The Exchanges

Q I'm intrigued that now as, as founder and CEO, What do you think makes the truly great founders and CEOs? And are there any in particular that you, you look up to for inspiration and learnings?

A Yeah. For me, what I respect is people that can't help themselves. They just have to do this thing. Like they have to create this change in the world. And I had the extreme privilege to be able to think of the birth of Andela through the lens of what is the change I want to see in the world? And what do I want to build? And what's the engine that will create that? And I That's a really fortunate thing to be able to do. Not many people get a chance to. And so I look at it through the lens of, I better not screw it up because it's probably the most fun, but also hardest thing that I've ever done. When I think about people I look up to, I mean, there are obvious candidates, uh, like an Elon Musk who is constantly helping the world see that reality can look a little bit different, helping to sort of remove that veil. Then there are folks like Brent Beshore, a friend in Columbia, Missouri, who's built the most impressive startup incubators in the country, uh, who is very different from a publicity standpoint, but also by design. He's very focused and able to help bring people together around, around that focus. And so they're all different types.

AI assessment note: “like an Elon Musk... Then there are folks like Brent Beshore”

Q Rough with the smooth. And then finishing today, uh, what's the next five years for you and Andela? If you could have your magic wand and wave it for the future, what does that look like in five years' time with Andela?

A Five years from now, 10 years is very clear. We want to mobilize a 100,000 brilliant developers across the continent and change the way the world views talent, where it comes from, what it looks like, how you engage with it. Five years from now, we will have made, you know, significant strides towards that. We'll be in the thousands when it comes to developers working with companies. We will be operating in five or six additional countries beyond the two that we're currently in. You know, we will be much more of a Household name amongst the tech and engineering community. When they think about elite engineering organizations around the world, they're going to think about Andela before they think about Africa. They're going to think about Andela as an organization that is aspirationally talented.

AI assessment note: “We will be operating in five or six additional countries beyond the two”

Q And then I want to ask, the biggest challenge in the Andela experience, what's been, what's been the tough nut for you to crack?

A Most companies have, like, some kind of core challenge around the business itself. Like, on one hand, you look at their partners in the US, like, you've got 1.8 million open it jobs. Like it's, that isn't the, that isn't a core challenge. On the other side, you've got 1.1 billion people across the continent of Africa finding top two percent, two percent of a billion is still a large number. The challenge for Andela is making sure that lunch shows up on time in Lagos. Like that is immensely challenging. It is shocking as it sounds. It's the little things in between that we have to handle so that The partner companies we work with don't have to think about it that ultimately enable Andela to work. And yes, there are, you know, a number of different components that are a bit more complex, but ultimately those relatively simple, but really important operational components are hugely important and something that we just, we have to remove from the equation for our partners.

AI assessment note: “The challenge for Andela is making sure that lunch shows up on time in Lagos.”

Q I'm intrigued that now as, as founder and CEO, What do you think makes the truly great founders and CEOs? And are there any in particular that you, you look up to for inspiration and learnings?

A Yeah. For me, what I respect is people that can't help themselves. They just have to do this thing. Like they have to create this change in the world. And I had the extreme privilege to be able to think of the birth of Andela through the lens of what is the change I want to see in the world? And what do I want to build? And what's the engine that will create that? And I That's a really fortunate thing to be able to do. Not many people get a chance to. And so I look at it through the lens of, I better not screw it up because it's probably the most fun, but also hardest thing that I've ever done. When I think about people I look up to, I mean, there are obvious candidates, uh, like an Elon Musk who is constantly helping the world see that reality can look a little bit different, helping to sort of remove that veil. Then there are folks like Brent Beshore, a friend in Columbia, Missouri, who's built the most impressive startup incubators in the country, uh, who is very different from a publicity standpoint, but also by design. He's very focused and able to help bring people together around, around that focus. And so they're all different types.

AI assessment note: “what I respect is people that can't help themselves”

Q your kind of take on the catalyst, then, that will cause that transfer from currently a third to the two-thirds to kind of 80% that you would expect in the coming years? Is it the rise of VR? Is it the, you know, increasing cost of housing in San Francisco and other tech hubs causing, you know, distribution to be more attractive? What do you think will be that catalyst?

A I think by the time we get to that point, it will already be really, really obvious. The reason these things happen is you get proof points, you get examples. And so why was Google able to scale AdSense so quickly? Because they were able to prove the value of using their platform really, really clearly. So that someone who was thinking through, you know, at XYZ large advertising firm, how should we spend money? Well, if we use Google's platform, we'll be able to show exactly what the value of our investment was. And that proof, being able to see that, makes it more and more feasible for large companies to think through, all right, well, now we can actually weigh the pros and cons, and this is, yes, different, but clearly the right call. And as that becomes more and more obvious, as the data becomes more and more abundant, you'll start to see people moving from just early adopters thinking about it to it becoming more the norm. By the time we get to virtual reality that really is Fully integrated into our, into our daily lives, and it can create a full virtual experience. I think that the world will have significantly shifted already.

AI assessment note: “The reason these things happen is you get proof points, you get examples.”

Q And then I want to ask, the biggest challenge in the Andela experience, what's been, what's been the tough nut for you to crack?

A Most companies have, like, some kind of core challenge around the business itself. Like, on one hand, you look at their partners in the US, like, you've got 1.8 million open it jobs. Like it's, that isn't the, that isn't a core challenge. On the other side, you've got 1.1 billion people across the continent of Africa finding top two percent, two percent of a billion is still a large number. The challenge for Andela is making sure that lunch shows up on time in Lagos. Like that is immensely challenging. It is shocking as it sounds. It's the little things in between that we have to handle so that The partner companies we work with don't have to think about it that ultimately enable Andela to work. And yes, there are, you know, a number of different components that are a bit more complex, but ultimately those relatively simple, but really important operational components are hugely important and something that we just, we have to remove from the equation for our partners.

AI assessment note: “The challenge for Andela is making sure that lunch shows up on time in Lagos.”

Q Consequently, from that happening, what's been the effect of signing that deal for you?

A I was a little bit nervous, actually, initially. Uh, one of the things that we have to, we have to constantly remind people of is that Andela is very mission-oriented, but it's not a non-profit. Companies that we work with around the world don't work with us because of a CSR You know, initiative. They work with us because they care about talent. They work with us because dollar for dollar is the best investment in scaling engineering. And I was a little bit concerned that having a lead for the B who was, yes, very metrics focused, but also clearly also, uh, mission aligned and like that cared about impact as well might actually complicate our conversations. The reality couldn't be further from the truth. And I, I love being wrong in situations like this. It's a, it's a very high quality problem. And so, the response from partners around the world has been almost overwhelming. I think that the round certainly helped, but what was even probably more impactful was Mark visiting Africa a couple months later.

AI assessment note: “the response from partners around the world has been almost overwhelming”

Q your kind of take on the catalyst, then, that will cause that transfer from currently a third to the two-thirds to kind of 80% that you would expect in the coming years? Is it the rise of VR? Is it the, you know, increasing cost of housing in San Francisco and other tech hubs causing, you know, distribution to be more attractive? What do you think will be that catalyst?

A I think by the time we get to that point, it will already be really, really obvious. The reason these things happen is you get proof points, you get examples. And so why was Google able to scale AdSense so quickly? Because they were able to prove the value of using their platform really, really clearly. So that someone who was thinking through, you know, at XYZ large advertising firm, how should we spend money? Well, if we use Google's platform, we'll be able to show exactly what the value of our investment was. And that proof, being able to see that, makes it more and more feasible for large companies to think through, all right, well, now we can actually weigh the pros and cons, and this is, yes, different, but clearly the right call. And as that becomes more and more obvious, as the data becomes more and more abundant, you'll start to see people moving from just early adopters thinking about it to it becoming more the norm. By the time we get to virtual reality that really is Fully integrated into our, into our daily lives, and it can create a full virtual experience. I think that the world will have significantly shifted already.

AI assessment note: “The reason these things happen is you get proof points, you get examples.”

Q How was that for you as a founder? Uh, obviously that was pre-Andella, but seeing those kind of disruption cycles in EdTech and hype cycles in EdTech, looking back now, how do you view those and where we are today in the correction cycle?

A You know, I viewed it through the lens of, I feel bad for a handful of friends who are probably going to struggle to maintain the kind of Press momentum. They have, but ultimately the world reverts to, are you creating value? You know, at this point, I think that there's much more clarity in, uh, in how people are viewing ed tech. Ultimately, I think that's a good thing for ed tech. Also, I think that there's education is one of the most powerful tools that, that you can use to change the way the world operates, but you need to need to understand how to really scale it and not just the idea of it. Uh, and so a little bit more Clarity and comfort with the reality of what it takes, I think is actually a very good thing long-term.

AI assessment note: “I viewed it through the lens of, I feel bad for a handful of friends”

Q I do. I do want to discuss an element of your discussions with Vivian though, in terms of the EdTech background. Another one of our network asked me to ask you in particular about kind of the previous, um, Troubles investors have had with EdTech. How you view those, and how you think Andela kind of mitigates them moving forward in the new wave of EdTech?

A Yeah, the problem is that most folks in tech misunderstand education. You look at some of the bigger, venture-backed, more visible, visible EdTech stories, you'll oftentimes find an example of, uh, sort of the build it and they will come mentality, which if you're building Instagram, Works really well. I get there. There are enough people that want to share photos that you can aggregate a few hundred million and all of a sudden, no matter what, turn it into something that's sustainable. That is difficult in education. Unfortunately, not as easy to aggregate such a large number of people around self-improvement. Most people pursue education because they're looking for an outcome. So looking to change their life or their child's life in some way, as a result of that, trying to Sort of create a build it and they will come style open education platform is really well intentioned and exciting theoretically, but in practice ends up being a bit more complicated to make sustainable and scale. It's an area where the world is right that it's, that it's immensely exciting that the way that we unlock human capital and connect people, uh, around shared learning experiences is going to evolve dramatically, but I'd say it's There was a period of time when it was a little overhyped, uh, and I think we're seeing a bit of a correction, uh, from that, uh, you know, from like the 2012 through 2014…

AI assessment note: “the problem is that most folks in tech misunderstand education.”

Q Consequently, from that happening, what's been the effect of signing that deal for you?

A I was a little bit nervous, actually, initially. Uh, one of the things that we have to, we have to constantly remind people of is that Andela is very mission-oriented, but it's not a non-profit. Companies that we work with around the world don't work with us because of a CSR You know, initiative. They work with us because they care about talent. They work with us because dollar for dollar is the best investment in scaling engineering. And I was a little bit concerned that having a lead for the B who was, yes, very metrics focused, but also clearly also, uh, mission aligned and like that cared about impact as well might actually complicate our conversations. The reality couldn't be further from the truth. And I, I love being wrong in situations like this. It's a, it's a very high quality problem. And so, the response from partners around the world has been almost overwhelming. I think that the round certainly helped, but what was even probably more impactful was Mark visiting Africa a couple months later.

AI assessment note: “response from partners around the world has been almost overwhelming”

Q I do. I do want to discuss an element of your discussions with Vivian though, in terms of the EdTech background. Another one of our network asked me to ask you in particular about kind of the previous, um, Troubles investors have had with EdTech. How you view those, and how you think Andela kind of mitigates them moving forward in the new wave of EdTech?

A Yeah, the problem is that most folks in tech misunderstand education. You look at some of the bigger, venture-backed, more visible, visible EdTech stories, you'll oftentimes find an example of, uh, sort of the build it and they will come mentality, which if you're building Instagram, Works really well. I get there. There are enough people that want to share photos that you can aggregate a few hundred million and all of a sudden, no matter what, turn it into something that's sustainable. That is difficult in education. Unfortunately, not as easy to aggregate such a large number of people around self-improvement. Most people pursue education because they're looking for an outcome. So looking to change their life or their child's life in some way, as a result of that, trying to Sort of create a build it and they will come style open education platform is really well intentioned and exciting theoretically, but in practice ends up being a bit more complicated to make sustainable and scale. It's an area where the world is right that it's, that it's immensely exciting that the way that we unlock human capital and connect people, uh, around shared learning experiences is going to evolve dramatically, but I'd say it's There was a period of time when it was a little overhyped, uh, and I think we're seeing a bit of a correction, uh, from that, uh, you know, from like the 2012 through 2014…

AI assessment note: “the problem is that most folks in tech misunderstand education.”

Q How was that for you as a founder? Uh, obviously that was pre-Andella, but seeing those kind of disruption cycles in EdTech and hype cycles in EdTech, looking back now, how do you view those and where we are today in the correction cycle?

A You know, I viewed it through the lens of, I feel bad for a handful of friends who are probably going to struggle to maintain the kind of Press momentum. They have, but ultimately the world reverts to, are you creating value? You know, at this point, I think that there's much more clarity in, uh, in how people are viewing ed tech. Ultimately, I think that's a good thing for ed tech. Also, I think that there's education is one of the most powerful tools that, that you can use to change the way the world operates, but you need to need to understand how to really scale it and not just the idea of it. Uh, and so a little bit more Clarity and comfort with the reality of what it takes, I think is actually a very good thing long-term.

AI assessment note: “ultimately the world reverts to, are you creating value?”