The Exchanges

Q In, in the assets you're looking at now, are you seeing valuations reflect the macro? Because I think the biggest challenge for me is I'm a seed investor predominantly, Fleet investing is completely the same, if not slightly higher prices than ever before. The prices aren't relative.

A The, the private markets and the public markets are, can be very far apart in moments of, are generally very far apart in moments of transition. So, uh, I think public markets are reflective of the environment right now, and private are not, and there's a bunch of reasons for the, the private not being. One, People raised a lot of capital when capital was easy, and so having that capital, chasing those deals, that still exists. Number two, you don't need to be honest on valuation every day. There's no one forcing that, so if you have enough capital in a business, you would not go and get a valuation right now. Number three, everyone in the ecosystem is incentivized and able to maintain sort of pretend valuations. Meaning the, the investors want to keep their marks where they are. Their LPs actually want them to keep their marks where they are because they don't want to look bad. The companies want to keep the marks where they are because they want to retain the employees. And there's nobody in that ecosystem whose, whose job or responsibility is let's make this more accurate and more realistic. And that only happens when you, you're, you have to go access the capital markets and then tell, get somebody new into that story. You also have nobody in the, like, public companies also have short sellers, so the people who don't believe get to vote, in addition to the people who do be…

AI assessment note: “public markets are reflective of the environment right now, and private are not”

Q In, in the assets you're looking at now, are you seeing valuations reflect the macro? Because I think the biggest challenge for me is I'm a seed investor predominantly, Fleet investing is completely the same, if not slightly higher prices than ever before. The prices aren't relative.

A The, the private markets and the public markets are, can be very far apart in moments of, are generally very far apart in moments of transition. So, uh, I think public markets are reflective of the environment right now, and private are not, and there's a bunch of reasons for the, the private not being. One, People raised a lot of capital when capital was easy, and so having that capital, chasing those deals, that still exists. Number two, you don't need to be honest on valuation every day. There's no one forcing that, so if you have enough capital in a business, you would not go and get a valuation right now. Number three, everyone in the ecosystem is incentivized and able to maintain sort of pretend valuations. Meaning the, the investors want to keep their marks where they are. Their LPs actually want them to keep their marks where they are because they don't want to look bad. The companies want to keep the marks where they are because they want to retain the employees. And there's nobody in that ecosystem whose, whose job or responsibility is let's make this more accurate and more realistic. And that only happens when you, you're, you have to go access the capital markets and then tell, get somebody new into that story. You also have nobody in the, like, public companies also have short sellers, so the people who don't believe get to vote, in addition to the people who do be…

AI assessment note: “public markets are reflective of the environment right now, and private are not”

Q Can I, can I, can I just ask? Sorry, I'm too intrigued. I have so many people say like, oh, it's about values, and uh, and I'm like, well, everyone's values are kind of the same, aren't they? It's like trust, honesty, truth, hard work, integrity. Like, what, what's different?

A Yeah, so I, I pushed hard when we redid them at Angie to make them unique. So for example, the first one now at Angie is build lifelong customers. That changes a lot of decisions that you make in an organization. If you're trying to get a customer for one transaction, you can make a whole series of decisions, uh, to do that. And if you're trying to get a customer for life, you make different decisions in each of those situations. And what, what you really want, and this is, I've said to the organization, and, and I say repeatedly, The values should make you uncomfortable. Not always. I mean, but there should be times where they force uncomfortable decisions and uncomfortable discussions where you have to call out colleagues, not in a mean way, but where you have to call out colleagues and say, wait a minute, has this been through the values filter or not? Because to me, it seems like it hasn't been. And you're right. Things like integrity, like that's an obvious one, but things that build lifelong customers, there is different ways you'd prioritize a product roadmap. There are different features you'd release. There are different ways you'd communicate and present if you're trying to do that first. Again, in the example of Angie, it was previously customer first. Okay. Customer first. I get it. But then what's second and third and fourth? And when do you come back? Like build l…

AI assessment note: “So for example, the first one now at Angie is build lifelong customers.”

Q So my question, I, I really appreciate that, and I feel guilty turning this on you then, but like, are your two CEO ships inbuilt as minor, and how does that work then for you with the interplay?

A I have the time to do it. I've, I have colleagues at IAC who are, uh, highly capable of helping out in other areas, and they've stepped up to help. In particular, our CFO Chris Halpin, Barry Diller, the chairman, has stepped up in other areas to, to help, so that I have made time here. And, you know, there's, work-life balance is, is a challenge, and so it's definitely taken from, uh, away from personal life, but as I said, I love doing it. I enjoy, uh, Both the Angie business, and the Angie job, and the IAC business, and the IAC job, and I'm lucky that I get to do both, and I figure out how to make time for both, and I do.

AI assessment note: “In particular, our CFO Chris Halpin, Barry Diller, the chairman, has stepped up”

Q Can I, can I, can I just ask? Sorry, I'm too intrigued. I have so many people say like, oh, it's about values, and uh, and I'm like, well, everyone's values are kind of the same, aren't they? It's like trust, honesty, truth, hard work, integrity. Like, what, what's different?

A Yeah, so I, I pushed hard when we redid them at Angie to make them unique. So for example, the first one now at Angie is build lifelong customers. That changes a lot of decisions that you make in an organization. If you're trying to get a customer for one transaction, you can make a whole series of decisions, uh, to do that. And if you're trying to get a customer for life, you make different decisions in each of those situations. And what, what you really want, and this is, I've said to the organization, and, and I say repeatedly, The values should make you uncomfortable. Not always. I mean, but there should be times where they force uncomfortable decisions and uncomfortable discussions where you have to call out colleagues, not in a mean way, but where you have to call out colleagues and say, wait a minute, has this been through the values filter or not? Because to me, it seems like it hasn't been. And you're right. Things like integrity, like that's an obvious one, but things that build lifelong customers, there is different ways you'd prioritize a product roadmap. There are different features you'd release. There are different ways you'd communicate and present if you're trying to do that first. Again, in the example of Angie, it was previously customer first. Okay. Customer first. I get it. But then what's second and third and fourth? And when do you come back? Like build l…

AI assessment note: “I pushed hard when we redid them at Angie to make them unique.”

Q So my question, I, I really appreciate that, and I feel guilty turning this on you then, but like, are your two CEO ships inbuilt as minor, and how does that work then for you with the interplay?

A I have the time to do it. I've, I have colleagues at IAC who are, uh, highly capable of helping out in other areas, and they've stepped up to help. In particular, our CFO Chris Halpin, Barry Diller, the chairman, has stepped up in other areas to, to help, so that I have made time here. And, you know, there's, work-life balance is, is a challenge, and so it's definitely taken from, uh, away from personal life, but as I said, I love doing it. I enjoy, uh, Both the Angie business, and the Angie job, and the IAC business, and the IAC job, and I'm lucky that I get to do both, and I figure out how to make time for both, and I do.

AI assessment note: “In particular, our CFO Chris Halpin, Barry Diller, the chairman, has stepped up”

Q You mentioned earlier that we said about the role of money there, you mentioned earlier family, um, and your brothers and your father. Can I ask, how has your family impacted your mindset, impacted how you think as a leader today? And have there been some prominent takeaways or lessons from them? I loved what your father made you read out. But have there been some big takeaways?

A Well, yeah, I, I mentioned them. I didn't mention my mom yet, but another huge influence on me. My mom was and remains incredibly frugal and did a wonderful job forcing that upon me and my siblings in ways that, that did drive us. I mean, when we would go, uh, out to dinner, we would go to the food court at the mall and we would get One drink at the place that had free refills and then pour it around and then go get a refill and, and pour it around to each other. And like, wherever there was a deal to be had, we were, we had to get the absolute best deal. You could not possibly pay full price for anything. When we went to a restaurant, you can never get soft drinks at a restaurant because the margins were too high on soft drinks. You could never get the add-ons because the add-ons would, would add up too quickly. And there was a section of the menu where the prices were too high, where you couldn't look at that section. You could only look at the other section, like. Those were, and this is, I'm not suggesting we had any hardships in, in that sense, but that was building these values, which is, what do I have to do to be able to look at that other section of the menu, or what do I have to do to be able to, to order a soft drink or whatever, and, and those were the values that, that we had growing up, and that had a real impression on us.

AI assessment note: “My mom was and remains incredibly frugal and did a wonderful job forcing that upon me”

Q So I think one thing that I loved about your background was also like duration. Yeah, you've been at IAC now for 20 years, since 2003, I think it is, and so when we look back, like, that's, it's rare to have such duration, especially today, when, if you look at one to two elements where your career really propelled within IAC internally, what were they, do you think?

A It's a series of things that build on top of each other, but if I was probably gonna narrow it to two traits, maybe. One is, I think, hard work. I, I have generally, uh, and continue to try to work hard. I try to, to know more and learn more, and that doesn't mean hoarding information. It's very important in an organization that everybody shares information and uses that information as currency valued internally against people externally. Uh, but doing the work to have the information, understand things better, I think is, is, uh, really important. And I, I generally did that going back to, you know, individual deals where I'd try and learn everything when I was doing mergers and acquisitions, it was learn everything about a company that we were, uh, uh, considering acquiring, reading all of their public filings, reading all their transcripts, reading everything that they've published to really understand it inside and out. And I think that that was important in terms of hard work and then having opinions. My opinions were definitely not always right, but Having opinions, I think, is a really important thing to advancing in an organization, because you, you stand out with opinions. You know, you, you take a position, and taking a position is an important thing to do.

AI assessment note: “if I was probably gonna narrow it to two traits, maybe. One is... hard work”

Q I got asked this one. What behavior traits or attitudes do you think have been most dangerous that this generation have lived through only in the best of times have picked up? What are the most dangerous traits?

A I think the most dangerous one, and This is the same thing we do with our kids, and I'm certainly guilty of it. The two biggest sort of macro events, macro finance events of the last decade or so, or more than a decade, I should say, was 2008, the great financial crisis, and, uh, the pandemic. Those were two very profound ones, right? In both of those cases, there was a, uh, government bail. And I think the government did The right thing and, and save jobs and save the economy and did, did really important things in that. But the lesson that's learned is there's a bailout. So whatever you do, there's a bailout. And that's, you know, not always available and not always true. You know, I'm, I'm all for long-term optimism, but I think that, that the level of entitlement that we see in, in the, the younger generation of that year or those years is, is I think related to That a general bull market supported by when things go wrong, don't worry, uh, somebody else comes to the rescue externally.

AI assessment note: “the lesson that's learned is there's a bailout. So whatever you do, there's a bailout.”

Q said about ambition and drive, final one before a quick fire. The biggest commonality that everyone told me about you, Joey, was your Unwavering persistence, your inability to give up, whether it's a bunker shot or business. Um, my question to you is, there is sometimes a time to give up. How do you think about when to give up versus when to continue and push through the hard times?

A Yeah, it's a very important question in a lot of the things that, that we do. You got to go back to what is your thesis and do you have a viable thesis that you believe in? It can't be because you believed in it previously. It has to be, do you believe in it today? We've told this story a lot with a business that we have called Dot Dash, it's now merged with Meredith, it's called Dot Dash Meredith, but we originated that Evolve from what was originally an acquisition called about.com. When we bought about.com, we had a thesis. It was going to be part of ask.com actually. And we had a view on what we could do with it. And Neil Vogel, who was running that business, had a plan, whatever, went out with the plan, bombed. Came back in, he said, well, that plan bombed. And he said, uh, but I've got a new plan and here's why I think it's going to work. And everything he said makes sense, made sense to us. And we said, okay, go do that. Bombed. Comes back in, he says, that one bombed, but I got a plan. Now this one's gonna make a lot of sense, and here's why it's going to work. Everything he said made sense, and we said, okay, go do that. I think, I can't remember if it was the third or fourth try. I think in one of them I said, you know, we're not gonna, I think after the third try I said, you know, we're not gonna have a fourth try, uh, on this. But whatever it was, the, the, the, the…

AI assessment note: “You got to go back to what is your thesis and do you have a viable thesis”

Q We mentioned duration there and like the length of time you've been at IAC. As I said, we don't see that very often today. When you advise grads, your children even, about coming out of school into the workforce, what do you advise them given the experience that you've had?

A A little bit like we were talking about before we got started here, but if you're doing something that you really love that excites you, Then you can do it for much longer. It doesn't mean you don't have to do anything uncomfortable. It doesn't mean you don't have to do anything that's challenging or, but if you're doing something you love and that excites you, it just feels different. You're, you're willing to do it. Uh, and if you find that, and it's very sometimes hard for people to find it, you're lucky to find it, but do that. And you sort of, to, to, to help people find it, you ask them, well, what are the kind of books you read? What are the kind of Websites you read or magazines or, or whatever it is, what do you list? What are the podcasts you listen to? And you pick up a theme, maybe it's sports, maybe it's business, maybe it's art, maybe it's marine biology, whatever it is. If there's something that really fascinates you, you're, even if you haven't identified it, your, your actions are identifying it. Uh, and so like the, the books that I read growing up where not a lot of other. People my age read these books, but they were business books and I Loved reading the business books, and that was the kind of thing that, that fascinated me, and that's what led me into this kind of career, and made it so I could stay a while and do it a long time, because I, because I love…

AI assessment note: “if you're doing something that you really love that excites you”

Q Wow, so you mentioned there about doing what you love. It's not always easy. Um, I think people often look at the shows with me, and they're like, oh, it just worked, and it didn't. Um, when you look back at IAC, what was the most challenging period?

A I'd say we're going through a challenging period right now, in a sense. Um, It's, it's always, and we've been through this, a similar period in the past. It is when there is a big negative adjustment in the surrounding environment. Everything changes very quickly. Valuations change really quickly, which is probably what's most acutely felt, but everything changes very quickly. Your ability to generate revenue changes very quickly. Your ability to manage your expenses changes very quickly. And your ability to get credit for things changes very quickly. And when those things happen, it's a, it's a big adjustment. It's a big adjustment because one, just dealing with those things individually is hard, but two, the organization isn't used to it. Meaning if, for people who joined the organization in, you know, the prior 10 years, let's say, it was nothing but up. Now, no organization goes up steadily forever, but they were in an environment where for 10 years they saw nothing but up, and so you can Develop habits and develop points of view that, that are related to that, and that are unhealthy, and that need to be unlearned, and that need to be changed, and so managing that kind of change among people in an organization is a hard thing to pull off.

AI assessment note: “I'd say we're going through a challenging period right now, in a sense.”

Q You mentioned, like, changes in a lot of different things, but you mentioned changes in valuation. Um, I'm intrigued because you said before to me that there's no such thing as value investing. Um, as a reader of Benjamin Graham's book, I was naturally intrigued. So why is there no such thing as value investing?

A Well, what I mean by that is people use the word value investing to be, to mean buying things at low multiples or buying things cheap or deep value or whatever. Uh, and I don't, that is a way to invest, but value investing also can be buying something at a very expensive multiple or a very high, I shouldn't say expensive, I should say a very high multiple, but that there's value there because of what you believe in the growth and, and the future. It's, I mean, I may be sensitive to this because people say IAC is a value investor, and it doesn't bother me as a term, but so is, I don't know, Pick a name of, of a VC or a growth equity fund that pays very high prices for growth things. Like, they think they're a value investor. They are a value investor. They see value there relative to what the, they believe the future value is. And, and I'd call them a value investor too. And for us, we do both. So we are a value investor, but we're not saying we have to buy everything really cheap. We have to buy as a, uh, you know, As an absolute multiple, we could pay big multiples for things where we see big value, and, and that can work out too.

AI assessment note: “what I mean by that is people use the word value investing to be”

Q We, we've spoken a lot about kind of value. In terms of like digging a layer deeper to kind of actual value creation, I've heard you say before, simplification is the most powerful tool in value creation. What did you mean by this statement, Joey?

A We, simplifying is our margin in all of our business. That's what entitles you to margin. If you take your customers, a lot of our businesses have customers on two sides. We have marketplace businesses where there's a supply and demand side, and both of them are our customers in a sense. Your job in the middle, even if it's not a marketplace business, is simplification. You are simplifying something on behalf of your customers, and they are paying you a margin in order to do that. The more you simplify, the more margin, uh, you're entitled to, because that's how you create value for your customers. Uh, but simplification also goes into, to, to well beyond to simplifying the product for your customers. It's like, simpler pricing is easier for people to sell. Simpler Decks are easy. Presentations are easier for people around you to understand and appreciate. Everything, when you simplify, when we have any process online where we're trying to sell something, anytime you take a step out of that process, you increase conversion. You're simplifying. And if you use that as a tool, there is not a moment in business where you can't think about that as a improvement opportunity and, and yield value from it.

AI assessment note: “The more you simplify, the more margin, uh, you're entitled to”

Q on from Toma Bravo yesterday, actually, and he argued that, you know, bluntly, this is the new normal, and actually, it's relatively reasonable. We saw the result of quantitative easing and, you know, increased capital supplies, as you said, from government intervention. Um, and this is actually not bad. It's reasonable, and it's the new normal. Do you agree with that statement, that this feels reasonable in the new normal?

A I do agree with that, yeah. I, I think that this is, yeah, we are where we are right now, and now we need to grow from here. There's no snapback, you know, even if you say, earnings take time to grow. Earnings don't typically, at large, grow in multiples. They grow in, uh, You know, increments, percentages, and when that happens, markets grow and valuations grow, but there's no catalyst that I don't think anyone can define, which is multiples are going to expand soon. You need interest rates to come down, you need tax rates to come down, and then things like that, like multiples can expand, but I think we are naturally where we are, and I think it's fine and appropriate.

AI assessment note: “I do agree with that, yeah.”

Q fearful when others are greedy. The trouble is, if you want to be greedy when others are fearful, you need other people, if you're reliant on cash, to share that greed, and what I'm seeing now is there's a lot of opportunities, but people aren't willing to fund them because they share everyone else's fear. How do you think about having the courage to be greedy when others are fearful?

A Well, you've, you've Hit on a very important point, which is you need capital to be greedy when others are fearful. And that means that you need to have been preparing for that moment in advance. Uh, now no one can time those things right, but you need to have been operating in a way where you have the ability in the capital to, to be greedy in those moments. And that's a very hard thing to do, but you're right. Everybody right now is talking about, oh, there's so many opportunities. There's so many things that I want to buy. I just don't have enough. I just don't have enough capital to do it. Well, of course, that's what's happening. When capital is scarce, things are cheap, and when capital is abundant, things are expensive. Where the, the opportunity is, is when you've built up capital and been able to hold on to it through those periods to, to be able to take advantage of the moments to be greedy.

AI assessment note: “you need to have been preparing for that moment in advance”

Q So what, what happens to, when we look at the generation of SPAC companies, what happens to them? Do they get taken private at much more realistic valuations? Do they?

A Maybe, or they grow out of it, but I mean, one of the problems which I, Didn't appreciate until somebody who, who knows this well said it to me. It was Henry Ellenbogen who said it to me. And this was, he predicted this three years ago or whatever it was very early in the SPAC thing. He said, the problem is going to be there's only a handful of investors who invest in companies, public investors who invest in companies of this size. And to be a thoughtful investor, obviously it takes time to do work and analyze a company. The volume of companies coming into this size way exceeds the capacity of people to analyze and, and invest in those companies in the public markets. So what, what happened is they just have no home. So, which means they'll either have to grow out of that, uh, by being big enough that people have to pay attention to it, or yeah, they'll probably go back private and, you know, try and work things out there.

AI assessment note: “yeah, they'll probably go back private and, you know, try and work things out”

Q So I think one thing that I loved about your background was also like duration. Yeah, you've been at IAC now for 20 years, since 2003, I think it is, and so when we look back, like, that's, it's rare to have such duration, especially today, when, if you look at one to two elements where your career really propelled within IAC internally, what were they, do you think?

A It's a series of things that build on top of each other, but if I was probably gonna narrow it to two traits, maybe. One is, I think, hard work. I, I have generally, uh, and continue to try to work hard. I try to, to know more and learn more, and that doesn't mean hoarding information. It's very important in an organization that everybody shares information and uses that information as currency valued internally against people externally. Uh, but doing the work to have the information, understand things better, I think is, is, uh, really important. And I, I generally did that going back to, you know, individual deals where I'd try and learn everything when I was doing mergers and acquisitions, it was learn everything about a company that we were, uh, uh, considering acquiring, reading all of their public filings, reading all their transcripts, reading everything that they've published to really understand it inside and out. And I think that that was important in terms of hard work and then having opinions. My opinions were definitely not always right, but Having opinions, I think, is a really important thing to advancing in an organization, because you, you stand out with opinions. You know, you, you take a position, and taking a position is an important thing to do.

AI assessment note: “if I was probably gonna narrow it to two traits, maybe. One is... hard work”

Q I got asked this one. What behavior traits or attitudes do you think have been most dangerous that this generation have lived through only in the best of times have picked up? What are the most dangerous traits?

A I think the most dangerous one, and This is the same thing we do with our kids, and I'm certainly guilty of it. The two biggest sort of macro events, macro finance events of the last decade or so, or more than a decade, I should say, was 2008, the great financial crisis, and, uh, the pandemic. Those were two very profound ones, right? In both of those cases, there was a, uh, government bail. And I think the government did The right thing and, and save jobs and save the economy and did, did really important things in that. But the lesson that's learned is there's a bailout. So whatever you do, there's a bailout. And that's, you know, not always available and not always true. You know, I'm, I'm all for long-term optimism, but I think that, that the level of entitlement that we see in, in the, the younger generation of that year or those years is, is I think related to That a general bull market supported by when things go wrong, don't worry, uh, somebody else comes to the rescue externally.

AI assessment note: “the level of entitlement that we see in, in the, the younger generation”

Q What do you think are the biggest mistakes that people make that you see around you in failing to simplify?

A Taking on too many projects at once. That's a huge one. Um, you know, people say, oh, I mean, they're, all people cared about, if we go back to the prior market, all people cared about was TAM, Total Addressable Market. And they said, my TAM is so big that I can do so much in this TAM, and I have to get all of this TAM, and I have to launch all of these products to tackle the TAM. That mistake was spreading yourself too thin, taking on too many competitors or markets at once, and I, we saw a lot of people do that when they had too much capital to overextend themselves and complexify rather than simplify.

AI assessment note: “Taking on too many projects at once. That's a huge one.”

Q said about ambition and drive, final one before a quick fire. The biggest commonality that everyone told me about you, Joey, was your Unwavering persistence, your inability to give up, whether it's a bunker shot or business. Um, my question to you is, there is sometimes a time to give up. How do you think about when to give up versus when to continue and push through the hard times?

A Yeah, it's a very important question in a lot of the things that, that we do. You got to go back to what is your thesis and do you have a viable thesis that you believe in? It can't be because you believed in it previously. It has to be, do you believe in it today? We've told this story a lot with a business that we have called Dot Dash, it's now merged with Meredith, it's called Dot Dash Meredith, but we originated that Evolve from what was originally an acquisition called about.com. When we bought about.com, we had a thesis. It was going to be part of ask.com actually. And we had a view on what we could do with it. And Neil Vogel, who was running that business, had a plan, whatever, went out with the plan, bombed. Came back in, he said, well, that plan bombed. And he said, uh, but I've got a new plan and here's why I think it's going to work. And everything he said makes sense, made sense to us. And we said, okay, go do that. Bombed. Comes back in, he says, that one bombed, but I got a plan. Now this one's gonna make a lot of sense, and here's why it's going to work. Everything he said made sense, and we said, okay, go do that. I think, I can't remember if it was the third or fourth try. I think in one of them I said, you know, we're not gonna, I think after the third try I said, you know, we're not gonna have a fourth try, uh, on this. But whatever it was, the, the, the, the…

AI assessment note: “You got to go back to what is your thesis and do you have a viable thesis”

Q Wow, so you mentioned there about doing what you love. It's not always easy. Um, I think people often look at the shows with me, and they're like, oh, it just worked, and it didn't. Um, when you look back at IAC, what was the most challenging period?

A I'd say we're going through a challenging period right now, in a sense. Um, It's, it's always, and we've been through this, a similar period in the past. It is when there is a big negative adjustment in the surrounding environment. Everything changes very quickly. Valuations change really quickly, which is probably what's most acutely felt, but everything changes very quickly. Your ability to generate revenue changes very quickly. Your ability to manage your expenses changes very quickly. And your ability to get credit for things changes very quickly. And when those things happen, it's a, it's a big adjustment. It's a big adjustment because one, just dealing with those things individually is hard, but two, the organization isn't used to it. Meaning if, for people who joined the organization in, you know, the prior 10 years, let's say, it was nothing but up. Now, no organization goes up steadily forever, but they were in an environment where for 10 years they saw nothing but up, and so you can Develop habits and develop points of view that, that are related to that, and that are unhealthy, and that need to be unlearned, and that need to be changed, and so managing that kind of change among people in an organization is a hard thing to pull off.

AI assessment note: “I'd say we're going through a challenging period right now, in a sense.”

Q You mentioned, like, changes in a lot of different things, but you mentioned changes in valuation. Um, I'm intrigued because you said before to me that there's no such thing as value investing. Um, as a reader of Benjamin Graham's book, I was naturally intrigued. So why is there no such thing as value investing?

A Well, what I mean by that is people use the word value investing to be, to mean buying things at low multiples or buying things cheap or deep value or whatever. Uh, and I don't, that is a way to invest, but value investing also can be buying something at a very expensive multiple or a very high, I shouldn't say expensive, I should say a very high multiple, but that there's value there because of what you believe in the growth and, and the future. It's, I mean, I may be sensitive to this because people say IAC is a value investor, and it doesn't bother me as a term, but so is, I don't know, Pick a name of, of a VC or a growth equity fund that pays very high prices for growth things. Like, they think they're a value investor. They are a value investor. They see value there relative to what the, they believe the future value is. And, and I'd call them a value investor too. And for us, we do both. So we are a value investor, but we're not saying we have to buy everything really cheap. We have to buy as a, uh, you know, As an absolute multiple, we could pay big multiples for things where we see big value, and, and that can work out too.

AI assessment note: “what I mean by that is people use the word value investing to mean buying”

Q on from Toma Bravo yesterday, actually, and he argued that, you know, bluntly, this is the new normal, and actually, it's relatively reasonable. We saw the result of quantitative easing and, you know, increased capital supplies, as you said, from government intervention. Um, and this is actually not bad. It's reasonable, and it's the new normal. Do you agree with that statement, that this feels reasonable in the new normal?

A I do agree with that, yeah. I, I think that this is, yeah, we are where we are right now, and now we need to grow from here. There's no snapback, you know, even if you say, earnings take time to grow. Earnings don't typically, at large, grow in multiples. They grow in, uh, You know, increments, percentages, and when that happens, markets grow and valuations grow, but there's no catalyst that I don't think anyone can define, which is multiples are going to expand soon. You need interest rates to come down, you need tax rates to come down, and then things like that, like multiples can expand, but I think we are naturally where we are, and I think it's fine and appropriate.

AI assessment note: “I do agree with that, yeah. I, I think that this is”

Q We, we've spoken a lot about kind of value. In terms of like digging a layer deeper to kind of actual value creation, I've heard you say before, simplification is the most powerful tool in value creation. What did you mean by this statement, Joey?

A We, simplifying is our margin in all of our business. That's what entitles you to margin. If you take your customers, a lot of our businesses have customers on two sides. We have marketplace businesses where there's a supply and demand side, and both of them are our customers in a sense. Your job in the middle, even if it's not a marketplace business, is simplification. You are simplifying something on behalf of your customers, and they are paying you a margin in order to do that. The more you simplify, the more margin, uh, you're entitled to, because that's how you create value for your customers. Uh, but simplification also goes into, to, to well beyond to simplifying the product for your customers. It's like, simpler pricing is easier for people to sell. Simpler Decks are easy. Presentations are easier for people around you to understand and appreciate. Everything, when you simplify, when we have any process online where we're trying to sell something, anytime you take a step out of that process, you increase conversion. You're simplifying. And if you use that as a tool, there is not a moment in business where you can't think about that as a improvement opportunity and, and yield value from it.

AI assessment note: “You are simplifying something on behalf of your customers, and they are paying you a margin”

Q We mentioned kind of opportunities that one should or could take. An opportunity that many took over the last couple of years was to SPAC, um, obviously an alternative mechanism of going public. And when you look at SPACs today, I think, like, 98% are trading abysmally below, you know, trading price originally. Why did they not work as a mechanism, Joey?

A There's a bunch of concepts in the SPAC that are flawed, but the most underrated in, in my mind, but also the biggest flaw was the way the SPAC works. And we looked at this with one of our, uh, companies that we're involved in. The way it works is you, you build a company for as long as it takes you to build a company, you get it to a position where you think it, it can maybe endure the public markets. And then in that critical moment, You give somebody else who doesn't know your company at all a free option on effectively selling that company to the public for three months. That is completely insane. That does not make sense, I don't think, for any great company. It can make sense for other things, but I don't think it makes sense for any great company. It can make sense for, uh, an idea where you need somebody to help go fund an idea for you, so these, these Things, actually, a lot of the things that went out early that are sort of ideas are a little bit more than an advanced idea, but have no business yet, haven't built a business around it. That's just saying we need help fundraising, go figure out how to fundraise this for, for us so that we can continue building this idea into something that may be a business. But if you have a business, you'd be crazy to give somebody a three month or multi month option on Selling your story to a new set of investors.

AI assessment note: “You give somebody else who doesn't know your company at all a free option”

Q So what, what happens to, when we look at the generation of SPAC companies, what happens to them? Do they get taken private at much more realistic valuations? Do they?

A Maybe, or they grow out of it, but I mean, one of the problems which I, Didn't appreciate until somebody who, who knows this well said it to me. It was Henry Ellenbogen who said it to me. And this was, he predicted this three years ago or whatever it was very early in the SPAC thing. He said, the problem is going to be there's only a handful of investors who invest in companies, public investors who invest in companies of this size. And to be a thoughtful investor, obviously it takes time to do work and analyze a company. The volume of companies coming into this size way exceeds the capacity of people to analyze and, and invest in those companies in the public markets. So what, what happened is they just have no home. So, which means they'll either have to grow out of that, uh, by being big enough that people have to pay attention to it, or yeah, they'll probably go back private and, you know, try and work things out there.

AI assessment note: “they'll either have to grow out of that... or yeah, they'll probably go back private”

Q You mentioned earlier that we said about the role of money there, you mentioned earlier family, um, and your brothers and your father. Can I ask, how has your family impacted your mindset, impacted how you think as a leader today? And have there been some prominent takeaways or lessons from them? I loved what your father made you read out. But have there been some big takeaways?

A Well, yeah, I, I mentioned them. I didn't mention my mom yet, but another huge influence on me. My mom was and remains incredibly frugal and did a wonderful job forcing that upon me and my siblings in ways that, that did drive us. I mean, when we would go, uh, out to dinner, we would go to the food court at the mall and we would get One drink at the place that had free refills and then pour it around and then go get a refill and, and pour it around to each other. And like, wherever there was a deal to be had, we were, we had to get the absolute best deal. You could not possibly pay full price for anything. When we went to a restaurant, you can never get soft drinks at a restaurant because the margins were too high on soft drinks. You could never get the add-ons because the add-ons would, would add up too quickly. And there was a section of the menu where the prices were too high, where you couldn't look at that section. You could only look at the other section, like. Those were, and this is, I'm not suggesting we had any hardships in, in that sense, but that was building these values, which is, what do I have to do to be able to look at that other section of the menu, or what do I have to do to be able to, to order a soft drink or whatever, and, and those were the values that, that we had growing up, and that had a real impression on us.

AI assessment note: “that was building these values... those were the values that that we had growing up”

Q We mentioned duration there and like the length of time you've been at IAC. As I said, we don't see that very often today. When you advise grads, your children even, about coming out of school into the workforce, what do you advise them given the experience that you've had?

A A little bit like we were talking about before we got started here, but if you're doing something that you really love that excites you, Then you can do it for much longer. It doesn't mean you don't have to do anything uncomfortable. It doesn't mean you don't have to do anything that's challenging or, but if you're doing something you love and that excites you, it just feels different. You're, you're willing to do it. Uh, and if you find that, and it's very sometimes hard for people to find it, you're lucky to find it, but do that. And you sort of, to, to, to help people find it, you ask them, well, what are the kind of books you read? What are the kind of Websites you read or magazines or, or whatever it is, what do you list? What are the podcasts you listen to? And you pick up a theme, maybe it's sports, maybe it's business, maybe it's art, maybe it's marine biology, whatever it is. If there's something that really fascinates you, you're, even if you haven't identified it, your, your actions are identifying it. Uh, and so like the, the books that I read growing up where not a lot of other. People my age read these books, but they were business books and I Loved reading the business books, and that was the kind of thing that, that fascinated me, and that's what led me into this kind of career, and made it so I could stay a while and do it a long time, because I, because I love…

AI assessment note: “if you're doing something that you really love that excites you, Then you can”

Q What do you think are the biggest misunderstandings or misnomers that people have or carry towards SPACs?

A I still think the biggest one is nobody understands this, this, or not nobody. Few appreciated the reality that you're giving away an option on your company for an extended period of time, and it became so clear, it becomes crystal clear in volatile markets. But, and it's also like, oh, it, well, like options are, it's a, it's sort of a one-way option, which is if things are going up, you gave away the option too cheap. If things are going down, you get it back. And so it's, it's in every case, Worse for you. But there was a good that came out of SPACs, which is a lot of these companies that did SPAC now have to confront the public markets, now confront more sort of realistic, uh, valuations, and I think that's an opportunity for people with capital to find real opportunities.

AI assessment note: “Few appreciated the reality that you're giving away an option on your company”