The Exchanges

Q you in terms of how many times you've been right. He also mentioned that your thinking around the balance of business growth and capital burn is a must for the show. So let's start on this. How do you balance between the internal debate of that aggressive growth, but also with maintaining runway and capital efficiency? And how do you think about that from kind of maybe a meta perspective?

A Well, you know, it's like the old joke. Do you want to grow or do you want to be profitable? And every VC says yes. So, um, the way that I think about it is, is the capital that you're burning or deploying ultimately generating outsized long-term growth. So for example, when I think about building further infrastructure to process more secondhand clothing and ultimately put more supply in our marketplace, all the stuff that we do to burn capital in that context makes the opportunity three, four, five, seven, 10 years from now. Significantly bigger. I can tell you that the same decision to have a really fancy office or hire the ninth person on the finance team when we probably only need six, like those decisions actually don't create seven, 10 year enterprise value. And so I think I get very specific around do our investments, do the dollars that we burn really, really, really in our heart of hearts, either grow the market opportunity or Or grow our ability to attack that market opportunity, and that's, I think, the right way to deploy capital, because then everybody wins. I'm essentially deploying capital to drive long-term enterprise value. I think where companies get into trouble is they deploy capital, and it's very short-term, and it really doesn't grow the enterprise value. It just makes people feel like they have less work to do. We're really religious about that.

AI assessment note: “is the capital that you're burning or deploying ultimately generating outsized long-term growth”

Q Speaking of those big decisions, as I said, spoke to many of your investors before the show, and they mentioned your relationship with Reed Hastings. Tell me, what have been your big learnings from being advised by Reed, do you think?

A Well, I think, look, Reed and I have known each other in a long time. I think he's a super busy guy, so when I have my moments to spend time with him, you know, I really focus on, you know, he's 20 plus years ahead of me in my career. I ask him what, you know, what I'm missing, or what I should be thinking about, or I ask him, hey, when you were my age, when you were 39, what was on your mind, and I think he's incredibly astute at saying things that make me think either differently about my approach or confirm my instincts. I'll give you a very specific example. I was worried that I was getting stretched too thin on my management team, that I had too many direct reports, and I worried that I wasn't doing a good enough job with any of them, and I texted Reed, and I was like, hey, This is like what I'm thinking. Am I crazy? And he wrote back, if you have great people working for you, you can manage a lot of them. If you don't have great people working for you, you have too many direct reports. And then I wrote back, I was like, how many do you have? You know, and he wrote back, I think at the time he said he had seven and I had seven and he said, this is fine. And so what I appreciate about Reed is that he's very direct and very blunt and, and he has a point of view, which he shares unabashedly. That's been the most value. I mean, it's not as though he and I go on long walks ever…

AI assessment note: “if you have great people working for you, you can manage a lot of them”

Q Speaking of those big decisions, as I said, spoke to many of your investors before the show, and they mentioned your relationship with Reed Hastings. Tell me, what have been your big learnings from being advised by Reed, do you think?

A Well, I think, look, Reed and I have known each other in a long time. I think he's a super busy guy, so when I have my moments to spend time with him, you know, I really focus on, you know, he's 20 plus years ahead of me in my career. I ask him what, you know, what I'm missing, or what I should be thinking about, or I ask him, hey, when you were my age, when you were 39, what was on your mind, and I think he's incredibly astute at saying things that make me think either differently about my approach or confirm my instincts. I'll give you a very specific example. I was worried that I was getting stretched too thin on my management team, that I had too many direct reports, and I worried that I wasn't doing a good enough job with any of them, and I texted Reed, and I was like, hey, This is like what I'm thinking. Am I crazy? And he wrote back, if you have great people working for you, you can manage a lot of them. If you don't have great people working for you, you have too many direct reports. And then I wrote back, I was like, how many do you have? You know, and he wrote back, I think at the time he said he had seven and I had seven and he said, this is fine. And so what I appreciate about Reed is that he's very direct and very blunt and, and he has a point of view, which he shares unabashedly. That's been the most value. I mean, it's not as though he and I go on long walks ever…

AI assessment note: “I'll give you a very specific example. I was worried that I was getting stretched”

Q It immediately makes me think of the pivot that you did. I'm intrigued. Was it the data that led you to that conclusion, and did you find it a tough decision moving away from the initial core vision and going with reality and data, so to speak?

A Yeah, I think, look, pivots are a change in direction or change in activities in pursuit of the same strategy, and so my vision was to reinvent the second-hand market and make it Better for buyers and sellers in 2010. And what I realized was that building a peer to peer business was not the right way. And that the data and the qualitative feedback from customers suggested that there was a better way. And I think once we hit on that better way, it was obvious that that's the direction we should go. But I think what it did is it meant that we needed to be able to be flexible as an organization and make that shift to serve the customer better. So it was a combination of the quantitative data. And the qualitative insights of talking to customers.

AI assessment note: “once we hit on that better way, it was obvious that that's the direction”

Q and the pivot led you to the world of female and children's fashion and apparel, an industry that's not always loved by VCs, to put it mildly. And so the first question really is from Leah Buskey, who says, do you think it's fair or unfair that investors maybe have a difficulty in getting their head around this space? And do you think they're right or wrong in doing so?

A Look, I think VCs, tons of businesses, they look at themes that are happening in the world, and they're trying to find signal from noise, and they can't fund every business, and so I think they have to pick things for which they have some experience, and they have some insight around how they might be able to contribute and add value to the company, and a lot of them don't have experience with women's clothing. Surprise. And so, no, I don't think there's anything wrong with that. I think what's incumbent upon founders who want to pursue industries like that Is to find investors for whom they are naturally inclined to have an interest in those types of businesses, or they're interested in how those businesses get disrupted or change using the same types of tactics that were used. And so I think you're looking for a VC who has a flexible, adaptive mind who can say, hey, I saw how this happened in this other part of my world, and I can see how it can happen in your world. And you look, there are tons of amazing investors out there who get that. And so I think it's the way the ecosystem is supposed to work, frankly.

AI assessment note: “no, I don't think there's anything wrong with that.”

Q Has it been a challenge scaling yourself as CEO with the scaling of the firm itself?

A Well, I think you have to constantly be in a position where you're willing to learn new things and forget the way you used to do them. And so for me, it's been a process of unlearning some of the habits of running a small company and learning how to run a big company. And I think to the point that I made earlier, I think I used to rely often on the sheer force of personality and my ability to inspire in small groups. And now I have to figure out a much more pragmatic, scalable way to inspire the troops. And so that's a process. And I think I'm learning every day and I'm, I'm humble enough to try and get people to give me really candid feedback about how to get better.

AI assessment note: “it's been a process of unlearning some of the habits of running a small company”

Q In terms of those investors investing in those companies, often board seats are aligned with those investments. An element that Tim at Redpoint said, another area that you've mastered. I'd love to hear them. What were your core learnings in managing a board, as Tim said, with transparency and efficiency, but also feeling free to make efficient and streamlined decisions?

A Look, I think one of the things that takes a little while to learn is that the board hires you, right? They're your boss, and they hire you to build the company they invested in you to build. That means that they trust in your decision-making. They trust in your ability to hire a They trust in your ability to pivot and develop new strategies. And I think sometimes it's not a consensus driven approach, right? And so the approach I don't take at the board level is let's everybody get aligned and take a vote and we're all rowing in the same direction. It's, Hey, I'm in charge of the company. This is what I see, what I think we should do. Here's why I would love your feedback. And, you know, at this point now in the relationship, they know that I value that feedback and I internalize it and I help it make me better decisions. But There's a level of conviction I have around, they hired me to run the business, and I need to trust my, my instincts to do that, and then my job is to make sure that they're not surprised, you know, by the decisions that we're making, and they're not surprised by the data, or that the insights that we're drawing are correct, and I think that relationship is better, and so I have a great degree of freedom when I think about running the company, because that's what they invested in me to do, and I think entrepreneurs who start to feel like The opposite, that…

AI assessment note: “my job is to make sure that they're not surprised, you know, by the decisions”

Q You spoke there kind of about the kind of brute force and passion that you did to inspire the team. I really am stealing from Tim's thunder here, but he also told me that you've an ability to drive the business with this incredible passion and objectivity, sometimes seen as a paradox, passion and objectivity. How do you address the tough balance between the two, especially maybe when decision making?

A Well, I think it's tricky. I think you need to be passionate and have incredible conviction about the strategy that you're pursuing and why it's the right Approach and get everybody really excited about that. I think the other thing I've learned though, is it's okay to change your mind and be willing to look at data or look at what's changed in the world and say, all those things that I believe so passionately a year or two ago, I don't believe those things anymore. The world has changed and we need to change along with it. And I think the ability to be objective about that and then tell people in quite a bit of detail, hey, And we need to take a different approach and here's why. And then be equally passionate about that new approach is the most important thing, because I don't think it's wrong to change your mind, but I think it's wrong to not have conviction about the new approach. And I think so many leaders, they sit on the fence or, you know, they try and straddle a position. And I think where Tim and the board gives me some credit is I'm willing to look at the data, look at the world, change my mind. And then with the same gusto and As I had before, say, we got to go this different way, and that's how I think you bring people along with you.

AI assessment note: “ability to be objective about that and then... be equally passionate about that new approach”

Q Can I ask, how have your methods of empowerment and inspiration really changed over your founding and now with ThredUp today?

A Well, I think, you know, before ThredUp, you know, I was always involved in a leadership role in nearly everything that I did, whether it was being captain of the soccer team or the golf team or any of those things, you know, growing up. I was always the guy that Either stepped up to a leadership role or was pushed into one. But I think now, I think what's changed the most is when you start a company, you know, you think about your unto the breach speech, and there's only like two other people in the room. And then, so, you know, you lead by doing, and you lead by showing people this is what it means to start a company and what we're trying to accomplish. I think as a company grows, you know, now we have several thousand people across the globe. We have an office in the Ukraine and an office in San Francisco and an office in New York and distribution centers. I think how you communicate and inspire is different. And so today I do more of that through video and presentations and through my written work. And so I think your methods have to change as the scale of what you're trying to do grows. And I think that's been a big lesson for me.

AI assessment note: “today I do more of that through video and presentations and through my written work.”

Q Can I ask, how have your methods of empowerment and inspiration really changed over your founding and now with ThredUp today?

A Well, I think, you know, before ThredUp, you know, I was always involved in a leadership role in nearly everything that I did, whether it was being captain of the soccer team or the golf team or any of those things, you know, growing up. I was always the guy that Either stepped up to a leadership role or was pushed into one. But I think now, I think what's changed the most is when you start a company, you know, you think about your unto the breach speech, and there's only like two other people in the room. And then, so, you know, you lead by doing, and you lead by showing people this is what it means to start a company and what we're trying to accomplish. I think as a company grows, you know, now we have several thousand people across the globe. We have an office in the Ukraine and an office in San Francisco and an office in New York and distribution centers. I think how you communicate and inspire is different. And so today I do more of that through video and presentations and through my written work. And so I think your methods have to change as the scale of what you're trying to do grows. And I think that's been a big lesson for me.

AI assessment note: “today I do more of that through video and presentations and through my written work”

Q You spoke there kind of about the kind of brute force and passion that you did to inspire the team. I really am stealing from Tim's thunder here, but he also told me that you've an ability to drive the business with this incredible passion and objectivity, sometimes seen as a paradox, passion and objectivity. How do you address the tough balance between the two, especially maybe when decision making?

A Well, I think it's tricky. I think you need to be passionate and have incredible conviction about the strategy that you're pursuing and why it's the right Approach and get everybody really excited about that. I think the other thing I've learned though, is it's okay to change your mind and be willing to look at data or look at what's changed in the world and say, all those things that I believe so passionately a year or two ago, I don't believe those things anymore. The world has changed and we need to change along with it. And I think the ability to be objective about that and then tell people in quite a bit of detail, hey, And we need to take a different approach and here's why. And then be equally passionate about that new approach is the most important thing, because I don't think it's wrong to change your mind, but I think it's wrong to not have conviction about the new approach. And I think so many leaders, they sit on the fence or, you know, they try and straddle a position. And I think where Tim and the board gives me some credit is I'm willing to look at the data, look at the world, change my mind. And then with the same gusto and As I had before, say, we got to go this different way, and that's how I think you bring people along with you.

AI assessment note: “willing to look at the data, look at the world, change my mind”

Q Has it been a challenge scaling yourself as CEO with the scaling of the firm itself?

A Well, I think you have to constantly be in a position where you're willing to learn new things and forget the way you used to do them. And so for me, it's been a process of unlearning some of the habits of running a small company and learning how to run a big company. And I think to the point that I made earlier, I think I used to rely often on the sheer force of personality and my ability to inspire in small groups. And now I have to figure out a much more pragmatic, scalable way to inspire the troops. And so that's a process. And I think I'm learning every day and I'm, I'm humble enough to try and get people to give me really candid feedback about how to get better.

AI assessment note: “it's been a process of unlearning some of the habits of running a small company”

Q It immediately makes me think of the pivot that you did. I'm intrigued. Was it the data that led you to that conclusion, and did you find it a tough decision moving away from the initial core vision and going with reality and data, so to speak?

A Yeah, I think, look, pivots are a change in direction or change in activities in pursuit of the same strategy, and so my vision was to reinvent the second-hand market and make it Better for buyers and sellers in 2010. And what I realized was that building a peer to peer business was not the right way. And that the data and the qualitative feedback from customers suggested that there was a better way. And I think once we hit on that better way, it was obvious that that's the direction we should go. But I think what it did is it meant that we needed to be able to be flexible as an organization and make that shift to serve the customer better. So it was a combination of the quantitative data. And the qualitative insights of talking to customers.

AI assessment note: “the data and the qualitative feedback from customers suggested that there was a better way”

Q and the pivot led you to the world of female and children's fashion and apparel, an industry that's not always loved by VCs, to put it mildly. And so the first question really is from Leah Buskey, who says, do you think it's fair or unfair that investors maybe have a difficulty in getting their head around this space? And do you think they're right or wrong in doing so?

A Look, I think VCs, tons of businesses, they look at themes that are happening in the world, and they're trying to find signal from noise, and they can't fund every business, and so I think they have to pick things for which they have some experience, and they have some insight around how they might be able to contribute and add value to the company, and a lot of them don't have experience with women's clothing. Surprise. And so, no, I don't think there's anything wrong with that. I think what's incumbent upon founders who want to pursue industries like that Is to find investors for whom they are naturally inclined to have an interest in those types of businesses, or they're interested in how those businesses get disrupted or change using the same types of tactics that were used. And so I think you're looking for a VC who has a flexible, adaptive mind who can say, hey, I saw how this happened in this other part of my world, and I can see how it can happen in your world. And you look, there are tons of amazing investors out there who get that. And so I think it's the way the ecosystem is supposed to work, frankly.

AI assessment note: “no, I don't think there's anything wrong with that.”

Q In terms of those investors investing in those companies, often board seats are aligned with those investments. An element that Tim at Redpoint said, another area that you've mastered. I'd love to hear them. What were your core learnings in managing a board, as Tim said, with transparency and efficiency, but also feeling free to make efficient and streamlined decisions?

A Look, I think one of the things that takes a little while to learn is that the board hires you, right? They're your boss, and they hire you to build the company they invested in you to build. That means that they trust in your decision-making. They trust in your ability to hire a They trust in your ability to pivot and develop new strategies. And I think sometimes it's not a consensus driven approach, right? And so the approach I don't take at the board level is let's everybody get aligned and take a vote and we're all rowing in the same direction. It's, Hey, I'm in charge of the company. This is what I see, what I think we should do. Here's why I would love your feedback. And, you know, at this point now in the relationship, they know that I value that feedback and I internalize it and I help it make me better decisions. But There's a level of conviction I have around, they hired me to run the business, and I need to trust my, my instincts to do that, and then my job is to make sure that they're not surprised, you know, by the decisions that we're making, and they're not surprised by the data, or that the insights that we're drawing are correct, and I think that relationship is better, and so I have a great degree of freedom when I think about running the company, because that's what they invested in me to do, and I think entrepreneurs who start to feel like The opposite, that…

AI assessment note: “one of the things that takes a little while to learn is that the board hires you”

Q you in terms of how many times you've been right. He also mentioned that your thinking around the balance of business growth and capital burn is a must for the show. So let's start on this. How do you balance between the internal debate of that aggressive growth, but also with maintaining runway and capital efficiency? And how do you think about that from kind of maybe a meta perspective?

A Well, you know, it's like the old joke. Do you want to grow or do you want to be profitable? And every VC says yes. So, um, the way that I think about it is, is the capital that you're burning or deploying ultimately generating outsized long-term growth. So for example, when I think about building further infrastructure to process more secondhand clothing and ultimately put more supply in our marketplace, all the stuff that we do to burn capital in that context makes the opportunity three, four, five, seven, 10 years from now. Significantly bigger. I can tell you that the same decision to have a really fancy office or hire the ninth person on the finance team when we probably only need six, like those decisions actually don't create seven, 10 year enterprise value. And so I think I get very specific around do our investments, do the dollars that we burn really, really, really in our heart of hearts, either grow the market opportunity or Or grow our ability to attack that market opportunity, and that's, I think, the right way to deploy capital, because then everybody wins. I'm essentially deploying capital to drive long-term enterprise value. I think where companies get into trouble is they deploy capital, and it's very short-term, and it really doesn't grow the enterprise value. It just makes people feel like they have less work to do. We're really religious about that.

AI assessment note: “is the capital that you're burning or deploying ultimately generating outsized long-term growth.”

Q You said that about internalizing that feedback. You've said to me before that your board is right. 50% of the time. Very, very specifically, 50%. How do you literally determine which 50% is right, and what advice do you have in terms of that kind of digestion process?

A Well, I mean, I said, you know, I, uh, it might be 54%. You know, I'm not I'm not sure, but, but, you know, I think, I think that, look, I think the board, you know, they, they get incredible market intelligence. They talk to lots of founders. They are in different circles. And so their perspective is quite valuable, but they obviously aren't in the company a hundred hours a week like I am. And so their ability to be precise in their feedback and their direction, you know, can only go so far. And I think that they know that, but every time I have a board meeting, the board asks deceptively simple questions. Things that we either take for granted or that we have believed for so long that we forgot why we believe it. And that level of feedback and inquisitiveness, right, helps us say, hey, do we still believe the thing we used to believe? And so sometimes the board is right. I mean, sometimes the pushback is really fair. And other times it's, hey, you guys are missing a whole bunch of context that you could not possibly have gotten from the board deck and, right, or the conversations we've had, and here's why that doesn't make sense. And I think the challenge is understanding what When, and it's a challenge I struggle with, and I think most CEOs will tell you the same thing, is when is the board having a moment where it's really insightful, and when are they having a moment when …

AI assessment note: “when is the board having a moment where it's really insightful, and when are they”

Q of ThredUp, and how that's evolved and developed. So I want to start today on this, and I was chatting to Tim Haley, founder at Redpoint, and he said, check this out, you were one of the most naturally talented leaders he's worked with, and as he said, he's been around for a while. So how does great leadership kind of embody and mean to you? Let's start with that.

A Well, that's very nice of Tim to say. I think that the natural part, you know, I don't, I'm not sure where that comes from. I think, My philosophy, though, is ultimately leadership is about inspiring other people to do their best work and to want to do their best work with you, and so I think I've always been a guy that focused on recruiting people and inspiring people in ways where they can do extraordinary things, and I think great leadership is ultimately about that because if you can leverage the immense talents of the people around you and get them all focused on doing something incredible, you know, you can certainly accomplish more than you could by yourself. That's generally my philosophy is giving people the opportunity to do incredible things and inspiring them to, to, to want to do them.

AI assessment note: “leadership is about inspiring other people to do their best work”

Q of ThredUp, and how that's evolved and developed. So I want to start today on this, and I was chatting to Tim Haley, founder at Redpoint, and he said, check this out, you were one of the most naturally talented leaders he's worked with, and as he said, he's been around for a while. So how does great leadership kind of embody and mean to you? Let's start with that.

A Well, that's very nice of Tim to say. I think that the natural part, you know, I don't, I'm not sure where that comes from. I think, My philosophy, though, is ultimately leadership is about inspiring other people to do their best work and to want to do their best work with you, and so I think I've always been a guy that focused on recruiting people and inspiring people in ways where they can do extraordinary things, and I think great leadership is ultimately about that because if you can leverage the immense talents of the people around you and get them all focused on doing something incredible, you know, you can certainly accomplish more than you could by yourself. That's generally my philosophy is giving people the opportunity to do incredible things and inspiring them to, to, to want to do them.

AI assessment note: “leadership is about inspiring other people to do their best work”

Q You said that about internalizing that feedback. You've said to me before that your board is right. 50% of the time. Very, very specifically, 50%. How do you literally determine which 50% is right, and what advice do you have in terms of that kind of digestion process?

A Well, I mean, I said, you know, I, uh, it might be 54%. You know, I'm not I'm not sure, but, but, you know, I think, I think that, look, I think the board, you know, they, they get incredible market intelligence. They talk to lots of founders. They are in different circles. And so their perspective is quite valuable, but they obviously aren't in the company a hundred hours a week like I am. And so their ability to be precise in their feedback and their direction, you know, can only go so far. And I think that they know that, but every time I have a board meeting, the board asks deceptively simple questions. Things that we either take for granted or that we have believed for so long that we forgot why we believe it. And that level of feedback and inquisitiveness, right, helps us say, hey, do we still believe the thing we used to believe? And so sometimes the board is right. I mean, sometimes the pushback is really fair. And other times it's, hey, you guys are missing a whole bunch of context that you could not possibly have gotten from the board deck and, right, or the conversations we've had, and here's why that doesn't make sense. And I think the challenge is understanding what When, and it's a challenge I struggle with, and I think most CEOs will tell you the same thing, is when is the board having a moment where it's really insightful, and when are they having a moment when …

AI assessment note: “when is the board having a moment where it's really insightful”

Q No, absolutely. I agree on helping you see around those corners. In terms of the fundraising journey itself, I'm intrigued. How did the rounds differ from round to round? I believe you're on series E now. So kind of going through those rounds, how did they differ? And how did your wants and kind of requirements from the investors differ at each stage, do you think?

A Well, I think in the early days, you're looking for people who can suspend disbelief and see the future and are willing to be on that journey with you. And I think that their bet is very much on the entrepreneur and the, on the team and the opportunity. I think as you get more mature, right, there's more data to look at. And so the process is more data intensive, right? I mean, it's not anything, it's not rocket science. I think what I have found in my journey that's probably some others could relate to, but is that, you know, every round has a different level of difficulty, and it's been surprising to have, you know, my early rounds be challenging, then the rounds be easier to do, then some of these later rounds being challenging. So I hope I'm in the next cycle, you know, where investors are just going to be throwing money at me. But, you know, it's funny how it does ebb and flow. I think sometimes the narrative is, Hey, you raise these rounds, and they just get easier and easier and easier because the capital, you know, you have to deploy gets bigger, and it's not true. It's hard every time you're asking folks to pick you over just the two or three other investments they might do in their year, and I think that's one thing that people, I think, underestimate about the fundraising process is, you know, as you get later in the process, the investors do fewer deals. You have to…

AI assessment note: “in the early days, you're looking for people who can suspend disbelief... as you get more mature, right, there's more data”

Q No, absolutely. I agree on helping you see around those corners. In terms of the fundraising journey itself, I'm intrigued. How did the rounds differ from round to round? I believe you're on series E now. So kind of going through those rounds, how did they differ? And how did your wants and kind of requirements from the investors differ at each stage, do you think?

A Well, I think in the early days, you're looking for people who can suspend disbelief and see the future and are willing to be on that journey with you. And I think that their bet is very much on the entrepreneur and the, on the team and the opportunity. I think as you get more mature, right, there's more data to look at. And so the process is more data intensive, right? I mean, it's not anything, it's not rocket science. I think what I have found in my journey that's probably some others could relate to, but is that, you know, every round has a different level of difficulty, and it's been surprising to have, you know, my early rounds be challenging, then the rounds be easier to do, then some of these later rounds being challenging. So I hope I'm in the next cycle, you know, where investors are just going to be throwing money at me. But, you know, it's funny how it does ebb and flow. I think sometimes the narrative is, Hey, you raise these rounds, and they just get easier and easier and easier because the capital, you know, you have to deploy gets bigger, and it's not true. It's hard every time you're asking folks to pick you over just the two or three other investments they might do in their year, and I think that's one thing that people, I think, underestimate about the fundraising process is, you know, as you get later in the process, the investors do fewer deals. You have to…

AI assessment note: “in the early days, you're looking for people who can suspend disbelief”

Q What do you think is the right communication flow when you do choose to go against a strategic advice point from the board?

A Well, I think it's just making clear that you have a point of view. It's informed by the data. It's informed by the research that you've done, your instincts, right? All those things. And look, I think the CEO making pivots or big decisions, the reality is sometimes you have to be contrarian, and you have to be right. I get credit for having been right a number of times, and so I think the board trusts me more now to make some of those more contentious decisions. But, you know, I think if you're a CEO making those decisions, and you're wrong a lot, then I think the board starts to doubt those instincts. But part of it's I've been good, and part of it's I've been a little lucky.

AI assessment note: “making clear that you have a point of view. It's informed by the data.”

Q What do you think is the right communication flow when you do choose to go against a strategic advice point from the board?

A Well, I think it's just making clear that you have a point of view. It's informed by the data. It's informed by the research that you've done, your instincts, right? All those things. And look, I think the CEO making pivots or big decisions, the reality is sometimes you have to be contrarian, and you have to be right. I get credit for having been right a number of times, and so I think the board trusts me more now to make some of those more contentious decisions. But, you know, I think if you're a CEO making those decisions, and you're wrong a lot, then I think the board starts to doubt those instincts. But part of it's I've been good, and part of it's I've been a little lucky.

AI assessment note: “making clear that you have a point of view. It's informed by the data.”