The Exchanges

Q Now I would love to start. I heard that you worked in a series of restaurants to finance your education in the early days. Can you just talk to me about that? Where was it? How old were you? What did you learn from those early days?

A I was 17. I was lovestruck. I came to United States to chase a girl and I had no place to live. Well, that, that's the gist of it. So I went to a restaurant to beg for a job, and I succeeded, and I washed the dishes, and the bus tables, and I weighed down the tables, but I wasn't very good at it because my English was terrible. I persisted, and I continued to climb the ladder to become an assistant manager. So that was my career. It was a pretty good one. It was in Santa Ana, and I got shot at. But that trained me to be tough and resilient. But that was one of the early experience or experiences that I had.

AI assessment note: “It was in Santa Ana, and I got shot at.”

Q actually identifying user trends, identifying what they love, listening to customers. You know, one of the biggest kind of, uh, pillars of the success that you've had is kind of this element of real-time retail, spotting, Trends that consumers love, and then being able to move fast on it. How does real-time retail work specifically for you? How do you spot trends so efficiently, and what does that look like?

A As you search, as you discover and reflect yourself, that you leave a trail of color mutations and style preferences, and most of the styles are No more, no less than all the mutations of such in different times. If you can re-imagine the supply chain now is as a mass industrialized production factories. Uh, if you imagine the factories are all networked, small, medium sized, and if you can actually receive signals from the customers real time connecting with the factory software platforms, if you do that, If you're connecting those things, and when you have a 102 hundred pieces of garments with hundreds of millions of active customers worldwide, and then you test it, and then you started to see demand signals surge, and then you started to network the factories to produce similar things, and then once you see the weakening signal, you shut them down. So that's how you control your inventories to such a A degree of significantly less unsolved inventory.

AI assessment note: “receive signals from the customers real time connecting with the factory software platforms”

Q actually identifying user trends, identifying what they love, listening to customers. You know, one of the biggest kind of, uh, pillars of the success that you've had is kind of this element of real-time retail, spotting, Trends that consumers love, and then being able to move fast on it. How does real-time retail work specifically for you? How do you spot trends so efficiently, and what does that look like?

A As you search, as you discover and reflect yourself, that you leave a trail of color mutations and style preferences, and most of the styles are No more, no less than all the mutations of such in different times. If you can re-imagine the supply chain now is as a mass industrialized production factories. Uh, if you imagine the factories are all networked, small, medium sized, and if you can actually receive signals from the customers real time connecting with the factory software platforms, if you do that, If you're connecting those things, and when you have a 102 hundred pieces of garments with hundreds of millions of active customers worldwide, and then you test it, and then you started to see demand signals surge, and then you started to network the factories to produce similar things, and then once you see the weakening signal, you shut them down. So that's how you control your inventories to such a A degree of significantly less unsolved inventory.

AI assessment note: “receive signals from the customers real time connecting with the factory software platforms”

Q customer wants that? Sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt you, but I'm just, it's such an individual expression of someone that they go to a bachelor party and they want to dress like, I don't know, whatever they want to dress like, but it's almost one and done. And actually, we are so individually expressive that we actually change so quickly that actually, what if the consumer wants fast fashion?

A The Harris poll that we commissioned recently, the UK and the US, came back exactly that. You know, our customers wear our products longer and more often than others, other brands. Ok, so there's something there, ah, that we should dig in, ah, because they believe that's their style. And, and, you know, for example, I, I, before I came over here, I was in the office of, ah, of JD Sports. Ah, his assistant was there. Or his, uh, chief of staff was there. And, and she said she's a, she's a big fan of ours. I said, what is the most important thing? Why is that? Why do you like us? You know, I always find the style I love on your site. They always have the same answer. It's their choice, ok? When you're selling choice, it's powerful. Because at the end of the day, it's the customer who choose you, ok? They have all the choices around the world. They choose you because you have their choice.

AI assessment note: “our customers wear our products longer and more often than others”

Q customer wants that? Sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt you, but I'm just, it's such an individual expression of someone that they go to a bachelor party and they want to dress like, I don't know, whatever they want to dress like, but it's almost one and done. And actually, we are so individually expressive that we actually change so quickly that actually, what if the consumer wants fast fashion?

A The Harris poll that we commissioned recently, the UK and the US, came back exactly that. You know, our customers wear our products longer and more often than others, other brands. Ok, so there's something there, ah, that we should dig in, ah, because they believe that's their style. And, and, you know, for example, I, I, before I came over here, I was in the office of, ah, of JD Sports. Ah, his assistant was there. Or his, uh, chief of staff was there. And, and she said she's a, she's a big fan of ours. I said, what is the most important thing? Why is that? Why do you like us? You know, I always find the style I love on your site. They always have the same answer. It's their choice, ok? When you're selling choice, it's powerful. Because at the end of the day, it's the customer who choose you, ok? They have all the choices around the world. They choose you because you have their choice.

AI assessment note: “our customers wear our products longer and more often than others”

Q Do you mind if the summary is made that people choose you because of price? You are very, very affordable for a wide range of people, which is fantastic. Is that okay with you when you hear that, that the primary reason that people choose you and your apparel is because of price, price king?

A You know, there are many reasons people I like to buy things from a retailer. Uh, it could be somebody selling dreams, uh, and that's a good thing. I like to live in my dreams, so I buy things from a dream factory. Uh, some people are selling for very low prices, uh, and sometimes I see if the price is low enough and I like to try, uh, without really thinking through. We like to think our brand is selling for choices. So if, if it is the choice you're making, ah, and we actually match that choice, then you'll love it. Ah, so the ultimate is bespoke, but bespoke is for very, very, very well-to-do people. Ah, it's not for everybody. So we do approximate. When you approximate, you actually can get to very significant part of what people really wanted at the lowest price possible. So, we're talking about here, the availability is your choice, accessibility is the online part, and then affordability is because it's on demand, and you listen to customers, it's a virtual cycle coming back to give you the affordability. So, they're connected, all these three A's.

AI assessment note: “We like to think our brand is selling for choices.”

Q United States. How do we think about global expansion? And when you review the last three years, how do you think you've done?

A We don't think ourselves as a globalized company. We think ourselves as a globalized company with emphasis on the localizing. It's global local. Global local is the, as far as I can see, the trend. People are looking more inward as a trend, whether we like it or not. Um, but you still, you know, if you want your business to thrive on a global scale, you have to become a local community business. So, in England, or in Great Britain, you want to be a, a UK company. You want to be part of the fabric. You want it to be everything As part of the community. You don't want to be a, some company parachuting in just making money. That's not, that's not the kind of a trend anymore.

AI assessment note: “We think ourselves as a globalized company with emphasis on the localizing.”

Q United States. How do we think about global expansion? And when you review the last three years, how do you think you've done?

A We don't think ourselves as a globalized company. We think ourselves as a globalized company with emphasis on the localizing. It's global local. Global local is the, as far as I can see, the trend. People are looking more inward as a trend, whether we like it or not. Um, but you still, you know, if you want your business to thrive on a global scale, you have to become a local community business. So, in England, or in Great Britain, you want to be a, a UK company. You want to be part of the fabric. You want it to be everything As part of the community. You don't want to be a, some company parachuting in just making money. That's not, that's not the kind of a trend anymore.

AI assessment note: “We think ourselves as a globalized company with emphasis on the localizing.”

Q you're an incredibly wise person, Donald, and they would be foolish of me to not take advantage of your wisdom in, in another way, which is, you've mentioned the importance of the pick being your wife. Um, you've been married for many, many years very happily. When you look back on the marriage, what are some of your biggest lessons on what it takes to have a very happy marriage?

A That's pretty easy for me. You know, if you're a young person, Person, you have the L is a different L, and then later on, you know, obviously any kind of relationship will have challenges, and you have to overcome it with love, right? So you have to be powered by love, you know, that's a different L. But truthfully, everything about a successful marriage as an outcome, always have luck, ok? So, we have eight billion species. It's, it, You know, how do you have two people to be the best, ah, kind of match? It is not scientific. If you're a, a, a science-based person, you say that's, that's not really, you know, very, ah, genuine. But it is genuine, because if you are, actually have the best pair, that means there's some luck involved. And then you powder with love, and then in the very beginning, you're attracted by a certain type of L.

AI assessment note: “everything about a successful marriage as an outcome, always have luck, ok?”

Q you're an incredibly wise person, Donald, and they would be foolish of me to not take advantage of your wisdom in, in another way, which is, you've mentioned the importance of the pick being your wife. Um, you've been married for many, many years very happily. When you look back on the marriage, what are some of your biggest lessons on what it takes to have a very happy marriage?

A That's pretty easy for me. You know, if you're a young person, Person, you have the L is a different L, and then later on, you know, obviously any kind of relationship will have challenges, and you have to overcome it with love, right? So you have to be powered by love, you know, that's a different L. But truthfully, everything about a successful marriage as an outcome, always have luck, ok? So, we have eight billion species. It's, it, You know, how do you have two people to be the best, ah, kind of match? It is not scientific. If you're a, a, a science-based person, you say that's, that's not really, you know, very, ah, genuine. But it is genuine, because if you are, actually have the best pair, that means there's some luck involved. And then you powder with love, and then in the very beginning, you're attracted by a certain type of L.

AI assessment note: “everything about a successful marriage as an outcome, always have luck”

Q How did Shein come to be? That, you know, it's, when we look at the last few years for you, it's been incredible, but it's also a different role. I mean, we had a couple of years also in media world. It's a different role. How did that come to be?

A Everything, almost everything I have done, um, in the capitalistic world in America, um, there's a clear distinction between doing good and doing well. Um, and, and I kind of believe that you have to do well enough, and then you started to do good. Do, do not mix the two, too early and too, um, mixed up. And if you look at a Shin's business model, Yes. Uh, we try to do well, but the definition doing well, you must do good first. Let me explain to you what I mean by that. In our business, um, everybody says that the customers are the most important thing, but what do you really do with that philosophy? It's very different. Uh, retail business, It's such a business that, ah, is connected with the customers the most, but yet, very few of us actually listen to what customers want, and, and we have observed that, that there is a significant wholesale change of a customer philosophy or customer, um, psychology. Ah, the kids, not a kid, well, you're not a kid, but the, the people in your generation or younger, they really have a lot more self-confidence They really wanted to wear their expression on their sleeves. Uh, you know, whatever the form it is, whatever belief it is, they are not afraid of expressing it. And they're very good at that. So the fashion business today is becoming very diverse. Well, the fashion statement itself is becoming very diversified. It's no longer just lis…

AI assessment note: “And if you look at a Shin's business model, Yes. Uh, we try”

Q Do you mind if the summary is made that people choose you because of price? You are very, very affordable for a wide range of people, which is fantastic. Is that okay with you when you hear that, that the primary reason that people choose you and your apparel is because of price, price king?

A You know, there are many reasons people I like to buy things from a retailer. Uh, it could be somebody selling dreams, uh, and that's a good thing. I like to live in my dreams, so I buy things from a dream factory. Uh, some people are selling for very low prices, uh, and sometimes I see if the price is low enough and I like to try, uh, without really thinking through. We like to think our brand is selling for choices. So if, if it is the choice you're making, ah, and we actually match that choice, then you'll love it. Ah, so the ultimate is bespoke, but bespoke is for very, very, very well-to-do people. Ah, it's not for everybody. So we do approximate. When you approximate, you actually can get to very significant part of what people really wanted at the lowest price possible. So, we're talking about here, the availability is your choice, accessibility is the online part, and then affordability is because it's on demand, and you listen to customers, it's a virtual cycle coming back to give you the affordability. So, they're connected, all these three A's.

AI assessment note: “We like to think our brand is selling for choices.”

Q What's the biggest thing that's broken for the model? A lesson that you've had from something that didn't work? Oh, we actually didn't anticipate this. Oh, this thing didn't go as planned.

A As far as the customers are concerned, uh, sometimes that, you know, we, we kind of follow the, uh, you call it follow the money. You know, we follow the customer. You know, we had, ah, younger generation Gen Z as our main customers. Ah, they grew up, and then they get married, and now we have kids. They have houses, and now we have pets. Ah, and we have home goods, arts and crafts, and we have many. So we follow the trajectory of our customers. And sometimes we become, you know, the, the business itself is the customer always get to choose. They can, you know, they, they have all the choices in the world, all these online companies, all the physical retail, you know, they choose us. There's a reason they do, and they also wanted to continue to come back to do more with us, but we can't possibly make everything we sell, right? So these apparel things, we do make everything, not everything, most of the things we sell. But if it's a refrigerator, if it's a whole bunch of other things and electronics, so we're kind of getting into that.

AI assessment note: “we follow the trajectory of our customers. And sometimes we become”

Q How did Shein come to be? That, you know, it's, when we look at the last few years for you, it's been incredible, but it's also a different role. I mean, we had a couple of years also in media world. It's a different role. How did that come to be?

A Everything, almost everything I have done, um, in the capitalistic world in America, um, there's a clear distinction between doing good and doing well. Um, and, and I kind of believe that you have to do well enough, and then you started to do good. Do, do not mix the two, too early and too, um, mixed up. And if you look at a Shin's business model, Yes. Uh, we try to do well, but the definition doing well, you must do good first. Let me explain to you what I mean by that. In our business, um, everybody says that the customers are the most important thing, but what do you really do with that philosophy? It's very different. Uh, retail business, It's such a business that, ah, is connected with the customers the most, but yet, very few of us actually listen to what customers want, and, and we have observed that, that there is a significant wholesale change of a customer philosophy or customer, um, psychology. Ah, the kids, not a kid, well, you're not a kid, but the, the people in your generation or younger, they really have a lot more self-confidence They really wanted to wear their expression on their sleeves. Uh, you know, whatever the form it is, whatever belief it is, they are not afraid of expressing it. And they're very good at that. So the fashion business today is becoming very diverse. Well, the fashion statement itself is becoming very diversified. It's no longer just lis…

AI assessment note: “if you look at a Shin's business model, Yes. Uh, we try to do well”

Q Do you not think a chip on your shoulder is a good thing? In, in our business in venture, we say, you know, chips on shoulders put chips in pockets, and a lot of VCs say they want the founder with the chip on the shoulder, the vengeance to build something.

A Depending on what job you want. As a venture capitalist, yes. Or as an entrepreneur, perhaps. But if you are applying for an engineer's job, um, you know, you want a job for at the time. I was lucky enough to have a mentor who taught me everything. And who I can actually go back to saying, how should I look at this? What should I do? And I, I was mentored, not only one, but a couple of them told me what to do, and shared life experiences, and the collaboration, you know, the, ah, the try and error, and if I made mistake, and I was forgiven, and continue to be on that journey to do better, so taught me how to, Make constant improvement every single time, ah, when you look back, your last minute, last day, last hour. So these are lifelong lessons, and, and I was taught about how you are going to figure out some ways to know that every day is a good day, and When you are looking at your daily life, you complain about how boring and mundane it is, but that's how life is. Not every day is a home run day. Not every day is exciting. Most of the days are kind of boring, but if we are, if we believe in competitive world, every day, you know, everybody's day is similar. You know, like, you know, my, um, my mentor, uh, was a champion in Well, is a world champion in bridge, and this is, you know, he's the smartest guy in the world in my dictionary, right? So all of the bridge hands are pla…

AI assessment note: “Depending on what job you want. As a venture capitalist, yes. Or as an entrepreneur”

Q Do you not think a chip on your shoulder is a good thing? In, in our business in venture, we say, you know, chips on shoulders put chips in pockets, and a lot of VCs say they want the founder with the chip on the shoulder, the vengeance to build something.

A Depending on what job you want. As a venture capitalist, yes. Or as an entrepreneur, perhaps. But if you are applying for an engineer's job, um, you know, you want a job for at the time. I was lucky enough to have a mentor who taught me everything. And who I can actually go back to saying, how should I look at this? What should I do? And I, I was mentored, not only one, but a couple of them told me what to do, and shared life experiences, and the collaboration, you know, the, ah, the try and error, and if I made mistake, and I was forgiven, and continue to be on that journey to do better, so taught me how to, Make constant improvement every single time, ah, when you look back, your last minute, last day, last hour. So these are lifelong lessons, and, and I was taught about how you are going to figure out some ways to know that every day is a good day, and When you are looking at your daily life, you complain about how boring and mundane it is, but that's how life is. Not every day is a home run day. Not every day is exciting. Most of the days are kind of boring, but if we are, if we believe in competitive world, every day, you know, everybody's day is similar. You know, like, you know, my, um, my mentor, uh, was a champion in Well, is a world champion in bridge, and this is, you know, he's the smartest guy in the world in my dictionary, right? So all of the bridge hands are pla…

AI assessment note: “Depending on what job you want. As a venture capitalist, yes. Or as an entrepreneur”

Q What's the biggest thing that's broken for the model? A lesson that you've had from something that didn't work? Oh, we actually didn't anticipate this. Oh, this thing didn't go as planned.

A As far as the customers are concerned, uh, sometimes that, you know, we, we kind of follow the, uh, you call it follow the money. You know, we follow the customer. You know, we had, ah, younger generation Gen Z as our main customers. Ah, they grew up, and then they get married, and now we have kids. They have houses, and now we have pets. Ah, and we have home goods, arts and crafts, and we have many. So we follow the trajectory of our customers. And sometimes we become, you know, the, the business itself is the customer always get to choose. They can, you know, they, they have all the choices in the world, all these online companies, all the physical retail, you know, they choose us. There's a reason they do, and they also wanted to continue to come back to do more with us, but we can't possibly make everything we sell, right? So these apparel things, we do make everything, not everything, most of the things we sell. But if it's a refrigerator, if it's a whole bunch of other things and electronics, so we're kind of getting into that.

AI assessment note: “we follow the trajectory of our customers”

Q think about tariffs and the ability to go beneath certain price points and what that means for where you're able to pay? And so I, I think there was a recent thing which was because of the price points of, you know, your products, they're under a certain point, which means you don't have to pay tariffs. How much of your success is on going underneath tariffs to avoid that?

A You know, let's take a look at why people want to reform. Everybody wanted to have a, uh, level the playing field because that helps, uh, fair competition. Fair competition is benefiting the consumer. You want to consumers to make sure that continue to receive things on the timely manner at the same time to enjoy their trendy clothes. So all these things, if you consider them all together, that comes to perhaps a thoughtful way to elevate the disclosure. A thoughtful way to actually not to slow down, but speeding up the process, and perhaps certain things ought to be paying taxes, to be fair, like TSA Pre. You know, whoever willing to share all the data, let's go, fast. People don't want to share data, go waiting line. So things like that can be resolved, if we can resolve in the right way. I think it helps the consumer protecting that business, also protecting, ah, the, ah, Uh, that, that, that not only consumer, also business and the merchants.

AI assessment note: “let's take a look at why people want to reform.”

Q think about tariffs and the ability to go beneath certain price points and what that means for where you're able to pay? And so I, I think there was a recent thing which was because of the price points of, you know, your products, they're under a certain point, which means you don't have to pay tariffs. How much of your success is on going underneath tariffs to avoid that?

A You know, let's take a look at why people want to reform. Everybody wanted to have a, uh, level the playing field because that helps, uh, fair competition. Fair competition is benefiting the consumer. You want to consumers to make sure that continue to receive things on the timely manner at the same time to enjoy their trendy clothes. So all these things, if you consider them all together, that comes to perhaps a thoughtful way to elevate the disclosure. A thoughtful way to actually not to slow down, but speeding up the process, and perhaps certain things ought to be paying taxes, to be fair, like TSA Pre. You know, whoever willing to share all the data, let's go, fast. People don't want to share data, go waiting line. So things like that can be resolved, if we can resolve in the right way. I think it helps the consumer protecting that business, also protecting, ah, the, ah, Uh, that, that, that not only consumer, also business and the merchants.

AI assessment note: “let's take a look at why people want to reform.”