The Exchanges

Q Talk to me about that, because again, dude, I've never run a sales team. That's why these shows are successful, because I ask the questions that everyone who has no idea what they're doing ask too. How do you do that? When do you hand off?

A The reps will go through the training, and then they do a bunch of the sales simulation, then mock calls, they get certified, they get certified on the craft, and then they do an operator certification, which is like, do you know how to use Salesforce and all the other stuff? And then their first calls, the managers are on all of them, basically. And you'll give the rep More and more rope as they show competence. So maybe at the beginning, all the rep can do is open the call, ask a few discovery questions, do a little bit of the demo before they get that deer in headlights look, and then the manager can jump in and take it over. So we see a lot of like manager closed deals in that first couple of weeks.

AI assessment note: “you'll give the rep More and more rope as they show competence.”

Q Got it. Love it. Reflect back on your time with Ona. You can relive one of the days. Which day do you choose to relive and why?

A That's a really good question. We had a pretty good one recently. On Wednesday, the end of April, we had to, like, have a big surge to hit the number, and I was in the office in Toronto. There was a bunch of reps in the San Francisco office. They're all remote, but we had them go in to basically just, like, do this end-of-month surge, bring the vibes, I was in the office till, like, one in the morning with just, like, one rep left over, and we closed the last deal at, like, 12:15 a.m. Toronto time, and the West Coast reps closed deals even, even later than that. It was just a really cool moment because we knew it was an important month for the company, and even at 1030, there was BDRs still making calls to the West Coast to try to get, like, last demos done. We were closing the very last deals. I just had a blast. We were collectively pushing for this number, even though almost every one of those reps was already at their number. They didn't really have to do it for themselves, and I think that is a special part of owners' DNA. Yeah, we have people that are very individually motivated, but this, like, collective is pretty special.

AI assessment note: “On Wednesday, the end of April, we had to, like, have a big surge”

Q Does customer acquisition get cheaper over time because you have brand, you have word of mouth, you have a humming sales and marketing team, or does it get more expensive? As you expand beyond your core ICP.

A It depends. So it depends on how big the market is. I think many markets you hit a saturation point and you've closed the low hanging fruit, the early adopters, and you see sales and marketing costs rise. It's falling pretty rapidly for us. We're getting more and more efficient as we grow, but we've also made tremendous investments upfront. Rev ops, enablement, data and biz ops. Like these are for anybody else looking at it would think like these teams are way overweight. For the size of team and the ARR we are at today. But we've built these systems and foundations that are allowing us to get increasingly efficient. And now as we bring in more and more reps and spend more and more in demand gen, that flywheel is, is pretty tough to stop.

AI assessment note: “It depends. So it depends on how big the market is.”

Q like we need just clarity to understand the next step. I want to start, dude, on something you said to me before. You said revenue leaders spend way too little time here. And don't think about it strategically when it comes to recruiting and talent development. If we start at the beginning of the funnel, sourcing, what are your biggest lessons on what it takes to source amazing sales talent?

A So number one, I think revenue leaders need to see this as one of the most core components of their job. Oftentimes they look at this as the realm of TA, and it's the talent team's job to bring them candidates. Let's post jobs, we'll put it on a bunch of boards, and then we'll see what we get from there. And that's just totally backwards in my opinion. Revenue leaders, especially if you're trying to operate at a pretty dynamic scale, this needs to be something that you're spending a massive part of your day on or thinking very deeply and strategically about it because many of these bets have long, long time horizons on them. So like content. So I've been writing on LinkedIn for six, seven years. I've amassed a bit of a following. And so in the early days of owner, I could post a role We would get 1200 applications. We would get 60 to a 100,000 impressions on every single job post I put up, and then that was picking from an incredible funnel of people who I'm basically sourcing myself.

AI assessment note: “content. So I've been writing on LinkedIn for six, seven years.”

Q How do you think about that? How do you do that successfully? Because, you know, as you said, there's the SaaS revenue, which is great, but also transaction revenue is a meaningful, meaningful part of it for you. And so when you think about really ensuring customer success, what have been your biggest lessons in how to do that well?

A Again, it goes back to data and infrastructure. So one of the things that the BizOps team did is build a scoring model for customer configuration quality. So it's called the growth potential score. So they did a big regression analysis, and we know exactly what things in the product, if they're set up well or not well, drive GPV, drive growth. And if a customer is making money, they're making us money, and they're much, much higher retention, so we get paid back multiple times there. So we built this GP score, the BizOps team does, and so we, we now know what a really high quality configuration looks like. That information is available to the launch specialist, so as they're setting up, They can see their GP score, they can see all the GP scores.

AI assessment note: “build a scoring model for customer configuration quality. So it's called the growth potential score.”

Q like we need just clarity to understand the next step. I want to start, dude, on something you said to me before. You said revenue leaders spend way too little time here. And don't think about it strategically when it comes to recruiting and talent development. If we start at the beginning of the funnel, sourcing, what are your biggest lessons on what it takes to source amazing sales talent?

A So number one, I think revenue leaders need to see this as one of the most core components of their job. Oftentimes they look at this as the realm of TA, and it's the talent team's job to bring them candidates. Let's post jobs, we'll put it on a bunch of boards, and then we'll see what we get from there. And that's just totally backwards in my opinion. Revenue leaders, especially if you're trying to operate at a pretty dynamic scale, this needs to be something that you're spending a massive part of your day on or thinking very deeply and strategically about it because many of these bets have long, long time horizons on them. So like content. So I've been writing on LinkedIn for six, seven years. I've amassed a bit of a following. And so in the early days of owner, I could post a role We would get 1200 applications. We would get 60 to a 100,000 impressions on every single job post I put up, and then that was picking from an incredible funnel of people who I'm basically sourcing myself.

AI assessment note: “I think revenue leaders need to see this as one of the most core components”

Q You said the next stage of the funnel is scorecard. Can you talk to me about scorecard and how you think it builds into building the best sales team?

A This comes back to systems engineering. It comes back to like, do you have a programmatic way to identify the right talent on a consistent basis in a way that you can then have somebody else do it? Or is this all going to fall apart as soon as you hand it off to your first sales manager, first VP of sales? And so for us, I've been using the framework of the same scorecard for Five to eight years, and I've iterated on it over time, but it has three components. One is DNA. It's mindset. So what are the intangibles and the things that are fairly intrinsic to the individual? The second piece of that is craft. What does their sales craft look like? And then the third piece is specific knowledge. And depending on the type of sales role that you're filling, your weighting is going to be different. I'm hiring SMB reps, so I'm like, 70% DNA and mindset. I just want people who have a professional Performance track record of excellence, and I don't care if it was sales or the valedictorian, captain of a sports team, first chair tuba at their, like, you know, local orchestra. Like, when you do things, do you do it at a really high level? Are they curious? Are they coachable? Are they an absolute grinder? Do they have resilience? There's a bunch in there. And because I'm hiring folks that are early in their careers, 70 to, honestly, 80% can be just, like, DNA, and I'll teach them the rest. …

AI assessment note: “I've been using the framework of the same scorecard... it has three components.”

Q Where do most revenue leaders misunderstand their P&L?

A They don't even understand it. They don't know where to start. They think it's the domain of, of finance, and finance gives them a headcount number, and they say, you have 17 reps, and you have to do this, and they say, okay. Or they get the number and they just complain about it. But they don't really understand sell by sell. The ARR model that we have, I understand it sell by sell. Every single input, because I own demand gen and growth as well, and so I have to connect all of these things to make sure that not only this month, but six months out, we have the right trajectory for all of these things to ladder up to the number. What's our AQL forecast from growth? What is the confidence interval that we're getting to this number by this date? Ok, what are the redundancies we have in place? And I'm always trying to layer in more than I actually anticipate we'll need, because one channel will falter. Something weird will happen. But then on a input by input basis, you have to have a high degree of proficiency or else you get surprised. This is what ends up happening to a lot of first time VPs of sales is they go into a quarter, they don't have enough pipeline and they go, oh, we have to generate like an extra four million in pipe and close it at a 25%. But our deal cycles, 120 days, you're cooked. There's no way to recover. You made that mistake six, six months ago. And so Unles…

AI assessment note: “They don't even understand it. They don't know where to start.”

Q Do you not think this is where marketing completely blends with sales, though? Because actually so many, you know, you have outbound, sure, but outbound is made far more successful when you outbound to someone who already watches your videos.

A A hundred percent. This is something that a lot of folks get wrong as they like squabble over attribution. They're like, oh, this is sales generated. This is marketing generated. And you end up at these local maximas. And we have a sort of a strange org structure where our VP of marketing who owns brand and PMM and customer marketing roles directly into Adam. I own growth and demand gen. You would think like, oh, that's a little squirrely and it works awesome. And everybody collaborates and it's a really productive structure. And My growth leader doesn't worry about, like, organic attribution. Neither does the VP of marketing. They understand that a ton of organic is actually driven by the paid marketing halo. So we don't worry about it.

AI assessment note: “A hundred percent. This is something that a lot of folks get wrong”

Q How do you think about that? How do you do that successfully? Because, you know, as you said, there's the SaaS revenue, which is great, but also transaction revenue is a meaningful, meaningful part of it for you. And so when you think about really ensuring customer success, what have been your biggest lessons in how to do that well?

A Again, it goes back to data and infrastructure. So one of the things that the BizOps team did is build a scoring model for customer configuration quality. So it's called the growth potential score. So they did a big regression analysis, and we know exactly what things in the product, if they're set up well or not well, drive GPV, drive growth. And if a customer is making money, they're making us money, and they're much, much higher retention, so we get paid back multiple times there. So we built this GP score, the BizOps team does, and so we, we now know what a really high quality configuration looks like. That information is available to the launch specialist, so as they're setting up, They can see their GP score, they can see all the GP scores.

AI assessment note: “build a scoring model for customer configuration quality. So it's called the growth potential score”

Q Under a week. How is that the case? I mean that with the most respectful, that is extraordinary.

A It's a compelling product that helps and it's a burning platform for people. Like we are helping them make money, which is very important. So folks are willing to move on it, but something else we do that I think helps a ton. The style of selling that I teach is radically transparent selling at the beginning of every demo. What we lead with is both the strengths and weaknesses of the product. So like one of the first things I'll say to a customer when I'm a call is, so I feature dump number one, which everybody tells you not to do, but I actually think people talk in such weird abstractions that customers don't understand it. I'll be like, okay, we do five things, website, online ordering, email, text message, marketing, custom branded app, listing management, all rolled into one. So that's like the product, but here's what you need to know about what's different than us and our competitors. We are going to give you way less flexibility and customization. If that's your main priority, owner's probably not a good fit. But in exchange for sacrificing this flexibility, you're gonna get way better results. And why that is, is because we have thousands and thousands of these restaurant customers, and we're constantly doing experiments and A-B tests, and the things that work, we're gonna roll out to every single customer. And we're not even gonna ask you some of the time. And you hav…

AI assessment note: “The style of selling that I teach is radically transparent selling”

Q What have you changed your mind on most in the last 12 months? I think ChatGPT and OpenAI are unwaveringly the dominant leader for the next 10 years, and I think they'll be a two trillion dollar company. I questioned, actually, that in the early days.

A Something that I changed my opinion on quite recently is O three is potentially AGI. I wrote about this a bit on my newsletter. There was such a stark difference to the capabilities of, of O three compared to everything before it. I mentioned how I wanted to hire this head of applied AI earlier. I started playing around with O three and I updated a bunch of my like chat GPT workflows to use O three. And I was just like, holy crap, this is so different. The memory, the reasoning, like the, the speed and being able to do research and also deeply reason. It made me think that this roadmap is moving even faster than I anticipated.

AI assessment note: “Something that I changed my opinion on quite recently is O three is potentially AGI.”

Q You can take Jason's side or Rory's side on who is right. Is AI gonna bring mass unemployment in a way that we haven't seen before?

A I don't think so because of Jevon's paradox. You saw this argument as compute got cheap. Well, all these foundation models going to be less valuable. It's like, no, it's cheaper now. Everybody's using way more compute. And so if the effectiveness of every salesperson and the effectiveness of all these individual contributors goes way up, are we going to want way, way more of those? I think yes. And I think AI is going to drive so much more company creation that there will be a consistent demand For these roles, because the economics of the roles get better. There's more companies that need sales reps. I mean, I cannot read the future on this topic, but Jevon's paradox may lead to high employment.

AI assessment note: “I don't think so because of Jevon's paradox.”

Q As specific as possible. I'm so sorry, but is it BDR acquisition? Is it launch specialist acquisition?

A It's the speed at which the number is growing in every single role, because at some point my content engine, like basically me cranking LinkedIn will only get us so far. And so we need new channels and I'm trying to make sure that we have these new sourcing channels lit up. Before we hit a point where it's like, oh man, we we're supposed to have seven people starting. We only have three and then you're starting to take action and it's sort of too late. I just did a university tour. I went and spoke at all the best business schools in and around the GTA as part of like a new way to source candidates. And we have seven new SDR starting next month just from this and then another four in July. And so again, like it comes back to this theme of how can you hit today, but also think about Tomorrow.

AI assessment note: “It's the speed at which the number is growing in every single role”

Q As specific as possible. I'm so sorry, but is it BDR acquisition? Is it launch specialist acquisition?

A It's the speed at which the number is growing in every single role, because at some point my content engine, like basically me cranking LinkedIn will only get us so far. And so we need new channels and I'm trying to make sure that we have these new sourcing channels lit up. Before we hit a point where it's like, oh man, we we're supposed to have seven people starting. We only have three and then you're starting to take action and it's sort of too late. I just did a university tour. I went and spoke at all the best business schools in and around the GTA as part of like a new way to source candidates. And we have seven new SDR starting next month just from this and then another four in July. And so again, like it comes back to this theme of how can you hit today, but also think about Tomorrow.

AI assessment note: “It's the speed at which the number is growing in every single role”

Q So what is an opportunity solution tree and how do you use it?

A It's a way to map from symptom to root cause. And I think one of the biggest challenges that revenue leaders have is we solve things at a surface level. And oftentimes we just like reason by analogy. We see a best practice on a podcast or something like that. And then we slap that into our business and we don't ask ourselves the question, okay, Win rates are low because of rep execution. So we'll go fix rep execution, but you don't go, why is rep execution not good? Well, is it a management thing or is it a training thing? It's a training thing. Well, why is there a training deficiency? Why, why, why, why, why? And you can sort of map from this opportunity solution tree from like symptoms all the way back to root cause. And oftentimes with this tree, you get back to the root cause and then actually there's something else to fix there instead of like, we just need to update the scripting.

AI assessment note: “It's a way to map from symptom to root cause.”

Q Talk to me about that, because again, dude, I've never run a sales team. That's why these shows are successful, because I ask the questions that everyone who has no idea what they're doing ask too. How do you do that? When do you hand off?

A The reps will go through the training, and then they do a bunch of the sales simulation, then mock calls, they get certified, they get certified on the craft, and then they do an operator certification, which is like, do you know how to use Salesforce and all the other stuff? And then their first calls, the managers are on all of them, basically. And you'll give the rep More and more rope as they show competence. So maybe at the beginning, all the rep can do is open the call, ask a few discovery questions, do a little bit of the demo before they get that deer in headlights look, and then the manager can jump in and take it over. So we see a lot of like manager closed deals in that first couple of weeks.

AI assessment note: “And you'll give the rep More and more rope as they show competence.”

Q Do you not think this is where marketing completely blends with sales, though? Because actually so many, you know, you have outbound, sure, but outbound is made far more successful when you outbound to someone who already watches your videos.

A A hundred percent. This is something that a lot of folks get wrong as they like squabble over attribution. They're like, oh, this is sales generated. This is marketing generated. And you end up at these local maximas. And we have a sort of a strange org structure where our VP of marketing who owns brand and PMM and customer marketing roles directly into Adam. I own growth and demand gen. You would think like, oh, that's a little squirrely and it works awesome. And everybody collaborates and it's a really productive structure. And My growth leader doesn't worry about, like, organic attribution. Neither does the VP of marketing. They understand that a ton of organic is actually driven by the paid marketing halo. So we don't worry about it.

AI assessment note: “A hundred percent. This is something that a lot of folks get wrong”

Q Under a week. How is that the case? I mean that with the most respectful, that is extraordinary.

A It's a compelling product that helps and it's a burning platform for people. Like we are helping them make money, which is very important. So folks are willing to move on it, but something else we do that I think helps a ton. The style of selling that I teach is radically transparent selling at the beginning of every demo. What we lead with is both the strengths and weaknesses of the product. So like one of the first things I'll say to a customer when I'm a call is, so I feature dump number one, which everybody tells you not to do, but I actually think people talk in such weird abstractions that customers don't understand it. I'll be like, okay, we do five things, website, online ordering, email, text message, marketing, custom branded app, listing management, all rolled into one. So that's like the product, but here's what you need to know about what's different than us and our competitors. We are going to give you way less flexibility and customization. If that's your main priority, owner's probably not a good fit. But in exchange for sacrificing this flexibility, you're gonna get way better results. And why that is, is because we have thousands and thousands of these restaurant customers, and we're constantly doing experiments and A-B tests, and the things that work, we're gonna roll out to every single customer. And we're not even gonna ask you some of the time. And you hav…

AI assessment note: “The style of selling that I teach is radically transparent selling at the beginning”

Q And my favorite thing about secrets is you tell the world and people still don't listen. Do you know what I mean?

A People ask me this All the time. Be like, aren't you afraid? You're like giving away all of the stuff that your company's doing. And I tell him, it's like one, I don't think anybody's really going to do it that well. This was something from Stevie. Like execution is the only moat and I'll always execute out, execute these folks. I'm a hundred percent confident in that. And the other piece is like, if you're a direct competitor of mine and you start using my tactics, I'm in your head. You know now that I'm better than you are, and you'll have to carry that with you, always knowing that you're one step behind and you're just trying to copy me.

AI assessment note: “aren't you afraid? You're like giving away all of the stuff that your company's doing.”

Q Does customer acquisition get cheaper over time because you have brand, you have word of mouth, you have a humming sales and marketing team, or does it get more expensive? As you expand beyond your core ICP.

A It depends. So it depends on how big the market is. I think many markets you hit a saturation point and you've closed the low hanging fruit, the early adopters, and you see sales and marketing costs rise. It's falling pretty rapidly for us. We're getting more and more efficient as we grow, but we've also made tremendous investments upfront. Rev ops, enablement, data and biz ops. Like these are for anybody else looking at it would think like these teams are way overweight. For the size of team and the ARR we are at today. But we've built these systems and foundations that are allowing us to get increasingly efficient. And now as we bring in more and more reps and spend more and more in demand gen, that flywheel is, is pretty tough to stop.

AI assessment note: “It depends... you hit a saturation point... It's falling pretty rapidly for us.”

Q And my favorite thing about secrets is you tell the world and people still don't listen. Do you know what I mean?

A People ask me this All the time. Be like, aren't you afraid? You're like giving away all of the stuff that your company's doing. And I tell him, it's like one, I don't think anybody's really going to do it that well. This was something from Stevie. Like execution is the only moat and I'll always execute out, execute these folks. I'm a hundred percent confident in that. And the other piece is like, if you're a direct competitor of mine and you start using my tactics, I'm in your head. You know now that I'm better than you are, and you'll have to carry that with you, always knowing that you're one step behind and you're just trying to copy me.

AI assessment note: “one, I don't think anybody's really going to do it that well.”

Q So what is an opportunity solution tree and how do you use it?

A It's a way to map from symptom to root cause. And I think one of the biggest challenges that revenue leaders have is we solve things at a surface level. And oftentimes we just like reason by analogy. We see a best practice on a podcast or something like that. And then we slap that into our business and we don't ask ourselves the question, okay, Win rates are low because of rep execution. So we'll go fix rep execution, but you don't go, why is rep execution not good? Well, is it a management thing or is it a training thing? It's a training thing. Well, why is there a training deficiency? Why, why, why, why, why? And you can sort of map from this opportunity solution tree from like symptoms all the way back to root cause. And oftentimes with this tree, you get back to the root cause and then actually there's something else to fix there instead of like, we just need to update the scripting.

AI assessment note: “It's a way to map from symptom to root cause.”

Q Do you think it's valuable to have competitors in your head? Like, do you like to inspire teams with, like, hey, we're beating X competitor?

A We don't that much. Yeah, we'll joke around about it, but it's not really, like, our driving motivation. It is the mission. Like, it's easy to feel good about helping, like, a restaurant down the street just survive and get by and, A lot of the motivation for the team is sharing these success stories. Like you see your customer in one of the channels that's grown like three X and they're making like six grand more a month, which, you know, it doesn't seem like a lot of money, but if you're a restaurant owner and your take home is like you're working a hundred hours a week and net, net, net, net, you're only making 80 grand. And now there's an extra 40 grand in your pocket because we've helped you grow online, which is highly profitable. It's easy to be really excited about that. We do pay attention to some competitors, but Which competitor do you most respect? I have a lot of respect for Toast. Good product craft. Their GTM execution is really good. They operate in a pretty, like, respectful way, too. Like, we don't find Toast doing shenanigans to their customers. I think, like, the competitors that I have complete disregard and disrespect for are the ones that treat their customers poorly. These are SMBs, and you're, like, trapping them into a contract. You're holding their domain hostage so they can't move over. You're lying to them. About all of this stuff and trying to fear…

AI assessment note: “We don't that much. Yeah, we'll joke around about it, but it's not”

Q What is the biggest thing that RevOps has done to make a humming and efficient machine, do you think?

A A few things. So one is trying to automate and obfuscate all of the low value stuff. So we use Momentum that looks at the transcript of every single sales call, and it fills in the Salesforce fields for the rep. It fills in their opportunity record, it updates the account, the person, it says whether or not the event was run or not, all of that stuff that could take a rep a whole bunch of time to manually fill out. That's all done for them. We try to simplify the business process as much as we can for the reps and then tooling. We're really insistent on trying to bring in tools that make the team more and more effective, both pre and post sales. Like I think sometimes the pre sales gets all of the investment and post sales doesn't, but a company that I know, you know, is Pavlov and they're, I was, we were their first customer. Yeah, Mark and I worked together very closely at Shopify.

AI assessment note: “one is trying to automate and obfuscate all of the low value stuff”

Q Can I be a dick? Where do the best BDRs come from? Where do not good BDRs come from?

A You can find good BDRs everywhere. I like Jason's advice. Go to a company that's not number one in their category. Who's the number one BDR at a second and third place company? Cause that's hard. And if you have a great product and you bring that person into your environment, they'll do really, really well. We've hired a bunch of people, you know, that company where we've hired nine people from, that's a mediocre product in a very competitive market. And those people are well-trained salespeople that come into our environment and they rip because our product's great. And so now they have, you know, good sales craft. They've, they've got the grit and now they, you marry that with a number one product in its category and people will take off.

AI assessment note: “Go to a company that's not number one in their category.”

Q Can I be a dick? Where do the best BDRs come from? Where do not good BDRs come from?

A You can find good BDRs everywhere. I like Jason's advice. Go to a company that's not number one in their category. Who's the number one BDR at a second and third place company? Cause that's hard. And if you have a great product and you bring that person into your environment, they'll do really, really well. We've hired a bunch of people, you know, that company where we've hired nine people from, that's a mediocre product in a very competitive market. And those people are well-trained salespeople that come into our environment and they rip because our product's great. And so now they have, you know, good sales craft. They've, they've got the grit and now they, you marry that with a number one product in its category and people will take off.

AI assessment note: “Go to a company that's not number one in their category.”

Q Tell me, Ona, 20, 35, 10 years out. Where is Ona then?

A I think we'll be a, a generational public company. The only reason I left Shopify Because I loved my setup there. I still love Shopify. I think it's an amazing company. I think Toby is one of the greats. There was nothing making me want to leave shop. The only reason I joined owner is I think Adam has the chance to be a generational CEO. I think he's got all of all of the DNA. This is a massive market, and this is a chance for me to hit a grand slam. It seems really arrogant, but like, I want to be one of the handful of people that have taken a company from early to IPO. You need an incredible team and market and all this stuff to be able to make that happen. And I thought owner was that bet. And I actually feel more bullish today on that than I did three years ago.

AI assessment note: “I think we'll be a, a generational public company.”

Q Is that not okay if I crush quote a few for two years?

A I might not even get two years out of them if that's the case. Especially because owner has so much brand equity now. This happens all the time where, where founders see us and they go, I just need to seed my team with people from that organization. Yeah, they're going to try to overpay, but if that individual believes in the mission and we're doing the other parts of that engagement methodology. So I have this methodology called cramps. So there's like five things I want to do to make sure people are highly engaged and retained. So community. So do people feel a sense of connection to the business and to the mission that we're supporting? Recognition is huge. I didn't invent any of this stuff. You can read any of the engagement research and get this stuff. Autonomy. So this is from Daniel Pink, Autonomy, Mastery, Purpose. Do they have a sense that they are empowered to go out and do their thing? Do they have an internal locus of control? Because there's this thing called the over justification effect. If you are glomming on to them constantly and getting people to do their job is just push, push, push, push, push, push. Then you take away their internal locus of control and they actually will become less motivated. So I want to give them a sense of autonomy that they are in charge of their career and their business. So community recognition, autonomy, mastery. Mastery is do th…

AI assessment note: “I might not even get two years out of them if that's the case.”

Q Is that not okay if I crush quote a few for two years?

A I might not even get two years out of them if that's the case. Especially because owner has so much brand equity now. This happens all the time where, where founders see us and they go, I just need to seed my team with people from that organization. Yeah, they're going to try to overpay, but if that individual believes in the mission and we're doing the other parts of that engagement methodology. So I have this methodology called cramps. So there's like five things I want to do to make sure people are highly engaged and retained. So community. So do people feel a sense of connection to the business and to the mission that we're supporting? Recognition is huge. I didn't invent any of this stuff. You can read any of the engagement research and get this stuff. Autonomy. So this is from Daniel Pink, Autonomy, Mastery, Purpose. Do they have a sense that they are empowered to go out and do their thing? Do they have an internal locus of control? Because there's this thing called the over justification effect. If you are glomming on to them constantly and getting people to do their job is just push, push, push, push, push, push. Then you take away their internal locus of control and they actually will become less motivated. So I want to give them a sense of autonomy that they are in charge of their career and their business. So community recognition, autonomy, mastery. Mastery is do th…

AI assessment note: “I might not even get two years out of them if that's the case.”