The Exchanges

Q love that kind of leadership principle of kind of the ultimate responsibility given to the employee. I guess my question is, and it's actually one from David at LVP. He said before about being the least powerful CEO. And so I'm really intrigued when you think about the least powerful CEO. How do you think about that? And what does that mean in terms of how you engage with leadership?

A Well, sort of a simple idea, you know, behind that phrase is that it's this idea that the more decision the team makes, then, of course, the less I, as a CEO, make. And ultimately, like, if I made no decisions, then, and all the decisions would be made by the teams, then I would be sort of the world's least powerful CEO. So why do I think it's a good thing teams make most, if not all the decisions? So there's a couple of reasons. Well, the first one is that, you know, ultimately, it's the team's Who are kind of closest and the game developers who are closest to the players to become end users of the games. And, and they obviously know what is the best thing to do for the game and what's the best thing to do for the players. Therefore, I would argue that the decisions that these people make, they are of higher quality. They're just better decisions than those of the people at the higher level of management make. Then also like if you just give these teams like a complete freedom and responsibility to make these decisions, And they don't need to ask for approvals from anybody else. It just means that, you know, because there's no approval loop, they can just execute faster, you know, because they don't need to ask anybody. And then thirdly, if you do kind of give that complete trust to the teams, it's just a more motivating and rewarding environment for the best creative people t…

AI assessment note: “the more decision the team makes, then, of course, the less I, as a CEO, make.”

Q before the show, and Kevin actually, Excel. And they mentioned the first three games actually not being hits and, you know, ended up having to kill them. How do you deal with those really tough times, having to kill games that you put a lot of work and love into? How do you deal with those very hard times, and how do you kind of communicate that to the team?

A Well, I think the most important thing is that you just have to be, like, completely honest and open towards everybody. And, and, you know, you're transparent to be bored about things, and you try to, like, uh, Communicate as much as you can, and especially, like, you, you communicate about the failures, and just being, like, honest and open about it. And it's a cliche, but it's, where's the news? The quicker you should tell it to everybody. I think that's a great, great advice. And then, like, internally, you know, the same thing. So, I mean, you're right, I mean, outside looking in, like, it might feel that Supercell was an instant success, but I guarantee you that in the first two years, it definitely didn't feel like that, because, I mean, as you said, like, the first three games that he put out didn't work at all. And, and in those situations, you know, we, we were really open with everybody. Like everybody knew like how much money we had left in the bank and how much we were burning per month and, uh, make sure that everybody knows exactly where we are. But at the same time, of course, you want to keep on reminding people about this fundamental things that, you know, we believe that will make us eventually successful. And for us, those things were, you know, just the quality of people we had, the quality of the teams and, and all of those amazing games that we were workin…

AI assessment note: “most important thing is that you just have to be, like, completely honest and open”

Q love that kind of leadership principle of kind of the ultimate responsibility given to the employee. I guess my question is, and it's actually one from David at LVP. He said before about being the least powerful CEO. And so I'm really intrigued when you think about the least powerful CEO. How do you think about that? And what does that mean in terms of how you engage with leadership?

A Well, sort of a simple idea, you know, behind that phrase is that it's this idea that the more decision the team makes, then, of course, the less I, as a CEO, make. And ultimately, like, if I made no decisions, then, and all the decisions would be made by the teams, then I would be sort of the world's least powerful CEO. So why do I think it's a good thing teams make most, if not all the decisions? So there's a couple of reasons. Well, the first one is that, you know, ultimately, it's the team's Who are kind of closest and the game developers who are closest to the players to become end users of the games. And, and they obviously know what is the best thing to do for the game and what's the best thing to do for the players. Therefore, I would argue that the decisions that these people make, they are of higher quality. They're just better decisions than those of the people at the higher level of management make. Then also like if you just give these teams like a complete freedom and responsibility to make these decisions, And they don't need to ask for approvals from anybody else. It just means that, you know, because there's no approval loop, they can just execute faster, you know, because they don't need to ask anybody. And then thirdly, if you do kind of give that complete trust to the teams, it's just a more motivating and rewarding environment for the best creative people t…

AI assessment note: “the more decision the team makes, then, of course, the less I, as a CEO, make.”

Q Can I ask, what's the most challenging thing about sustaining it? Because it seems feasible within small teams and within a small number of people, but as you scale, this is more and more complex. What's the challenging thing about retaining that core element with scale?

A Well, I think it probably doesn't even come from scale. I mean, as long as you just stay laser focused on the recruiting bit, and you stay laser focused on the culture, I think most challenging moments, at least what we've experienced, are these things Then, you know, when something isn't going as, as you would like it to go, like, you know, it's easy to talk about all of these wonderful things like independence and trust, like when things are going well, but, you know, but the real test of that is when things aren't going as well, and especially if things aren't going as well, and then you even, even disagree with what the team is doing, and that's the ultimate test of do you really trust, you know, that team, and at Supercell, we've kind of borrowed this phrase, I think it's from Amazon, where they use this phrase, that you disagree with, And you commit, you know, meaning that, okay, I disagree with what you guys are doing, but I'm gonna, like, do everything I can to make you guys be successful, and I'm gonna support that. And I think you have to go through at least a couple of, like, situations where, you know, this is the case, and then it hopefully becomes part of the culture.

AI assessment note: “most challenging moments, at least what we've experienced, are these things Then, you know, when something isn't going”

Q show, and they said how kind of incredibly competitive you are, but also how humble you are. And the question that I always think is, like, should you, when it comes to competition, Be very aware of your competition, constantly monitor them, or should you focus on your own game, forget everyone else, and just keep your head down? What do you think is the right way to approach competition?

A Well, it's a good question because, like, I, as a person, I'm quite competitive. I admit that. But, like, think about competition from Supercell's point of view. Like, I try to, like, not to focus on competition too much. And, you know, the reason is that I believe that if you follow competition, the risk is that you may become, like, overly reactive, like, what Happens around you, and essentially, the best you can be is just to be a fast follower, but if you're a fast follower, then by definition, you will always follow somebody else. You will never, ever lead, and you know, that's my big concern about, like, being overly focused on competition, so of course, we want to stay humble, and of course, we want to keep our eyes open and play games from everybody else and all that, but at the same time, I think it's even more important to stay focused on On what we believe are the games we want to build, and you know, staying kind of true to our vision, and you know, the way we do things.

AI assessment note: “I try to, like, not to focus on competition too much.”

Q before the show, and Kevin actually, Excel. And they mentioned the first three games actually not being hits and, you know, ended up having to kill them. How do you deal with those really tough times, having to kill games that you put a lot of work and love into? How do you deal with those very hard times, and how do you kind of communicate that to the team?

A Well, I think the most important thing is that you just have to be, like, completely honest and open towards everybody. And, and, you know, you're transparent to be bored about things, and you try to, like, uh, Communicate as much as you can, and especially, like, you, you communicate about the failures, and just being, like, honest and open about it. And it's a cliche, but it's, where's the news? The quicker you should tell it to everybody. I think that's a great, great advice. And then, like, internally, you know, the same thing. So, I mean, you're right, I mean, outside looking in, like, it might feel that Supercell was an instant success, but I guarantee you that in the first two years, it definitely didn't feel like that, because, I mean, as you said, like, the first three games that he put out didn't work at all. And, and in those situations, you know, we, we were really open with everybody. Like everybody knew like how much money we had left in the bank and how much we were burning per month and, uh, make sure that everybody knows exactly where we are. But at the same time, of course, you want to keep on reminding people about this fundamental things that, you know, we believe that will make us eventually successful. And for us, those things were, you know, just the quality of people we had, the quality of the teams and, and all of those amazing games that we were workin…

AI assessment note: “you just have to be, like, completely honest and open towards everybody.”

Q How do you make failure an accepted part of development within the company? Is it just through saying, hey, it's okay to fail, you're not going to be punished? How does one engender that in the culture?

A Well, you know, we've tried All kinds of, like, hilarious things, I think, to make it as safe as possible. It all started, then they kind of killed our first game. I think it was back in 2011, and I still remember it was this lunch table conversation, and the lead of that game that was just killed, like, say that, hey, I want to get the company together, and I want to do this kind of post-mortem session, and I want to explain to everybody, like, what we learned through this failure, and I want to explain, like, what happened, and And then I thought to myself over at lunch hour, oh, it's going to be a bit of a sad company meeting. I need to do something to cheer it up. And of course, we were a lot smaller about those days, maybe like 30 people or so. And then just, you know, I got this idea that, hey, you know, I'm going to make it a bit of more funnier meeting. I'm going to go and just buy a bottle of champagne for everybody in the team. And then that's what I did. And it just crossed my mind. And over lunch hour, I went to the shop and bought a couple of bottles of champagne and handed them over to the guys, like, because they had faith. Sort of to celebrate the failure. And I think everybody sort of thought it was quite funny. And then that actually became a tradition in the company, which we sort of still have. So whenever we kind of like fail, we actually do celebrate, like…

AI assessment note: “whenever we kind of like fail, we actually do celebrate... celebrating the learnings”

Q And now, I would love to start today, though, and especially given the fact that it's, you know, nearly Supercell's 10th anniversary, let's start with a little bit of founding story. How did you come to found Supercell, and what was that founding moment for you?

A Uh, sure. So, well, Supercell is not the first games company that I founded, so Me and a few others, we founded this company called Sumia already back in the year 2000. And then later on, we sold it to a company called Digital Chocolate in 2004. And Digital Chocolate was a great company that was funded by a really well-known VCs like Sequoia and Kleiner Perkins. And it was also founded by a game industry legend, a guy called Trip Hawkins, who many would know as the founder of Electronic Arts and So a true legend and a great, great person. And then, you know, this company, Digital Chocolate, it grew to like around 400 people over the time, and I worked as a president after the acquisition, actually for almost six years after we had been acquired. And then Digital Chocolate, I guess the biggest learning for me during that time was that ultimately the most important thing about creating games is having a really great team. So if you have that great team, if you have also a bit of luck Then ultimately, like, everything else will fall in place. But if you don't have a great team, then there's just no chance that you will be successful. So, you know, over the years, and it took me many years to realize this, it became clear that, you know, ultimately creating games is all about these creative teams. But then the irony, I think, about many games companies, and, you know, ours at the t…

AI assessment note: “now we can get to the point like what led to the foundation of Supercell”

Q Can I ask, and I hope it's okay off schedule, but, like, when you think about, kind of, The optimism, and you're an incredibly optimistic person. When you think about risk, how do you evaluate and think about your own relationship to risk?

A Well, how I think about it is, I think, like, in my opinion, like, companies, I don't think they ultimately fail because they take risks. I think fail because they stop taking risks. And, you know, therefore, I think it's extremely important for, you know, companies to have this culture which actually encourages risk-taking. And the most important part of encouraging risk-taking, I think, is how the company deals with failure. And you have to make it, like, completely safe to fail in the company, because if you think about it, like, if a company, like, never, ever fails, essentially means that they probably aren't trying to do a kind of hard enough thing, or the bar just isn't, like, high enough, and that they're not trying to, like, you know, innovate. And all of those things would be really, really scary. So I think failure actually is a really good thing. I mean, if I One day I would wake up and realize that, oh, you know, we actually haven't failed, like, not once in the last year. That would be a really scary moment for me, because that would lead me to believe that we aren't taking enough risk. And if we aren't taking enough risk, I don't think we can create the next big hit game either.

AI assessment note: “companies, I don't think they ultimately fail because they take risks.”

Q is he's one of the most focused leaders I've ever worked with, and so when it comes to focus, you know, you could have spread like crazy, especially in terms of geographies, and you pause in terms of kind of expansion to China, and so I'd love to hear what do you think allows you to be so focused, and how do you think about keeping the core the core?

A Well, I have to say that, you know, staying focused, it's definitely not something that comes naturally from me, and it's, it's something that I have had to learn from the others, and there's been a couple of guys, especially at Supercell, who've been, like, just amazing at being able to focus on the most important things, and, you know, and they've been really inspiring to me, and, you know, I've tried my best to learn from those, those people, and I, I think the key is that you just try to keep in mind, like, what is kind of the most important thing, and oftentimes what that means is that You know, focus is not saying, like, what you do, it's, it's saying no to all of those 10 things that are of interest to you, and what you would love to do, like, in addition to whatever thing you're doing right now. And, and, you know, like, and for, like, really, like, say, optimistic, and people who get excited about all kinds of things, many entrepreneurs like myself are like, you know, that's a hard thing to do. It's just hard to say no to stuff, but I, I've just, over the years, I've learned the hard way that, That's probably one of the most important things and skills you need to learn. You know, just say no and try to, like, keep yourself and your company focused on, on just, you know, one thing. Because, I mean, if you can spread your thinking and resources and efforts to thin, then…

AI assessment note: “staying focused, it's definitely not something that comes naturally from me”

Q I do want to touch on one final thing before the quickfire, and it's when it comes to, kind of, we mentioned success there, and, um, you've been very public before in terms of, kind of, you know, tax returns, and kind of been very generous philanthropically. I'd love to hear, how do you think about your relationship to money, and how has that changed over time?

A Well, I think the one thing that That has changed from a times when I, you know, had absolutely no money. It's this huge feeling of, um, responsibility. So, you know, I feel that I've been like very, very, very lucky in my life. I've got to work with, uh, some really amazing, talented people and the teams and who've created these great games. And of course they've been also financially very successful. And that also, also has made me in turn successful. And now I feel that the overarching feeling that I have is that I think that I have this Very big responsibility to use kind of all of this kind of wealth in the best possible way and actually, like, do something good with it, because I, I've been so lucky in my life, so it really, like, brings this very big sense of responsibility.

AI assessment note: “one thing that That has changed... It's this huge feeling of, um, responsibility.”

Q How do you make failure an accepted part of development within the company? Is it just through saying, hey, it's okay to fail, you're not going to be punished? How does one engender that in the culture?

A Well, you know, we've tried All kinds of, like, hilarious things, I think, to make it as safe as possible. It all started, then they kind of killed our first game. I think it was back in 2011, and I still remember it was this lunch table conversation, and the lead of that game that was just killed, like, say that, hey, I want to get the company together, and I want to do this kind of post-mortem session, and I want to explain to everybody, like, what we learned through this failure, and I want to explain, like, what happened, and And then I thought to myself over at lunch hour, oh, it's going to be a bit of a sad company meeting. I need to do something to cheer it up. And of course, we were a lot smaller about those days, maybe like 30 people or so. And then just, you know, I got this idea that, hey, you know, I'm going to make it a bit of more funnier meeting. I'm going to go and just buy a bottle of champagne for everybody in the team. And then that's what I did. And it just crossed my mind. And over lunch hour, I went to the shop and bought a couple of bottles of champagne and handed them over to the guys, like, because they had faith. Sort of to celebrate the failure. And I think everybody sort of thought it was quite funny. And then that actually became a tradition in the company, which we sort of still have. So whenever we kind of like fail, we actually do celebrate, like…

AI assessment note: “We are celebrating the learnings that comes from that failure.”

Q is he's one of the most focused leaders I've ever worked with, and so when it comes to focus, you know, you could have spread like crazy, especially in terms of geographies, and you pause in terms of kind of expansion to China, and so I'd love to hear what do you think allows you to be so focused, and how do you think about keeping the core the core?

A Well, I have to say that, you know, staying focused, it's definitely not something that comes naturally from me, and it's, it's something that I have had to learn from the others, and there's been a couple of guys, especially at Supercell, who've been, like, just amazing at being able to focus on the most important things, and, you know, and they've been really inspiring to me, and, you know, I've tried my best to learn from those, those people, and I, I think the key is that you just try to keep in mind, like, what is kind of the most important thing, and oftentimes what that means is that You know, focus is not saying, like, what you do, it's, it's saying no to all of those 10 things that are of interest to you, and what you would love to do, like, in addition to whatever thing you're doing right now. And, and, you know, like, and for, like, really, like, say, optimistic, and people who get excited about all kinds of things, many entrepreneurs like myself are like, you know, that's a hard thing to do. It's just hard to say no to stuff, but I, I've just, over the years, I've learned the hard way that, That's probably one of the most important things and skills you need to learn. You know, just say no and try to, like, keep yourself and your company focused on, on just, you know, one thing. Because, I mean, if you can spread your thinking and resources and efforts to thin, then…

AI assessment note: “focus is not saying, like, what you do, it's, it's saying no”

Q Can I ask, and I hope it's okay off schedule, but, like, when you think about, kind of, The optimism, and you're an incredibly optimistic person. When you think about risk, how do you evaluate and think about your own relationship to risk?

A Well, how I think about it is, I think, like, in my opinion, like, companies, I don't think they ultimately fail because they take risks. I think fail because they stop taking risks. And, you know, therefore, I think it's extremely important for, you know, companies to have this culture which actually encourages risk-taking. And the most important part of encouraging risk-taking, I think, is how the company deals with failure. And you have to make it, like, completely safe to fail in the company, because if you think about it, like, if a company, like, never, ever fails, essentially means that they probably aren't trying to do a kind of hard enough thing, or the bar just isn't, like, high enough, and that they're not trying to, like, you know, innovate. And all of those things would be really, really scary. So I think failure actually is a really good thing. I mean, if I One day I would wake up and realize that, oh, you know, we actually haven't failed, like, not once in the last year. That would be a really scary moment for me, because that would lead me to believe that we aren't taking enough risk. And if we aren't taking enough risk, I don't think we can create the next big hit game either.

AI assessment note: “if we aren't taking enough risk, I don't think we can create the next big hit”

Q slightly personal, but I'm too intrigued, you know, your humility is something that Sean threw in everyone I spoke to, and, you know, very evident. And despite the incredible success with superstar, it's like, how do you think about kind of ego within leadership and bluntly ensuring you retain that humility as you have done with the scaling of companies, revenues, and, you know, the success that comes with it?

A Well, I, I think I'm, guess I'm, I'm lucky in a, in a sense that I, I get to work Like, with people who are extremely humble, and, and, you know, that's, of course, inspiring, and, and that sort of spreads, and then I also get to, as I said, I get to work in, in an industry which is, like, full of those type of people, and which is, like, hyper competitive, and, and there really, like, aren't, like, almost any entry barriers to games. I mean, it's pretty easy to sort of, like, at least in theory, to kind of get in and, and create a game, and you just, like, have this feeling that, that, you know, you, I mean, you just can't afford to have an ego. All you can do is, is To kind of stay humble, because again, like, if you start to get, like, too full of yourself, that won't lead to anything good, not in our industry, and I don't think in life in general.

AI assessment note: “you just, like, have this feeling that, that, you, I mean, you just can't afford to have an ego.”

Q didn't work, you then had Three games which absolutely knocked it out of the park, which you and I both know is very, very rare to have three hits in a row continuously. The question I have there is, like, you then have very confident teams. How do you think about ensuring there's a sense of realism and teams don't get overconfident because they've suddenly had three wins on trot?

A Well, that's a great question, you know, and ironically, like, I think, at least in our industry, in the games industry, like, the more successful you are, the harder it becomes to Create the next hit game, I feel. Because, you know, when you're gonna start, and there are no expectations, and you kind of have nothing to lose, there's, like, no pressure as such. So, uh, it's somehow, it's easier to just, you know, follow your instincts, and just, you know, create the game, and ship it, and see how it works, and that's certainly what we did, like, very early on, and in a way, I'd like us to still operate that way, so I'll not think about, like, you know, past or future too much, but, you know, focus on the present, and try to build the best possible game, and Act on our instincts, and put it out, and see how it works, and you know, sometimes it works, and then, and oftentimes it, it doesn't, but you know, like, as I said, you know, it becomes maybe slightly harder when you have these, like, mega hits, like, on your belt, and, and, you know, games industries, it's such a, like, competitive industry, it's, our industries fill, like, so many fantastic teams, and smart peoples, and, you know, I feel that, that I, I think is actually helpful, because I think, at least in our company, you know, there's a very strong awareness of that fact, and we understand very well that we, In our in…

AI assessment note: “the minute you think that you kind of know it all, that's gonna be the end”

Q Can I ask, what's the most challenging thing about sustaining it? Because it seems feasible within small teams and within a small number of people, but as you scale, this is more and more complex. What's the challenging thing about retaining that core element with scale?

A Well, I think it probably doesn't even come from scale. I mean, as long as you just stay laser focused on the recruiting bit, and you stay laser focused on the culture, I think most challenging moments, at least what we've experienced, are these things Then, you know, when something isn't going as, as you would like it to go, like, you know, it's easy to talk about all of these wonderful things like independence and trust, like when things are going well, but, you know, but the real test of that is when things aren't going as well, and especially if things aren't going as well, and then you even, even disagree with what the team is doing, and that's the ultimate test of do you really trust, you know, that team, and at Supercell, we've kind of borrowed this phrase, I think it's from Amazon, where they use this phrase, that you disagree with, And you commit, you know, meaning that, okay, I disagree with what you guys are doing, but I'm gonna, like, do everything I can to make you guys be successful, and I'm gonna support that. And I think you have to go through at least a couple of, like, situations where, you know, this is the case, and then it hopefully becomes part of the culture.

AI assessment note: “the real test of that is when things aren't going as well”

Q didn't work, you then had Three games which absolutely knocked it out of the park, which you and I both know is very, very rare to have three hits in a row continuously. The question I have there is, like, you then have very confident teams. How do you think about ensuring there's a sense of realism and teams don't get overconfident because they've suddenly had three wins on trot?

A Well, that's a great question, you know, and ironically, like, I think, at least in our industry, in the games industry, like, the more successful you are, the harder it becomes to Create the next hit game, I feel. Because, you know, when you're gonna start, and there are no expectations, and you kind of have nothing to lose, there's, like, no pressure as such. So, uh, it's somehow, it's easier to just, you know, follow your instincts, and just, you know, create the game, and ship it, and see how it works, and that's certainly what we did, like, very early on, and in a way, I'd like us to still operate that way, so I'll not think about, like, you know, past or future too much, but, you know, focus on the present, and try to build the best possible game, and Act on our instincts, and put it out, and see how it works, and you know, sometimes it works, and then, and oftentimes it, it doesn't, but you know, like, as I said, you know, it becomes maybe slightly harder when you have these, like, mega hits, like, on your belt, and, and, you know, games industries, it's such a, like, competitive industry, it's, our industries fill, like, so many fantastic teams, and smart peoples, and, you know, I feel that, that I, I think is actually helpful, because I think, at least in our company, you know, there's a very strong awareness of that fact, and we understand very well that we, In our in…

AI assessment note: “the minute you think that you kind of know it all, that's gonna be the end”

Q you in terms of that kind of becoming slightly easier. Can I ask one thing that I personally really struggle with is like being disliked. I end up saying yes to far too many things because I'm afraid of being disliked in any respect. As a leader, how do you think about, kind of, getting comfortable with sometimes being disliked and not everyone approving or agreeing or liking your decision?

A I think a lot of us, like, are like you in, in that sense, and maybe it's something that comes from a couple of things. So, of course, it comes from experience. I mean, if you, like, truly believe in what you are doing, then ultimately, like, you just have to, like, follow your instincts, and there really is, like, no other way, and, and, you know, that's what I always tell to, like, say, you know, up and coming Entrepreneurs or people who, you know, maybe I'm an investor to their company these days. I always tell them that one of my biggest advices is to founders is that, you know, listen to everybody, try to get the feedback, but then ultimately, you have to be the one who decides. I mean, it's your company, and no one knows better than you what's the right thing to do for the company, and just, you know, follow, ultimately, like, follow what your gut tells you to do. And, you know, sometimes it leads to a situations where you can't please everybody, and that's fine. And again, I think it's something that, you know, comes from From those type of, uh, experiences.

AI assessment note: “sometimes it leads to a situations where you can't please everybody, and that's fine”

Q Question that I just have to ask is like, How do you create accountability within teams when they have incomplete ownership, and how do you think about inserting that accountability?

A Well, I think it all comes down to, like, what type of people you hire. I mean, it really comes down to that, and it's ultimately the people and their everyday actions that create this culture. But over time, if you hire the right type of people who have that accountability, have that huge sense of responsibility, Over the time, it will create that type of culture. At some point, you'll get this critical mass of people who think like that, and then you just need to kind of keep that going, and you need to keep nurturing that type of culture. And, you know, I've also noticed that the more kind of you trust people, I mean, people also, like, the way they can respond is that they, they get this huge sense of responsibility. Like, most people get it sort of almost automatically if they are just, if they get this feeling that they are trusted 100%.

AI assessment note: “I think it all comes down to, like, what type of people you hire.”

Q And now, I would love to start today, though, and especially given the fact that it's, you know, nearly Supercell's 10th anniversary, let's start with a little bit of founding story. How did you come to found Supercell, and what was that founding moment for you?

A Uh, sure. So, well, Supercell is not the first games company that I founded, so Me and a few others, we founded this company called Sumia already back in the year 2000. And then later on, we sold it to a company called Digital Chocolate in 2004. And Digital Chocolate was a great company that was funded by a really well-known VCs like Sequoia and Kleiner Perkins. And it was also founded by a game industry legend, a guy called Trip Hawkins, who many would know as the founder of Electronic Arts and So a true legend and a great, great person. And then, you know, this company, Digital Chocolate, it grew to like around 400 people over the time, and I worked as a president after the acquisition, actually for almost six years after we had been acquired. And then Digital Chocolate, I guess the biggest learning for me during that time was that ultimately the most important thing about creating games is having a really great team. So if you have that great team, if you have also a bit of luck Then ultimately, like, everything else will fall in place. But if you don't have a great team, then there's just no chance that you will be successful. So, you know, over the years, and it took me many years to realize this, it became clear that, you know, ultimately creating games is all about these creative teams. But then the irony, I think, about many games companies, and, you know, ours at the t…

AI assessment note: “And now we can get to the point like what led to the foundation”

Q Yeah, no, I'm totally with you on those three. Which leader do you most look up to, and why?

A Well, as I said, I'm, I've been very, Lucky in my life that I've gotten to work with, like, so many amazing people, and, and the leaders that I probably most look up to these days, I mean, they're all at Supercell, because, of course, I get the chance to work with them with every day, and, and, and many of their, they don't have even the lead as a title, but they are just leaders or drivers, like, you know, as people, and, and, you know, these people who, you know, just do amazing things, like, you know, very proactively on their own, always, you Thinking about, like, the Supercell first, and, and, you know, putting their own interests aside, and thinking about others, and, and, you know, making sacrifices for, for the team's sake, and, and for the company's sake, and there are so many leaders like that at Supercell, so I, I look up to them.

AI assessment note: “they're all at Supercell, because, of course, I get the chance to work”

Q Question that I just have to ask is like, How do you create accountability within teams when they have incomplete ownership, and how do you think about inserting that accountability?

A Well, I think it all comes down to, like, what type of people you hire. I mean, it really comes down to that, and it's ultimately the people and their everyday actions that create this culture. But over time, if you hire the right type of people who have that accountability, have that huge sense of responsibility, Over the time, it will create that type of culture. At some point, you'll get this critical mass of people who think like that, and then you just need to kind of keep that going, and you need to keep nurturing that type of culture. And, you know, I've also noticed that the more kind of you trust people, I mean, people also, like, the way they can respond is that they, they get this huge sense of responsibility. Like, most people get it sort of almost automatically if they are just, if they get this feeling that they are trusted 100%.

AI assessment note: “I think it all comes down to, like, what type of people you hire.”

Q you in terms of that kind of becoming slightly easier. Can I ask one thing that I personally really struggle with is like being disliked. I end up saying yes to far too many things because I'm afraid of being disliked in any respect. As a leader, how do you think about, kind of, getting comfortable with sometimes being disliked and not everyone approving or agreeing or liking your decision?

A I think a lot of us, like, are like you in, in that sense, and maybe it's something that comes from a couple of things. So, of course, it comes from experience. I mean, if you, like, truly believe in what you are doing, then ultimately, like, you just have to, like, follow your instincts, and there really is, like, no other way, and, and, you know, that's what I always tell to, like, say, you know, up and coming Entrepreneurs or people who, you know, maybe I'm an investor to their company these days. I always tell them that one of my biggest advices is to founders is that, you know, listen to everybody, try to get the feedback, but then ultimately, you have to be the one who decides. I mean, it's your company, and no one knows better than you what's the right thing to do for the company, and just, you know, follow, ultimately, like, follow what your gut tells you to do. And, you know, sometimes it leads to a situations where you can't please everybody, and that's fine. And again, I think it's something that, you know, comes from From those type of, uh, experiences.

AI assessment note: “you can't please everybody, and that's fine.”