kind of touch on some points that you think you've nailed it on. I, for me, the most striking really is also brand. Uh, again, the brands that you've built are iconic. How do you think about brand today, and what does brand really mean to you? Because it's thrown around as a word a lot, but few people, I think, actually understand it. What does brand mean to you?

A I don't really like the word brand. I, I, I, I like to think that it's what we're doing at Sewer House and, and ultimately the MCG is just a way of living, really. It's, it's, you know, it's just, you know, we tapped into a situation that people like living in that certain sort of way, and I, I think when you look at it, there's a lot of people who want to live in that certain sort of way, and it doesn't matter if it's in the UK or North America, and as we're finding as we grow globally, that way of living is very, you know, appealing in Rome or Paris, and so I know people call it a brand, and I know Um, so a house, they called it as a brand, but I, I feel it is, it really is a home away from home, and we care deeply, and we care deeply about our member.

AI assessment note: “I don't really like the word brand. I like to think that it's”

Q I, I do want to ask, you mentioned that kind of turning it around, doing different things, and, and being kind of Very different in your approach. When we look at, kind of, Café Bohème in 1992 to what consumers expect today, how has consumer demands of restaurants of experience most changed in your mind when you compare that 92 to today?

A Well, that's a good question there, because I think in 92 when I opened Café Bohème, it was one of the first places in London which opened at eight o'clock in the morning and closed at three a.m. in the, in the following morning, and basically people could come in there and choose what they wanted to do, so it was very chameleon in its, in its, its feel and style, so we didn't mind, I didn't mind people just coming in for a cup of coffee or a jug of beer or coming to listen to the jazz in the afternoon, It, it didn't matter. It, I wasn't obsessed about everyone having to have a knife and fork meal. It was about the atmosphere. It's about letting people choose, and also having a kitchen, which back 30 years ago is quite a rare thing, which was open all the time. So people could go in at four o'clock in the afternoon and have a steak fruit, or they could have something at midnight, or two a.m. in the morning, or they could have breakfast in the morning. So it was And now, thankfully, there's lots of places like that.

AI assessment note: “back 30 years ago is quite a rare thing... And now, thankfully, there's lots”

Q kind of touch on some points that you think you've nailed it on. I, for me, the most striking really is also brand. Uh, again, the brands that you've built are iconic. How do you think about brand today, and what does brand really mean to you? Because it's thrown around as a word a lot, but few people, I think, actually understand it. What does brand mean to you?

A I don't really like the word brand. I, I, I, I like to think that it's what we're doing at Sewer House and, and ultimately the MCG is just a way of living, really. It's, it's, you know, it's just, you know, we tapped into a situation that people like living in that certain sort of way, and I, I think when you look at it, there's a lot of people who want to live in that certain sort of way, and it doesn't matter if it's in the UK or North America, and as we're finding as we grow globally, that way of living is very, you know, appealing in Rome or Paris, and so I know people call it a brand, and I know Um, so a house, they called it as a brand, but I, I feel it is, it really is a home away from home, and we care deeply, and we care deeply about our member.

AI assessment note: “I like to think that it's... just a way of living, really.”

Q You mentioned leadership teams there. How would you describe your style of leadership? And I guess, how has it changed over the years? Go back to 92, you know, Café Bohème, and then today, twenty-twenty-two. How do you describe it today, and how has it changed?

A I think my leadership style is constantly evolving. Um, you know, I think Probably back in 1992, you know, I was, I was very different from now. And, you know, I've, I've, I've, I've learned hard to work, how to get, how to, how to be the most influential I can be in my, in, in the position, you know, of a company. And so it keeps evolving. Um, Yeah, I am very challenging, you know, I'm demanding. Um, you know, I, I, I don't want to say I'm, you know, I'm, I'm, I'm Mr. Nice guy all the time. Cause you know, you, you, you, you, you, you, you can't be when you're, you, you, when you're, when, when you're, you're running a day to day business, which is running 24 hours a day, seven days a week globally. Um, but I've, I find now, I, I, I, you know, motivation and be motivational is the biggest, biggest help I have in running the company, but at the same time, I'm very challenging on people.

AI assessment note: “I am very challenging, you know, I'm demanding.”

Q I, I do want to ask, you mentioned that kind of turning it around, doing different things, and, and being kind of Very different in your approach. When we look at, kind of, Café Bohème in 1992 to what consumers expect today, how has consumer demands of restaurants of experience most changed in your mind when you compare that 92 to today?

A Well, that's a good question there, because I think in 92 when I opened Café Bohème, it was one of the first places in London which opened at eight o'clock in the morning and closed at three a.m. in the, in the following morning, and basically people could come in there and choose what they wanted to do, so it was very chameleon in its, in its, its feel and style, so we didn't mind, I didn't mind people just coming in for a cup of coffee or a jug of beer or coming to listen to the jazz in the afternoon, It, it didn't matter. It, I wasn't obsessed about everyone having to have a knife and fork meal. It was about the atmosphere. It's about letting people choose, and also having a kitchen, which back 30 years ago is quite a rare thing, which was open all the time. So people could go in at four o'clock in the afternoon and have a steak fruit, or they could have something at midnight, or two a.m. in the morning, or they could have breakfast in the morning. So it was And now, thankfully, there's lots of places like that.

AI assessment note: “And now, thankfully, there's lots of places like that.”

Q You mentioned leadership teams there. How would you describe your style of leadership? And I guess, how has it changed over the years? Go back to 92, you know, Café Bohème, and then today, twenty-twenty-two. How do you describe it today, and how has it changed?

A I think my leadership style is constantly evolving. Um, you know, I think Probably back in 1992, you know, I was, I was very different from now. And, you know, I've, I've, I've, I've learned hard to work, how to get, how to, how to be the most influential I can be in my, in, in the position, you know, of a company. And so it keeps evolving. Um, Yeah, I am very challenging, you know, I'm demanding. Um, you know, I, I, I don't want to say I'm, you know, I'm, I'm, I'm Mr. Nice guy all the time. Cause you know, you, you, you, you, you, you, you can't be when you're, you, you, when you're, when, when you're, you're running a day to day business, which is running 24 hours a day, seven days a week globally. Um, but I've, I find now, I, I, I, you know, motivation and be motivational is the biggest, biggest help I have in running the company, but at the same time, I'm very challenging on people.

AI assessment note: “I am very challenging, you know, I'm demanding.”

Q you have kids, you know, I work fucking hard. Like, you, you cannot have children and be a great father without losing an inch on performance. That terrifies me, um, and my Italian girlfriend. So, my question to you is, like, how do you retain that brilliant executor without losing an inch on performance? But also be present as a husband and a father. Or actually is it an acceptance?

A I think, you know, balance is always a tricky thing, especially when you are, you know, workaholic, entrepreneur, you know, you, you, it is a, you know, just getting a balance. I think acknowledging being a workaholic, and I think, you know, people, I think, and I think this is really important for people, is that people often sort of, um, sort of, Praise people who work incredibly hard, but actually what we should be doing is saying, well, surely you should be getting a bit more balance in your life, because that's a lot more healthy, and, and I think, you know, what you've got to learn, Harry, I think is a balance, and you've got to be able to learn a time to slow down and, and, and enjoy family, because, you know, that to me is, is, is, is much more important.

AI assessment note: “you've got to be able to learn a time to slow down and enjoy family”

Q Listen, I, I totally agree with you in terms of the honesty there. You said about the challenging nature that, you know, you have with the team and you like to push. Are you challenging on yourself? Do you ever give yourself a break, Nick? I know you love it. I love what I do, but I put myself under a fuckload of pressure. I'm sure you do too.

A Yeah, I, I, I, I, Often don't get it right, Harry. I often, you know, make, make mistakes, and I think the one thing I've, I've learned is that when you do make a mistake is put your hand up, admit it, admit it to the team, You know, don't try and think you're always getting it right, and, and I think people really respect that, and they, they go, you know, he's, you know, he's human, and he's admitting that he's wrong, because, um, I am often wrong, and I make decisions which are not always right, and I think the key is, and you make a bad decision, is put your hand up, say, look, I'm sorry, I made a bad decision, and let's change track now, rather than being, I'm so, I made that decision, I don't want to Prove to, I want to prove to everyone it's the right decision when clearly it's the wrong decision. So, you know, it's a, it's a something I'm always learning.

AI assessment note: “when you do make a mistake is put your hand up, admit it”

Q Listen, I, I totally agree with you in terms of the honesty there. You said about the challenging nature that, you know, you have with the team and you like to push. Are you challenging on yourself? Do you ever give yourself a break, Nick? I know you love it. I love what I do, but I put myself under a fuckload of pressure. I'm sure you do too.

A Yeah, I, I, I, I, Often don't get it right, Harry. I often, you know, make, make mistakes, and I think the one thing I've, I've learned is that when you do make a mistake is put your hand up, admit it, admit it to the team, You know, don't try and think you're always getting it right, and, and I think people really respect that, and they, they go, you know, he's, you know, he's human, and he's admitting that he's wrong, because, um, I am often wrong, and I make decisions which are not always right, and I think the key is, and you make a bad decision, is put your hand up, say, look, I'm sorry, I made a bad decision, and let's change track now, rather than being, I'm so, I made that decision, I don't want to Prove to, I want to prove to everyone it's the right decision when clearly it's the wrong decision. So, you know, it's a, it's a something I'm always learning.

AI assessment note: “when you do make a mistake is put your hand up, admit it”