The Exchanges

Q How did you find tech for the first time?

A I found tech, um, When, um, I, I lived in L.A. I lived in L.A. with my dad for two years. I never, I never spent time with him except for this time, right? It was an emergency. In Nicaragua there was a, a, a forced draft. You had to go to the, to fight the war. Like we had a, like an internal war, civil war. Um, and so my mom called him up and she's like, you have a dad? I was like, I'm gonna send you to L.A. so you don't, you don't get taken to fight. And so I was like, I don't want to go to the mountains to fight, and I get to meet my dad. Let's go. And I get to go to the United States. And so I met him, uh, so I spent there about two years, and, um, he bought, like, a stolen computer. Like, people came and sold him, you know, and so I, he put it in the garage, and, and, uh, and he said, go play with it. And so that's, it's like an IBM computer, like, you know, in the eighties, and I would be typing my homework in this printer in WordPerfect and using Lotus one, two, three. That was the beginning. I think that planted the seed that I was just attracted to this device and what it was able to do. I just enjoyed it.

AI assessment note: “he bought, like, a stolen computer... That was the beginning.”

Q How did you find tech for the first time?

A I found tech, um, When, um, I, I lived in L.A. I lived in L.A. with my dad for two years. I never, I never spent time with him except for this time, right? It was an emergency. In Nicaragua there was a, a, a forced draft. You had to go to the, to fight the war. Like we had a, like an internal war, civil war. Um, and so my mom called him up and she's like, you have a dad? I was like, I'm gonna send you to L.A. so you don't, you don't get taken to fight. And so I was like, I don't want to go to the mountains to fight, and I get to meet my dad. Let's go. And I get to go to the United States. And so I met him, uh, so I spent there about two years, and, um, he bought, like, a stolen computer. Like, people came and sold him, you know, and so I, he put it in the garage, and, and, uh, and he said, go play with it. And so that's, it's like an IBM computer, like, you know, in the eighties, and I would be typing my homework in this printer in WordPerfect and using Lotus one, two, three. That was the beginning. I think that planted the seed that I was just attracted to this device and what it was able to do. I just enjoyed it.

AI assessment note: “he bought, like, a stolen computer... like an IBM computer... That was the beginning.”

Q I, I just want to start on a little bit of causation there. Why can elephants not dance? I saw a recent post from Owen at Intercom, who's a friend, and he was like, everything I know about management is, like, fucking wrong. And why can't elephants dance?

A The number of people. Humans. We're, we're, we're, we're the blockage, right, in, in, in terms of adopting AI and technology. It's, um, you know, my last company, Drift, before we sold to, uh, to, to Vista, private equity, right, it was 800 people. I was consumed. I mean, I know big companies that have, you know, a thousand product managers. You know what I mean? It's like, imagine, I don't even know, like, how much Microsoft has, or like, just try to picture that Salesforce, right? Uh, most of those people, like, nobody gets fired for saying no. Right. So everybody like will not buy the right product or will not build the right thing. Right. Uh, it's easier to just coast. Uh, when you start spending all this time, all these people focus on, on, on promotions, on like, I gotta go home. I'm working too hard. I have to send an email at the end of the week saying five things I did this week. It's like, you're toast. You can't, you can't move. That's why they don't move fast. Cause you have to get all these approvals. You know, when you're a CEO of a public company and you spend all this time reporting and, and analysts and press and all this other stuff, how much time are you spending with the customers? How much are you spending building the product? Who has the vision? Who makes the big decisions?

AI assessment note: “The number of people. Humans. We're, we're, we're, we're the blockage”

Q Do you think entrepreneurs who are brought up in wealthy families are advantaged because they have connections, because there is some forms of nepotism sometimes available? What do you think actually having nothing shows you how bad it can be and how much you want it?

A Grid is everywhere, right? It's, it's not distributed only to the people who have nothing. We just get beaten up so much that we, we develop it, uh, in, in, in larger quantities, but yeah, I mean, I think, you know, my kids are going to grow up different, right? They're going to have, uh, ability to work with my companies, they're going to have my network, they have my access, they have my money, and sometimes I wrote a post on LinkedIn when I said, quit now, you're a company, big company, it's time. I don't, don't worry about that bonus. Don't worry about that title. Don't worry about that salary. And then my, my daughter's like, dad, why are you posting such things? Not everybody has the luxury that you have today. I didn't have the luxury that I have today when I first started, right? I have the right to post that. I'm not making stuff up. And she goes, yeah, the problem is me. I can't say those things because I had those old, those things from the beginning.

AI assessment note: “they're going to have my network, they have my access, they have my money”

Q Oh, don't worry, it's cool. I always do this, don't worry. You clearly haven't seen all the shows. Um, oh, we're going to go to customers, but I do just want to stay on the hiring. Um, is there a process And has the process changed over time?

A Yes. Big difference. Um, so I used to be intense. It was a numbers game, right? And we wanted more, more, more, more. And so, like, I had to go really fast, and I would force people and convince people, and, and I would, I would convince more people than I should have. I could convince anyone. I'm, I'm a good recruiter, right? But I've realized now that that's not the same, right? Now this time, um, I'm pushing back. More people know me now, more people know my reputation, more people want to join. Um, but it's like, it's, it's important to not fall for, for this. There was people that would reverse engineer my process, and they would know how to talk to me in a way that would just touch the right points. Now, it doesn't matter what you say to me, I have to reject, reject, reject, push back, push back, push back, right? And so like, if you don't, if you don't handle the pushback, Uh, I do a lot of contracting now. You have to work for me part time. Um, so either you're available or you're not, you need to show me your grit. How much work can you do while you're doing something else? I used to hire fast Fire slowish, right? Now I'm higher slow, fire fast, right? And so people never fire fast enough. Like every time I fire someone, right? Even though I'm a good fire now, right? It's like, I would always like, everybody knew, right? Ah, it was so hard, and it just became harder an…

AI assessment note: “I used to hire fast Fire slowish, right? Now I'm higher slow”

Q spoke to, um, um, Dharmesh. I spoke to, uh, uh, Pat. They all said that you're literally the best they know when it comes to recruiting, which I thought was really interesting to have that one commonality from all three as your single biggest strength. And so I have to start. You recruited Andrew at Klaviyo, Whitney, who's now HubSpot CTO, Chris O'Donnell at Daynow. What is your hiring criteria?

A Everybody wants to know the secret, right? I, I think My higher criteria, my, my hiring criteria is high agency. You have to have IQ. You have to have grit. You have to have execution speed. You have to be obsessed. The way that I recruit, I'm a weird engineer. Like, you know, people do all, done all the psychology tests on like my teams that I build, and they're all like, this is the most extroverted engineering team I've ever seen in my life, right? And it was like, they're all so intense. They all talk to the customers. And so I don't, I tend to not hire like that many introvert engineers, right? What happens is that The way that I recruit is so intense. I'm so in your face. I need you to make a decision now. Uh, I'm gonna ask you to go on the most dangerous expedition ever gone. You know, we, we gotta take HubSpot public. You know, we gotta build drift from scratch. You know, we have to create, you know, a fastest blah, blah, blah, this, two hundred million in revenue. And so that just scares so many people. I, I just rub so many people the wrong way during my interview process.

AI assessment note: “my hiring criteria is high agency. You have to have IQ. You have to have grit.”

Q Has there ever been a time when you felt like you were letting them down as a father?

A All the time, right, because it's like, did I, I, I saw all this, all these parents, you know, that were older when I was working, right, and it'd be like, oh, I, I just restored this car with my kids, and my, my kid is an Olympian, and my kid is going to be like a pianist, world pianist, and I'm like, shit, I had no money, I couldn't do tutors for them, I couldn't do any of that stuff, and so then I was like, maybe I'm gonna teach them how to be engineers, right, and it's like, that's one thing I could teach them how to code early. And I still fail at that because I was so busy. It was either doing the dishes or, or, or making sure the systems were up at the company. And so, I felt like I let them down, but, but, um.

AI assessment note: “All the time, right, because it's like”

Q I, I just want to start on a little bit of causation there. Why can elephants not dance? I saw a recent post from Owen at Intercom, who's a friend, and he was like, everything I know about management is, like, fucking wrong. And why can't elephants dance?

A The number of people. Humans. We're, we're, we're, we're the blockage, right, in, in, in terms of adopting AI and technology. It's, um, you know, my last company, Drift, before we sold to, uh, to, to Vista, private equity, right, it was 800 people. I was consumed. I mean, I know big companies that have, you know, a thousand product managers. You know what I mean? It's like, imagine, I don't even know, like, how much Microsoft has, or like, just try to picture that Salesforce, right? Uh, most of those people, like, nobody gets fired for saying no. Right. So everybody like will not buy the right product or will not build the right thing. Right. Uh, it's easier to just coast. Uh, when you start spending all this time, all these people focus on, on, on promotions, on like, I gotta go home. I'm working too hard. I have to send an email at the end of the week saying five things I did this week. It's like, you're toast. You can't, you can't move. That's why they don't move fast. Cause you have to get all these approvals. You know, when you're a CEO of a public company and you spend all this time reporting and, and analysts and press and all this other stuff, how much time are you spending with the customers? How much are you spending building the product? Who has the vision? Who makes the big decisions?

AI assessment note: “The number of people. Humans. We're, we're, we're, we're the blockage”

Q spoke to, um, um, Dharmesh. I spoke to, uh, uh, Pat. They all said that you're literally the best they know when it comes to recruiting, which I thought was really interesting to have that one commonality from all three as your single biggest strength. And so I have to start. You recruited Andrew at Klaviyo, Whitney, who's now HubSpot CTO, Chris O'Donnell at Daynow. What is your hiring criteria?

A Everybody wants to know the secret, right? I, I think My higher criteria, my, my hiring criteria is high agency. You have to have IQ. You have to have grit. You have to have execution speed. You have to be obsessed. The way that I recruit, I'm a weird engineer. Like, you know, people do all, done all the psychology tests on like my teams that I build, and they're all like, this is the most extroverted engineering team I've ever seen in my life, right? And it was like, they're all so intense. They all talk to the customers. And so I don't, I tend to not hire like that many introvert engineers, right? What happens is that The way that I recruit is so intense. I'm so in your face. I need you to make a decision now. Uh, I'm gonna ask you to go on the most dangerous expedition ever gone. You know, we, we gotta take HubSpot public. You know, we gotta build drift from scratch. You know, we have to create, you know, a fastest blah, blah, blah, this, two hundred million in revenue. And so that just scares so many people. I, I just rub so many people the wrong way during my interview process.

AI assessment note: “my hiring criteria is high agency. You have to have IQ. You have to have grit.”

Q Is your mindset towards profitability in the journey different from where it was in previous cases?

A Yes, yes. We, we, it was something that we were taught not to worry about it, right, in, in the past. It's like, it's a Zerp, right? It's like, and profitability was never a discussion. I mean, Pat gave me a class on, on free cash flow at one point in time, you know, because there were some, some big players in the Sequoia portfolio doing things like that. But now I think about a lot more, right? I'm thinking more about enduring company more than anything else, right? Whatever that takes, right? If I can make this profitable for a hundred people, and I can make something last longer, you know, I'm more driven about legacy now than I am about money.

AI assessment note: “Yes, yes. We, we, it was something that we were taught not to worry about”

Q Has there ever been a time when you felt like you were letting them down as a father?

A All the time, right, because it's like, did I, I, I saw all this, all these parents, you know, that were older when I was working, right, and it'd be like, oh, I, I just restored this car with my kids, and my, my kid is an Olympian, and my kid is going to be like a pianist, world pianist, and I'm like, shit, I had no money, I couldn't do tutors for them, I couldn't do any of that stuff, and so then I was like, maybe I'm gonna teach them how to be engineers, right, and it's like, that's one thing I could teach them how to code early. And I still fail at that because I was so busy. It was either doing the dishes or, or, or making sure the systems were up at the company. And so, I felt like I let them down, but, but, um.

AI assessment note: “All the time, right, because it's like”

Q Do you think entrepreneurs who are brought up in wealthy families are advantaged because they have connections, because there is some forms of nepotism sometimes available? What do you think actually having nothing shows you how bad it can be and how much you want it?

A Grid is everywhere, right? It's, it's not distributed only to the people who have nothing. We just get beaten up so much that we, we develop it, uh, in, in, in larger quantities, but yeah, I mean, I think, you know, my kids are going to grow up different, right? They're going to have, uh, ability to work with my companies, they're going to have my network, they have my access, they have my money, and sometimes I wrote a post on LinkedIn when I said, quit now, you're a company, big company, it's time. I don't, don't worry about that bonus. Don't worry about that title. Don't worry about that salary. And then my, my daughter's like, dad, why are you posting such things? Not everybody has the luxury that you have today. I didn't have the luxury that I have today when I first started, right? I have the right to post that. I'm not making stuff up. And she goes, yeah, the problem is me. I can't say those things because I had those old, those things from the beginning.

AI assessment note: “Grid is everywhere, right? It's, it's not distributed only to the people who have nothing.”

Q Okay, so fuck you money. How do you think about that relationship to money?

A It is, uh, like I said, is, it reduces a lot of the physical and material stress. Such a blessing from an immigrant that had nothing to not worry about, like, you know, I, I focus on the small stuff, right? Just get a car whenever you need it, you know, um, do, um, you know, stay at whatever hotel you want, fly to wherever you want, eat wherever you want. That's just like, that's like the basics, you know, it's, it's great not to worry. I believe a lot in assistance, you know, eventually we'll have them with AI. Like, you need help. I think people are wasting their time trying to be all frugal or this. I want to focus my time on the customers, right? And, and my team and my people. I don't want to do anything else, right? So, those are the nice luxuries.

AI assessment note: “it reduces a lot of the physical and material stress.”

Q I love Fialco. Um, is selling a company What we are told it is?

A There's pros and cons. Um, it was, uh, like I said, it was, it's sad to, to, to be nobody, right? To be, to walk around in your own company, and you don't matter anymore, right? You bring new CEO, you bring new management, it hurts the ego, right? And you created this, and then you're no longer relevant, uh, or that you couldn't take it further, and so, it was a great experience for me to be, The post-drift days, I spent like, seven, 10 months, you know, traveling and trying to find myself. It, it was a tough journey. There's people that done some nice graph of what happens in the depression and the sadness, and you're nobody, you have no job, you have no meetings, ah, but it was great. I needed that break.

AI assessment note: “There's pros and cons. Um, it was, uh, like I said, it was, it's sad”

Q So you do not worry about the future of human labor and productivity?

A No. Let's go travel. Let's go feed. Let's go farm. Like, I would go plant, you know what I mean? If I wasn't building an agency, like, I'll go have a farm and, like, plant some, like, you know, beans and just watch them grow, right? There's other things we could do with ourselves. I want to learn how to paint. I just was at the Grand Egyptian Museum. Like, I want to go study that stuff. I want to learn it. I want to have fun. I want to think about different pharaohs and kings. There's so much we can be doing, right? I'm not going to be like, let me take another job at Salesforce. That's great. You know? No.

AI assessment note: “No. Let's go travel. Let's go feed. Let's go farm.”

Q So you do not worry about the future of human labor and productivity?

A No. Let's go travel. Let's go feed. Let's go farm. Like, I would go plant, you know what I mean? If I wasn't building an agency, like, I'll go have a farm and, like, plant some, like, you know, beans and just watch them grow, right? There's other things we could do with ourselves. I want to learn how to paint. I just was at the Grand Egyptian Museum. Like, I want to go study that stuff. I want to learn it. I want to have fun. I want to think about different pharaohs and kings. There's so much we can be doing, right? I'm not going to be like, let me take another job at Salesforce. That's great. You know? No.

AI assessment note: “No. Let's go travel. Let's go feed. Let's go farm.”

Q Oh, don't worry, it's cool. I always do this, don't worry. You clearly haven't seen all the shows. Um, oh, we're going to go to customers, but I do just want to stay on the hiring. Um, is there a process And has the process changed over time?

A Yes. Big difference. Um, so I used to be intense. It was a numbers game, right? And we wanted more, more, more, more. And so, like, I had to go really fast, and I would force people and convince people, and, and I would, I would convince more people than I should have. I could convince anyone. I'm, I'm a good recruiter, right? But I've realized now that that's not the same, right? Now this time, um, I'm pushing back. More people know me now, more people know my reputation, more people want to join. Um, but it's like, it's, it's important to not fall for, for this. There was people that would reverse engineer my process, and they would know how to talk to me in a way that would just touch the right points. Now, it doesn't matter what you say to me, I have to reject, reject, reject, push back, push back, push back, right? And so like, if you don't, if you don't handle the pushback, Uh, I do a lot of contracting now. You have to work for me part time. Um, so either you're available or you're not, you need to show me your grit. How much work can you do while you're doing something else? I used to hire fast Fire slowish, right? Now I'm higher slow, fire fast, right? And so people never fire fast enough. Like every time I fire someone, right? Even though I'm a good fire now, right? It's like, I would always like, everybody knew, right? Ah, it was so hard, and it just became harder an…

AI assessment note: “Yes. Big difference... I used to hire fast Fire slowish, right? Now I'm higher slow”

Q Is your mindset towards profitability in the journey different from where it was in previous cases?

A Yes, yes. We, we, it was something that we were taught not to worry about it, right, in, in the past. It's like, it's a Zerp, right? It's like, and profitability was never a discussion. I mean, Pat gave me a class on, on free cash flow at one point in time, you know, because there were some, some big players in the Sequoia portfolio doing things like that. But now I think about a lot more, right? I'm thinking more about enduring company more than anything else, right? Whatever that takes, right? If I can make this profitable for a hundred people, and I can make something last longer, you know, I'm more driven about legacy now than I am about money.

AI assessment note: “Yes, yes. We, we, it was something that we were taught not to worry”

Q Okay, so fuck you money. How do you think about that relationship to money?

A It is, uh, like I said, is, it reduces a lot of the physical and material stress. Such a blessing from an immigrant that had nothing to not worry about, like, you know, I, I focus on the small stuff, right? Just get a car whenever you need it, you know, um, do, um, you know, stay at whatever hotel you want, fly to wherever you want, eat wherever you want. That's just like, that's like the basics, you know, it's, it's great not to worry. I believe a lot in assistance, you know, eventually we'll have them with AI. Like, you need help. I think people are wasting their time trying to be all frugal or this. I want to focus my time on the customers, right? And, and my team and my people. I don't want to do anything else, right? So, those are the nice luxuries.

AI assessment note: “reduces a lot of the physical and material stress”

Q I love Fialco. Um, is selling a company What we are told it is?

A There's pros and cons. Um, it was, uh, like I said, it was, it's sad to, to, to be nobody, right? To be, to walk around in your own company, and you don't matter anymore, right? You bring new CEO, you bring new management, it hurts the ego, right? And you created this, and then you're no longer relevant, uh, or that you couldn't take it further, and so, it was a great experience for me to be, The post-drift days, I spent like, seven, 10 months, you know, traveling and trying to find myself. It, it was a tough journey. There's people that done some nice graph of what happens in the depression and the sadness, and you're nobody, you have no job, you have no meetings, ah, but it was great. I needed that break.

AI assessment note: “it's sad to, to, to be nobody, right? To be, to walk around”

Q Talk to me then about the sale process. Was that difficult for you?

A I told you that nothing is hard. It was not difficult. It's like, I'm an immigrant. Yeah, I'm just saying, but I'm just such a realist, right? I accept what it is. I don't let my pride try to, you know, my pride gets the best of me a lot of times, but I'm not going to be, I think that that was the smartest thing I did, right? It was not be emotional about it. A lot of people, even my investors would be like, Yes, you're worth a billion now. You could be worth two or four, and they multiply my equity times that, and say like, you know, look at all the other companies are growing, and because I did this in September of twenty-twenty-one, right? And so there's a lot of peers of mine that were like, four billion valuation, or stuff like that, and so we started a little bit earlier from some of those waves, so they were getting crazy valuations like Hopping, you know, or other companies, right? And so like, Um, outreach man, he's a good friend of mine, right? He's, he's in London. And so you see all this stuff, and that, like, affects your ego. Like, why am I not being valued when I'm a similar company? Sales loft was valued at two, right? And so.

AI assessment note: “I told you that nothing is hard. It was not difficult.”

Q Do you enjoy fundraising? Hiring and firing, sadly, is a crucial part of being a CEO. Do you enjoy fundraising?

A Not really, right? I mean, I think I like deals, right? I, I, I like, you know, whether it's I'm hiring someone, close the deal. Whether I'm hiring a customer, you know, like, closing the deal. Whether it's fundraising, yeah, closing the deal, right? Whether it's, um, I love that. I love that excitement, you know, when we were selling, uh, to, to, to private equity, right, I was, we had some bankers that, that the board asked me to hire, but I, I didn't really need them, but no, I mean, I was like, I like this job, this would be, this would be great, like, just, Every month, just like having two or three deals on flight. So I like doing deals, but in reality, I'm a relationship guy, right, and so I, I, I care more about what happens after. I care more about the relationship I have with the VC after, like, I love Pat, I love, you know, Izar from CRV, Fialco, Larry Bond from, from General Callas, those are my Jewish uncles, and like, you know what I mean? I, I, I like people. I like being with people.

AI assessment note: “Not really, right? I mean, I think I like deals, right?”

Q Do you enjoy fundraising? Hiring and firing, sadly, is a crucial part of being a CEO. Do you enjoy fundraising?

A Not really, right? I mean, I think I like deals, right? I, I, I like, you know, whether it's I'm hiring someone, close the deal. Whether I'm hiring a customer, you know, like, closing the deal. Whether it's fundraising, yeah, closing the deal, right? Whether it's, um, I love that. I love that excitement, you know, when we were selling, uh, to, to, to private equity, right, I was, we had some bankers that, that the board asked me to hire, but I, I didn't really need them, but no, I mean, I was like, I like this job, this would be, this would be great, like, just, Every month, just like having two or three deals on flight. So I like doing deals, but in reality, I'm a relationship guy, right, and so I, I, I care more about what happens after. I care more about the relationship I have with the VC after, like, I love Pat, I love, you know, Izar from CRV, Fialco, Larry Bond from, from General Callas, those are my Jewish uncles, and like, you know what I mean? I, I, I like people. I like being with people.

AI assessment note: “Not really, right? I mean, I think I like deals, right?”

Q I'm gonna, I need to hit my numbers, and my, this VC is telling me that I need this, and I need to hit the quarter, So like, they're good enough, but are they perfect? What do you say to them in that position?

A I'm saying I've been there. I hear you. I feel you. I've done that mistake, right? Don't do it. It is not worth it. And then I tell them, You know, I invest, right, and everything. And then, you know, founders come to me for advice, and I tell them, don't do it. That's the wrong person. And then when I hear my, I hate giving advice, right, because I don't even, don't anyone listen to this. Whatever I'm saying, don't listen to it, right, but it's like, they're like, I tell them, don't hire that person. And they're like, no, no, but I need to hire this person. And so I just see people living this lie, right, that they're like, convince themselves they're gonna still do it. And then they hire this person, and they keep them for two years, You know, people that I let go, right, people that I made a mistake on, and then they go, someone else takes them, and they just, the whole, the whole industry just keeps taking these people over and over, and I'm like.

AI assessment note: “I've done that mistake, right? Don't do it. It is not worth it.”

Q Talk to me then about the sale process. Was that difficult for you?

A I told you that nothing is hard. It was not difficult. It's like, I'm an immigrant. Yeah, I'm just saying, but I'm just such a realist, right? I accept what it is. I don't let my pride try to, you know, my pride gets the best of me a lot of times, but I'm not going to be, I think that that was the smartest thing I did, right? It was not be emotional about it. A lot of people, even my investors would be like, Yes, you're worth a billion now. You could be worth two or four, and they multiply my equity times that, and say like, you know, look at all the other companies are growing, and because I did this in September of twenty-twenty-one, right? And so there's a lot of peers of mine that were like, four billion valuation, or stuff like that, and so we started a little bit earlier from some of those waves, so they were getting crazy valuations like Hopping, you know, or other companies, right? And so like, Um, outreach man, he's a good friend of mine, right? He's, he's in London. And so you see all this stuff, and that, like, affects your ego. Like, why am I not being valued when I'm a similar company? Sales loft was valued at two, right? And so.

AI assessment note: “I told you that nothing is hard. It was not difficult.”

Q Um, you said title acceleration doesn't mean much. I saw on your Twitter that you're not a fan of titles, and you think titles will be removed. Why do you think that, and why are titles not useful?

A Because we're just ego-driven humans, right? We just want to build empires. We just want, everybody's obsessed. I mean, how many, how many young people I've hired, right, did they pull me aside and they said, Liz, can I get a shot at being a VP at your company? Like, you know, early days. I'm like, you just graduated college. Back off. You know what I mean? And so the thing about it is like, um, we just obsess with all that stuff, right? And so I'm looking for people that don't really care about that, right? We have to change the way we, we reward the team, right? Whether it's going to be profit sharing, revenue sharing, right? Whether it's going to be more equity, just higher salaries, right? These are the things that I'm thinking about constantly, right? If I'm going to have a hundred people, billion dollars in revenue, right? How am I going to compensate them? How am I going to retain them or not? They can't handle the first, you know, maybe they burn out after two years, then take a break. Here, take your equity. It's gonna be worth billions, you know, millions, alright, maybe billions. And so we go and we say, and then go start something else, right?

AI assessment note: “Because we're just ego-driven humans, right? We just want to build empires.”

Q So, that's marriage. On the father side, when you think back over the 21 years of fatherhood, anything that you know now that you wish you'd known when you became a father 21 years ago, when you were 27?

A I guess what I saw their parents or whatever in the past, like for example, my kids are like, you know, the five love languages. My kids love languages, uh, is touch, right? All three of them. And my daughter says, from you, dad, I want words of affirmation. So I've learned to be more, like, overcome that, like, oh, I don't want to be this dad. We had these images, and so on one side, you learn to be more loving and caring, and the other side, I wish I would have been tougher with them, and so, like, right now, I try to be tough, too, right, and it's like, because nothing compares to how I grew up. I mean, I was, like, beating the shit out of me, like, by my mom, like, I can go into specifics, And I love all that. I love my mother because of what she did at the time with what she knew, but she made me tougher, right? And so I think that we are too soft. Sorry, kids.

AI assessment note: “I wish I would have been tougher with them”

Q Why did you think ChatGBT wasn't the answer?

A I want to give you this insight, right? I think Software that has been built in the past 2030 years had the assumption, it was built kind of like, like we build cars. We build a car all around, and we build the entire environment, so a human goes and drives the car. Right? It requires an operator. The future is not going to require operators, so it's gonna be building, like, driverless cars, and they're completely different, right? Except that we are stuck with the roads and the signals and all this stuff, and so imagine when we can completely change transportation, right? What we're thinking is that we need to be building software with the assumption that I don't wanna know how to drive the car or do all this effort, I just wanna tell it where I wanna go, And when I want to go. And maybe choose the route.

AI assessment note: “we need to be building software with the assumption that I don't wanna know”

Q Um, you said title acceleration doesn't mean much. I saw on your Twitter that you're not a fan of titles, and you think titles will be removed. Why do you think that, and why are titles not useful?

A Because we're just ego-driven humans, right? We just want to build empires. We just want, everybody's obsessed. I mean, how many, how many young people I've hired, right, did they pull me aside and they said, Liz, can I get a shot at being a VP at your company? Like, you know, early days. I'm like, you just graduated college. Back off. You know what I mean? And so the thing about it is like, um, we just obsess with all that stuff, right? And so I'm looking for people that don't really care about that, right? We have to change the way we, we reward the team, right? Whether it's going to be profit sharing, revenue sharing, right? Whether it's going to be more equity, just higher salaries, right? These are the things that I'm thinking about constantly, right? If I'm going to have a hundred people, billion dollars in revenue, right? How am I going to compensate them? How am I going to retain them or not? They can't handle the first, you know, maybe they burn out after two years, then take a break. Here, take your equity. It's gonna be worth billions, you know, millions, alright, maybe billions. And so we go and we say, and then go start something else, right?

AI assessment note: “Because we're just ego-driven humans, right? We just want to build empires.”

Q I'm gonna, I need to hit my numbers, and my, this VC is telling me that I need this, and I need to hit the quarter, So like, they're good enough, but are they perfect? What do you say to them in that position?

A I'm saying I've been there. I hear you. I feel you. I've done that mistake, right? Don't do it. It is not worth it. And then I tell them, You know, I invest, right, and everything. And then, you know, founders come to me for advice, and I tell them, don't do it. That's the wrong person. And then when I hear my, I hate giving advice, right, because I don't even, don't anyone listen to this. Whatever I'm saying, don't listen to it, right, but it's like, they're like, I tell them, don't hire that person. And they're like, no, no, but I need to hire this person. And so I just see people living this lie, right, that they're like, convince themselves they're gonna still do it. And then they hire this person, and they keep them for two years, You know, people that I let go, right, people that I made a mistake on, and then they go, someone else takes them, and they just, the whole, the whole industry just keeps taking these people over and over, and I'm like.

AI assessment note: “I'm saying I've been there. I hear you. I feel you. I've done that mistake”