The Exchanges

Q nerve, and then when, you know, we chatted before, you said a statement that did not make me nervous, it made me terrified, um, when you told me that DAOs are the future of VC. Now, I have some thoughts here, because I've learned a couple of things about DAOs from Ruchi yesterday, But, um, can you unpack DAOs or the future of VC? What did you mean by this?

A So I think that if you look at the, if you look at venture capital and investing over the last 20 plus years, even before DAOs, before Syndicate, before Web three and before crypto, The world of investing has been in a multi-decade transformation towards decentralization and community-based investing. I, I fundamentally believe that and that that trend is inevitable. So what started out in many ways with AngelList almost two decades ago and what they did in terms of democratizing the capabilities to invest via syndicates and SPVs and things like that, which has led to this proliferation of Angel investors and solo capitalists around the world, right? That has been happening for more than a decade. And what's interesting when you look at those traditional investing markets, right, outside of even Web three, what's happening? Well, there's so many angels. There's so many solo capitalists right now. What are they doing? They're starting to band together. They're forming these angel investor collectives. Why? To win deals because they need to outcompete other angels and the, you know, tens of thousands of them now. And the other thing is that the angel investing model and the solo capitalist model doesn't do a great job of supporting portfolio companies, right? So in order to compete with traditional venture firms that have a lot more resources, And areas of support and areas of li…

AI assessment note: “DAOs as a technology construct. Take that same trend. To the logical extreme”

Q nerve, and then when, you know, we chatted before, you said a statement that did not make me nervous, it made me terrified, um, when you told me that DAOs are the future of VC. Now, I have some thoughts here, because I've learned a couple of things about DAOs from Ruchi yesterday, But, um, can you unpack DAOs or the future of VC? What did you mean by this?

A So I think that if you look at the, if you look at venture capital and investing over the last 20 plus years, even before DAOs, before Syndicate, before Web three and before crypto, The world of investing has been in a multi-decade transformation towards decentralization and community-based investing. I, I fundamentally believe that and that that trend is inevitable. So what started out in many ways with AngelList almost two decades ago and what they did in terms of democratizing the capabilities to invest via syndicates and SPVs and things like that, which has led to this proliferation of Angel investors and solo capitalists around the world, right? That has been happening for more than a decade. And what's interesting when you look at those traditional investing markets, right, outside of even Web three, what's happening? Well, there's so many angels. There's so many solo capitalists right now. What are they doing? They're starting to band together. They're forming these angel investor collectives. Why? To win deals because they need to outcompete other angels and the, you know, tens of thousands of them now. And the other thing is that the angel investing model and the solo capitalist model doesn't do a great job of supporting portfolio companies, right? So in order to compete with traditional venture firms that have a lot more resources, And areas of support and areas of li…

AI assessment note: “take that same trend to the logical extreme”

Q if you are my mother, oh Jesus, I mean, that, no way. Uh, and actually, she's okay. Like, so she's probably, like, the average person. And so I think, like, do you agree with me in terms of the greatest opportunity being in the consumerization? Because, yes, you and I may get it, and you obviously a lot more than me, but fuck, this is a small segment of society.

A I think that I completely agree in that. Right now, the user base of Web Three is very small and limited, and as a result of that, the type of users that we're seeing on these networks today are primarily the people that can access it, afford it, and have the capabilities and the expertise and connections to be able to utilize these very complicated and sometimes costly, right, um, pieces of technology and infrastructure. So I think that in order for Web Three to deliver upon the promise that I was sharing earlier, where it has the potential to impact not tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands, but potentially billions of people on the planet, those billions of people on the planet are going to need better interfaces and user experiences and infrastructure to access it in a way that they can easily understand and easily use. Because to your point, like, You know, right now using these crypto wallets where you install it on your web browser and you have to secure your keys and you're really worried about that. I mean, it has a role in society and in web three, but most people on the planet are not going to be able to do that. And so the problem with that is that, you know, for now that's okay, right? Most technologies, I think, you know, they have to start somewhere. They have to start with early adopters and things like that to get traction. But to really kind of achieve th…

AI assessment note: “I think that I completely agree in that. Right now, the user base”

Q You said about the next iteration of the internet there. When we spoke before, you said that crypto is the future of the internet. Help me unpack this one. Brilliant, like tweetable quote. Loved it. But what did you mean by it? And how do you think this one through?

A Yeah. So I think if, if you look at, I mean, there, there have been a lot of people recently over the past number of months talking about Web three. I mean, when, when I got into crypto in 2014, right, it was just Bitcoin. And, and this concept of Web three wasn't even like a thing until very recently, I would say, like in the last year. The, the people who originally talked about Web Three were people like Kyle Simani of Multicoin and also Chris Dixon at A-sixteen Z, probably around like, 2017, 20 18, and that was, I mean, that was way ahead of its time, but for people that were kind of following them and also in it, um, working on, on the technologies at the ground level, we, we did started to, we did start to see this Potential for these decentralized technologies to lead to a fundamentally different internet architecture. And the, the important thing, I think, is that that architecture leads to different properties, which often leads to different business models, for example. And so when we, when I think about the internet, and it's, it's multiple iterations, right? Web one, if you want to call it that, Was a decentralized internet where the business, there, there was really no native business model to it. Um, and when you had web, the, the web, web two that came later, the business model and the value, the value capture, uh, basically came through centralized companies, yo…

AI assessment note: “what web three does is it actually enables the protocols of the internet”

Q Is it the infrastructure that isn't there yet? Or is it the lack of ability to tell a story to a mass consumer audience and the ability to educate in a way that is compelling and resonates?

A I think it's both. Yeah. They're, they're very intertwined. I mean, you know, when, when I got into Bitcoin in 2014, I was at Citigroup and what was most inspiring to me about it was that traditional banking infrastructure is, even from just a cost perspective, unable to support billions of people on the planet. It's just not economical to, uh, it's just not economical to be able to support, you know, lots of lots of people where Infrastructure doesn't exist. And so my, um, my, my, my passion for Bitcoin initially actually came from that, which was, well, we could utilize some of these technologies like Bitcoin to potentially serve the two billion people that don't have access to basic financial services. And, you know, ever since then, and consistently over the years, there have been a lot of great teams, some of which are still around today. Like, for example, Cello is, is one that I, I have high hopes for, but there have been, you know, hundreds of startups that unfortunately, uh, were going after really important missions, and were actually telling very good narratives about how they were going to, for example, bank the unbanked using Bitcoin or blockchain networks or crypto, and they're no longer around. They, they ran out of money. They failed because In my opinion, a lot of that was a timing thing, and a lot of the timing element of that, even though they were creating g…

AI assessment note: “I think it's both. Yeah. They're, they're very intertwined.”

Q like, everyone who's like, ah, I'm a web three expert, and all the VCs that are doing web three dinners, and web three, web three, web, I'm like, oh, fuck off. I'm sorry. Like, you've been living it for years. I get you. Fantastic. Love it. But everyone who's like, I've always been a fan since last Wednesday, um, you know, how do you feel about that, being an OG?

A I mean, I, I really struggle with it, to be honest. Um, I don't actively engage in a lot of those things. I think that my approach to it is that the people that Really get it and are really here for the right reasons. They will be here, uh, years from, from now. Right. And, and we'll, we'll eventually find each other. So, so here's the thing. Like I've known a lot of people who were like that, as you, as you mentioned, I mean, you know, they're like, I I'm going all these dinners and stuff like that. And honestly, some of them turned out to be the most amazing entrepreneurs and investors in the world. So, so you really can't judge people. I think Uh, too quickly. But I think time ends up, uh, revealing, um, who those people are, right? And, and so, you know, I've been in this space for eight years. Uh, when, when I first got into it, I used to joke that it was, like, the easiest way to get fired at a bank. So what, it was really not popular. Um, a lot of people told me, like, you should stop doing that. You're gonna, you know, ruin your career and stuff like that. Um, but I think that, like, you know, those people come and go. Like, I've seen probably at least 10 to 15 of these cycles where, you know, it's been really hot, and then it went out of favor, and all of those people left, but out of the 90, 95% of people that came and went within a matter of months, there were five t…

AI assessment note: “I mean, I, I really struggle with it, to be honest.”

Q you know, you've got a fascinating perspective. You've been a VC in traditional venture markets. Now, obviously, with Syndicate, you see an incredible new side to the investing world. When you look at crypto and web through investing as a landscape today, how do you analyze it? Who wins and who loses? I thought this was a fascinating one when I asked Avachal. Like, how would you answer that one?

A I think what Aviciel said that I definitely agree with is that when you have a technology like Web three that is so different and so new in terms of the properties and capabilities and the interactions that it enables, you need to build capabilities that are native to that technology. Um, and so I think that. Like overall, VC funds that don't build those capabilities, whether they are dedicated crypto funds or not, are going to not be able to maintain an edge and keep up with the pace of innovation and the, I guess, innovations that are coming out of web three. In particular, let's look at it from the founder perspective, right? And I, I've sat on, I'm now on both sides. When you're building a crypto startup or a web three startup, you need as much help as you can be successful. And when you're thinking about taking capital from various funds or VCs or investors, right, you think about what capabilities they have and how they can support you. Now, some of those levels of support are very traditional, like distribution and marketing. Some of them are in the areas of hiring and just general company building. But there are new capabilities that are needed in terms of partnership to make a web three company successful. So, for example, some of those things relate to can this investor and can this VC firm actually help co-operate this network if and when it becomes decentralized. Th…

AI assessment note: “VC funds that don't build those capabilities... are going to not be able to maintain an edge”

Q Can you, if you are a follower fund, I'm thinking strategically here, if you are the friend, the smaller check alongside the big lead, can I be Avichal's friend and put in much smaller ticket, provide the benefits that I do without the required whole scale infrastructure change, which I agree with?

A Absolutely. And look, uh, I think copy trading of each and electric capital is probably one of the best strategies that anyone can have. So, you know, there's that. Um, but I, I, I do think that, yes, like, it, it doesn't mean that everyone needs to be, you know, going all into web three. I, I don't think that that's necessary, right? Um, as long as you are able to partner with the right people, collaborate with the right people, And also bring something that is valuable to those, uh, people or those partners, or even the startups directly, right? I mean, it doesn't mean that like, you know, capabilities and, um, uh, skill sets or expertise or networks in the traditional world won't still be useful. I mean, I think if, if, if the space is right, if we're right, that web three is just the next iteration of the internet, right? It's not going to be in a matter of five to 10 years that Web Three is completely separate from Web Two. It's just that it's the next iteration of the Internet, and with the next iteration of the Internet, you're going to need both a combination of what people think of today as Web Three native capabilities and, you know, skill sets, as well as Quote, unquote, traditional web two capabilities and skill sets. Hiring is always going to be a thing. Distribution and marketing is always going to be a thing. And so those things are not going to go away, but I do…

AI assessment note: “Absolutely. And look, uh, I think copy trading of each and electric capital”

Q former governor of the Bank of England on the show, and he mentioned that when you have technology shift and platform shift in the way that we're seeing with web three, and you look back historically in the past, all technological innovation to this extent and level has led to greater income inequality, not income equality. Do you think there's a chance that could also lead to greater income inequality?

A I think it will lead to both, to be honest, if I'm, if I'm putting on my pessimistic, pragmatic cap, which is, as I mentioned, technologies don't give a shit about people, like, just like social media, right? Social media didn't care if we used it to, um, create, you know, more activism to advance important social causes within a matter of decades as opposed to generations. It also didn't care if it, you know, helped proliferate misinformation and Um, created a lack of trust among our society and people and each other, right? So in the same way, like, you know, taking social media as an example, I think web three has that same, uh, potential, and you're, and you, we've been seeing that, right, for the last decade since it's been around, which is that web three, like any technology, has the ability to both Well, in particular, Web three has an amazing potential to both decentralize, uh, ownership and, and wealth and value. It also has an amazing potential to centralize wealth, um, and, and ownership and control in, in really powerful ways. And so I think the important question is how are human beings, how are founders, How are communities around these networks and technologies? How are they applying them and how are they building them and how are they designing them? And so it's, it's really up to us. It's really up to the builders of these technologies. It's up to the investors…

AI assessment note: “I think it will lead to both, to be honest”

Q if you are my mother, oh Jesus, I mean, that, no way. Uh, and actually, she's okay. Like, so she's probably, like, the average person. And so I think, like, do you agree with me in terms of the greatest opportunity being in the consumerization? Because, yes, you and I may get it, and you obviously a lot more than me, but fuck, this is a small segment of society.

A I think that I completely agree in that. Right now, the user base of Web Three is very small and limited, and as a result of that, the type of users that we're seeing on these networks today are primarily the people that can access it, afford it, and have the capabilities and the expertise and connections to be able to utilize these very complicated and sometimes costly, right, um, pieces of technology and infrastructure. So I think that in order for Web Three to deliver upon the promise that I was sharing earlier, where it has the potential to impact not tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands, but potentially billions of people on the planet, those billions of people on the planet are going to need better interfaces and user experiences and infrastructure to access it in a way that they can easily understand and easily use. Because to your point, like, You know, right now using these crypto wallets where you install it on your web browser and you have to secure your keys and you're really worried about that. I mean, it has a role in society and in web three, but most people on the planet are not going to be able to do that. And so the problem with that is that, you know, for now that's okay, right? Most technologies, I think, you know, they have to start somewhere. They have to start with early adopters and things like that to get traction. But to really kind of achieve th…

AI assessment note: “I think that I completely agree in that.”

Q In terms of, like, how do you think about the role and importance of distribution and storytelling for Web Three? And, and how good we are today? Like, I think we've fundamentally lost the art of telling a story. 90%.

A I think the storytelling is one of those things that are undervalued today in web three and has amazing potential both in web three and beyond to inspire people or even re-inspire people as to why we're even doing this in the first place. So, you know, a lot of, um, the kind of narratives and stories out there are really around, for example, achieving greater leverage with trading using Um, these technologies and things like that, making more money, etc. And don't get me wrong, like, that is a thing. There's a huge market for that. There's a lot of money to be made there. Um, I think what I would love to see, though, are more messages and narratives that start to bridge to people that maybe are skeptical about Web Three, or maybe don't think that Web Three is for them, right? I, I, for example, have been in, in this space For a very long time and have been quite disenchanted and bothered by the fact that, um, a lot of, uh, women, for example, and a lot of people of color have not entered into the space. Now, luckily that's starting to change, but that, that has been a problem since the very beginning.

AI assessment note: “I think the storytelling is one of those things that are undervalued today in web three”

Q former governor of the Bank of England on the show, and he mentioned that when you have technology shift and platform shift in the way that we're seeing with web three, and you look back historically in the past, all technological innovation to this extent and level has led to greater income inequality, not income equality. Do you think there's a chance that could also lead to greater income inequality?

A I think it will lead to both, to be honest, if I'm, if I'm putting on my pessimistic, pragmatic cap, which is, as I mentioned, technologies don't give a shit about people, like, just like social media, right? Social media didn't care if we used it to, um, create, you know, more activism to advance important social causes within a matter of decades as opposed to generations. It also didn't care if it, you know, helped proliferate misinformation and Um, created a lack of trust among our society and people and each other, right? So in the same way, like, you know, taking social media as an example, I think web three has that same, uh, potential, and you're, and you, we've been seeing that, right, for the last decade since it's been around, which is that web three, like any technology, has the ability to both Well, in particular, Web three has an amazing potential to both decentralize, uh, ownership and, and wealth and value. It also has an amazing potential to centralize wealth, um, and, and ownership and control in, in really powerful ways. And so I think the important question is how are human beings, how are founders, How are communities around these networks and technologies? How are they applying them and how are they building them and how are they designing them? And so it's, it's really up to us. It's really up to the builders of these technologies. It's up to the investors…

AI assessment note: “I think it will lead to both, to be honest”

Q you know, you've got a fascinating perspective. You've been a VC in traditional venture markets. Now, obviously, with Syndicate, you see an incredible new side to the investing world. When you look at crypto and web through investing as a landscape today, how do you analyze it? Who wins and who loses? I thought this was a fascinating one when I asked Avachal. Like, how would you answer that one?

A I think what Aviciel said that I definitely agree with is that when you have a technology like Web three that is so different and so new in terms of the properties and capabilities and the interactions that it enables, you need to build capabilities that are native to that technology. Um, and so I think that. Like overall, VC funds that don't build those capabilities, whether they are dedicated crypto funds or not, are going to not be able to maintain an edge and keep up with the pace of innovation and the, I guess, innovations that are coming out of web three. In particular, let's look at it from the founder perspective, right? And I, I've sat on, I'm now on both sides. When you're building a crypto startup or a web three startup, you need as much help as you can be successful. And when you're thinking about taking capital from various funds or VCs or investors, right, you think about what capabilities they have and how they can support you. Now, some of those levels of support are very traditional, like distribution and marketing. Some of them are in the areas of hiring and just general company building. But there are new capabilities that are needed in terms of partnership to make a web three company successful. So, for example, some of those things relate to can this investor and can this VC firm actually help co-operate this network if and when it becomes decentralized. Th…

AI assessment note: “VC funds that don't build those capabilities... are going to not be able to maintain an edge”

Q So what's the favorite book and why? And I do want a second one. For just, like, me wanting to learn about WebTree, what should I read as a good primer? I'm, honestly, I'm really quite basic. So where should I start?

A That's okay. I actually think that just to jump into that one, like having a beginner's mindset is what web three needs and has needed for some time, because what we need, the industry needs are people who can look at this from a first principles perspective and grok from it. Like what is actually meaningful here and what of it is not meaningful and let's focus on the meaningful part. So I am really excited that you're interested in learning and really excited actually that A lot more people are interested in learning about Web three, more so than they ever have been. So as far as, like, my favorite book, I actually think this is kind of related. Um, this has been my favorite book for 20 years, which is The Innovator's Dilemma by Clayton Christensen, written in the nineties. And, you know, this, this kind of relates to some of my past experience, uh, before Web three and FinTech and VC, which was, I was consistently, I was interested in why Well-funded companies that have historically been very, very successful and gotten to a very large scale and have infinite resources consistently fail. I was fascinated by that question. And my main takeaway from that book and all of my work over the last two decades is that it's because incumbents Fail to realize that a technological innovation often comes with a business model innovation behind it, and they get, they dismiss the technologi…

AI assessment note: “this has been my favorite book for 20 years, which is The Innovator's Dilemma”

Q You said about the next iteration of the internet there. When we spoke before, you said that crypto is the future of the internet. Help me unpack this one. Brilliant, like tweetable quote. Loved it. But what did you mean by it? And how do you think this one through?

A Yeah. So I think if, if you look at, I mean, there, there have been a lot of people recently over the past number of months talking about Web three. I mean, when, when I got into crypto in 2014, right, it was just Bitcoin. And, and this concept of Web three wasn't even like a thing until very recently, I would say, like in the last year. The, the people who originally talked about Web Three were people like Kyle Simani of Multicoin and also Chris Dixon at A-sixteen Z, probably around like, 2017, 20 18, and that was, I mean, that was way ahead of its time, but for people that were kind of following them and also in it, um, working on, on the technologies at the ground level, we, we did started to, we did start to see this Potential for these decentralized technologies to lead to a fundamentally different internet architecture. And the, the important thing, I think, is that that architecture leads to different properties, which often leads to different business models, for example. And so when we, when I think about the internet, and it's, it's multiple iterations, right? Web one, if you want to call it that, Was a decentralized internet where the business, there, there was really no native business model to it. Um, and when you had web, the, the web, web two that came later, the business model and the value, the value capture, uh, basically came through centralized companies, yo…

AI assessment note: “enables the protocols of the internet, the networks of the internet to start to create and capture value”

Q like, everyone who's like, ah, I'm a web three expert, and all the VCs that are doing web three dinners, and web three, web three, web, I'm like, oh, fuck off. I'm sorry. Like, you've been living it for years. I get you. Fantastic. Love it. But everyone who's like, I've always been a fan since last Wednesday, um, you know, how do you feel about that, being an OG?

A I mean, I, I really struggle with it, to be honest. Um, I don't actively engage in a lot of those things. I think that my approach to it is that the people that Really get it and are really here for the right reasons. They will be here, uh, years from, from now. Right. And, and we'll, we'll eventually find each other. So, so here's the thing. Like I've known a lot of people who were like that, as you, as you mentioned, I mean, you know, they're like, I I'm going all these dinners and stuff like that. And honestly, some of them turned out to be the most amazing entrepreneurs and investors in the world. So, so you really can't judge people. I think Uh, too quickly. But I think time ends up, uh, revealing, um, who those people are, right? And, and so, you know, I've been in this space for eight years. Uh, when, when I first got into it, I used to joke that it was, like, the easiest way to get fired at a bank. So what, it was really not popular. Um, a lot of people told me, like, you should stop doing that. You're gonna, you know, ruin your career and stuff like that. Um, but I think that, like, you know, those people come and go. Like, I've seen probably at least 10 to 15 of these cycles where, you know, it's been really hot, and then it went out of favor, and all of those people left, but out of the 90, 95% of people that came and went within a matter of months, there were five t…

AI assessment note: “I really struggle with it, to be honest. Um, I don't actively engage”

Q How long until a Dow invests a billion dollars? That's what Avishal just messaged me.

A I think that there actually is, uh, one called BitDAO that has over a billion dollars in assets under management. So, so probably that one could be the first to deploy a billion dollars of capital. Um, I mean, what, I mean, I, I really mean that actually, uh, will we see that at scale? Um, so will we see not one BitDAO, but Dozens or thousands or tens of thousands in the future? Probably, actually. Um, what will those be, though? Uh, I think it'll be a mix. I think some VC funds will structure themselves as DAOs. Um, and we're working with, you know, some of those, uh, to, to sort of progress towards that long-term vision. And so, um, will that, is that a DAO or not? Or is that just a fund? I mean, who cares? Um, but, like, the, the point is that People will use this technology, ie DAOs, whether a traditional organization or a completely non-traditional one where it's like, more like a subreddit on the internet to invest more and more capital. And, and I think that, you know, uh, at scale that might take five to 10 years to be completely honest. I mean, billion dollars is a lot of money, but, um, that activity is already happening today on platforms or networks like Syndicate just You know, at smaller levels. And, uh, I think if you, if you read the tea leaves, right, and you sort of project out, like, what's going to happen here, it's pretty easy to see that these, these pathw…

AI assessment note: “at scale that might take five to 10 years to be completely honest.”

Q Can you, if you are a follower fund, I'm thinking strategically here, if you are the friend, the smaller check alongside the big lead, can I be Avichal's friend and put in much smaller ticket, provide the benefits that I do without the required whole scale infrastructure change, which I agree with?

A Absolutely. And look, uh, I think copy trading of each and electric capital is probably one of the best strategies that anyone can have. So, you know, there's that. Um, but I, I, I do think that, yes, like, it, it doesn't mean that everyone needs to be, you know, going all into web three. I, I don't think that that's necessary, right? Um, as long as you are able to partner with the right people, collaborate with the right people, And also bring something that is valuable to those, uh, people or those partners, or even the startups directly, right? I mean, it doesn't mean that like, you know, capabilities and, um, uh, skill sets or expertise or networks in the traditional world won't still be useful. I mean, I think if, if, if the space is right, if we're right, that web three is just the next iteration of the internet, right? It's not going to be in a matter of five to 10 years that Web Three is completely separate from Web Two. It's just that it's the next iteration of the Internet, and with the next iteration of the Internet, you're going to need both a combination of what people think of today as Web Three native capabilities and, you know, skill sets, as well as Quote, unquote, traditional web two capabilities and skill sets. Hiring is always going to be a thing. Distribution and marketing is always going to be a thing. And so those things are not going to go away, but I do…

AI assessment note: “as long as you are able to partner with the right people, collaborate”

Q Is it the infrastructure that isn't there yet? Or is it the lack of ability to tell a story to a mass consumer audience and the ability to educate in a way that is compelling and resonates?

A I think it's both. Yeah. They're, they're very intertwined. I mean, you know, when, when I got into Bitcoin in 2014, I was at Citigroup and what was most inspiring to me about it was that traditional banking infrastructure is, even from just a cost perspective, unable to support billions of people on the planet. It's just not economical to, uh, it's just not economical to be able to support, you know, lots of lots of people where Infrastructure doesn't exist. And so my, um, my, my, my passion for Bitcoin initially actually came from that, which was, well, we could utilize some of these technologies like Bitcoin to potentially serve the two billion people that don't have access to basic financial services. And, you know, ever since then, and consistently over the years, there have been a lot of great teams, some of which are still around today. Like, for example, Cello is, is one that I, I have high hopes for, but there have been, you know, hundreds of startups that unfortunately, uh, were going after really important missions, and were actually telling very good narratives about how they were going to, for example, bank the unbanked using Bitcoin or blockchain networks or crypto, and they're no longer around. They, they ran out of money. They failed because In my opinion, a lot of that was a timing thing, and a lot of the timing element of that, even though they were creating g…

AI assessment note: “I think it's both. Yeah. They're, they're very intertwined.”

Q In terms of, like, how do you think about the role and importance of distribution and storytelling for Web Three? And, and how good we are today? Like, I think we've fundamentally lost the art of telling a story. 90%.

A I think the storytelling is one of those things that are undervalued today in web three and has amazing potential both in web three and beyond to inspire people or even re-inspire people as to why we're even doing this in the first place. So, you know, a lot of, um, the kind of narratives and stories out there are really around, for example, achieving greater leverage with trading using Um, these technologies and things like that, making more money, etc. And don't get me wrong, like, that is a thing. There's a huge market for that. There's a lot of money to be made there. Um, I think what I would love to see, though, are more messages and narratives that start to bridge to people that maybe are skeptical about Web Three, or maybe don't think that Web Three is for them, right? I, I, for example, have been in, in this space For a very long time and have been quite disenchanted and bothered by the fact that, um, a lot of, uh, women, for example, and a lot of people of color have not entered into the space. Now, luckily that's starting to change, but that, that has been a problem since the very beginning.

AI assessment note: “I think the storytelling is one of those things that are undervalued today in web three”

Q What is the single biggest threat, do you think, of Web Three being able to achieve the positive outcomes that you believe it can? What's the biggest threat to that?

A Well, I think I'm fairly optimistic that even if there are near term threats, like, for example, regulation or extreme profit seeking or centralization of control and things like that, those are some of the things that come to mind. I, I believe that in time, those projects or those networks or those systems will be less resilient than the ones that are actually designed for society that solve a really important need or problem in our world. And so in time, I think that, um, in the grand scheme of things, I'm very optimistic that Those things will ultimately, the positive things will actually win out because they're actually solving real problems. I think in the near and medium term, though, you know, we, the, the space has been consistently plagued with You know, profit seeking short term mind, you know, short term, uh, minded individuals or, or, or communities. And, um, you know, that has resulted in a lot of things like people getting exploited, um, you know, funds being kind of, you know, hacked and stuff like that. And as a result of that, that sets the industry back a number of years. Like, for example, when I first entered in 2014, that was just after Mt. Docs. And, you know, Mt. Gox, right, was trying to do something, but it just, you know, didn't, it kind of messed up in terms of the security model. But Mt. Gox set the Bitcoin industry and the crypto industry back by, …

AI assessment note: “regulation or extreme profit seeking or centralization of control and things like that”

Q What is the single biggest threat, do you think, of Web Three being able to achieve the positive outcomes that you believe it can? What's the biggest threat to that?

A Well, I think I'm fairly optimistic that even if there are near term threats, like, for example, regulation or extreme profit seeking or centralization of control and things like that, those are some of the things that come to mind. I, I believe that in time, those projects or those networks or those systems will be less resilient than the ones that are actually designed for society that solve a really important need or problem in our world. And so in time, I think that, um, in the grand scheme of things, I'm very optimistic that Those things will ultimately, the positive things will actually win out because they're actually solving real problems. I think in the near and medium term, though, you know, we, the, the space has been consistently plagued with You know, profit seeking short term mind, you know, short term, uh, minded individuals or, or, or communities. And, um, you know, that has resulted in a lot of things like people getting exploited, um, you know, funds being kind of, you know, hacked and stuff like that. And as a result of that, that sets the industry back a number of years. Like, for example, when I first entered in 2014, that was just after Mt. Docs. And, you know, Mt. Gox, right, was trying to do something, but it just, you know, didn't, it kind of messed up in terms of the security model. But Mt. Gox set the Bitcoin industry and the crypto industry back by, …

AI assessment note: “the space has been consistently plagued with You know, profit seeking short term”

Q Question for you, penultimate one. What's been the fucking hardest thing about building Syndicate?

A Well, I think that, look, we, we have a lot of support, and I, I think one of the things that I learned from being an investor in, in Web Three over the, the last 10 years is that you can't do this alone. Um, it's just too, it's too difficult, and so that's why we've been, um, from day one, trying to get as much help as we can from our investors, from our users, and our partners. And so if you've been following kind of how we've been building Syndicate, our seed round was basically this pretty big party round of like nine funds and 18 angels. We then did a hundred person community raise with a hundred operators and founders in Web three and some in Web two. Our series A, which was led by, you know, Andreessen Horowitz, it also had like a 150 people and other funds involved in it. Um, it was like this Monster party around that, uh, honestly, like, has made our cap table a nightmare, a nightmare. And then more recently, you know, just actually on Tuesday, we announced that 50 companies and DAOs even, and partners and customers invested in us, like Uniswap and OpenSea and Ledger and Carta and even, um, and Circle and things like that. And the reason for that is actually because we know That to do what we're trying to do is really difficult, right? I mean, we, we are going to build the things that we need to build and, and do that well, but in order to achieve the impact, you know,…

AI assessment note: “the hardest part to answer your question Is getting the help that you need”

Q and I was like, that is genius. You are so brilliant. You just came up with a venture fund structure, 40 years after Arthur Rock did. I don't get, like, I'm being deliberately, I don't, I don't get it. That is the fund, like, I have ATLPs, and they delegate decision-making to me. That is, that's a DAO. They're limited partners. They help me in ways. How is this different?

A I think it's totally fair. Look, um, I am ruthlessly pragmatic about these, these technologies and what they mean for the world and the timing of them, right? I think that a lot of people get very enamored by These terminologies, right? And, and this has been happening for, you know, ever since the beginning of crypto with Bitcoin, where they have, you know, many ways like this, this sort of utopian vision for what blockchains could mean or crypto could mean or NFTs or DAOs could mean. But the reality is that change happens, you know, sequentially. It, it, it happens incrementally in society. And I think As it relates specifically to DAOs, um, I, we do believe that DAOs are going to lead to fundamentally new organizations that don't easily or don't exist in today's world. A good example of this is like, you know, some of these DAOs that are popping up right now in web three and on the internet, they look more like subreddits than they do like existing organizations or funds and with entities and legal structures behind them. And I think that that Should not be underestimated because in many ways this could lead to DAOs as, as a, as a, I guess construct could lead to fundamentally new platforms, new networks, new experiences that don't exist in today's internet or today's world. In the same way that like social media is just a new thing that didn't exist 20 years before that, ri…

AI assessment note: “they look more like subreddits than they do like existing organizations or funds”

Q and I was like, that is genius. You are so brilliant. You just came up with a venture fund structure, 40 years after Arthur Rock did. I don't get, like, I'm being deliberately, I don't, I don't get it. That is the fund, like, I have ATLPs, and they delegate decision-making to me. That is, that's a DAO. They're limited partners. They help me in ways. How is this different?

A I think it's totally fair. Look, um, I am ruthlessly pragmatic about these, these technologies and what they mean for the world and the timing of them, right? I think that a lot of people get very enamored by These terminologies, right? And, and this has been happening for, you know, ever since the beginning of crypto with Bitcoin, where they have, you know, many ways like this, this sort of utopian vision for what blockchains could mean or crypto could mean or NFTs or DAOs could mean. But the reality is that change happens, you know, sequentially. It, it, it happens incrementally in society. And I think As it relates specifically to DAOs, um, I, we do believe that DAOs are going to lead to fundamentally new organizations that don't easily or don't exist in today's world. A good example of this is like, you know, some of these DAOs that are popping up right now in web three and on the internet, they look more like subreddits than they do like existing organizations or funds and with entities and legal structures behind them. And I think that that Should not be underestimated because in many ways this could lead to DAOs as, as a, as a, I guess construct could lead to fundamentally new platforms, new networks, new experiences that don't exist in today's internet or today's world. In the same way that like social media is just a new thing that didn't exist 20 years before that, ri…

AI assessment note: “they look more like subreddits than they do like existing organizations or funds”

Q So again, I told you I'm specialized in dumb questions, especially when it comes to this topic. Okay. How do you determine who's allowed into your DAO? How do you determine how many people to have in the DAO? I, sorry, I didn't understand, help me.

A Well, I think this is one of the core issues of where DAOs are currently as a technology. Um, you know, as I mentioned, like, I got into crypto in 2014, and so a lot of these things take years to mature and develop. For example, um, Ethereum in 2015, a lot of people thought that that was ridiculous, right? And it took a good at least three years for People to understand the power of Ethereum and these blockchains. NFTs, many people don't realize this, but NFTs actually first came out around 2017, and it wasn't really until last year in 2021, almost four to five years after NFTs were first introduced, that people are now understanding that NFTs have a role in technology and in business and society. So DAOs Actually started in 2016 with the original DAO, which had a pretty catastrophic. Vulnerability that was exploited, and in the years after that exploit, from 2016 all the way until even 2021, DAOs were not really a thing, and now obviously a lot of people have been exploring and experimenting with them, and we're starting to test some of these, I guess, pragmatic implementations of them, which are starting to get some traction, but we're still very early. I mean, we're probably only Really, one, at best, one and a half years into experimenting with all of the different forms and form factors that DAOs can take. And so some of these questions around, like, how many people should…

AI assessment note: “these things are being experimented and tested right now”

Q So again, I told you I'm specialized in dumb questions, especially when it comes to this topic. Okay. How do you determine who's allowed into your DAO? How do you determine how many people to have in the DAO? I, sorry, I didn't understand, help me.

A Well, I think this is one of the core issues of where DAOs are currently as a technology. Um, you know, as I mentioned, like, I got into crypto in 2014, and so a lot of these things take years to mature and develop. For example, um, Ethereum in 2015, a lot of people thought that that was ridiculous, right? And it took a good at least three years for People to understand the power of Ethereum and these blockchains. NFTs, many people don't realize this, but NFTs actually first came out around 2017, and it wasn't really until last year in 2021, almost four to five years after NFTs were first introduced, that people are now understanding that NFTs have a role in technology and in business and society. So DAOs Actually started in 2016 with the original DAO, which had a pretty catastrophic. Vulnerability that was exploited, and in the years after that exploit, from 2016 all the way until even 2021, DAOs were not really a thing, and now obviously a lot of people have been exploring and experimenting with them, and we're starting to test some of these, I guess, pragmatic implementations of them, which are starting to get some traction, but we're still very early. I mean, we're probably only Really, one, at best, one and a half years into experimenting with all of the different forms and form factors that DAOs can take. And so some of these questions around, like, how many people should…

AI assessment note: “questions around, like, how many people should be a part of DAOs... are being experimented”