The Exchanges

Q And I'd love to hear then, moving then specifically to the information, if we were to address that same, uh, strategic approach to the information and kind of profile the avatar of your average reader, uh, and then the relative values for them, how would you approach that? Is it a kind of 20 to 35 male San Franciscan?

A Absolutely. So it's a decision maker in tech, media, or finance. Our subscribers range from Entrepreneurs who are just starting out on their first Y Combinator company, to executives in the management teams at the most highly valued public tech companies, to 10 out of 10 of the founders of the most highly valued U.S. private tech companies. It really does range in terms of the demographics and even the role, but I think the, the thing our subscribers have in common Is that they're making decisions, running a team, they're running a company, making investments. So they're looking for information that helps them answer the questions they have about these companies and their competitors. And they're, they're very actively involved in shaping the future of their industry.

AI assessment note: “So it's a decision maker in tech, media, or finance.”

Q And you mentioned that great reporting and great reporters themselves. I have to ask then, what do you think truly makes a great reporter? Is it kind of an innate curiosity for all things? Is it an ability to You know, weave narrative into a particular circumstance. What is it for you in particular that sees the eye of the tiger in a potential journalist?

A I love that question because I think it's a couple of things. So myself, I am a news hound. I love breaking news, getting stories before other people have them. My personal style of reporting is less long-form narrative and more staying on top of and working a beat. And, you know, we have other reporters at the information who, who are similarly sort of cut, who, who love that. And so what makes them great is grit, competitiveness, really deep curiosity about the beat they're covering, and they just kind of want to be all over it. But then we have reporters like Reid Albergati, who was a colleague of mine at the journal, who just published a 4000 word piece on Nest that took a very long time. That was a narrative of all the troubles that that company Um, with interviews with all the key players, including Tony Fidel, a much more narrative story that took longer, that, that is obviously excellent journalism as well. And then a third bucket, sort of the great columns, the great, the great analyzers, the people who maybe aren't, you know, focused always on getting the facts first, but they piece them together and connect the dots. And, At the information we, we do all three, and I think they're all incredibly valuable, and there, there are commonalities. I think there, there's a lot of curiosity, a lot of keenness to ask questions. But, but the styles of reporting are very differe…

AI assessment note: “what makes them great is grit, competitiveness, really deep curiosity about the beat”

Q And you mentioned that great reporting and great reporters themselves. I have to ask then, what do you think truly makes a great reporter? Is it kind of an innate curiosity for all things? Is it an ability to You know, weave narrative into a particular circumstance. What is it for you in particular that sees the eye of the tiger in a potential journalist?

A I love that question because I think it's a couple of things. So myself, I am a news hound. I love breaking news, getting stories before other people have them. My personal style of reporting is less long-form narrative and more staying on top of and working a beat. And, you know, we have other reporters at the information who, who are similarly sort of cut, who, who love that. And so what makes them great is grit, competitiveness, really deep curiosity about the beat they're covering, and they just kind of want to be all over it. But then we have reporters like Reid Albergati, who was a colleague of mine at the journal, who just published a 4000 word piece on Nest that took a very long time. That was a narrative of all the troubles that that company Um, with interviews with all the key players, including Tony Fidel, a much more narrative story that took longer, that, that is obviously excellent journalism as well. And then a third bucket, sort of the great columns, the great, the great analyzers, the people who maybe aren't, you know, focused always on getting the facts first, but they piece them together and connect the dots. And, At the information we, we do all three, and I think they're all incredibly valuable, and there, there are commonalities. I think there, there's a lot of curiosity, a lot of keenness to ask questions. But, but the styles of reporting are very differe…

AI assessment note: “what makes them great is grit, competitiveness, really deep curiosity about the beat”

Q And I'd love to hear then, moving then specifically to the information, if we were to address that same, uh, strategic approach to the information and kind of profile the avatar of your average reader, uh, and then the relative values for them, how would you approach that? Is it a kind of 20 to 35 male San Franciscan?

A Absolutely. So it's a decision maker in tech, media, or finance. Our subscribers range from Entrepreneurs who are just starting out on their first Y Combinator company, to executives in the management teams at the most highly valued public tech companies, to 10 out of 10 of the founders of the most highly valued U.S. private tech companies. It really does range in terms of the demographics and even the role, but I think the, the thing our subscribers have in common Is that they're making decisions, running a team, they're running a company, making investments. So they're looking for information that helps them answer the questions they have about these companies and their competitors. And they're, they're very actively involved in shaping the future of their industry.

AI assessment note: “it's a decision maker in tech, media, or finance.”

Q of the industry, and I completely agree with you in terms of kind of audience and who it's reaching, who they're aiming for. But how do you then view the competitive landscape for, for journalism and publishing today? You know, there are quality out there in terms of, you know, Ben Thompson's strategy, maybe, um, Ben Evans is always brilliant at writing. So how do you view that competitive landscape?

A So anything that takes our subscribers time that they find valuable from Instagram to The Economist is in some ways competitive, right? I mean, I think that is actually the bar for anyone in the media business. There's a lot of things you can do with your time, and Anything that saps that is going to, you know, something we're going to be thinking of as we're trying to write our stories that are, that are worth reading. I think when you get into the news industry, yes, we've got, you have analysts like Ben Thompson and Ben Evans who were wonderful, who give you their take on, on some news that's already happened. You've got Major publications. You have the research arms inside banks and companies, venture capital firms that are publishing their own newsletters. And, um, I think ramping up the amount of content they're producing, often analyzing other content that's been written. I think the thing about being where we want to sit is if you're writing stories that have new information about business and technology, it's not like our audience will only read one of those. They literally have a thirst for as much that's valuable to them As humanly possible. It's not like there are only X hours. Someone's only going to read a business publication about technology. I think it's more that people are craving stories that are different, relevant to them, and that it's not as much of a ze…

AI assessment note: “anything that takes our subscribers time that they find valuable from Instagram to The Economist”

Q And I'd love to discuss now one of the, the main, um, problems that probably online journalism houses have faced in, in the past couple of years, which is the monetization, which we, we've just discussed, obviously the information doesn't have with your subscription based model. But I want to ask then, why did you choose this model first off? Why was that the inherently correct model for you?

A To me, it was the only model because it's the only model that is going to align doing stories that people have to read that have value to them with the business. And if you're not writing stories that people feel like they have to read, you know, you may get blips and traffic here and there. You may even grow your audience for a couple of years. But you're not going to be around years and years and years from now. The subscription business to me is very core in the history of news and journalism. It's worked very well for a very long time. And it's the business aligned with the kind of stories and publications we want to build. And I think if you're in a world where you're dependent on advertising, you're going to serve multiple masters. You're going to serve the traffic master, the advertising master. You know, if you're dependent on events, you're going to serve the sponsorship master and the subscription business is it's pure. It's serving your end reader and your customer. It's also insanely scalable, right? That doesn't tap out at how, you know, many business development deals you can cut or how many ad packages you can sell, right? It, it taps out based on the inherent value of the product. And so Our excitement for that business model that caused us to start the information. And so it's never been a sort of thing we arrived at through process of elimination. It's very co…

AI assessment note: “To me, it was the only model because it's the only model that is going to align”

Q And, and you mentioned that your growth, and I have to ask, because the information now is, is such a substantial, uh, organization and such a brilliant organization and publishing house. So I have to ask, what were the transitory moments in your growth where you really, uh, hit a stride and increased substantially? What were those moments?

A So it's so early for us too. It's hard to say. I mean, Our business has been one of steady organic growth, which, and by organic, I mean, we've grown through word of mouth and through our stories, reaching new people, being picked up by other news outlets, you know, in a given week, maybe a given month, most of the other publications will, will pick up information stories. So actually to date, our growth has been The organic word of mouth side and incredibly linear, sort of eerily linear. Actually, one of the things we're focusing on now is how we can turbocharge that with, you know, smart email marketing and other kinds of business led initiatives. But honestly, those are in the very early stages for us. And so more than an inflection point, I think it's been this very consistent, predictable pattern. Stories breeding growth. That's incredibly exciting to me because again, it gets to the, the sort of scalability of the model. Uh, and I think we also have the opportunity now to, you know, change the slope of the curve, you know, even more through other initiatives, but I be hard pressed to find one moment.

AI assessment note: “I be hard pressed to find one moment.”

Q And speaking of kind of transitory change and movement within the industry, we've seen a huge amount of change in traditional journalistic press over the last several years in particular. So how have you seen the industry alter as an insider?

A Uh, in so many ways. I think most of it comes down to the fact the industry is getting very broad and shallow. And what I mean by that is there are more publications by the day, but they're all essentially covering the same kind of news for mass audiences. And that's simply a business model function, right? If you're trying to drive traffic for advertising, you're going to think of a broad group of readers, you're going to try and hook that reader into clicking on your story with a sexy headline, and you're going to write about Donald Trump, the iPhone. The proven traffic drivers, and so I think we've seen broadening of the number of publications, but those publications, they're shallower, and they're looking more similar. I think that leaves a huge opportunity for other types of businesses that aren't doing that, that want to go deeper and focus on things that aren't being written about, but to answer your question, my main observation is, is one of sameness, one of Things looking, you know, more like each other and kind of converging to an average, if you will.

AI assessment note: “most of it comes down to the fact the industry is getting very broad and shallow.”

Q And talking of that uniqueness there, how do you approach that uniqueness with regards to your content creation? Is there different kind of investigative strategies you can use to seek out the stories that others aren't? What's your approach to that and to not writing the press releases that we often see in, in more major publications?

A It starts with excellent reporters who are deeply sourced and knowledgeable about what they're writing about. And, you know, our team has been covering companies like Google, Facebook, and others for, for pretty much longer than most other tech reporters out there, period. You know, more than a decade, which in tech land is a short period of time, you know. We have networks and relationships and, and just reporting that I think is a huge advantage in terms of experience. At the same time, we hire, you know, excellent reporters who maybe have less experience in technology, but can sort of work collaboratively with our team that does have more experience in technology to help them come up the sourcing learning curve faster. And, and that's what it starts with. And, It's surprising because you may say, well, that can't be that much of an advantage. Lots of places have great reporters, but one just abnormality about where we are right now is that so many other publications are having their great reporters spend their time on less than great stories. Again, on these stories that are real-time, regurgitation, written because, you know, they're trending on Twitter, and God forbid a publication doesn't have a story to go with it. So even if we had The same quality of reporters, and I think we have, you know, much better reporters, but even if we did, and we were letting those reporters…

AI assessment note: “It starts with excellent reporters who are deeply sourced and knowledgeable about what they're writing”

Q quickfire round, which business-led initiative, obviously very early stages, we're throwing ideas at a wall here, but which one are you most, uh, maybe excited for, would most like to try even out of curiosity? Is there one, may it, may it be kind of innovative form of email newsletters, or free content in some way to entice users in, whatever it is, what, what are you most excited by?

A I'm very excited about email. I think, you know, we have orders of magnitude more than emails and we have subscribers right now, maybe one order of magnitude more, just from people who have expressed interest in the information. These are people who want to learn more about the information. They've literally given us their email to, to help us, you know, to express interest. And I think the opportunity to let them know more about us, bring them into our community is awesome. And these days from a technology perspective, The sky's the limit with email. There are a lot of challenges with email, too, and, you know, it's amazing me how hard our engineering team works on things like the right margins for the right phone, and the, you know, it's a tricky platform in a lot of ways, but I think there's a ton of potential to communicate with potential subscribers over it, so I'm incredibly excited about that.

AI assessment note: “I'm very excited about email.”

Q And I have to ask then, slightly going back to the Wall Street Journal days, what were the takeaways from working at such a kind of journalistic behemoth as the Wall Street Journal that you've taken with you and adapted to the information and sometimes, uh, left behind?

A So the Journal obviously has some fabulous reporters and editors who I think were instrumental in training me as a journalist, and I think we learned a lot from about what constitutes great reporting. In particular, when I started at the Journal, The, in 2005, the emphasis was on reporting no one else was doing. So we didn't just write the same news of the day. We didn't write the press release. We looked for the stories no one was doing. And I think the journal and other publications have broadened their focus away from that kind of journalism, but it's something that I've certainly taken from the journal and half our reporting team, um, you know, spent decades collectively at the journal as well at the information. So I think that's one of the things that we still think of to this day.

AI assessment note: “it's something that I've certainly taken from the journal”

Q And talking of the quality of content purely being produced, and I, I have to ask, Marc Andreessen made an assertion that print journalism is converging in quality and technique with blogs and Wikipedia. Do you agree with that statement, do you think?

A I think, yeah, You know, I've always separated, so yes, because I think you have to separate the medium from the content. So just because something's digital, it doesn't mean that it's inherently Better or worse than something that's dead trees, right? So I, I think what's behind Mark's observation and point is that, again, this sort of, this idea of sameness that, and, and also that you can have an experience that you used to have reading The Economist by reading a webpage, right? It depends what the content is, and so I think we've certainly seen that. I think that behind his comment, too, is When I hear a statement like that, it exposes no one's thinking about who the audience is. So for me, any statement about the quality of something converging towards the quality of something else ignores the way I think about it, which is, Who's this supposed to reach, right? Quality isn't something that is abstract. It's based on the value of that information to a particular audience. So the way I look at the world is less, here's one type of publication. Here's one type of medium. It's what is this information or who is this information trying to reach in terms of an audience? Is it business professionals? Is it techies? Is it politics walks? And then what are the relative values of information to those audiences? And that can be Print. That can be digital. You know, it's sort of a dif…

AI assessment note: “I think, yeah, You know, I've always separated, so yes, because”

Q of the industry, and I completely agree with you in terms of kind of audience and who it's reaching, who they're aiming for. But how do you then view the competitive landscape for, for journalism and publishing today? You know, there are quality out there in terms of, you know, Ben Thompson's strategy, maybe, um, Ben Evans is always brilliant at writing. So how do you view that competitive landscape?

A So anything that takes our subscribers time that they find valuable from Instagram to The Economist is in some ways competitive, right? I mean, I think that is actually the bar for anyone in the media business. There's a lot of things you can do with your time, and Anything that saps that is going to, you know, something we're going to be thinking of as we're trying to write our stories that are, that are worth reading. I think when you get into the news industry, yes, we've got, you have analysts like Ben Thompson and Ben Evans who were wonderful, who give you their take on, on some news that's already happened. You've got Major publications. You have the research arms inside banks and companies, venture capital firms that are publishing their own newsletters. And, um, I think ramping up the amount of content they're producing, often analyzing other content that's been written. I think the thing about being where we want to sit is if you're writing stories that have new information about business and technology, it's not like our audience will only read one of those. They literally have a thirst for as much that's valuable to them As humanly possible. It's not like there are only X hours. Someone's only going to read a business publication about technology. I think it's more that people are craving stories that are different, relevant to them, and that it's not as much of a ze…

AI assessment note: “anything that takes our subscribers time that they find valuable from Instagram to The Economist”

Q quickfire round, which business-led initiative, obviously very early stages, we're throwing ideas at a wall here, but which one are you most, uh, maybe excited for, would most like to try even out of curiosity? Is there one, may it, may it be kind of innovative form of email newsletters, or free content in some way to entice users in, whatever it is, what, what are you most excited by?

A I'm very excited about email. I think, you know, we have orders of magnitude more than emails and we have subscribers right now, maybe one order of magnitude more, just from people who have expressed interest in the information. These are people who want to learn more about the information. They've literally given us their email to, to help us, you know, to express interest. And I think the opportunity to let them know more about us, bring them into our community is awesome. And these days from a technology perspective, The sky's the limit with email. There are a lot of challenges with email, too, and, you know, it's amazing me how hard our engineering team works on things like the right margins for the right phone, and the, you know, it's a tricky platform in a lot of ways, but I think there's a ton of potential to communicate with potential subscribers over it, so I'm incredibly excited about that.

AI assessment note: “I'm very excited about email.”

Q And speaking of kind of transitory change and movement within the industry, we've seen a huge amount of change in traditional journalistic press over the last several years in particular. So how have you seen the industry alter as an insider?

A Uh, in so many ways. I think most of it comes down to the fact the industry is getting very broad and shallow. And what I mean by that is there are more publications by the day, but they're all essentially covering the same kind of news for mass audiences. And that's simply a business model function, right? If you're trying to drive traffic for advertising, you're going to think of a broad group of readers, you're going to try and hook that reader into clicking on your story with a sexy headline, and you're going to write about Donald Trump, the iPhone. The proven traffic drivers, and so I think we've seen broadening of the number of publications, but those publications, they're shallower, and they're looking more similar. I think that leaves a huge opportunity for other types of businesses that aren't doing that, that want to go deeper and focus on things that aren't being written about, but to answer your question, my main observation is, is one of sameness, one of Things looking, you know, more like each other and kind of converging to an average, if you will.

AI assessment note: “most of it comes down to the fact the industry is getting very broad and shallow.”

Q And talking of that uniqueness there, how do you approach that uniqueness with regards to your content creation? Is there different kind of investigative strategies you can use to seek out the stories that others aren't? What's your approach to that and to not writing the press releases that we often see in, in more major publications?

A It starts with excellent reporters who are deeply sourced and knowledgeable about what they're writing about. And, you know, our team has been covering companies like Google, Facebook, and others for, for pretty much longer than most other tech reporters out there, period. You know, more than a decade, which in tech land is a short period of time, you know. We have networks and relationships and, and just reporting that I think is a huge advantage in terms of experience. At the same time, we hire, you know, excellent reporters who maybe have less experience in technology, but can sort of work collaboratively with our team that does have more experience in technology to help them come up the sourcing learning curve faster. And, and that's what it starts with. And, It's surprising because you may say, well, that can't be that much of an advantage. Lots of places have great reporters, but one just abnormality about where we are right now is that so many other publications are having their great reporters spend their time on less than great stories. Again, on these stories that are real-time, regurgitation, written because, you know, they're trending on Twitter, and God forbid a publication doesn't have a story to go with it. So even if we had The same quality of reporters, and I think we have, you know, much better reporters, but even if we did, and we were letting those reporters…

AI assessment note: “letting those reporters spend a hundred percent of their time on stories that were going to have a real original angle”

Q And I'd love to discuss now one of the, the main, um, problems that probably online journalism houses have faced in, in the past couple of years, which is the monetization, which we, we've just discussed, obviously the information doesn't have with your subscription based model. But I want to ask then, why did you choose this model first off? Why was that the inherently correct model for you?

A To me, it was the only model because it's the only model that is going to align doing stories that people have to read that have value to them with the business. And if you're not writing stories that people feel like they have to read, you know, you may get blips and traffic here and there. You may even grow your audience for a couple of years. But you're not going to be around years and years and years from now. The subscription business to me is very core in the history of news and journalism. It's worked very well for a very long time. And it's the business aligned with the kind of stories and publications we want to build. And I think if you're in a world where you're dependent on advertising, you're going to serve multiple masters. You're going to serve the traffic master, the advertising master. You know, if you're dependent on events, you're going to serve the sponsorship master and the subscription business is it's pure. It's serving your end reader and your customer. It's also insanely scalable, right? That doesn't tap out at how, you know, many business development deals you can cut or how many ad packages you can sell, right? It, it taps out based on the inherent value of the product. And so Our excitement for that business model that caused us to start the information. And so it's never been a sort of thing we arrived at through process of elimination. It's very co…

AI assessment note: “it's the only model that is going to align doing stories that people have to read”

Q And, and you mentioned that your growth, and I have to ask, because the information now is, is such a substantial, uh, organization and such a brilliant organization and publishing house. So I have to ask, what were the transitory moments in your growth where you really, uh, hit a stride and increased substantially? What were those moments?

A So it's so early for us too. It's hard to say. I mean, Our business has been one of steady organic growth, which, and by organic, I mean, we've grown through word of mouth and through our stories, reaching new people, being picked up by other news outlets, you know, in a given week, maybe a given month, most of the other publications will, will pick up information stories. So actually to date, our growth has been The organic word of mouth side and incredibly linear, sort of eerily linear. Actually, one of the things we're focusing on now is how we can turbocharge that with, you know, smart email marketing and other kinds of business led initiatives. But honestly, those are in the very early stages for us. And so more than an inflection point, I think it's been this very consistent, predictable pattern. Stories breeding growth. That's incredibly exciting to me because again, it gets to the, the sort of scalability of the model. Uh, and I think we also have the opportunity now to, you know, change the slope of the curve, you know, even more through other initiatives, but I be hard pressed to find one moment.

AI assessment note: “more than an inflection point, I think it's been this very consistent, predictable pattern”

Q And then finally, the next five years for you and for the information, what's in the pipelines?

A I think it's just growth. I mean, we, our product is simple. It's information you can't get elsewhere that's valuable. It's a community of subscribers that you can talk to about that information online, and I do not see that changing in five, 10, 15, 20, 25 years, but I think our, our community, the readership, um, and, and also the areas where we can cover will grow, um, not in the sense that, like, we want to start a sports page tomorrow, but in the sense that, I think if we're covering technology, we'll inherently be covering all sorts of industries and areas, and, and our coverage will broaden from that as well. So that's kind of what I see when I look on the horizon.

AI assessment note: “I think it's just growth.”

Q And were you concerned though by the, by the slight barrier to entry on consumers with the subscription fee, obviously with, you know, your mediums, which I know are very different, uh, in terms of publications, but that users would be faced with a payment and it would cause the onboarding to turn off. Did that concern you?

A Look, I think it's a good thing that we're not writing for every person. You're right, that there's some barrier to entry. Now, now, obviously, as we've been rapidly growing our business, I mean, I certainly want to, and we see the information as a publication that, you know, can reach massive audiences over time. We're not, we don't want to write for all people. We want there to be a sense that we're writing for a community that has a certain set of interests where we can have a certain value proposition. And, And that's a big difference. I think if you're writing a publication or building a tech product for a billion people, you know, that's going to look a certain way, and we don't want to build that product. I think that's a first important conceptual thing to understand. Absolutely, you know, from a product perspective, you want the subscription to be as seamless as humanly possible. Obviously, these days, and that's totally possible with technology, there are great Many products that you can use. We have an awesome engineering team, and I think we can continue to do a lot to even make that easier than it is today. Um, and so we certainly put a lot of thought into the products. So once someone decides they want to subscribe, that becomes very easy, but we don't lose sleep over the fact that some people don't want to subscribe to the information. We think, you know, we'll f…

AI assessment note: “we don't lose sleep over the fact that some people don't want to subscribe”

Q And were you concerned though by the, by the slight barrier to entry on consumers with the subscription fee, obviously with, you know, your mediums, which I know are very different, uh, in terms of publications, but that users would be faced with a payment and it would cause the onboarding to turn off. Did that concern you?

A Look, I think it's a good thing that we're not writing for every person. You're right, that there's some barrier to entry. Now, now, obviously, as we've been rapidly growing our business, I mean, I certainly want to, and we see the information as a publication that, you know, can reach massive audiences over time. We're not, we don't want to write for all people. We want there to be a sense that we're writing for a community that has a certain set of interests where we can have a certain value proposition. And, And that's a big difference. I think if you're writing a publication or building a tech product for a billion people, you know, that's going to look a certain way, and we don't want to build that product. I think that's a first important conceptual thing to understand. Absolutely, you know, from a product perspective, you want the subscription to be as seamless as humanly possible. Obviously, these days, and that's totally possible with technology, there are great Many products that you can use. We have an awesome engineering team, and I think we can continue to do a lot to even make that easier than it is today. Um, and so we certainly put a lot of thought into the products. So once someone decides they want to subscribe, that becomes very easy, but we don't lose sleep over the fact that some people don't want to subscribe to the information. We think, you know, we'll f…

AI assessment note: “we don't lose sleep over the fact that some people don't want to subscribe”

Q And I have to ask then, slightly going back to the Wall Street Journal days, what were the takeaways from working at such a kind of journalistic behemoth as the Wall Street Journal that you've taken with you and adapted to the information and sometimes, uh, left behind?

A So the Journal obviously has some fabulous reporters and editors who I think were instrumental in training me as a journalist, and I think we learned a lot from about what constitutes great reporting. In particular, when I started at the Journal, The, in 2005, the emphasis was on reporting no one else was doing. So we didn't just write the same news of the day. We didn't write the press release. We looked for the stories no one was doing. And I think the journal and other publications have broadened their focus away from that kind of journalism, but it's something that I've certainly taken from the journal and half our reporting team, um, you know, spent decades collectively at the journal as well at the information. So I think that's one of the things that we still think of to this day.

AI assessment note: “emphasis was on reporting no one else was doing”

Q And talking of the quality of content purely being produced, and I, I have to ask, Marc Andreessen made an assertion that print journalism is converging in quality and technique with blogs and Wikipedia. Do you agree with that statement, do you think?

A I think, yeah, You know, I've always separated, so yes, because I think you have to separate the medium from the content. So just because something's digital, it doesn't mean that it's inherently Better or worse than something that's dead trees, right? So I, I think what's behind Mark's observation and point is that, again, this sort of, this idea of sameness that, and, and also that you can have an experience that you used to have reading The Economist by reading a webpage, right? It depends what the content is, and so I think we've certainly seen that. I think that behind his comment, too, is When I hear a statement like that, it exposes no one's thinking about who the audience is. So for me, any statement about the quality of something converging towards the quality of something else ignores the way I think about it, which is, Who's this supposed to reach, right? Quality isn't something that is abstract. It's based on the value of that information to a particular audience. So the way I look at the world is less, here's one type of publication. Here's one type of medium. It's what is this information or who is this information trying to reach in terms of an audience? Is it business professionals? Is it techies? Is it politics walks? And then what are the relative values of information to those audiences? And that can be Print. That can be digital. You know, it's sort of a dif…

AI assessment note: “I think, yeah, You know, I've always separated, so yes”