The Exchanges

Q pleased you said there about the leverage you have maybe from being cash flow positive, especially from that timing standpoint, because when we chatted before, you said to me, Joel, not even bootstrapping, but building a product that people love and pay for. Can I ask, what's the thinking behind this? And how do you think about when was the right time to really double down and raise VC funds?

A Yeah, so our experience here at VSCO is a little unique in that, you know, I think initially we thought we wanted to raise, but we couldn't. Two non-technical co-founders, first-time founders, and so we launched a workshop that people paid for, and then we built a desktop product that sold for a 119 dollars, and, you know, we were profitable out of the gate. And so we grew this business for two and a half years in, 43 employees before we ever raised. And when we did raise, it wasn't a traditional seed or series A, really much more of a growth round. And so, you know, I think our situation is unique, but I do think for anyone out there, you need to know why. Just the press around we raised or having that capital can actually be more of a burden than it is a help. And so having a business, knowing the need, we ultimately raised because the business was Scaling. The engagement on the platform was scaling, and we saw the rise of our server costs, and saw the writing on the wall that we were not going to be able to be profitable for much longer, and we needed capital to scale the business to get it to a place where we could do so much more. So I think, ultimately, it really comes down to doing what's right in your situation, and each one is completely unique.

AI assessment note: “we ultimately raised because the business was Scaling. The engagement on the platform was scaling”

Q pleased you mentioned about the flight there, and kind of your Thought process transition, because I do want to kind of finish before we move into the quickfire on the element of you, the founder and CEO. So I'm intrigued. How do you think about personal development today? And there are some areas that you really hone in on and spend the most time maybe thinking about and working on.

A In a way, someone asked me the other day, what, what are your hobbies? And as I paused, and really my hobby is personal development. I love learning. You know, I read constantly, always trying to surround myself with People that are better than I am and more intelligent or skilled in areas where I'm not. And I just have that thirst for growth. And I read a book called essentialism by Greg McCohen. That was really impactful for me too, on this front. You know, I focus on investing first in myself, then in taking care of my family and finally in running VSCO. And it's in that order of priority, because if I haven't taken care of myself, I can't take care of my family. And if I haven't taken care of my family, I cannot show up to work to be the best version of myself. And so on taking care of myself, I'm focused on staying healthy through eating, sleeping, exercise. For my family, it's around increasing the quantity of quality time. And then with VSCO, it's with moving with confidence. How do I lead and really help VSCO move with confidence towards accomplishing our mission? So that's been a huge area of just focus. That's what I do. Everything else, I either say no or I delegate.

AI assessment note: “I focus on investing first in myself, then in taking care of my family”

Q pleased you said there about the leverage you have maybe from being cash flow positive, especially from that timing standpoint, because when we chatted before, you said to me, Joel, not even bootstrapping, but building a product that people love and pay for. Can I ask, what's the thinking behind this? And how do you think about when was the right time to really double down and raise VC funds?

A Yeah, so our experience here at VSCO is a little unique in that, you know, I think initially we thought we wanted to raise, but we couldn't. Two non-technical co-founders, first-time founders, and so we launched a workshop that people paid for, and then we built a desktop product that sold for a 119 dollars, and, you know, we were profitable out of the gate. And so we grew this business for two and a half years in, 43 employees before we ever raised. And when we did raise, it wasn't a traditional seed or series A, really much more of a growth round. And so, you know, I think our situation is unique, but I do think for anyone out there, you need to know why. Just the press around we raised or having that capital can actually be more of a burden than it is a help. And so having a business, knowing the need, we ultimately raised because the business was Scaling. The engagement on the platform was scaling, and we saw the rise of our server costs, and saw the writing on the wall that we were not going to be able to be profitable for much longer, and we needed capital to scale the business to get it to a place where we could do so much more. So I think, ultimately, it really comes down to doing what's right in your situation, and each one is completely unique.

AI assessment note: “we ultimately raised because the business was Scaling... we saw the rise of our server costs”

Q behind your why there, but now we know why we want to raise. If we kind of go to the subsequent step, it's a case of how do we choose the investment partner for us? I'm really interested. You chose, obviously, we mentioned Ryan earlier. You chose Excel. How do you think about the element of investor selection, and kind of, what's the top considerations for you in this process?

A So I had, actually, our other kind of first investor, Adam Ross of Goldcrest Capital, was someone that actually brought on before we had any investors. Someone introduced us, and really was just drawn to how down-to-earth he was, and really helped me think through investors, who to think about adding on, because kind of back to this Visco in, you know, late 20 13. This is post the Instagram sale to Facebook. Mobile photos are hot. You can imagine we're profitable, large company. Everyone wanted in on Visco. And so Adam really helped me kind of think through how to build who the investors were in Visco and where we really landed. And what I'm so thankful for was not focusing on people that would change the way Visco operated or change Visco's vision, but really come alongside Visco. And the characteristic that Ryan embodies and that Adam and then David Glenn, the Glenn capital came in series B is all three of them are phenomenal listeners and they are, have helped VSCO be a better version of itself, not VSCO be something that's not. And so for me, that has been the key of what I've looked at. Someone that has value to add beyond their capital, because quite honestly, everyone has capital. It's, it really is not a differentiator anymore at all. And so you're looking for that other factor, that It thing. And so that's been a big part for us. And I, the other thing I'd throw out th…

AI assessment note: “Someone that has value to add beyond their capital, because quite honestly, everyone has capital.”

Q we and the collective you as a team and how you think about that mission. I do want to touch on the leadership team. I know we share a joy and passion for kind of leadership team dynamics, obvious why I'm still single. So what does leadership team dynamics really look like to you, Joel? And how have you really seen that play out in your experiences and what works?

A So I believe this is my primary role as a CEO is to build the team and grow the team. And Organizational health is everything, and this was about three years ago that really made this transition as my focus as CEO, being around building the team, the team dynamics, because ultimately, how we work is equally important to what we do. That insight was really big for me, and I'm really thankful we had brought on a head of people. Her name is Katie Shields, and at first, you know, something I thought we just had to do as we were scaling the business, ultimately been just Extremely impactful to the business and helping me reshape not only Visco, but myself and my role as CEO. So that dynamic, I think ultimately the key is, is that if you have dynamics of a leadership team in which each other is trying to help the other individual be the best version of themselves collectively as a group, we're able to work together and do the same for the entire org. We talk a lot about servant leadership and that really is that mindset of we're better together. And we're better if we are really collaborating, working with each other, understanding each other's strengths and weaknesses. So that's really the focus that I take with that from the leadership dynamic.

AI assessment note: “if you have dynamics of a leadership team in which each other is trying to help”

Q the subsequent questions, because you mentioned that the alignment of the multiple different components within the process between the customers, the LPs, the investors. I'm super interested because when we chatted before the show, I You said you have to align your mission to your business model. Can I ask Joel, what did you mean by this, and how does that maybe change how you think and operate with VSCO?

A Well, so this was an insight that Greg and I both had in starting VSCO, and that is kind of goes back to that by creators for creators, where we always felt that someone else's gain was at our expense as a creative. They either sold us products, but there really wasn't a relationship. They weren't adding value back into us. They were kind of hooking us into something that we Had to do in order to run our business or taking our work and using it for other gains, but not delivering the value back to us. And so we set up and said that whatever we did with VSCO, we wanted a business model in which we had that direct relationship with the consumer. We built something of value that they were willing to pay us for. The subscription part of it grew over time where we really started to kind of see that we wanted to move that way. And it took us a little bit of time to get there. But what I do love about ultimately subscription model and really believe Is the future for most every business is because it's not only building something of value, but it's continuing to deliver value and a service that people are willing to not just pay for, but continue to pay for and renew. And it aligns so perfectly. And I think the beauty of it is, is that as you scale, there's not this tension between your business model and your mission where for many companies, your business model is the means to fund …

AI assessment note: “there's not this tension between your business model and your mission”

Q the subsequent questions, because you mentioned that the alignment of the multiple different components within the process between the customers, the LPs, the investors. I'm super interested because when we chatted before the show, I You said you have to align your mission to your business model. Can I ask Joel, what did you mean by this, and how does that maybe change how you think and operate with VSCO?

A Well, so this was an insight that Greg and I both had in starting VSCO, and that is kind of goes back to that by creators for creators, where we always felt that someone else's gain was at our expense as a creative. They either sold us products, but there really wasn't a relationship. They weren't adding value back into us. They were kind of hooking us into something that we Had to do in order to run our business or taking our work and using it for other gains, but not delivering the value back to us. And so we set up and said that whatever we did with VSCO, we wanted a business model in which we had that direct relationship with the consumer. We built something of value that they were willing to pay us for. The subscription part of it grew over time where we really started to kind of see that we wanted to move that way. And it took us a little bit of time to get there. But what I do love about ultimately subscription model and really believe Is the future for most every business is because it's not only building something of value, but it's continuing to deliver value and a service that people are willing to not just pay for, but continue to pay for and renew. And it aligns so perfectly. And I think the beauty of it is, is that as you scale, there's not this tension between your business model and your mission where for many companies, your business model is the means to fund …

AI assessment note: “there's not this tension between your business model and your mission”

Q So on the flip side of the table then, if kind of that's what works and that's where you've seen it really be optimal, if you'd go on the other side of the table, what have been some of the core challenges maybe in terms of building and scaling that leadership team for you at VSCO? Have there been any barriers where you really struggled maybe?

A Oh, absolutely. I think To get a company off the ground from zero to one is a very different stage. And for us that we're on the leadership team, and we actually didn't even call ourselves a leadership team. It was just those that were the executives at Disco at the time. It was really, we all had our areas of ownership. We all put our heads down and just went and did it and really characterized by hard work. Each of us rolled up our sleeves. We got it done, but there came a time where we needed to scale beyond ourselves. And that was really a difficult transition, but one that has been extremely fruitful. And it really, for me, kind of that aha moment, I sat in a fireside chat and there was a series of CEOs that were talking about how dysfunctional their teams were. And then there was a couple that were talking about just how amazing their leadership team was. One of them mentioned, you know, for me, it was the moment I read five dysfunctions of a team and just really then invested in kind of the first team principle. Like, tell you what, on that flight home, I read that book two days later, we were at our first offsite, and really started to form together this first team principle, where what I mean by that is that our team is not, I'm the head of engineering, my team's not all of engineering, my team is the leadership team. Working together in that lens, you know, it was a t…

AI assessment note: “there came a time where we needed to scale beyond ourselves. And that was really a difficult transition”

Q pleased you mentioned about the flight there, and kind of your Thought process transition, because I do want to kind of finish before we move into the quickfire on the element of you, the founder and CEO. So I'm intrigued. How do you think about personal development today? And there are some areas that you really hone in on and spend the most time maybe thinking about and working on.

A In a way, someone asked me the other day, what, what are your hobbies? And as I paused, and really my hobby is personal development. I love learning. You know, I read constantly, always trying to surround myself with People that are better than I am and more intelligent or skilled in areas where I'm not. And I just have that thirst for growth. And I read a book called essentialism by Greg McCohen. That was really impactful for me too, on this front. You know, I focus on investing first in myself, then in taking care of my family and finally in running VSCO. And it's in that order of priority, because if I haven't taken care of myself, I can't take care of my family. And if I haven't taken care of my family, I cannot show up to work to be the best version of myself. And so on taking care of myself, I'm focused on staying healthy through eating, sleeping, exercise. For my family, it's around increasing the quantity of quality time. And then with VSCO, it's with moving with confidence. How do I lead and really help VSCO move with confidence towards accomplishing our mission? So that's been a huge area of just focus. That's what I do. Everything else, I either say no or I delegate.

AI assessment note: “I focus on investing first in myself, then in taking care of my family”

Q we and the collective you as a team and how you think about that mission. I do want to touch on the leadership team. I know we share a joy and passion for kind of leadership team dynamics, obvious why I'm still single. So what does leadership team dynamics really look like to you, Joel? And how have you really seen that play out in your experiences and what works?

A So I believe this is my primary role as a CEO is to build the team and grow the team. And Organizational health is everything, and this was about three years ago that really made this transition as my focus as CEO, being around building the team, the team dynamics, because ultimately, how we work is equally important to what we do. That insight was really big for me, and I'm really thankful we had brought on a head of people. Her name is Katie Shields, and at first, you know, something I thought we just had to do as we were scaling the business, ultimately been just Extremely impactful to the business and helping me reshape not only Visco, but myself and my role as CEO. So that dynamic, I think ultimately the key is, is that if you have dynamics of a leadership team in which each other is trying to help the other individual be the best version of themselves collectively as a group, we're able to work together and do the same for the entire org. We talk a lot about servant leadership and that really is that mindset of we're better together. And we're better if we are really collaborating, working with each other, understanding each other's strengths and weaknesses. So that's really the focus that I take with that from the leadership dynamic.

AI assessment note: “if you have dynamics of a leadership team in which each other is trying to help”

Q elements to unpack. You mentioned the element about being a great listener, and the three investors there. I'm really interested. How do you stress test maybe the qualities of your investors, the value that they provide, how good they are at listening? How do you stress test that pre-signing the term sheet, so to speak? What does that look like for you, and that kind of optimal relationship building process?

A Yeah, so, You know, when we were first raising, our office was in Edmarieville, so East Bay, a little out of the way, especially for anyone on Sand Hill Road, and I would not go anywhere for a meeting. There was a bar around the corner called Prizefighter, and every VC that reached out, I said, sure, I'll take a meeting. I'll meet you for a drink this day, four o'clock at Prizefighter, and for many, you know, just even that, well, you need to come to me, mentality just, it eliminated so many, but I ultimately knew Voss was For example, at Excel, that from the day he reached out, he was there the next day for a beer, and it's not just getting a drink, but really that wanting to get to know you, wanting to see the office, wanting to see how you work, and I think it came in with no agenda, and that was able to really suss out in those early meetings where everyone else kind of came in, and this is how we operate, this is what we do, this is how we come in and change, and they're more selling than they are listening, and so for me, it was multiple dinners, and that's a big thing for me, Um, to kind of really get to know them. And then when it came time to it, it was really clear. Like Ryan and boss at Excel, they really won the deal. This was something where they went out and said, we want you. And they showed it and they were, they came in and it's like, this goes it for us. We're…

AI assessment note: “I would not go anywhere for a meeting. There was a bar around the corner”

Q elements to unpack. You mentioned the element about being a great listener, and the three investors there. I'm really interested. How do you stress test maybe the qualities of your investors, the value that they provide, how good they are at listening? How do you stress test that pre-signing the term sheet, so to speak? What does that look like for you, and that kind of optimal relationship building process?

A Yeah, so, You know, when we were first raising, our office was in Edmarieville, so East Bay, a little out of the way, especially for anyone on Sand Hill Road, and I would not go anywhere for a meeting. There was a bar around the corner called Prizefighter, and every VC that reached out, I said, sure, I'll take a meeting. I'll meet you for a drink this day, four o'clock at Prizefighter, and for many, you know, just even that, well, you need to come to me, mentality just, it eliminated so many, but I ultimately knew Voss was For example, at Excel, that from the day he reached out, he was there the next day for a beer, and it's not just getting a drink, but really that wanting to get to know you, wanting to see the office, wanting to see how you work, and I think it came in with no agenda, and that was able to really suss out in those early meetings where everyone else kind of came in, and this is how we operate, this is what we do, this is how we come in and change, and they're more selling than they are listening, and so for me, it was multiple dinners, and that's a big thing for me, Um, to kind of really get to know them. And then when it came time to it, it was really clear. Like Ryan and boss at Excel, they really won the deal. This was something where they went out and said, we want you. And they showed it and they were, they came in and it's like, this goes it for us. We're…

AI assessment note: “I would not go anywhere for a meeting. There was a bar around the corner”

Q This sounds like a really base question, Joel, but how can you actually determine whether your business model and your mission are aligned?

A You know, I think it's, if you take an inventory of what you're working on, who's hired, who's at your business, you start to like really see, is there anyone building or doing anything that's not direct In service of the consumer. Because ultimately, that only amplifies as you scale. Like, that only just grows further and further away from direct value to consumer. And you see this a lot in kind of an ad-based model where there's the consumer product, but the majority of innovation and company and funding really is going towards building the best ad product. The real consumer are the advertisers. It's just that difference there that is something that We set out with the initial insight. It's not that those aren't good business models or great businesses for us in particular. It was not the business we wanted to build and it's not the business I believe in. And that's why, you know, our mission is to help everybody fall in love with their own creativity. It is direct to the consumer. It's service oriented with helping and really it's personal. And then this was a big part. This was something for us is that, you know, we really wanted to help the individual really fall in love with their self, with their creativity and find their voice. And so for us, It's just so critical and it's so freeing and allowing for us to focus as an entire company around that mission, because then you…

AI assessment note: “if you take an inventory of what you're working on, who's hired”

Q behind your why there, but now we know why we want to raise. If we kind of go to the subsequent step, it's a case of how do we choose the investment partner for us? I'm really interested. You chose, obviously, we mentioned Ryan earlier. You chose Excel. How do you think about the element of investor selection, and kind of, what's the top considerations for you in this process?

A So I had, actually, our other kind of first investor, Adam Ross of Goldcrest Capital, was someone that actually brought on before we had any investors. Someone introduced us, and really was just drawn to how down-to-earth he was, and really helped me think through investors, who to think about adding on, because kind of back to this Visco in, you know, late 20 13. This is post the Instagram sale to Facebook. Mobile photos are hot. You can imagine we're profitable, large company. Everyone wanted in on Visco. And so Adam really helped me kind of think through how to build who the investors were in Visco and where we really landed. And what I'm so thankful for was not focusing on people that would change the way Visco operated or change Visco's vision, but really come alongside Visco. And the characteristic that Ryan embodies and that Adam and then David Glenn, the Glenn capital came in series B is all three of them are phenomenal listeners and they are, have helped VSCO be a better version of itself, not VSCO be something that's not. And so for me, that has been the key of what I've looked at. Someone that has value to add beyond their capital, because quite honestly, everyone has capital. It's, it really is not a differentiator anymore at all. And so you're looking for that other factor, that It thing. And so that's been a big part for us. And I, the other thing I'd throw out th…

AI assessment note: “looking for that other factor, that It thing. And so that's been a big part”

Q This sounds like a really base question, Joel, but how can you actually determine whether your business model and your mission are aligned?

A You know, I think it's, if you take an inventory of what you're working on, who's hired, who's at your business, you start to like really see, is there anyone building or doing anything that's not direct In service of the consumer. Because ultimately, that only amplifies as you scale. Like, that only just grows further and further away from direct value to consumer. And you see this a lot in kind of an ad-based model where there's the consumer product, but the majority of innovation and company and funding really is going towards building the best ad product. The real consumer are the advertisers. It's just that difference there that is something that We set out with the initial insight. It's not that those aren't good business models or great businesses for us in particular. It was not the business we wanted to build and it's not the business I believe in. And that's why, you know, our mission is to help everybody fall in love with their own creativity. It is direct to the consumer. It's service oriented with helping and really it's personal. And then this was a big part. This was something for us is that, you know, we really wanted to help the individual really fall in love with their self, with their creativity and find their voice. And so for us, It's just so critical and it's so freeing and allowing for us to focus as an entire company around that mission, because then you…

AI assessment note: “if you take an inventory of what you're working on, who's hired”

Q Ryan there in the intro. So I do want to kick off probably unsurprisingly given the name of the show with the theme of fundraising. We've seen some big pushback maybe on raising VC money in the last few weeks. I have to ask with your being at the epicenter in the Valley, I'm really intrigued. How do you analyze the current sentiment and approach to fundraising around you today?

A Yeah. So the first thing I'd like to really point out is that we are founded in Oakland. So I like to think not in the epicenter of the Valley, but I do understand geographically if you're outside the Bay area, it feels like that. You know, I think every situation is unique and we've now been in business almost eight years and seeing a few different waves of fundraising and thoughts around it. And I think, I do think something that's unique this time around that I haven't seen yet in my career is Is there's this really strong desire to start to know where the money's coming from, knowing the source and people kind of really understanding where, where the dollars come from. So I think on that end, that's a lot of what we're seeing. And I think also from my end, what I've come to learn is that it's not just always be raising or always taking money, but knowing what you're using it for. And so I think we're seeing people build real businesses, you know, at Fisco, we're cashflow positive. We don't need to raise And with that, though, we can do it when it's right for us, and when we know how we're going to deploy it, and so I think that's what you're seeing is a lot of entrepreneurs in better positions where they're able to do what's best for them and for their business.

AI assessment note: “really strong desire to start to know where the money's coming from”

Q centricity. I'm really interested. I've seen more social networks Style social companies transition to a subscription model over time, and one commonality that's often challenging is the hit that they take in valuation from moving from kind of a social network style valuation mechanism to a subscription multiples of revenue style valuation method. Was that a concern for you, and kind of how does that play into your thought process?

A So VSCO, from day one, we've sold the product, and so I think this is one unique characteristic is that We were never just this free grow as big as possible with everyone saying, yeah, but you know, one day you're just going to put ads on there. We really have been clear and upfront from the beginning that we were not going to be an ads based business. While many kind of in the press think of us as kind of another social media platform, we've been very clear with ourselves and with investors. Like that's not who we see ourselves. We see ourselves playing piece of that, but it's in service of creation. So Our community is in service of creation. Our community is in service of helping you fall in love with your creativity. And so that focus is something that we know who we are and we know who we serve. And I think that's a very critical thing. We did have that existential crisis. And you do see this with many companies where they don't know who they are. And that transition is very difficult because it is a stark change to their consumer. All of a sudden where it's like, wait, what's going on here? Why do I have to pay for this now?

AI assessment note: “VSCO, from day one, we've sold the product”

Q Ryan there in the intro. So I do want to kick off probably unsurprisingly given the name of the show with the theme of fundraising. We've seen some big pushback maybe on raising VC money in the last few weeks. I have to ask with your being at the epicenter in the Valley, I'm really intrigued. How do you analyze the current sentiment and approach to fundraising around you today?

A Yeah. So the first thing I'd like to really point out is that we are founded in Oakland. So I like to think not in the epicenter of the Valley, but I do understand geographically if you're outside the Bay area, it feels like that. You know, I think every situation is unique and we've now been in business almost eight years and seeing a few different waves of fundraising and thoughts around it. And I think, I do think something that's unique this time around that I haven't seen yet in my career is Is there's this really strong desire to start to know where the money's coming from, knowing the source and people kind of really understanding where, where the dollars come from. So I think on that end, that's a lot of what we're seeing. And I think also from my end, what I've come to learn is that it's not just always be raising or always taking money, but knowing what you're using it for. And so I think we're seeing people build real businesses, you know, at Fisco, we're cashflow positive. We don't need to raise And with that, though, we can do it when it's right for us, and when we know how we're going to deploy it, and so I think that's what you're seeing is a lot of entrepreneurs in better positions where they're able to do what's best for them and for their business.

AI assessment note: “I do think something that's unique this time around that I haven't seen yet”

Q centricity. I'm really interested. I've seen more social networks Style social companies transition to a subscription model over time, and one commonality that's often challenging is the hit that they take in valuation from moving from kind of a social network style valuation mechanism to a subscription multiples of revenue style valuation method. Was that a concern for you, and kind of how does that play into your thought process?

A So VSCO, from day one, we've sold the product, and so I think this is one unique characteristic is that We were never just this free grow as big as possible with everyone saying, yeah, but you know, one day you're just going to put ads on there. We really have been clear and upfront from the beginning that we were not going to be an ads based business. While many kind of in the press think of us as kind of another social media platform, we've been very clear with ourselves and with investors. Like that's not who we see ourselves. We see ourselves playing piece of that, but it's in service of creation. So Our community is in service of creation. Our community is in service of helping you fall in love with your creativity. And so that focus is something that we know who we are and we know who we serve. And I think that's a very critical thing. We did have that existential crisis. And you do see this with many companies where they don't know who they are. And that transition is very difficult because it is a stark change to their consumer. All of a sudden where it's like, wait, what's going on here? Why do I have to pay for this now?

AI assessment note: “from day one, we've sold the product”

Q do see a lot of fundraisers going on around you, and you see a lot of founders in the ecosystem. Are there elements where you see founders commonly going wrong? Maybe in the process, maybe in the relationship building process, Maybe in capital deployment subsequently. Are there any elements that you see frequently where you're like, this is a commonality. This is a common mistake that I'm seeing too often.

A I mean, I can just speak from my personal experience because I, not everything's been perfect here. And I, there's an element where knowing how much you can meaningfully deploy to build value in your business and not just raising something that sounds like a great big number is probably an area where we learn the hard way. I'm thankful we did raise what we did because it allowed us to really stabilize the business. But ultimately, you know, now we're so mindful of what that means when you bring on new expectations, because ultimately it's another consumer that you're needing to serve as it relates to not just the VCs, but also the LPs and knowing who that is and knowing how much to raise and knowing how much you can meaningfully deploy and really continue to build value off of is something that That I, a lesson I've learned and been very thankful for the partners that we've had along the way. And, you know, I think there was a phrase when we first raised that I was kind of really pushed and was hearing a lot in 2014, 2015. It was kind of this, like, grow at all costs, spend faster, you're not growing fast enough, hire faster. This notion of our new CMO, Tessa, really came in and preached this, plan the plan, resource the plan, and work the plan. And, you know, I think it's something where we just got right to working. And didn't really do as much of the meaningful planning as w…

AI assessment note: “knowing how much you can meaningfully deploy to build value in your business”

Q So on the flip side of the table then, if kind of that's what works and that's where you've seen it really be optimal, if you'd go on the other side of the table, what have been some of the core challenges maybe in terms of building and scaling that leadership team for you at VSCO? Have there been any barriers where you really struggled maybe?

A Oh, absolutely. I think To get a company off the ground from zero to one is a very different stage. And for us that we're on the leadership team, and we actually didn't even call ourselves a leadership team. It was just those that were the executives at Disco at the time. It was really, we all had our areas of ownership. We all put our heads down and just went and did it and really characterized by hard work. Each of us rolled up our sleeves. We got it done, but there came a time where we needed to scale beyond ourselves. And that was really a difficult transition, but one that has been extremely fruitful. And it really, for me, kind of that aha moment, I sat in a fireside chat and there was a series of CEOs that were talking about how dysfunctional their teams were. And then there was a couple that were talking about just how amazing their leadership team was. One of them mentioned, you know, for me, it was the moment I read five dysfunctions of a team and just really then invested in kind of the first team principle. Like, tell you what, on that flight home, I read that book two days later, we were at our first offsite, and really started to form together this first team principle, where what I mean by that is that our team is not, I'm the head of engineering, my team's not all of engineering, my team is the leadership team. Working together in that lens, you know, it was a t…

AI assessment note: “needed to scale beyond ourselves. And that was really a difficult transition”

Q do see a lot of fundraisers going on around you, and you see a lot of founders in the ecosystem. Are there elements where you see founders commonly going wrong? Maybe in the process, maybe in the relationship building process, Maybe in capital deployment subsequently. Are there any elements that you see frequently where you're like, this is a commonality. This is a common mistake that I'm seeing too often.

A I mean, I can just speak from my personal experience because I, not everything's been perfect here. And I, there's an element where knowing how much you can meaningfully deploy to build value in your business and not just raising something that sounds like a great big number is probably an area where we learn the hard way. I'm thankful we did raise what we did because it allowed us to really stabilize the business. But ultimately, you know, now we're so mindful of what that means when you bring on new expectations, because ultimately it's another consumer that you're needing to serve as it relates to not just the VCs, but also the LPs and knowing who that is and knowing how much to raise and knowing how much you can meaningfully deploy and really continue to build value off of is something that That I, a lesson I've learned and been very thankful for the partners that we've had along the way. And, you know, I think there was a phrase when we first raised that I was kind of really pushed and was hearing a lot in 2014, 2015. It was kind of this, like, grow at all costs, spend faster, you're not growing fast enough, hire faster. This notion of our new CMO, Tessa, really came in and preached this, plan the plan, resource the plan, and work the plan. And, you know, I think it's something where we just got right to working. And didn't really do as much of the meaningful planning as w…

AI assessment note: “knowing how much you can meaningfully deploy to build value in your business”

Q Can I ask, you said about kind of saying no there. Help me out, Joel. Uh, Joel, I'd love to go for a coffee with you and pick your brains on X topic. Context. You do not want to go for a coffee with me. How do you respond to that question from me in terms of the coffee, and how do you kind of gracefully and politely say no?

A It's interesting. I actually even carve out a bit of time, and I think it's all about in context. If you were saying yes to those coffees all the time, it would add up, and you'd look back, and like, I spent too much time in this area. I leave unstructured time. I leave time for meetings that I probably should say no to, but I give just a little bit of my time towards that. Not a lot. And in context of the month, there might be 3:30 minute time slots that I'm going to offer up for a meeting that I probably shouldn't take. And you know what? An overwhelming majority of those meetings result in exactly that. You know, it was something that maybe I shouldn't have taken, but I also gave back and really helped maybe someone else that was needing to kind of come along. And then there's other times where that leads to this, that leads to this. And the next thing you know, Allah, that's, you know, where our new CMO from Nike comes from is through taking those meetings you probably shouldn't take that introduces you to someone who introduces you to someone. And the next thing you know, it's one of the key pieces of your business.

AI assessment note: “I actually even carve out a bit of time”

Q Can I ask, you said about kind of saying no there. Help me out, Joel. Uh, Joel, I'd love to go for a coffee with you and pick your brains on X topic. Context. You do not want to go for a coffee with me. How do you respond to that question from me in terms of the coffee, and how do you kind of gracefully and politely say no?

A It's interesting. I actually even carve out a bit of time, and I think it's all about in context. If you were saying yes to those coffees all the time, it would add up, and you'd look back, and like, I spent too much time in this area. I leave unstructured time. I leave time for meetings that I probably should say no to, but I give just a little bit of my time towards that. Not a lot. And in context of the month, there might be 3:30 minute time slots that I'm going to offer up for a meeting that I probably shouldn't take. And you know what? An overwhelming majority of those meetings result in exactly that. You know, it was something that maybe I shouldn't have taken, but I also gave back and really helped maybe someone else that was needing to kind of come along. And then there's other times where that leads to this, that leads to this. And the next thing you know, Allah, that's, you know, where our new CMO from Nike comes from is through taking those meetings you probably shouldn't take that introduces you to someone who introduces you to someone. And the next thing you know, it's one of the key pieces of your business.

AI assessment note: “I leave time for meetings that I probably should say no to”