The Exchanges

Q Totally agree with you there. Can I ask you, we said about kind of keeping that pure mindset. Partnerships can help in terms of preventing mistakes on, oh, I've done it before and it's lost money, which is a very dangerous heuristic, obviously. When you think about decision making internally, How does decision making look on net new deals, and how does that differ on size of check?

A We have a, a different size of quorum depending on the size of the check, so who needs to be there. They're always folks from each office, so it's very important, you know, because we work as, as one team across offices, and then we, we vote. We vote, uh, one to 10. You can't vote, uh, five and six, so you have to be, you know, four against, and then it's kind of a, so it's a qualified majority, essentially, so if, if the average is above six, you know, the, the deal is, the deal is approved, um, and so that, that mechanism, you know, is the same, and then, There's also, uh, some latitude if you, if you have, you know, very high conviction on the deal, um, at the early stage. I think we have a bias for, you know, to action. And again, going back to having a beginner's mindset, the person who spend a lot more time with a certain team is obviously a better place to make a judgment call on that team. And so there is, you know, this kind of a collective trust into the partner's judgment.

AI assessment note: “We have a, a different size of quorum depending on the size of the check”

Q Totally agree with you there. Can I ask you, we said about kind of keeping that pure mindset. Partnerships can help in terms of preventing mistakes on, oh, I've done it before and it's lost money, which is a very dangerous heuristic, obviously. When you think about decision making internally, How does decision making look on net new deals, and how does that differ on size of check?

A We have a, a different size of quorum depending on the size of the check, so who needs to be there. They're always folks from each office, so it's very important, you know, because we work as, as one team across offices, and then we, we vote. We vote, uh, one to 10. You can't vote, uh, five and six, so you have to be, you know, four against, and then it's kind of a, so it's a qualified majority, essentially, so if, if the average is above six, you know, the, the deal is, the deal is approved, um, and so that, that mechanism, you know, is the same, and then, There's also, uh, some latitude if you, if you have, you know, very high conviction on the deal, um, at the early stage. I think we have a bias for, you know, to action. And again, going back to having a beginner's mindset, the person who spend a lot more time with a certain team is obviously a better place to make a judgment call on that team. And so there is, you know, this kind of a collective trust into the partner's judgment.

AI assessment note: “We have a, a different size of quorum depending on the size of the check”

Q What was the most controversial deal that got through?

A Um, I'd say, you know, Revolut was pretty controversial, actually, of all the deals. Uh, yeah, it's, it's funny, it's, it's, it sounds, you know, in retrospect, it sounds bizarre, but it, you know, it, it meant that being one of the most successful, or maybe the most successful, but it was definitely one of the most controversial. The reason for that was that it was quite a fewfold. The first one is, um, it was a very European product, you know, and I think the product made a lot of sense for the European audience. It didn't make as much sense in the US context, where FX, frankly, is not a big topic, so I think that was one element where, you know, I think US-based folks were, you know, less familiar with the product, and, you know, it didn't resonate as well. The other issue we had is it was, uh, especially in the early stages, it was, uh, kind of, You know, negative gross margin business. I mean, they were basically giving away effects that weren't charging for anything else. You had a little bit of interchange, but not that much. And so you had a very low gross margin business, and obviously that wasn't that attractive, you know, and the more they scale, and they scale very fast, all organic and word of mouth, the more, you know, they were burning capital. So, so it wasn't an obvious one. And I think I thought, you know, Nick at the time wasn't a natural, um, you know, kind …

AI assessment note: “Revolut was pretty controversial, actually, of all the deals.”

Q And does the exit funnel come into your mindset when investing? I mean, do you, do you worry that there's not enough big acquisitions in Europe happening for the billion dollar plus companies?

A We've had, we've had, you know, we've had a lot, right? Between, you know, if you think about, you know, Just Eat, Skype, Criteo, Zendesk, King, you know, all of the ones that are coming in the Spotify, Van Privé, Showroom Privé, the Zalendo. I mean, you can, you know, now it's in the, you know, you can count them on, on, on, you know, you need, you know, three or four hands, or if not more, I had to count them all, you know, and I'm, I'm talking kind of billion plus exits. So, so, I don't think that's, uh, I don't think that's, uh, that's a big, that's a big, uh, big issue. I think, yes, there are two, two, two, two areas where we are a bit, a bit weaker. I think the first one is that there are very few, uh, European acquirers. So, Uh, you know, a lot of these potential acquirers are all, you know, based, based on the West Coast, pretty much. Um, if you're a pure tech company, and I think there's, you know, not that many companies here in Europe really looking at acquiring startups. I think that's, that's a, that's a shame, especially in that kind of 5202 hundred million range, which, which is not where you, you make massive returns, but that's where you, um, kind of keep on, can reinvest the proceeds in the ecosystem and, and make some early, you know, entrepreneurs rich so that they can, Reinvest and launch, you know, potentially even bigger companies. And so we, we, we kind…

AI assessment note: “I'm talking kind of billion plus exits. So, so, I don't think that's a big issue.”

Q When you think about ownership, how do you think about ownership internally? Is it kind of the age old, 15% has times changed around ownership percentages?

A I mean, the time has changed for sure. You know, I started 15 years ago, and, uh, we were, you know, all aiming for 20% was kind of the minimum bar. Uh, this is, you know, you can still, we still have some 20% ownership, but it is obviously getting, getting a lot harder. Um, I think if you can get, For us, the goal is to get double digit ownership at exit. That is the, you know, that is typically where we, if we look at the performance of the fund, most of our returns have been generated by companies where we own close to or more than double digit ownership at exit. Um, and so I think that that should be the, that's what we're trying to aim for.

AI assessment note: “the time has changed for sure. You know, I started 15 years ago”

Q Okay, so when we think about, like, bluntly, new deals, yeah, there's two types of founders. There's ones that come to an industry fresh, and with the joys of naivety and open eyes, and then there's ones that come to it as an industry insider. How do you think about which founder type you prefer and lessons from them?

A I don't prefer any of those types. The way I think about it is slightly different. You know, the, What I love in founders is unique insights, and that unique insight can come, so the unique insight can come from two places. It's one experience and knowledge of an industry. The other one is just sheer intelligence and, and ability to break down complex problems into very simple ones. And, you know, if you think about, ah, all the best founders that I, you know, I've worked with and, ah, you know, you have worked with, I think that they tend to have This one similarity, which is they can come up with a very simple insight, something that sounds very simple, but actually incredibly deep and profound and defensible. And they typically come at it, um, from first principle thinking. I mean, I think first principle thinking gets thrown out a lot, but the very best founders, they have that. And so if you take, you know, Nick at Revolut, you know, as an example of that, a lot of his decisions and a lot of his core insights were just linked to that First principle thinking. So you thought about, okay, FX, for example. FX, For a large corridor where you have a lot of volume of, of transfer costs nothing. So it should be given, you know, given for free, you know, to the market. And then once you have that, that's a really good hook, and then you can build something else. And so, and if you…

AI assessment note: “I don't prefer any of those types. The way I think about it is slightly different.”

Q What was the most controversial deal that got through?

A Um, I'd say, you know, Revolut was pretty controversial, actually, of all the deals. Uh, yeah, it's, it's funny, it's, it's, it sounds, you know, in retrospect, it sounds bizarre, but it, you know, it, it meant that being one of the most successful, or maybe the most successful, but it was definitely one of the most controversial. The reason for that was that it was quite a fewfold. The first one is, um, it was a very European product, you know, and I think the product made a lot of sense for the European audience. It didn't make as much sense in the US context, where FX, frankly, is not a big topic, so I think that was one element where, you know, I think US-based folks were, you know, less familiar with the product, and, you know, it didn't resonate as well. The other issue we had is it was, uh, especially in the early stages, it was, uh, kind of, You know, negative gross margin business. I mean, they were basically giving away effects that weren't charging for anything else. You had a little bit of interchange, but not that much. And so you had a very low gross margin business, and obviously that wasn't that attractive, you know, and the more they scale, and they scale very fast, all organic and word of mouth, the more, you know, they were burning capital. So, so it wasn't an obvious one. And I think I thought, you know, Nick at the time wasn't a natural, um, you know, kind …

AI assessment note: “Revolut was pretty controversial, actually, of all the deals.”

Q Given revenue scalings being so unparalleled today for so many companies, does revenue mean less? Does traction mean less? Given zero to Ten million there are kind of commoditized now as awful and try to start sounds. Does it mean less?

A I don't think it means less. Um, I, you know, as you know, finding product market fit is the hardest thing in any business and tons of funders walk around in the desert for years without ever finding it. So I think we shouldn't minimize or trivialize, you know, finding real traction and having real revenue traction. I think this is remarkable and it should be celebrated. Obviously, If you are talking about AI, auditing the quality of that revenue is critical. Um, and so that's what people, you know, that's what we spend a lot of our time doing is, you know, is that, is that revenue long lasting? Is it sticky? And, and sometimes, obviously, if you have, the more cohorts you have, the more you can see the numbers. If you don't have that, then it's going to be, you know, talking to customers, and also really trying to understand their use case. If it's, it's something that's more like project-based, and then they want to use it once, and then, you know, they will switch to something else, potentially. Or is something that, especially if it's inserted inside their workflow, you know, Cursor is a good example, you know, we've made a bunch of those type of investments, then in all likelihood, even if the numbers didn't show it yet, in all likelihood, the stickiness of that product is going to be a lot higher.

AI assessment note: “I don't think it means less.”

Q Do you have more elasticity on ownership because you're able to do multi-stage investing?

A Yeah, in the earlier stage, for sure. I mean, I think for us, especially at seed stage, you know, our approach to seed is, is much more collaborative. You know, the idea is we don't want to compete with, with people like you and, and, and, you know, and other, other seed funds and, and angels, you know, we want to bring them along, we want to work together, and, you know, we, it's conviction investing, and we're gonna, uh, you know, pull our weight and be super involved, but this is not the stage where we want to maximize ownership, and, you know, so we're not gonna have, Uh, you know, um, sharp elbows at that, at that stage. Later on, you know, especially at, you know, at Series N and B's, that's where we really wanna, you know, because of the time we're gonna spend helping these companies and, and, uh, you know, spend time on the board and be, you know, hopefully the reference investor. That's where, you know, we need a minimum ownership.

AI assessment note: “Yeah, in the earlier stage, for sure.”

Q Okay, got it. Do you think about dilution sensitivity down the road? You know, we mentioned delivery, that's kind of V-one of dilution sensitivity if you want, and LLM's is, I guess, the latest version. Well, like, there's a fundamental question of like, is it actually a good venture product? Because the dilutive nature of the business is so high.

A Well, we'll, we'll see at the end of the, we'll see at the end of the journey. I think it's, um, as a, the pure venture multiple will likely be lower than some of the other categories in the past. I think that is, that is clear. The difference is that the size of the outcome and the speed of Very importantly, the speed at which the size is gonna get reached means that you can have, especially if you can deploy a lot of capital, you will still be able to generate a lot of absolute returns. So, I mean, I think this, in terms of performance, will still be very high. In terms of pure multiple on early-stage investments, it may be, maybe slightly lower because of dilution.

AI assessment note: “In terms of pure multiple on early-stage investments, it may be, maybe slightly lower”

Q Do you think TikTok should be allowed though, for example?

A I think it should be loud, but there should be a bigger conversation about social networks and about the openness of algorithms, which don't only apply to, to TikTok, but, you know, applies to X, applies to Facebook. I think those algorithms should be, um, should be public, should be able to be audited by, you know, by anyone, um, but also include independent, uh, uh, auditors. I think that's, you know, they have, they are not regular companies. I think they, they are utilities. They are critical infrastructure for the economy and for political systems. And as such, I think they require a level of, of a treatment that is different from, you know, any, a random, uh, random startup.

AI assessment note: “I think it should be loud, but there should be a bigger conversation about social”

Q the US, and that being the new normal, um, you, you, You know, I think very rightly, uh, said the same, um, and then I got all the blowback, and you avoided it all. Um, my question to you is, why do you think that we are in a new world of work intensity, and that a new caliber of work is required to build a ten billion dollar business?

A Again, I, I'm not sure it's changed so much. If you look at, uh, the most incredible companies in the past, you know, you look at Revolut, you look at Deliveroo, all of these companies, the amount of work that these founders and these early teams put in was, was tremendous. I mean, it was seven days a week, you know, it was nights and weekends. I mean, that's what it was. And, um, and so, so I think that's what it takes. When you're going into, uh, Those, those hyper growth mode, and you have, you know, and you go for the venture-backed route, that is, you know, that is part of the journey. That is kind of, you know, in many ways what you're saying for. You need to have two things. One is you need to make a lot of experimentation, the iteration, and so that typically means, you know, the longer you work, the more things you can try, and then you need to have a very high kind of growth curve and be able to learn very quickly from those experimentations. I think the main change to me is how open people are. And I think it's good because then there is no mismatch of expectation. You know, you're not joining a company and they realize, shit, you know, they're working so hard that this is, I can't do it. This is not for me. That at least there's, there's real alignment between, you know, what you're saying and what you're doing. And I think that's, that's actually positive.

AI assessment note: “the longer you work, the more things you can try”

Q Doug Leone said on the show that we've moved from a, A high margin boutique community to a low margin commoditized industry. Do you agree with that statement?

A Not entirely. No. Um, I, I know there is a, there is a, a, a meme which is the industry is gonna, is diverging into two camps. You either have the, the mega funds, the asset gatherers, or you have the tiny boutique shops. And, and I don't truly believe in that. I think there is a, there is a third way and, you know, index is in that third way where you need enough scale to help support the founders. And we think always from the founders point of view, what is, how can we best serve them? And you need, I think, a minimum size to really help them to kind of invest across stages, support them from inception to, to IPO. You need a minimum size, but I also don't think you, you need a giga size to really support them. I think this push towards larger asset gathering is very, is very good for, for, for VCs who do it. You know, it can make a lot of sense financially. It can make a lot of sense for them. I'm not sure it makes so much sense for the entrepreneurs themselves. So I do believe there is, um, there's a third way.

AI assessment note: “Not entirely. No. Um, I, I know there is a, there is a, a, a meme”

Q When you think about ownership, how do you think about ownership internally? Is it kind of the age old, 15% has times changed around ownership percentages?

A I mean, the time has changed for sure. You know, I started 15 years ago, and, uh, we were, you know, all aiming for 20% was kind of the minimum bar. Uh, this is, you know, you can still, we still have some 20% ownership, but it is obviously getting, getting a lot harder. Um, I think if you can get, For us, the goal is to get double digit ownership at exit. That is the, you know, that is typically where we, if we look at the performance of the fund, most of our returns have been generated by companies where we own close to or more than double digit ownership at exit. Um, and so I think that that should be the, that's what we're trying to aim for.

AI assessment note: “For us, the goal is to get double digit ownership at exit.”

Q Do you buy the Midas list? Again, you're like, Jesus, Harry, I, I, I, you're, I thought this was an easy interview, but like, I look at the Midas list, and none of the people on that did the deals that they said they did. I'm like, guys, come on.

A Two things. One is, I, I didn't investigate, I think, as much as, as you did, but my view on the Midas list is, it's a really good list for who was a great investor 10 years ago, and so that, that's kind of how I would, how I would describe it, because if you look at a lot of these companies, there were deals that were made, you know, 10 years ago, uh, and so I think it's really accurate to show you, you know, who made great investment 10 years ago. Is it very accurate to see who is a great investor today or in the future? You know, again, I think there is some persistence of returns, and there's a lot of studies that have shown that, but it's not, definitely there are a lot of great investors today who are not yet on the list, but will be in the future that, you know, should be on it.

AI assessment note: “it's a really good list for who was a great investor 10 years ago”

Q Okay, so when we think about, like, bluntly, new deals, yeah, there's two types of founders. There's ones that come to an industry fresh, and with the joys of naivety and open eyes, and then there's ones that come to it as an industry insider. How do you think about which founder type you prefer and lessons from them?

A I don't prefer any of those types. The way I think about it is slightly different. You know, the, What I love in founders is unique insights, and that unique insight can come, so the unique insight can come from two places. It's one experience and knowledge of an industry. The other one is just sheer intelligence and, and ability to break down complex problems into very simple ones. And, you know, if you think about, ah, all the best founders that I, you know, I've worked with and, ah, you know, you have worked with, I think that they tend to have This one similarity, which is they can come up with a very simple insight, something that sounds very simple, but actually incredibly deep and profound and defensible. And they typically come at it, um, from first principle thinking. I mean, I think first principle thinking gets thrown out a lot, but the very best founders, they have that. And so if you take, you know, Nick at Revolut, you know, as an example of that, a lot of his decisions and a lot of his core insights were just linked to that First principle thinking. So you thought about, okay, FX, for example. FX, For a large corridor where you have a lot of volume of, of transfer costs nothing. So it should be given, you know, given for free, you know, to the market. And then once you have that, that's a really good hook, and then you can build something else. And so, and if you…

AI assessment note: “I don't prefer any of those types. The way I think about it is slightly different.”

Q Given revenue scalings being so unparalleled today for so many companies, does revenue mean less? Does traction mean less? Given zero to Ten million there are kind of commoditized now as awful and try to start sounds. Does it mean less?

A I don't think it means less. Um, I, you know, as you know, finding product market fit is the hardest thing in any business and tons of funders walk around in the desert for years without ever finding it. So I think we shouldn't minimize or trivialize, you know, finding real traction and having real revenue traction. I think this is remarkable and it should be celebrated. Obviously, If you are talking about AI, auditing the quality of that revenue is critical. Um, and so that's what people, you know, that's what we spend a lot of our time doing is, you know, is that, is that revenue long lasting? Is it sticky? And, and sometimes, obviously, if you have, the more cohorts you have, the more you can see the numbers. If you don't have that, then it's going to be, you know, talking to customers, and also really trying to understand their use case. If it's, it's something that's more like project-based, and then they want to use it once, and then, you know, they will switch to something else, potentially. Or is something that, especially if it's inserted inside their workflow, you know, Cursor is a good example, you know, we've made a bunch of those type of investments, then in all likelihood, even if the numbers didn't show it yet, in all likelihood, the stickiness of that product is going to be a lot higher.

AI assessment note: “I don't think it means less.”

Q that nicely, not badly, but respectfully to your fellow countrymen, French people, you know, I'll meet them and I'm like, you know, they're like, yeah, we're doing fifty million in ARR. And I'm like, wow, that's amazing. Yeah, it's okay. And I'm like, if this was American, it'd be great. And so my question is, is there a culture chasm that doesn't carry with European founders to your American partners?

A Yes. I think the answer, the answer is yes, by and large. So we know, you know, we'll, you know, if there's one team that is aware of those differences, it, I would say it's, it's index. And so, um, we are very well aware of it and we take it into account when, when we vote on deals. And that's also why we leave a lot of latitude, especially in the, when you have data and it's different because you know, data can, can speak, you know, can, can speak for itself. But I think when, uh, at the earlier stage, To your point, the presentation matters a lot more, and that's where leaving more latitude to the partner or the investor who is closer to the founder and spend more time with them, you know, is super important because, yeah, I mean, we've had that in the past, for sure.

AI assessment note: “Yes. I think the answer, the answer is yes, by and large.”

Q Do you have more elasticity on ownership because you're able to do multi-stage investing?

A Yeah, in the earlier stage, for sure. I mean, I think for us, especially at seed stage, you know, our approach to seed is, is much more collaborative. You know, the idea is we don't want to compete with, with people like you and, and, and, you know, and other, other seed funds and, and angels, you know, we want to bring them along, we want to work together, and, you know, we, it's conviction investing, and we're gonna, uh, you know, pull our weight and be super involved, but this is not the stage where we want to maximize ownership, and, you know, so we're not gonna have, Uh, you know, um, sharp elbows at that, at that stage. Later on, you know, especially at, you know, at Series N and B's, that's where we really wanna, you know, because of the time we're gonna spend helping these companies and, and, uh, you know, spend time on the board and be, you know, hopefully the reference investor. That's where, you know, we need a minimum ownership.

AI assessment note: “Yeah, in the earlier stage, for sure.”

Q Series A is the worst place to be investing today. Obviously we do Series A. Not promoting ourselves. It's a very truthful exposure. It's like, hey, the price inflection point is so high, often three to five X, and the company progression is often less than two X. It's a tough space to play. How do you feel about series A being a bad space to be in right now?

A We don't really think about it that way. You know, I think in the early stage, whether, you know, and first of all, the label on stage is, you know, is as good as, as, as you want to make it. You know, you know, is it C, is it Series A, is it Pre-Seeds? There is, I think there is kind of, there's a pre-product market fit business, there is a post-product market fit business, and then there is a scale business. And I think, so you have, you know, you have those kind of three, for me, there are kind of three stages. And we have, you know, our funds are seed venture and growth that can represent those three stages, but, you know, they're not really, really a label. And then for us at the early stage, we don't, you know, the goal, again, the goal for us is to be double digit owner, reference shareholder as early as possible. And so we don't try to think, okay, is it now a good time? Is it now a bad time? Great companies are created at any time, you know, in, in the cycle. And so if you can get in early enough and have enough ownership, We don't overthink, oh, is it Series A, is it Series C, how much do we own? But again, I think having, you know, being a multistage fund helps with that, with that flexibility.

AI assessment note: “We don't really think about it that way.”

Q Okay, got it. Do you think about dilution sensitivity down the road? You know, we mentioned delivery, that's kind of V-one of dilution sensitivity if you want, and LLM's is, I guess, the latest version. Well, like, there's a fundamental question of like, is it actually a good venture product? Because the dilutive nature of the business is so high.

A Well, we'll, we'll see at the end of the, we'll see at the end of the journey. I think it's, um, as a, the pure venture multiple will likely be lower than some of the other categories in the past. I think that is, that is clear. The difference is that the size of the outcome and the speed of Very importantly, the speed at which the size is gonna get reached means that you can have, especially if you can deploy a lot of capital, you will still be able to generate a lot of absolute returns. So, I mean, I think this, in terms of performance, will still be very high. In terms of pure multiple on early-stage investments, it may be, maybe slightly lower because of dilution.

AI assessment note: “In terms of pure multiple on early-stage investments, it may be, maybe slightly lower because of dilution.”

Q Do you think TikTok should be allowed though, for example?

A I think it should be loud, but there should be a bigger conversation about social networks and about the openness of algorithms, which don't only apply to, to TikTok, but, you know, applies to X, applies to Facebook. I think those algorithms should be, um, should be public, should be able to be audited by, you know, by anyone, um, but also include independent, uh, uh, auditors. I think that's, you know, they have, they are not regular companies. I think they, they are utilities. They are critical infrastructure for the economy and for political systems. And as such, I think they require a level of, of a treatment that is different from, you know, any, a random, uh, random startup.

AI assessment note: “I think it should be loud, but there should be a bigger conversation”

Q the US, and that being the new normal, um, you, you, You know, I think very rightly, uh, said the same, um, and then I got all the blowback, and you avoided it all. Um, my question to you is, why do you think that we are in a new world of work intensity, and that a new caliber of work is required to build a ten billion dollar business?

A Again, I, I'm not sure it's changed so much. If you look at, uh, the most incredible companies in the past, you know, you look at Revolut, you look at Deliveroo, all of these companies, the amount of work that these founders and these early teams put in was, was tremendous. I mean, it was seven days a week, you know, it was nights and weekends. I mean, that's what it was. And, um, and so, so I think that's what it takes. When you're going into, uh, Those, those hyper growth mode, and you have, you know, and you go for the venture-backed route, that is, you know, that is part of the journey. That is kind of, you know, in many ways what you're saying for. You need to have two things. One is you need to make a lot of experimentation, the iteration, and so that typically means, you know, the longer you work, the more things you can try, and then you need to have a very high kind of growth curve and be able to learn very quickly from those experimentations. I think the main change to me is how open people are. And I think it's good because then there is no mismatch of expectation. You know, you're not joining a company and they realize, shit, you know, they're working so hard that this is, I can't do it. This is not for me. That at least there's, there's real alignment between, you know, what you're saying and what you're doing. And I think that's, that's actually positive.

AI assessment note: “I'm not sure it's changed so much. If you look at... Deliveroo”

Q Do you worry for your companies about the concentration of talent? You know, we are in a war for talent, say, like we've never seen before, and the compensation package is truly like we've never, ever seen before. I speak to so many of my companies and like, fuck sake, we're competing against Meta and OpenAI, like, what do you expect? Do you worry about that for your companies?

A Yeah, for, for, for sure. I mean, you know, you, you, you, you have, you have to worry. I mean, having said that, a big part of the compensation for these early stage companies is around options, uh, and is around ESOP. And I think that's where, you know, that's the only way for startups to really compete with these large established players, whether it's OpenAI or whether it's, you know, even Google and Microsoft and, and, and the, you know, the established, uh, publicly listed large tech companies. So I think with that, You know, if you can tell a good enough story about this future value creation, there is no amount of package that can compete with that.

AI assessment note: “Yeah, for, for, for sure. I mean, you know, you, you, you, you have, you have to worry.”

Q What do you think makes him so special? I've interviewed him several times, known him for years, not nearly as well as you have done, so I know mine. Why do you think he is?

A It's, you know, I will say it again, it's the first principle of thinking. It's the fact that he, he never takes anything for granted. Like, he never, he never listened to conventional wisdom. If you tell him, oh, that's how it's done, he will challenge that. Why? You know, and then he will think about it himself, really break it down into small pieces, solve that problem, and then he will come up with his own answer. He will use experts to kind of inform his, his thinking, but he will never just take things at face value, and the result of that is that he then comes up with very original ideas and original ways of, Of working. I mean, he does have some inspiration. I mean, you know, Ray Dalio is, is obviously one, and the way he runs Revolut is, has a lot of similarity with, with Bridgewater, but I think that's, that's what's made him so special, and then you add that to, uh, an incredible, you know, intensity, and, and ability to maintain that intensity, uh, over time, over a very long period of time, in very difficult situations, I think that, that's what, you know, really, you know, sets him apart. And then the scale of the ambition. You know, I think that's something that a lot of founders, they want to win something small, and he doesn't. He, he never, there is nothing that is, that is too big or too complex. Like, you know, eventually he thinks, he's convinced there is, …

AI assessment note: “it's the first principle of thinking. It's the fact that he, he never takes anything for granted.”

Q And then the investor you most respect and admire?

A I mean, there are quite a few, but I think the one that, that, that's kind of been shaping my, and probably a lot of people's, uh, investment thesis is, is obviously Fred Wilson. First, because he's obviously extremely smart. I think he works really hard with his companies. And he's right, and he's been right on a lot of things, but also, obviously, because he's been so, so good at teaching and sharing his insights, communicating and building his brand, both his personal brand and USV's brand, um, and being very low, you know, being very faithful to one thesis and going all the way through it, uh, and, and being right on it, you know, I think it's, uh, it's amazing in terms of consistency and quality of thinking, so it's very impressive.

AI assessment note: “is obviously Fred Wilson. First, because he's obviously extremely smart.”

Q And that experience, what would you say was the most kind of, um, Transformative in turning you into the VC you are today. Was it the experience setting up the e-commerce store? Was it the banking experience? Was it university itself?

A And all of these things are valid, you know, and I think it's, it's, it's good to know what kind of stuff entrepreneurs have to do, like practically, uh, in terms of the legal, the accounting, you know, just the complexity of setting, setting it all up, uh, and all of the behind the scenes work that needs to happen. And, And building the team and motivating people or, you know, to join you on a mission. So all of that was obviously, you know, super, super interesting and valuable. Obviously a lot of these skills, you know, they age over time because tools change and the situation change. So that's not as replicable. I think that the most important thing is really that you get to know and see the world, you know, through the eyes of an entrepreneur being on the other side of the table. And, and, and most importantly, I think really feeling the stress of, Um, and, and, and what taking risk really means, uh, you know, seeing your bank account, you know, going slowly down to zero, uh, for all of, all of those, those, you know, those, this hard, hard, hard earned money that, that you've been spending Uh, you know, spending a lot of hours at the bank before to, to save and then you see disappearing, you know, that that's, you know, it's a stressful, you know, it's a stressful situation.

AI assessment note: “the most important thing is really that you get to know and see the world”

Q Doug Leone said on the show that we've moved from a, A high margin boutique community to a low margin commoditized industry. Do you agree with that statement?

A Not entirely. No. Um, I, I know there is a, there is a, a, a meme which is the industry is gonna, is diverging into two camps. You either have the, the mega funds, the asset gatherers, or you have the tiny boutique shops. And, and I don't truly believe in that. I think there is a, there is a third way and, you know, index is in that third way where you need enough scale to help support the founders. And we think always from the founders point of view, what is, how can we best serve them? And you need, I think, a minimum size to really help them to kind of invest across stages, support them from inception to, to IPO. You need a minimum size, but I also don't think you, you need a giga size to really support them. I think this push towards larger asset gathering is very, is very good for, for, for VCs who do it. You know, it can make a lot of sense financially. It can make a lot of sense for them. I'm not sure it makes so much sense for the entrepreneurs themselves. So I do believe there is, um, there's a third way.

AI assessment note: “Not entirely. No.”

Q got the likes of Algolia and Deliveroo. Um, So I have to ask, with these rocket ship companies who have, you know, hundreds of term sheets on their, on their door, where do you sit on Cheryl Sambo's statement that it doesn't matter where you sit as long as you have a seat on the rocket ship? I mean, how important is valuation for you when determining whether to invest?

A I think we are pretty, you know, we are pretty neutral. You have to think about it this way. It's like your, your downside is always limited to the amount you're investing, uh, while your upside is unlimited by definition. So, so in all of these cases, uh, if you think, you know, you're truly in face of a, of a, of a rocket ship, um, and something that can be worth multiple billions, then, then, you know, very, you know, then very rapidly. It actually, you know, it's, it makes sense. It's a good risk reward to, to, to bet even at high valuation. You know, having said that, obviously in the short term, uh, nothing is, nothing has an infinite value. Uh, you know, even Facebook doesn't have infinite value. I mean, every, every company has a cap, has a cap price. So, so, you know, they can be too, you know, some things can be too expensive. Um, so, so you would have to kind of keep, you know, keep, keep that rational in mind.

AI assessment note: “we are pretty neutral... it's a good risk reward to bet even at high valuation”

Q got the likes of Algolia and Deliveroo. Um, So I have to ask, with these rocket ship companies who have, you know, hundreds of term sheets on their, on their door, where do you sit on Cheryl Sambo's statement that it doesn't matter where you sit as long as you have a seat on the rocket ship? I mean, how important is valuation for you when determining whether to invest?

A I think we are pretty, you know, we are pretty neutral. You have to think about it this way. It's like your, your downside is always limited to the amount you're investing, uh, while your upside is unlimited by definition. So, so in all of these cases, uh, if you think, you know, you're truly in face of a, of a, of a rocket ship, um, and something that can be worth multiple billions, then, then, you know, very, you know, then very rapidly. It actually, you know, it's, it makes sense. It's a good risk reward to, to, to bet even at high valuation. You know, having said that, obviously in the short term, uh, nothing is, nothing has an infinite value. Uh, you know, even Facebook doesn't have infinite value. I mean, every, every company has a cap, has a cap price. So, so, you know, they can be too, you know, some things can be too expensive. Um, so, so you would have to kind of keep, you know, keep, keep that rational in mind.

AI assessment note: “It's a good risk reward to, to, to bet even at high valuation.”