The Exchanges

Q I love a good hustles But on the IPO front itself, I am interested, especially given kind of current markets, given expected rate hikes, how do you expect both IPO and M&A markets to fare in 2022?

A Well, I think last year was a record year in terms of volume. I do think that obviously, you know, if you look back on it, some of the performance is mixed, and so I think that's kind of put a little bit of a pause on the sort of new issue market. I think there will still obviously be new listings and direct listings and probably not as many SPACs. That's a different topic. I do think you'll still have some activity, but not like last year. The M&A market has kind of surprised me a little bit. I thought you would see more of it because absent the last three months, a lot of the public company valuations had also grown significantly, thus empowering potential buyers with a currency. I expect maybe a little bit more M&A this year than last year, just because last year there wasn't that much of it. I think that probably the bigger challenge is for a lot of the biggest mega cap tech companies, fear of regulation and regulatory authority intervention is probably causing a lot of them to say, this is probably not worth our time, right? So it's kind of a funny world where Microsoft is now the one that's allowed to buy things and not considered the antitrust sort of monopolist type of a business. But I honestly think that if you're Facebook or Google, Amazon, probably Apple to a degree as well, the bar is really high to try and even get something done because you know that the FTC and …

AI assessment note: “I expect maybe a little bit more M&A this year than last year”

Q sure they're differentiated across stage, and then you'll help each other. And I just do that, honestly. So I totally agree with you. You mentioned it earlier, but it's one of my favorites, and man, I have some crackers here. And I'm young, so like, you should have some too, I hope. What are some of your big misses, and how did it shape how you think about investing today?

A So it actually goes back to a lot of the same points we were talking about. Biggest regret in my career was not investing in Datadog a lot earlier than when we ultimately did. We loved The company, it was probably nine or eleven million dollars in revenue at the time. This is probably the 2014 time frame, and they raised a series B. Stupid, stupid, stupid price sensitivity. I mean, ultimately, price delta was about five percent on something that went from, you know, two hundred million to 50 or sixty billion. Insanely stupid on my part. But I would say that the thing that we really like and I'd say he's continued to impress is Olivier, the CEO and co-founder, and we can Spent time with his team as well. With Alexei, his other co-founder, Ahmed, his chief product officer. You know, they started with a very beautiful and simple product, and now it's still serving a whole bunch of customers. Now they've got four key products, and they're expanding them. But that was sort of that, to your point, like underestimated the TAM, because they were really, you know, serving small customers at the time. Felt like, oh, you know, it's price sensitive. That feels really high. It was a 20 X multiple. That was really high at the time. Completely, completely the wrong mistake. Wrong move.

AI assessment note: “Biggest regret in my career was not investing in Datadog a lot earlier”

Q As I said, I've been excited for this one for a while, but I want to start with a little bit of context before we dive in. How did you make your way into the world of venture, and how did you come to be a GP with IVP?

A So how I got into venture, I am dating myself a fair bit, but I had the good fortune, random chance of Going to Stanford for college in the heyday of the internet bubble and came from a background where I didn't have a lot of access to technology or computing devices growing up, you know, my first laptop at, I guess I was 16. And so getting from that world to the center of Silicon Valley, right as all that craziness was going on, was really eyeopening. And it was really exciting. And it got me to sort of think about three things in terms of the future for myself and I think the world. And I think in particular, I thought the U S would Have opportunities to excel in information technology, biotechnology, and clean technology. I did not have the capabilities or the interest in biotechnology or clean technology, so that left information technology. And I remember very vividly, the first exposure I had to venture capital was a packed auditorium on the engineering side of campus, and John Doerr came on campus to talk about Amazon, and it had gone public a few years earlier. He was incredibly passionate. You know, I think one side of his shirt was untucked, and his shoelaces on his sneakers were untied. You know, the energy and the belief Amazon was going to change the world was totally infectious. It turns out he was right. I don't think that the timeframe was quite the same. And I …

AI assessment note: “So how I got into venture, I am dating myself a fair bit”

Q I love a good hustles But on the IPO front itself, I am interested, especially given kind of current markets, given expected rate hikes, how do you expect both IPO and M&A markets to fare in 2022?

A Well, I think last year was a record year in terms of volume. I do think that obviously, you know, if you look back on it, some of the performance is mixed, and so I think that's kind of put a little bit of a pause on the sort of new issue market. I think there will still obviously be new listings and direct listings and probably not as many SPACs. That's a different topic. I do think you'll still have some activity, but not like last year. The M&A market has kind of surprised me a little bit. I thought you would see more of it because absent the last three months, a lot of the public company valuations had also grown significantly, thus empowering potential buyers with a currency. I expect maybe a little bit more M&A this year than last year, just because last year there wasn't that much of it. I think that probably the bigger challenge is for a lot of the biggest mega cap tech companies, fear of regulation and regulatory authority intervention is probably causing a lot of them to say, this is probably not worth our time, right? So it's kind of a funny world where Microsoft is now the one that's allowed to buy things and not considered the antitrust sort of monopolist type of a business. But I honestly think that if you're Facebook or Google, Amazon, probably Apple to a degree as well, the bar is really high to try and even get something done because you know that the FTC and …

AI assessment note: “I expect maybe a little bit more M&A this year than last year”

Q I find it amazing that all these early stage investors are like, oh, it's fine, it's fine, we're going to be great, and I think multiplier effect is real, and the trickle down will happen. Given what we're seeing here, and what I think will be a trickle down, how do you expect this to hit pricing on three different sectors, seed and early, series A and B, and growth?

A I think growth will be hit the hardest, because there, the universe of alternatives, particularly for some of the largest investors, is Private company A at multiple X or public company B at multiple Y. And the difference is that multiple Y just went down by 30, 40%. So I think that's a very obvious choice for a potential investor to look at. And that's why I think you're seeing some of the retrenchment in sort of the latest rounds. And I think the other part of that is, you know, some of these companies in these practical rounds, like I said, while they were able to list last year, the price performances has been down. So I think some of the investor types who are very used to being able to buy and sell stock on a daily basis I've seen it thinking, why am I paying a higher multiple for something that's further away from liquidity? And even when it does get public, I could be locked up for six months and have that capital not be able to be used for a different investment opportunity. So I think you're already seeing pressure there. I think that does eventually move down because, you know, the series A and B investor wants to know that at some point there'll be a higher valuation in a later stage private or public round. And so some of those assumptions may get me sort of get ratcheted downward a little bit. And then I think that will, of course, then happen at the seed. But the…

AI assessment note: “I think growth will be hit the hardest, because there, the universe of alternatives”

Q No, no, I spoke to your wife. Yeah, she's coming on next, actually. That's next week. Oh boy. Eric, you're part two. No, my question to you was, you know, it is such a important and pivotal change to one's life. How did having children impact your, your operating, your investing mindset, do you think?

A Okay, it definitely helped me focus on the things that are important because, you know, you now have this part of your life that you want to spend a lot more time on and have a responsibility to spend more time on. It's sort of as a nice forcing function to winnow away things that are less important, which I think is great. I think the other thing actually that really taught me about the investing is you can try and control all the things you can control, but there are going to be a lot of things that are outside of your control and you just have to deal with it. And I think you learn that pretty early on when you have, for example, a newborn, because you can do everything you think you're supposed to be doing, whether it's feeding or diaper changing or burping, and your baby is still going to cry. And, you know, I think if you're used to having a lot of control to now have No control over this tiny little human being at any time of day is really humbling, but I think all you can do is like try and do the best that you can with that, and eventually you realize that's also true, you know, in your professional life. So many things you can control. I can't control whether the stock market goes up or down, but I can control trying to meet with the best companies and being the best partner I can be to the companies we've already invested in.

AI assessment note: “it definitely helped me focus on the things that are important”

Q As I said, I've been excited for this one for a while, but I want to start with a little bit of context before we dive in. How did you make your way into the world of venture, and how did you come to be a GP with IVP?

A So how I got into venture, I am dating myself a fair bit, but I had the good fortune, random chance of Going to Stanford for college in the heyday of the internet bubble and came from a background where I didn't have a lot of access to technology or computing devices growing up, you know, my first laptop at, I guess I was 16. And so getting from that world to the center of Silicon Valley, right as all that craziness was going on, was really eyeopening. And it was really exciting. And it got me to sort of think about three things in terms of the future for myself and I think the world. And I think in particular, I thought the U S would Have opportunities to excel in information technology, biotechnology, and clean technology. I did not have the capabilities or the interest in biotechnology or clean technology, so that left information technology. And I remember very vividly, the first exposure I had to venture capital was a packed auditorium on the engineering side of campus, and John Doerr came on campus to talk about Amazon, and it had gone public a few years earlier. He was incredibly passionate. You know, I think one side of his shirt was untucked, and his shoelaces on his sneakers were untied. You know, the energy and the belief Amazon was going to change the world was totally infectious. It turns out he was right. I don't think that the timeframe was quite the same. And I …

AI assessment note: “So how I got into venture, I am dating myself a fair bit”

Q I love Dina, but now it's time for our final one with Eric, your partner at IVP. If suddenly you have kids, and you have a family, and then you have the weekend with your family and your kids, which is wonderful, but if my USP is my work ethic, what do you think?

A Well, it'll go back to priorities, and so, you know, you tend to find, this is now talking more, oh, maybe life than venture, but you'd probably find, like, when you have kids, by sort of nature of 24 hours a day, and you want to get sleep and all that, you probably don't see as many of your friends as you used to. Kind of a bummer, but you sort of, there's, like I said, it's sort of forcing function and there's a new priority in your life and that's your kids. I think it's a beautiful thing. And I'm with you. Like grinding is all I have too. And it goes back to that. Like I can't control whether people I'm competing against are smarter than me, more charming, but I can control how hard I work. I value that. And you would still have that too. You just choose more thoughtful and to sort of deploy that. And I'll tell you, you know, it's somewhat sobering too. Like my youngest is four now. And so, and he's a boy and my two older ones are girls, 10 and eight. When we were sort of in virtual preschool, it was complete rubbish, frankly, for a little kid. But, you know, I'm sitting here staring in front of a laptop, and he wants to come in, and, you know, he would get scooted away. Thank my wife, because we're trying to get work done. And she would say, no, daddy's busy. Daddy's busy. And what sort of was a bit of, like, funny, but also kind of a, like, a knife to the heart and a twis…

AI assessment note: “You just choose more thoughtful and to sort of deploy that.”

Q I find it amazing that all these early stage investors are like, oh, it's fine, it's fine, we're going to be great, and I think multiplier effect is real, and the trickle down will happen. Given what we're seeing here, and what I think will be a trickle down, how do you expect this to hit pricing on three different sectors, seed and early, series A and B, and growth?

A I think growth will be hit the hardest, because there, the universe of alternatives, particularly for some of the largest investors, is Private company A at multiple X or public company B at multiple Y. And the difference is that multiple Y just went down by 30, 40%. So I think that's a very obvious choice for a potential investor to look at. And that's why I think you're seeing some of the retrenchment in sort of the latest rounds. And I think the other part of that is, you know, some of these companies in these practical rounds, like I said, while they were able to list last year, the price performances has been down. So I think some of the investor types who are very used to being able to buy and sell stock on a daily basis I've seen it thinking, why am I paying a higher multiple for something that's further away from liquidity? And even when it does get public, I could be locked up for six months and have that capital not be able to be used for a different investment opportunity. So I think you're already seeing pressure there. I think that does eventually move down because, you know, the series A and B investor wants to know that at some point there'll be a higher valuation in a later stage private or public round. And so some of those assumptions may get me sort of get ratcheted downward a little bit. And then I think that will, of course, then happen at the seed. But the…

AI assessment note: “I think growth will be hit the hardest”

Q there's, there's obviously a personal best Which is very different, may we add. I totally agree with you. Listen, in terms of it being the best decision year, what a year last year was for you. Six companies you're involved with IPO-ing. I mean, that's astounding. But it led me to think, given the hit rate you've had, do you think venture is more a game of picking or access?

A That is a really good question, and I will try to give a truthful answer that doesn't sound like a hedge. I think at earlier in seed stages, I think there's Probably more picking going on. I think that those stages companies need capital or else they're likely to die. Capital is more like a necessity. I think as you get much, much later sort of companies that are perhaps about to go public, they're no longer secrets or, you know, hidden secrets. And so then it's access because that point there's usually, at least prior to the last three months or so, a lot more demand for the opportunity to invest than there actually is, you know, space in a round. I think there's a spectrum on which the two ends of the scale maybe start to

AI assessment note: “at earlier in seed stages, I think there's Probably more picking going on”

Q No, no, I spoke to your wife. Yeah, she's coming on next, actually. That's next week. Oh boy. Eric, you're part two. No, my question to you was, you know, it is such a important and pivotal change to one's life. How did having children impact your, your operating, your investing mindset, do you think?

A Okay, it definitely helped me focus on the things that are important because, you know, you now have this part of your life that you want to spend a lot more time on and have a responsibility to spend more time on. It's sort of as a nice forcing function to winnow away things that are less important, which I think is great. I think the other thing actually that really taught me about the investing is you can try and control all the things you can control, but there are going to be a lot of things that are outside of your control and you just have to deal with it. And I think you learn that pretty early on when you have, for example, a newborn, because you can do everything you think you're supposed to be doing, whether it's feeding or diaper changing or burping, and your baby is still going to cry. And, you know, I think if you're used to having a lot of control to now have No control over this tiny little human being at any time of day is really humbling, but I think all you can do is like try and do the best that you can with that, and eventually you realize that's also true, you know, in your professional life. So many things you can control. I can't control whether the stock market goes up or down, but I can control trying to meet with the best companies and being the best partner I can be to the companies we've already invested in.

AI assessment note: “it definitely helped me focus on the things that are important”

Q that walk with the entrepreneur, I spoke to many of your founders before the show, and it was David at Masterclass who said that you are amazing when it comes to, in his words, guiding and not overstepping. Now this is a tough thing to do, as we both know, How do you think you do this well? And how do you approach that balance of guiding, but not overstepping?

A Well, I think it starts with having a little bit of, if I'm allowed to say so, self-awareness. So I've never run a company. I probably wouldn't be very good at it. So I try and break the decision or the areas where I'm opining into. If there are things that are specific management decisions, you know, more operational, I'll probably be less heavy on those. But I think if there are things that are bigger picture topics that Things that may have, you know, longer term ramifications. I'm much more happy to express opinions. And I would also say that, you know, the nature of what we do as significant minority investors versus buyout firms that control the entire story. And, you know, there, if someone says jump questions, how high here, I think we are more constructive and one of several voices in a given situation. I hope the board would agree is that let's give our CEO our best thinking. The CEO may agree with some all or none of it, but at least we're giving options And material for consideration. And then you have to go back to, well, you don't trust your CEO to make the decision. You probably invested in the wrong company or person.

AI assessment note: “specific management decisions, you know, more operational, I'll probably be less heavy on those”

Q of relationships. I totally agree with you, Zoom, and, you know, video conferencing, part of that. I think also proliferation of capital and compression of fundraising timelines is part of that. My question to you is, like, how do you think about dealing and winning in a world of such compressed timelines with the likes of Tiger and co to willing to write that 50 check on a first call?

A I think like many other situations life, whether it's business or sports competition forces you to improve your own game and your own skills and your own attributes. So that's a good thing. And that's Darwinism, I guess at its finest, I would say that we're trying to be more thoughtful and spend time getting, you know, companies and their businesses and markets earlier. And I think that's something that is a, an approach that was brought to bear on the venture industry by those who come from more of a public investing heritage. Because their view is I can invest in the stock anytime. I might as well do my work and then I'll decide and I'll wait. I think that's really been a good thing. I think it's benefited entrepreneurs for sure. You know, the idea of, you know, have a first meeting. So tell me about your company and you know nothing like that's a dead meeting. And that's actually great. It saves time, saves the entrepreneurs time so they can get back to running their companies and doing the businesses. So that's a positive development. But again, I think it goes for us, you know, refinement of what you want to do, how you want to do it. And for us, I think it's getting to know people and away from this transactional dynamic, even ahead of a process. I went on a walk with an entrepreneur, I guess it was It's probably November. We spent 30 minutes talking about kids, life, thi…

AI assessment note: “getting to know people and away from this transactional dynamic, even ahead of a process.”

Q there's, there's obviously a personal best Which is very different, may we add. I totally agree with you. Listen, in terms of it being the best decision year, what a year last year was for you. Six companies you're involved with IPO-ing. I mean, that's astounding. But it led me to think, given the hit rate you've had, do you think venture is more a game of picking or access?

A That is a really good question, and I will try to give a truthful answer that doesn't sound like a hedge. I think at earlier in seed stages, I think there's Probably more picking going on. I think that those stages companies need capital or else they're likely to die. Capital is more like a necessity. I think as you get much, much later sort of companies that are perhaps about to go public, they're no longer secrets or, you know, hidden secrets. And so then it's access because that point there's usually, at least prior to the last three months or so, a lot more demand for the opportunity to invest than there actually is, you know, space in a round. I think there's a spectrum on which the two ends of the scale maybe start to

AI assessment note: “I think at earlier in seed stages, I think there's Probably more picking going on.”

Q that walk with the entrepreneur, I spoke to many of your founders before the show, and it was David at Masterclass who said that you are amazing when it comes to, in his words, guiding and not overstepping. Now this is a tough thing to do, as we both know, How do you think you do this well? And how do you approach that balance of guiding, but not overstepping?

A Well, I think it starts with having a little bit of, if I'm allowed to say so, self-awareness. So I've never run a company. I probably wouldn't be very good at it. So I try and break the decision or the areas where I'm opining into. If there are things that are specific management decisions, you know, more operational, I'll probably be less heavy on those. But I think if there are things that are bigger picture topics that Things that may have, you know, longer term ramifications. I'm much more happy to express opinions. And I would also say that, you know, the nature of what we do as significant minority investors versus buyout firms that control the entire story. And, you know, there, if someone says jump questions, how high here, I think we are more constructive and one of several voices in a given situation. I hope the board would agree is that let's give our CEO our best thinking. The CEO may agree with some all or none of it, but at least we're giving options And material for consideration. And then you have to go back to, well, you don't trust your CEO to make the decision. You probably invested in the wrong company or person.

AI assessment note: “specific management decisions, you know, more operational, I'll probably be less heavy on those”

Q Can I ask, how has your style of board membership changed over the years? It does change a lot. How do you think yours has changed?

A I think there's an arc earlier in my career. By definition, you have less experience. And so opinions that I offered were probably triple grounded in some data that the company was providing, because I wanted to make sure if I was going to say something, it was on more than just, we should do this because my gut says so. I don't mean to be dismissive, but you're 26 as a, you know, an investor and only in an upcycle, like you, you may not have, you know, a fully developed gut, you know, and there was, I think, was it an Abe Lincoln saying? Then I also sort of thought about, it is better to remain silent and have people think you are a fool than to speak and remove all doubt. So I wanted to make sure I, you know, called my shot wisely. I would say that, you know, certainly I've been doing this a little longer. I've seen things go well. I've seen things go poorly and partying in that sort of guiding, but not overstepping is sharing some of those experiences. And so I still certainly try to be grounded in data when I come to conclusions that offer for discussion, but I can now sort of link some items. Like if this happens, this happens, this happens, we may wind up in a bad spot. Let's talk about that. We may not necessarily go down that path, but at least let's talk about how we avoid that. If that makes sense.

AI assessment note: “I think there's an arc earlier in my career. By definition, you have less experience.”

Q Can I ask, how has your style of board membership changed over the years? It does change a lot. How do you think yours has changed?

A I think there's an arc earlier in my career. By definition, you have less experience. And so opinions that I offered were probably triple grounded in some data that the company was providing, because I wanted to make sure if I was going to say something, it was on more than just, we should do this because my gut says so. I don't mean to be dismissive, but you're 26 as a, you know, an investor and only in an upcycle, like you, you may not have, you know, a fully developed gut, you know, and there was, I think, was it an Abe Lincoln saying? Then I also sort of thought about, it is better to remain silent and have people think you are a fool than to speak and remove all doubt. So I wanted to make sure I, you know, called my shot wisely. I would say that, you know, certainly I've been doing this a little longer. I've seen things go well. I've seen things go poorly and partying in that sort of guiding, but not overstepping is sharing some of those experiences. And so I still certainly try to be grounded in data when I come to conclusions that offer for discussion, but I can now sort of link some items. Like if this happens, this happens, this happens, we may wind up in a bad spot. Let's talk about that. We may not necessarily go down that path, but at least let's talk about how we avoid that. If that makes sense.

AI assessment note: “I can now sort of link some items”

Q of relationships. I totally agree with you, Zoom, and, you know, video conferencing, part of that. I think also proliferation of capital and compression of fundraising timelines is part of that. My question to you is, like, how do you think about dealing and winning in a world of such compressed timelines with the likes of Tiger and co to willing to write that 50 check on a first call?

A I think like many other situations life, whether it's business or sports competition forces you to improve your own game and your own skills and your own attributes. So that's a good thing. And that's Darwinism, I guess at its finest, I would say that we're trying to be more thoughtful and spend time getting, you know, companies and their businesses and markets earlier. And I think that's something that is a, an approach that was brought to bear on the venture industry by those who come from more of a public investing heritage. Because their view is I can invest in the stock anytime. I might as well do my work and then I'll decide and I'll wait. I think that's really been a good thing. I think it's benefited entrepreneurs for sure. You know, the idea of, you know, have a first meeting. So tell me about your company and you know nothing like that's a dead meeting. And that's actually great. It saves time, saves the entrepreneurs time so they can get back to running their companies and doing the businesses. So that's a positive development. But again, I think it goes for us, you know, refinement of what you want to do, how you want to do it. And for us, I think it's getting to know people and away from this transactional dynamic, even ahead of a process. I went on a walk with an entrepreneur, I guess it was It's probably November. We spent 30 minutes talking about kids, life, thi…

AI assessment note: “for us, I think it's getting to know people and away from this transactional dynamic”

Q What makes me good is clearly not my good looks. It's the fact I just fucking grind. I work hard, hard, all the time, so I'm worried that I will just become mediocre if suddenly you have kids, and you have a family, and then you have the weekend with your family and your kids, which is wonderful, but if my USP is my work ethic, what do you think?

A Well, I'll go back Priorities. And so, you know, you tend to find, this is now talking more about maybe life than venture, but you'd probably find like when you have kids by sort of nature of 24 hours a day and want to get sleep and all that, probably don't see as many of your friends as you used to. Kind of a bummer. But you sort of, there's, like I said, it's sort of forcing function and there's a new priority in your life and that's your kids. I think it's a beautiful thing. And I'm with you, like grinding is all I have too. Then it goes back to that, like I can't control whether people I'm competing against are smarter than me, more charming, but I can control how hard I work. I value that, and you would still have that, too. You just choose more thoughtful when to sort of deploy that, and I'll tell you, you know, it's somewhat sobering, too. Like, my youngest, he was four now, and so, and he's a boy, and my two older ones are girls, 10 and eight. When we were sort of in virtual preschool, it was complete rubbish, frankly, for a little kid, but, you know, I'm sitting here staring in front of a laptop, and he wants to come in, and, you know, he would get scooted away, thank my wife, because we're trying to get work done, and she would say, no, daddy's busy, daddy's busy, and what sort of was a bit of, like, Funny, but also kind of a, like a knife to the heart and a twist is …

AI assessment note: “you would still have that, too. You just choose more thoughtful when to sort of deploy that”

Q so when we get to that slightly later stage, not in the early, early stages, I heard that there's no amount of miles that you won't travel. Apparently, you literally topped the leaderboard for, like, you know, airline points. Very strategic of you to choose. My question is, like, what's your favorite hustle story of traveling to win a deal? What happened? How did it go down? Take me there.

A Well, it's, that's a dubious distinction. Maybe I'll give you two, because I think they're both a lot of fun. We were looking at Supercell, Helsinki, Finland. Late December of Some meetings. They had actually launched their first really successful game of the summer of 2012, and so we're kind of climbing the charts. Now, we met them in California. The CEO, Ilko, was here visiting, and then the holidays passed, and we were very strongly concerned making the investment, and I, I didn't feel this was obviously in a pre-coval role. I didn't feel comfortable without actually going there, meeting the company, seeing the offices, spending more time, and so I went there in January of 2013, pretty far north. It was the darkest place I had ever been, and we thought we were going to make the investment. We didn't yet know, We're getting to know one other. They were very kind, took me out to dinner, so we went to a very traditional lapish restaurant, and Lapland is a district in Finland that's further north, you know, a lot of it's inside the Arctic Circle, so if you think of where Santa Claus might live, he's probably up in Lapland somewhere.

AI assessment note: “Maybe I'll give you two, because I think they're both a lot of fun.”

Q so when we get to that slightly later stage, not in the early, early stages, I heard that there's no amount of miles that you won't travel. Apparently, you literally topped the leaderboard for, like, you know, airline points. Very strategic of you to choose. My question is, like, what's your favorite hustle story of traveling to win a deal? What happened? How did it go down? Take me there.

A Well, it's, that's a dubious distinction. Maybe I'll give you two, because I think they're both a lot of fun. We were looking at Supercell, Helsinki, Finland. Late December of Some meetings. They had actually launched their first really successful game of the summer of 2012, and so we're kind of climbing the charts. Now, we met them in California. The CEO, Ilko, was here visiting, and then the holidays passed, and we were very strongly concerned making the investment, and I, I didn't feel this was obviously in a pre-coval role. I didn't feel comfortable without actually going there, meeting the company, seeing the offices, spending more time, and so I went there in January of 2013, pretty far north. It was the darkest place I had ever been, and we thought we were going to make the investment. We didn't yet know, We're getting to know one other. They were very kind, took me out to dinner, so we went to a very traditional lapish restaurant, and Lapland is a district in Finland that's further north, you know, a lot of it's inside the Arctic Circle, so if you think of where Santa Claus might live, he's probably up in Lapland somewhere.

AI assessment note: “We were looking at Supercell, Helsinki, Finland.”

Q I love Dina, but now it's time for our final one with Eric, your partner at IVP. If suddenly you have kids, and you have a family, and then you have the weekend with your family and your kids, which is wonderful, but if my USP is my work ethic, what do you think?

A Well, it'll go back to priorities, and so, you know, you tend to find, this is now talking more, oh, maybe life than venture, but you'd probably find, like, when you have kids, by sort of nature of 24 hours a day, and you want to get sleep and all that, you probably don't see as many of your friends as you used to. Kind of a bummer, but you sort of, there's, like I said, it's sort of forcing function and there's a new priority in your life and that's your kids. I think it's a beautiful thing. And I'm with you. Like grinding is all I have too. And it goes back to that. Like I can't control whether people I'm competing against are smarter than me, more charming, but I can control how hard I work. I value that. And you would still have that too. You just choose more thoughtful and to sort of deploy that. And I'll tell you, you know, it's somewhat sobering too. Like my youngest is four now. And so, and he's a boy and my two older ones are girls, 10 and eight. When we were sort of in virtual preschool, it was complete rubbish, frankly, for a little kid. But, you know, I'm sitting here staring in front of a laptop, and he wants to come in, and, you know, he would get scooted away. Thank my wife, because we're trying to get work done. And she would say, no, daddy's busy. Daddy's busy. And what sort of was a bit of, like, funny, but also kind of a, like, a knife to the heart and a twis…

AI assessment note: “You would still have that too. You just choose more thoughtful and to sort of deploy that.”

Q isolating data points, because when I spoke to Will Woot, he said in particular, your grasp of, your ability to grasp so much information so quickly, and then narrow down and prioritize which are the most important is truly unique. I wanted to ask that, how do you approach this prioritization of data point? And if we expand on his point, what do you think you do so well there?

A That's flattering first, so I appreciate it. Thanks, Will. I'll go back to the self-awareness point. There's no way as a board member investor, I will know more about what's going on inside of a company Then the CEO, if I do, there's a major problem, but I shouldn't, and I will know a lot less. If I'm sort of sitting there trying to have strong opinions on every piece of information, A, it's probably going to be wrong, and B, it means, again, back to that trust question, not trusting the right person, and so I'm trying to focus on things that can be sort of deterministic to the outcome of a project, of an investment initiative, of a year's planning, and let's focus on making sure that we stress test that so that we have the best chance of success. I don't know how to say how to do it, but it's a guiding principle of sort of the focus on the things that I think can be really needle moving. It's not going to be needle moving if your drop down menu is six items or five. It's not going to be needle moving if you use a radio button or something else. But what does that actually lead you to do? That'll be more needle moving. We should talk about that.

AI assessment note: “I'm trying to focus on things that can be sort of deterministic to the outcome”

Q Yep, listen, I totally get you in any Jennifer Aniston movies, that one for me. Tell me, price sensitivity is one I go back and forth on personally. How do you reflect on your own price sensitivity stay, and how do you determine when to flex, and when to stay disciplined?

A Yeah, oh boy, I really struggle with that too. That's probably, at least for the stage of investing, that I spend most of my time on the hardest question. Again, not being A seed investor. At that point, it seems like a more binary outcome. It works or it doesn't. A lot of them aren't going to work, but when it works, it works. It really, really works. We're investing. Things are sort of working, but they can still lose momentum before they escape velocity, if you will. So that's one way to get it wrong. And the other way to sort of get it wrong after making the investment, you know, they grow, but they don't ever get to be sort of this transformational household name company. And then valuation is important because it might be the difference between getting your money back or making three times, which isn't the worst thing. Now, on the other hand, when you do stretch, it does give you the opportunity to make more investments, which then gives you the chance to potentially be in something that surprises you massively to the upside. And so trying to figure that out with a high degree of precision is difficult.

AI assessment note: “trying to figure that out with a high degree of precision is difficult.”

Q What's one of the hardest aspects of being one of the leaders of IVP today?

A I think about it this way. You know, IVP was founded for a few years ago, and our founder, Reed Dennis, is into his nineties, and he's with us, but I have not spent as much time with him as others who've been with the firm longer. But the point I'm trying to make is that we who are leaders of the firm today are stewards of an organization, and I think my responsibility is going to sound tacky, but I truly believe it. My responsibility is to make sure that it's in a better place when I ultimately leave than it was when I got here, and that's the love to live up to, and the good news is I have, we have a team, and I don't bear that responsibility solely, but I have part of it.

AI assessment note: “responsibility is to make sure that it's in a better place when I ultimately leave”

Q isolating data points, because when I spoke to Will Woot, he said in particular, your grasp of, your ability to grasp so much information so quickly, and then narrow down and prioritize which are the most important is truly unique. I wanted to ask that, how do you approach this prioritization of data point? And if we expand on his point, what do you think you do so well there?

A That's flattering first, so I appreciate it. Thanks, Will. I'll go back to the self-awareness point. There's no way as a board member investor, I will know more about what's going on inside of a company Then the CEO, if I do, there's a major problem, but I shouldn't, and I will know a lot less. If I'm sort of sitting there trying to have strong opinions on every piece of information, A, it's probably going to be wrong, and B, it means, again, back to that trust question, not trusting the right person, and so I'm trying to focus on things that can be sort of deterministic to the outcome of a project, of an investment initiative, of a year's planning, and let's focus on making sure that we stress test that so that we have the best chance of success. I don't know how to say how to do it, but it's a guiding principle of sort of the focus on the things that I think can be really needle moving. It's not going to be needle moving if your drop down menu is six items or five. It's not going to be needle moving if you use a radio button or something else. But what does that actually lead you to do? That'll be more needle moving. We should talk about that.

AI assessment note: “I'm trying to focus on things that can be sort of deterministic to the outcome”

Q Yep, listen, I totally get you in any Jennifer Aniston movies, that one for me. Tell me, price sensitivity is one I go back and forth on personally. How do you reflect on your own price sensitivity stay, and how do you determine when to flex, and when to stay disciplined?

A Yeah, oh boy, I really struggle with that too. That's probably, at least for the stage of investing, that I spend most of my time on the hardest question. Again, not being A seed investor. At that point, it seems like a more binary outcome. It works or it doesn't. A lot of them aren't going to work, but when it works, it works. It really, really works. We're investing. Things are sort of working, but they can still lose momentum before they escape velocity, if you will. So that's one way to get it wrong. And the other way to sort of get it wrong after making the investment, you know, they grow, but they don't ever get to be sort of this transformational household name company. And then valuation is important because it might be the difference between getting your money back or making three times, which isn't the worst thing. Now, on the other hand, when you do stretch, it does give you the opportunity to make more investments, which then gives you the chance to potentially be in something that surprises you massively to the upside. And so trying to figure that out with a high degree of precision is difficult.

AI assessment note: “And so trying to figure that out with a high degree of precision is difficult.”

Q How do we change that? Like Twitter amplifies it. Podcasts like this don't help.

A Yeah, you're right. I say that as I'm participating. You know, I think there's a little bit of that. I mean, it's, I think it's great to celebrate success. And I think there is more of that in this industry than other competitive ones. Like it feels like, and maybe this is the same example, the echo chamber, but like Carl Icahn shorting something because Bill Ackman bought it kind of stuff. Like you don't really see that happening in the venture business. I think there is more like, like, you know, we can try and all help build things because it's a little bit more, it's a different mentality. I like that. But I think that, hey, did you hear so-and-so did this seed? And then that becomes the A, and then everyone's like, oh, you're so smart. Like, it's lost some of the sincerity, and that's too bad.

AI assessment note: “Yeah, you're right. I say that as I'm participating.”