The Exchanges

Q Well, I've had that many times, don't mind. Okay, so, so, so that's a fascinating realization to come to. I'm, I'm really intrigued that in that period you saw a massive change, surely, in kind of consumer shopping behaviors when you were with Aldo with the rise of kind of mobile and, and the rise of online shopping. So how did you see consumer behavior change in that time?

A I think I saw a change twofold. I think I saw, first and foremost, a merchandising change. So I think we, we started to see that We had these power SKUs, uh, that really were selling 70%, uh, of the assortment, so we would make a couple of products, they would turn into bestsellers, and the bestsellers were really carrying the entire business, and then, you know, when I looked across the landscape and other categories, you started to see this emerge around certain constructions, so I started to look at headphones, and beats, and, and wireless speakers, and Sonos, and, and then Fitbit, and you started to see these kind of mono construction industrial design products Really kind of winning the day in a lot of categories, even in footwear, which was surprising. And then, of course, as you mentioned, you really saw the rise of, you know, the cannibalization of brick and mortar shopping, uh, by, you know, online, uh, shopping. You know, we, we said at Aldo that aldo.com was our number one store by tenfold and very, very efficient store at that. And then I think simultaneously started to see these kind of unsexy categories really emerge, you know, The mattress boom of the last two years, and I happen to know some of the founders of those, those companies, you know, where younger people are kind of reimagining industries that had not been looked at by anybody in 3040 years through gre…

AI assessment note: “I think I saw a change twofold. I think I saw, first and foremost”

Q And we mentioned VCs there, and pitching to factories is actually the first VC, but obviously as a VC show, I have to touch on the fundraising game. And you've recently raised a seed round?

A We actually raised a seed round about a year and change ago. It wasn't announced, and I guess that's where being a lawyer is actually quite convenient, so I didn't file any of the securities regulatory, uh, forms, so it never gets picked up by all of the tech crunch and all of these things, and for me, I view the VCs as great, great partners for me, or especially the ones that I have, uh, and great relationships, but celebrating raising money is not something I'm, I'm that into, um, and so I, I decided ultimately to stay stealthed, Uh, through our entire development, which is almost two years, um, and not announced anything until we launched. So the round that was announced actually was, uh, over a year old. And so, uh, it was led by first round capital and Lairr.

AI assessment note: “We actually raised a seed round about a year and change ago.”

Q Absolutely. And I'm, I'm really intrigued them. Brilliant investors, absolutely the top cream of the crop. So how did you come to meet the investors and how was the fundraising journey for you then as the entrepreneur?

A So it was actually quite long and it began long, long before I actually thought I was going to raise any money for this. Cause it started as a much smaller idea. And I actually was introduced to Ben Lehrer because I was sitting at a wedding, uh, with one of his associates and I just went in for meetings really to talk about what I was doing, but there was no hard to ask. I was still in the prototyping phase and I would say Ben quite smartly waited until I had a working prototype before taking, you know, the leap. And similar with first round, I really, you know, spent a lot of time with other hardware entrepreneurs and other entrepreneurs in You know, e-commerce businesses, and then, uh, was introduced, uh, to first round that way. And kind of the whole thing came together, uh, last summer, but it was almost a year, a year in the making of really just talking about the vision of the company and what the strategy was, uh, to get to launch, uh, before I even set any type of, you know, ask as far as capital. And I think sometimes, uh, founders, especially first time founders like myself, you need to almost raise capital when you're ready to raise capital, which means you really have A plan and a prototype and you're, you, you understand when you're going to launch. I wasn't ready to do that for almost a year.

AI assessment note: “I actually was introduced to Ben Lehrer because I was sitting at a wedding”

Q crop VCs, sorry. Um, so, so what do you think you did well? Was it the serendipity of you not actually deliberately going out to raise? Uh, was that, was that it that made you do so well? Uh, so I'm intrigued. What did you do well? And then what did you do badly in the fundraising process that you'd like to improve on with the A and the B?

A Yeah, I think I, I built relationships over, you know, a considerable period of time, and I think I still do. Uh, I think sometimes that can be a negative thing because there's maybe no urgency. I think one of the things great fundraisers do is create this sense of urgency around, around a raise. Uh, I think one of the things that I tend to do well, which is crazy when you think about, you know, the fact that this is a case is, uh, I'm super passionate about it. So I really do Like any founder, you know, but I've gotten crazy about, you know, suitcases and how beautiful they can be and how useful they can be and how much they can change your travel experience and how having a great product really does lead to a better experience in kind of every sector of consumer. And so, uh, and that can be kind of a negative thing sometimes when you're raising money because, uh, the more emotional you get about things, you know, when people inevitably say no to you, uh, it can, it can hurt. And, you know, sometimes you can say things, uh, you, you can regret.

AI assessment note: “I built relationships over, you know, a considerable period of time”

Q Because obviously you mentioned the integration of the hardware and the software. So, so I'd love to discuss how kind of IOT businesses now, uh, hardware as a service that combine the very best of physical products with the superior mobile experiences. So what's your take on this and how you navigate around it?

A I mean, I really think that these are the products of the future. You know, you really end up when everything works well, you end up with a superior physical product. You know, a superior bag or speaker or, or headphone or whatever it may be, uh, with a very highly engaging, uh, mobile experience, which, you know, prompts the user. We, you know, we call our, our case a Trojan horse in a way, because we see already that the engagement is very high with the app, uh, when people are traveling. And then you have this opportunity to continue to delight the customer, uh, with your brand and your service and provide all sorts of Information in our case about travel or fitness, if you're Fitbit or, you know, music recommendations, if you're Sonos, you really have this great opportunity to continue to engage long after the purchase, which is something that really very few other physical products are able to deliver. And I, for me, you know, I already see even around customer experience, you know, when you can communicate with your customer at the touch of a button on an application, that's the customer experience of the future. Um, instead of having to dial one eight eight eight and get somebody on the line and coordinate some type of return for us, it's, you know, instant.

AI assessment note: “I really think that these are the products of the future.”

Q Absolutely. And I'm, I'm really intrigued them. Brilliant investors, absolutely the top cream of the crop. So how did you come to meet the investors and how was the fundraising journey for you then as the entrepreneur?

A So it was actually quite long and it began long, long before I actually thought I was going to raise any money for this. Cause it started as a much smaller idea. And I actually was introduced to Ben Lehrer because I was sitting at a wedding, uh, with one of his associates and I just went in for meetings really to talk about what I was doing, but there was no hard to ask. I was still in the prototyping phase and I would say Ben quite smartly waited until I had a working prototype before taking, you know, the leap. And similar with first round, I really, you know, spent a lot of time with other hardware entrepreneurs and other entrepreneurs in You know, e-commerce businesses, and then, uh, was introduced, uh, to first round that way. And kind of the whole thing came together, uh, last summer, but it was almost a year, a year in the making of really just talking about the vision of the company and what the strategy was, uh, to get to launch, uh, before I even set any type of, you know, ask as far as capital. And I think sometimes, uh, founders, especially first time founders like myself, you need to almost raise capital when you're ready to raise capital, which means you really have A plan and a prototype and you're, you, you understand when you're going to launch. I wasn't ready to do that for almost a year.

AI assessment note: “I was introduced to Ben Lehrer because I was sitting at a wedding”

Q DNA is Fundamentally different about the long game, and you have a brand building mentality that's all about the product and the customer and telling the story. So I'm really intrigued is how you've gone about that in a way that makes suitcases, you know, traditionally, no offense, very unsexy, and how you've made them actually very attractive and a luxury item. How do you approach that as a producer?

A So I think it's, you know, industrial design first. Uh, I was fortunate enough Two years ago to have looked far and wide for great designers, and had actually worked with some other people before, but, uh, I met Kenny Sweet, uh, who had worked on the Beats project for a number of years, and we really vibed, and I had this merchandising concept around, uh, a single, uh, almost unlined product, you know, that was very stark and looked like many of the products that we've been buying today, and it was something you just didn't see in the luggage business. The luggage business is kind of a Mr. Potato Head business, I call it, The traditional brands, the companies take catalog parts, um, from a number of different factories, and then they put them together on some randomly designed cyborg shell. Um, and then they spit it out, you know, to the consumer and they slap a logo right in the middle of the box. And maybe that worked for a while because there really were not, you know, any greatly designed products of high quality or anything else. And I think for me, it really started with, you know, what's the icon of design and how do I get Uh, consumers to really want to buy something that's as beautiful as it is functional. Um, so that's really kind of where it started as far as brand building. And then you layer onto it, all of your digital imagery, your, your photography, your graphic…

AI assessment note: “So I think it's, you know, industrial design first.”

Q And you said there about, um, relationship building with VCs and we always hear about the warm intro So, so would you ever email a VC cold completely out of the blue? Is, is that kind of too bullish for you or is that something that is well within your, your reach?

A No, it's well within my reach. I do it all the time. I, I cold email people all the time in kind of all walks of life. People we want to work with creatively on video, on branding, on photography, and of course in VC, uh, there are certain VCs who have awesome reputations and who've really been instrumental in businesses like mine and You know, just like anything else, if you want something, uh, you go get it. It doesn't necessarily always mean by the way that it's about capital. It can be about, you know, getting advice or people who've been in the trenches and know what it's like to build one of these things. But, uh, warm intros are great, but sometimes if you, if you need to, you have to just do what you have to do. It gets easier, you know, after you've launched because then you're Googleable takes away some of the referencing problems, but no, I do both.

AI assessment note: “No, it's well within my reach. I do it all the time.”

Q And I'm intrigued. What's the hardest part of the hardware element? Is it the supply chain management? Is it the prototyping phase? Is it manufacturing? What's been the most challenging for you? And what's been actually the, the most easy that you didn't expect?

A So it was very hard when I was on my own with, you know, my own means and everything else, and then I think I got very lucky, I should say. So I ended up partnering up with some guys who were leaving Quirky about a year ago, and so I actually had an easier time around some of the prototyping, you know, and manufacturing. I also will say that, you know, our factory really is my first VC before I ever had VCs. I really went there to pitch and My advice to entrepreneurs is, you know, do the sourcing work, and a lot of the, the things around VC will come easier, because they're really the people that are going to invest in building your prototypes. Um, I would say the difficult thing is coordinating the timing, uh, around when you're going to release, and kind of when to hire and bring on all the various teams, because you have, uh, in my case, a mobile development happening simultaneously with a physical hardware development, and then being able to Produce, uh, you know, enough units and have the mobile application, the firmware respond all in the same period of time and having enough capital, uh, at the time in order to be able to launch something that actually works. I'm not the first person to have, you know, extreme challenges with that. We were going to launch our company in November and we just didn't have enough product that was made in time in order to hit holiday. So then…

AI assessment note: “the difficult thing is coordinating the timing, uh, around when you're going to release”

Q And then I want to finish on one final question on, on kind of financing the hardware game itself now and ask, why was Kickstarter Indiegogo not in the roadmap for you? And why did you choose VC funding to start with?

A Oh, just terrible, you know, customer expectations as a buyer of some of those products and, and very, very empathetically with the founders there, because I know how hard it is to actually get, get these products out the door. I just feel like, It's starting to become, first of all, very, very difficult to build a brand off of those platforms. I think they're, they're good at generating a certain level of sales, but then you never actually build, you know, a brand or any type of marketing funnel or really figure out, you know, actually how to ship these, these products efficiently, uh, to consumers with great customer experience. And then, you know, as a, somebody who shops quite often, uh, we're really in an economy, I feel, where people don't want to wait for anything. So you don't want to put something in their mind and then, You know, it goes away for, uh, you know, a year, and then it comes to the U, and your expectation level is very high, and then you inevitably are very disappointed because it doesn't do or look like what you thought it would, because that's all normal in building hardware. So for us, you know, it was really about launching and then being able to ship product, and then you still have problems because we sold out of all the product that we had made, even with venture funding and working capital funding and everything else, and so now we're You know, 15 …

AI assessment note: “very, very difficult to build a brand off of those platforms”

Q DNA is Fundamentally different about the long game, and you have a brand building mentality that's all about the product and the customer and telling the story. So I'm really intrigued is how you've gone about that in a way that makes suitcases, you know, traditionally, no offense, very unsexy, and how you've made them actually very attractive and a luxury item. How do you approach that as a producer?

A So I think it's, you know, industrial design first. Uh, I was fortunate enough Two years ago to have looked far and wide for great designers, and had actually worked with some other people before, but, uh, I met Kenny Sweet, uh, who had worked on the Beats project for a number of years, and we really vibed, and I had this merchandising concept around, uh, a single, uh, almost unlined product, you know, that was very stark and looked like many of the products that we've been buying today, and it was something you just didn't see in the luggage business. The luggage business is kind of a Mr. Potato Head business, I call it, The traditional brands, the companies take catalog parts, um, from a number of different factories, and then they put them together on some randomly designed cyborg shell. Um, and then they spit it out, you know, to the consumer and they slap a logo right in the middle of the box. And maybe that worked for a while because there really were not, you know, any greatly designed products of high quality or anything else. And I think for me, it really started with, you know, what's the icon of design and how do I get Uh, consumers to really want to buy something that's as beautiful as it is functional. Um, so that's really kind of where it started as far as brand building. And then you layer onto it, all of your digital imagery, your, your photography, your graphic…

AI assessment note: “So I think it's, you know, industrial design first.”

Q And I'm intrigued. Why are you, why are you bullish on omnichannel purchasing then? What are the reasons behind this for you?

A You know, first of all, I still really get excited, you know, even to go back to your, your last, Uh, question. I really get excited by, uh, retail and physical retail, and I think the excitement for me is around building these like FAO shorts or Disney style experiences where it feels exciting again to go into a store. There's been no reason to go into stores because the stores are as banal as it is. Being online is actually more exciting sometimes than going into these marble coliseums or whatever else it is, uh, on all the high streets of the world. So I'm bullish on the opportunity to create exciting, uh, retail display and Uh, even a couple of weeks ago in our shop in New York, we hosted an event where we actually kept the shop open from sundown to sunrise, simulating a layover in an airport. And we had, you know, 30 or 40 actors, um, portraying all the people you might meet on a layover at an airport. And we had lots of people there. And I think there's just an opportunity to make going into stores exciting. And then just from a purely practical standpoint, um, it's quite expensive, you know, when you're building a marketing funnel, uh, Directing, you know, tons of traffic to your single website selling anything, uh, whether it's mattresses or luggage or razors or anything else. Um, and so we really, you know, believe that we can partner up with other great first online r…

AI assessment note: “So I'm bullish on the opportunity to create exciting, uh, retail display”

Q Because obviously you mentioned the integration of the hardware and the software. So, so I'd love to discuss how kind of IOT businesses now, uh, hardware as a service that combine the very best of physical products with the superior mobile experiences. So what's your take on this and how you navigate around it?

A I mean, I really think that these are the products of the future. You know, you really end up when everything works well, you end up with a superior physical product. You know, a superior bag or speaker or, or headphone or whatever it may be, uh, with a very highly engaging, uh, mobile experience, which, you know, prompts the user. We, you know, we call our, our case a Trojan horse in a way, because we see already that the engagement is very high with the app, uh, when people are traveling. And then you have this opportunity to continue to delight the customer, uh, with your brand and your service and provide all sorts of Information in our case about travel or fitness, if you're Fitbit or, you know, music recommendations, if you're Sonos, you really have this great opportunity to continue to engage long after the purchase, which is something that really very few other physical products are able to deliver. And I, for me, you know, I already see even around customer experience, you know, when you can communicate with your customer at the touch of a button on an application, that's the customer experience of the future. Um, instead of having to dial one eight eight eight and get somebody on the line and coordinate some type of return for us, it's, you know, instant.

AI assessment note: “I really think that these are the products of the future.”

Q And you said there about, um, relationship building with VCs and we always hear about the warm intro So, so would you ever email a VC cold completely out of the blue? Is, is that kind of too bullish for you or is that something that is well within your, your reach?

A No, it's well within my reach. I do it all the time. I, I cold email people all the time in kind of all walks of life. People we want to work with creatively on video, on branding, on photography, and of course in VC, uh, there are certain VCs who have awesome reputations and who've really been instrumental in businesses like mine and You know, just like anything else, if you want something, uh, you go get it. It doesn't necessarily always mean by the way that it's about capital. It can be about, you know, getting advice or people who've been in the trenches and know what it's like to build one of these things. But, uh, warm intros are great, but sometimes if you, if you need to, you have to just do what you have to do. It gets easier, you know, after you've launched because then you're Googleable takes away some of the referencing problems, but no, I do both.

AI assessment note: “No, it's well within my reach. I do it all the time.”

Q Well, I've had that many times, don't mind. Okay, so, so, so that's a fascinating realization to come to. I'm, I'm really intrigued that in that period you saw a massive change, surely, in kind of consumer shopping behaviors when you were with Aldo with the rise of kind of mobile and, and the rise of online shopping. So how did you see consumer behavior change in that time?

A I think I saw a change twofold. I think I saw, first and foremost, a merchandising change. So I think we, we started to see that We had these power SKUs, uh, that really were selling 70%, uh, of the assortment, so we would make a couple of products, they would turn into bestsellers, and the bestsellers were really carrying the entire business, and then, you know, when I looked across the landscape and other categories, you started to see this emerge around certain constructions, so I started to look at headphones, and beats, and, and wireless speakers, and Sonos, and, and then Fitbit, and you started to see these kind of mono construction industrial design products Really kind of winning the day in a lot of categories, even in footwear, which was surprising. And then, of course, as you mentioned, you really saw the rise of, you know, the cannibalization of brick and mortar shopping, uh, by, you know, online, uh, shopping. You know, we, we said at Aldo that aldo.com was our number one store by tenfold and very, very efficient store at that. And then I think simultaneously started to see these kind of unsexy categories really emerge, you know, The mattress boom of the last two years, and I happen to know some of the founders of those, those companies, you know, where younger people are kind of reimagining industries that had not been looked at by anybody in 3040 years through gre…

AI assessment note: “you really saw the rise of, you know, the cannibalization of brick and mortar shopping”

Q And I'm intrigued. What's the hardest part of the hardware element? Is it the supply chain management? Is it the prototyping phase? Is it manufacturing? What's been the most challenging for you? And what's been actually the, the most easy that you didn't expect?

A So it was very hard when I was on my own with, you know, my own means and everything else, and then I think I got very lucky, I should say. So I ended up partnering up with some guys who were leaving Quirky about a year ago, and so I actually had an easier time around some of the prototyping, you know, and manufacturing. I also will say that, you know, our factory really is my first VC before I ever had VCs. I really went there to pitch and My advice to entrepreneurs is, you know, do the sourcing work, and a lot of the, the things around VC will come easier, because they're really the people that are going to invest in building your prototypes. Um, I would say the difficult thing is coordinating the timing, uh, around when you're going to release, and kind of when to hire and bring on all the various teams, because you have, uh, in my case, a mobile development happening simultaneously with a physical hardware development, and then being able to Produce, uh, you know, enough units and have the mobile application, the firmware respond all in the same period of time and having enough capital, uh, at the time in order to be able to launch something that actually works. I'm not the first person to have, you know, extreme challenges with that. We were going to launch our company in November and we just didn't have enough product that was made in time in order to hit holiday. So then…

AI assessment note: “it's a balancing act that that's really the hardest thing, I think.”

Q And we mentioned VCs there, and pitching to factories is actually the first VC, but obviously as a VC show, I have to touch on the fundraising game. And you've recently raised a seed round?

A We actually raised a seed round about a year and change ago. It wasn't announced, and I guess that's where being a lawyer is actually quite convenient, so I didn't file any of the securities regulatory, uh, forms, so it never gets picked up by all of the tech crunch and all of these things, and for me, I view the VCs as great, great partners for me, or especially the ones that I have, uh, and great relationships, but celebrating raising money is not something I'm, I'm that into, um, and so I, I decided ultimately to stay stealthed, Uh, through our entire development, which is almost two years, um, and not announced anything until we launched. So the round that was announced actually was, uh, over a year old. And so, uh, it was led by first round capital and Lairr.

AI assessment note: “We actually raised a seed round about a year and change ago. It wasn't announced”

Q And then I want to finish on one final question on, on kind of financing the hardware game itself now and ask, why was Kickstarter Indiegogo not in the roadmap for you? And why did you choose VC funding to start with?

A Oh, just terrible, you know, customer expectations as a buyer of some of those products and, and very, very empathetically with the founders there, because I know how hard it is to actually get, get these products out the door. I just feel like, It's starting to become, first of all, very, very difficult to build a brand off of those platforms. I think they're, they're good at generating a certain level of sales, but then you never actually build, you know, a brand or any type of marketing funnel or really figure out, you know, actually how to ship these, these products efficiently, uh, to consumers with great customer experience. And then, you know, as a, somebody who shops quite often, uh, we're really in an economy, I feel, where people don't want to wait for anything. So you don't want to put something in their mind and then, You know, it goes away for, uh, you know, a year, and then it comes to the U, and your expectation level is very high, and then you inevitably are very disappointed because it doesn't do or look like what you thought it would, because that's all normal in building hardware. So for us, you know, it was really about launching and then being able to ship product, and then you still have problems because we sold out of all the product that we had made, even with venture funding and working capital funding and everything else, and so now we're You know, 15 …

AI assessment note: “for us, you know, it was really about launching and then being able to ship product”

Q And I'm intrigued. Why are you, why are you bullish on omnichannel purchasing then? What are the reasons behind this for you?

A You know, first of all, I still really get excited, you know, even to go back to your, your last, Uh, question. I really get excited by, uh, retail and physical retail, and I think the excitement for me is around building these like FAO shorts or Disney style experiences where it feels exciting again to go into a store. There's been no reason to go into stores because the stores are as banal as it is. Being online is actually more exciting sometimes than going into these marble coliseums or whatever else it is, uh, on all the high streets of the world. So I'm bullish on the opportunity to create exciting, uh, retail display and Uh, even a couple of weeks ago in our shop in New York, we hosted an event where we actually kept the shop open from sundown to sunrise, simulating a layover in an airport. And we had, you know, 30 or 40 actors, um, portraying all the people you might meet on a layover at an airport. And we had lots of people there. And I think there's just an opportunity to make going into stores exciting. And then just from a purely practical standpoint, um, it's quite expensive, you know, when you're building a marketing funnel, uh, Directing, you know, tons of traffic to your single website selling anything, uh, whether it's mattresses or luggage or razors or anything else. Um, and so we really, you know, believe that we can partner up with other great first online r…

AI assessment note: “it's quite expensive, you know, when you're building a marketing funnel”

Q How did you deal with that? Although, you know, getting a no is an obvious part of every fundraising. How did you do that when you were so passionate about the product and the mission behind the company?

A I think the first ones are hard because, you know, you're rolling in what, you know, what you think is the most beautiful product and you say, how do you not see this? Because, you know, the industry in our case is a forty billion dollar a year business globally. So, It's not even really about creating in, in our case, uh, you know, an opportunity or creating a new category like you'd see in the fitness wearables seven or eight years ago. It's really about diverting demand to something that in your mind is clearly superior, but you just kind of have to step away from it. And, uh, one of the great things is there are many great investors in many cities and eventually just like dating or anything else, you, you find your match.

AI assessment note: “you just kind of have to step away from it... eventually just like dating”

Q crop VCs, sorry. Um, so, so what do you think you did well? Was it the serendipity of you not actually deliberately going out to raise? Uh, was that, was that it that made you do so well? Uh, so I'm intrigued. What did you do well? And then what did you do badly in the fundraising process that you'd like to improve on with the A and the B?

A Yeah, I think I, I built relationships over, you know, a considerable period of time, and I think I still do. Uh, I think sometimes that can be a negative thing because there's maybe no urgency. I think one of the things great fundraisers do is create this sense of urgency around, around a raise. Uh, I think one of the things that I tend to do well, which is crazy when you think about, you know, the fact that this is a case is, uh, I'm super passionate about it. So I really do Like any founder, you know, but I've gotten crazy about, you know, suitcases and how beautiful they can be and how useful they can be and how much they can change your travel experience and how having a great product really does lead to a better experience in kind of every sector of consumer. And so, uh, and that can be kind of a negative thing sometimes when you're raising money because, uh, the more emotional you get about things, you know, when people inevitably say no to you, uh, it can, it can hurt. And, you know, sometimes you can say things, uh, you, you can regret.

AI assessment note: “I built relationships over, you know, a considerable period of time”

Q the incumbents there, and something that very much amused me when I was doing the research for this interview was, was the large incumbents actually state in their annual, official annual reports, this is, that they're not good at selling online. So, so, I'm intrigued. What are they doing wrong, and what are you doing, and what can be done to opt Optimize the online sales process, do you think?

A Well, I don't want to give them too many secrets on how to sell great online, but I think one of the things that's interesting for us is because we're going with this mono skew, uh, plan, it's very easy for us to communicate kind of first and foremost, our values as a brand and show the imagery. But then even on the product level, you know, right now we make a single product in multiple sizes and colorways, and we'll continue to do that. So we'll be launching some other sizes later in the year. Um, but we have an opportunity to go really deep, and I think that's what all the great, uh, new digital brands do, and I say for us, we're a digital brand because we don't really consider ourselves direct-to-consumer. I'm not really a big believer in the whole direct-to-consumer narrative in every single category. I think omni-channel retail, uh, for me is the way to go, and for others, um, but we really have this great opportunity to tell a great story, so that's great, and then go very deep on the product, so really show The functionality, the, the imagery, the interior, um, how it's going to work with the customer experience and, and the pairing moment and everything else. And I think that's, that's the opportunity there is to go so deep into it. You know, by the end of the experience, the friction has been removed, uh, as far as the purchase.

AI assessment note: “because we're going with this mono skew, uh, plan”

Q the incumbents there, and something that very much amused me when I was doing the research for this interview was, was the large incumbents actually state in their annual, official annual reports, this is, that they're not good at selling online. So, so, I'm intrigued. What are they doing wrong, and what are you doing, and what can be done to opt Optimize the online sales process, do you think?

A Well, I don't want to give them too many secrets on how to sell great online, but I think one of the things that's interesting for us is because we're going with this mono skew, uh, plan, it's very easy for us to communicate kind of first and foremost, our values as a brand and show the imagery. But then even on the product level, you know, right now we make a single product in multiple sizes and colorways, and we'll continue to do that. So we'll be launching some other sizes later in the year. Um, but we have an opportunity to go really deep, and I think that's what all the great, uh, new digital brands do, and I say for us, we're a digital brand because we don't really consider ourselves direct-to-consumer. I'm not really a big believer in the whole direct-to-consumer narrative in every single category. I think omni-channel retail, uh, for me is the way to go, and for others, um, but we really have this great opportunity to tell a great story, so that's great, and then go very deep on the product, so really show The functionality, the, the imagery, the interior, um, how it's going to work with the customer experience and, and the pairing moment and everything else. And I think that's, that's the opportunity there is to go so deep into it. You know, by the end of the experience, the friction has been removed, uh, as far as the purchase.

AI assessment note: “Well, I don't want to give them too many secrets on how to sell”

Q How did you deal with that? Although, you know, getting a no is an obvious part of every fundraising. How did you do that when you were so passionate about the product and the mission behind the company?

A I think the first ones are hard because, you know, you're rolling in what, you know, what you think is the most beautiful product and you say, how do you not see this? Because, you know, the industry in our case is a forty billion dollar a year business globally. So, It's not even really about creating in, in our case, uh, you know, an opportunity or creating a new category like you'd see in the fitness wearables seven or eight years ago. It's really about diverting demand to something that in your mind is clearly superior, but you just kind of have to step away from it. And, uh, one of the great things is there are many great investors in many cities and eventually just like dating or anything else, you, you find your match.

AI assessment note: “eventually just like dating or anything else, you, you find your match.”