The Exchanges

Q And then what type of role does a studio like Science play in Dollar Shave's success? Again, Christian.

A I think they were extremely helpful early on. I don't know how to generalize about studios, but in the case of both Peter Pham and Mike Jones, they were an amazing yin and yang. You know, you have Peter, who's this incredible networker and biz dev, sort of partner-oriented person. Who can I introduce you to? How can I help connect you? And you have Mike Jones, who's Extremely focused on company strategy, pricing, value proposition. Uh, they were very, very helpful early on. They, I mean, I can tell you that they brought in, even just before I made my investment, a COO named Kevin Datu. And Kevin was in many ways a super overqualified COO at the time. Like, you wouldn't see a ten-person company hire a COO in most cases. But this was a complex logistical operating company that had a lot of moving parts to deal with. He was so crucial, and still is, to their success, and that came from Mike Johnson and Peter Pham. So I think they were essential.

AI assessment note: “I think they were extremely helpful early on.”

Q So was it just increased status and increased customer base that allowed you to get the macro interested and get TCV on board?

A I think one, yeah, just the massive success and continued growth. So we went from twenty million in year two to sixty million in revenue in year three. We had expanding margins, Um, which I think demonstrates that this is not a low margin e-commerce business, but this really was a, uh, a consumer products company. And finally, we had launched a number of different products, not just razors and razor blades, but demonstrated that we're a multi-product men's grooming company that can acquire a customer for things like razors and razor blades, but can then sell them other things, which expands the lifetime value of the customer and makes for a great arbitrage between the price you paid to acquire them, but what they're ultimately worth. So I think we just had more proof points around the core business thesis. And, uh, and then the capital really becomes expansion capital, right? It's really like, okay, well, there's not a huge amount of risk. It doesn't feel like the company can go to zero. The question now is, is truly how big can it get? And then you ask questions about what's the competition doing. And, you know, Gillette had not still to this day has not reacted in a, in a competent way that put any pressure on Dollar Shave Club. Um, and also Amazon had not It still has not, you know, entered this market meaningfully. So I think that probably gave new investors confidence.

AI assessment note: “yeah, just the massive success and continued growth. So we went from twenty million”

Q So was it just increased status and increased customer base that allowed you to get the macro interested and get TCV on board?

A I think one, yeah, just the massive success and continued growth. So we went from twenty million in year two to sixty million in revenue in year three. We had expanding margins, Um, which I think demonstrates that this is not a low margin e-commerce business, but this really was a, uh, a consumer products company. And finally, we had launched a number of different products, not just razors and razor blades, but demonstrated that we're a multi-product men's grooming company that can acquire a customer for things like razors and razor blades, but can then sell them other things, which expands the lifetime value of the customer and makes for a great arbitrage between the price you paid to acquire them, but what they're ultimately worth. So I think we just had more proof points around the core business thesis. And, uh, and then the capital really becomes expansion capital, right? It's really like, okay, well, there's not a huge amount of risk. It doesn't feel like the company can go to zero. The question now is, is truly how big can it get? And then you ask questions about what's the competition doing. And, you know, Gillette had not still to this day has not reacted in a, in a competent way that put any pressure on Dollar Shave Club. Um, and also Amazon had not It still has not, you know, entered this market meaningfully. So I think that probably gave new investors confidence.

AI assessment note: “So we went from twenty million in year two to sixty million in revenue”

Q What are, what other areas of consumer products are really interesting to you? We said about some sectors being, uh, killed by Amazon potentially, uh, in their early phases. So, so what other areas excite you in the way that they're, they're not in that segment?

A Well, we had a great experience with Nest, where we learned from an incredible team that you can take a very popular, very large consumer products category, in their case, thermostats, and then, you know, smoke detectors. That effectively have not been innovated on in 50 years, and you could not just innovate and advance the state of the art, but you could actually create a premium product and own sort of the premium segment, build and own a premium segment that didn't exist before. That was a very interesting lesson for us, and in addition, the Nest experience taught us that you could basically put sensors in your devices that you sell to consumers that gather data, and then your products, you can get better over time, By processing the data, using machine learning. So we really like that playbook, uh, and we are making investments in, in, in that sort of thematic way. Um, one example we're really interested in is the automobile space. There's going to be massive disruption to the legacy automotive manufacturers for a number of reasons. One is electrification. There's going to be a shift away from oil, you know, internal combustion engine cars to electric cars. Cars are going to drive themselves, and autonomous vehicles need Really good software and lots of data. Two things that income and car companies aren't very good at. We think cars will be sold direct to consumer the way…

AI assessment note: “One example we're really interested in is the automobile space.”

Q I'd love to, I'd love to discuss actually then the, the exit for Dollar Shave. So Dollar Shave was growing really nicely, uh, roughly breakeven. Was now the right time to sell? And, and how did that conversation play out?

A Michael, from the beginning, and I think I showed, uh, slide three of his Series A pitch deck, was going for, like, domination of this category. He wants, his dream is to be a multi-billion dollar in revenue. Men's lifestyle grooming brand, you know, operating in scores of countries. That's going to require a lot of capital. Uh, you know, marketing is expensive. Setting up distribution in all these countries is expensive. And so, we We want, our job as a board is to really help fulfill Michael's vision, the CEO's vision. His dream was to get super big. Uh, we were likely to become a public company really as a financing opportunity to add, you know, many more hundreds of millions of dollars to the company so we could expand internationally into more products and into more territories. Unilever offers that right now. You know, as an acquirer, they are, they operate in every country. They, you know, have massive distribution and marketing resources. They've got great production ability, May basically offer that to the companies they acquire. In fact, it's really brilliant at what they do. They, they buy a company and they say, congratulations, you just acquired Unilever. What they mean by that is, you know, you will continue to remain an independent company and operating, but you now have all of the resources of Unilever at your disposal. Which ones of them would you like and will…

AI assessment note: “we can get so much bigger, so much more quickly by working with these guys”

Q And one of your investments was Dollar Shave Club, so I want to dive straight into that and discuss the investment. So dollar shave raised when capital for subscription businesses was, was slightly out of favor, um, particularly subscription commerce businesses. So what got you excited and what really made you make the investment?

A Sure. Well, first I, I have run two different subscription services in my life as an entrepreneur. The most recent was e-music. You learn a bunch of things about subscription services when you run them. Uh, they are generally very math based. That is, they have a whole bunch of inputs and outputs that are eminently predictable. And govern their likelihood for success. The key metric in all SaaS or subscription businesses is churn rate. The lower the churn rate, the easier it is for the company to grow. And over the course of running a few different subscription businesses, I came to believe that the only way to build really big subscription businesses, Netflix or internet, uh, internet access companies, um, is to have very large market demand. So, uh, you have to sell into very large markets as opposed to niches. Uh, like magazines, which are generally niche oriented and you need to have really low churn rate. That is the customers are very loyal and will stay around a super long time. When I saw the Dollar Shave Club launch video, just like everyone else did on, on their launch day in March of, I was blown away by the comedy. I thought the marketing was fantastic. I loved the value proposition, but what intrigued me the most was, Hey, this is a huge market where churn is likely to be really low. So, uh, I asked, um, Peter Pham, who was at science and was a early seed investor …

AI assessment note: “what intrigued me the most was, Hey, this is a huge market where churn”

Q And I'd love to hear your thoughts then on, on the future of the music industry as a whole. With iTunes moving into iTunes music, and then Spotify, who do you think is going to win this battle then?

A Yeah, I think as a consumer, the last five years have been the best time to be involved in music, because there's an infinite number of ways to hear and discover new music, uh, and now we can connect socially online and discuss it, so it's a great time, uh, to have all these different choices of platforms. I think, unfortunately, it's not a good time To be a, um, independent provider of digital music, you know, to be a music service, because as I said, they're largely commoditized. Um, almost no one can make money in them. None of them are profitable. So the, you know, the business models are sort of cursed from the beginning. And the only companies that are, are likely to succeed are the ones who really don't care whether they make any money from music like Apple and Google and Amazon. Uh, so I think iTunes is likely to be successful. What does that mean? I think they'll have, Um, I think there'll be a sustainable long-term, uh, digital music streaming service, but I, I don't think, um, they'll get much more than, you know, I'm thinking sort of 30 to fifty million paying subscribers over the next two years, so I think my prediction is that they'll fall short of their goal of a hundred million paid users, um, but it'll be a service that exists.

AI assessment note: “the only companies that are, are likely to succeed are the ones who really don't care”

Q As an investor, do you look at a proposition and say, if Amazon did subscription men's grooming, Dollar Shave would be ruined when it was in its seed in Series A? Or do you, do you not approach it with that kind of incumbency mindset?

A In consumer products, we have a, an investment thesis about consumer products. It has a number of different attributes that we need to see in order to get excited about a company. Dollar Shave had the overwhelming majority of those attributes. So did Nest. So did a company we invested in called Pearl. They're all different companies, but tick the boxes of our, uh, investment thesis in consumer products. One of the areas of that investment thesis is will Amazon Amazon you by effectively commoditizing the category by, by, by launching an Amazon basics or, you know, an Amazon branded commodity version. At extremely low price, at extremely high convenience. For a bunch of reasons I won't go into, we concluded that Amazon would not be able to do that in this category. They are able to do it in a whole bunch of other ones, which is something that often keeps us out of a lot of other categories. But, um, it was a concern. Other investors had that concern too, but if you dug in, you could learn that that was highly unlikely for a number of reasons.

AI assessment note: “we concluded that Amazon would not be able to do that in this category”

Q And one of your investments was Dollar Shave Club, so I want to dive straight into that and discuss the investment. So dollar shave raised when capital for subscription businesses was, was slightly out of favor, um, particularly subscription commerce businesses. So what got you excited and what really made you make the investment?

A Sure. Well, first I, I have run two different subscription services in my life as an entrepreneur. The most recent was e-music. You learn a bunch of things about subscription services when you run them. Uh, they are generally very math based. That is, they have a whole bunch of inputs and outputs that are eminently predictable. And govern their likelihood for success. The key metric in all SaaS or subscription businesses is churn rate. The lower the churn rate, the easier it is for the company to grow. And over the course of running a few different subscription businesses, I came to believe that the only way to build really big subscription businesses, Netflix or internet, uh, internet access companies, um, is to have very large market demand. So, uh, you have to sell into very large markets as opposed to niches. Uh, like magazines, which are generally niche oriented and you need to have really low churn rate. That is the customers are very loyal and will stay around a super long time. When I saw the Dollar Shave Club launch video, just like everyone else did on, on their launch day in March of, I was blown away by the comedy. I thought the marketing was fantastic. I loved the value proposition, but what intrigued me the most was, Hey, this is a huge market where churn is likely to be really low. So, uh, I asked, um, Peter Pham, who was at science and was a early seed investor …

AI assessment note: “what intrigued me the most was, Hey, this is a huge market where churn is likely to be really low.”

Q I'd love to, I'd love to discuss actually then the, the exit for Dollar Shave. So Dollar Shave was growing really nicely, uh, roughly breakeven. Was now the right time to sell? And, and how did that conversation play out?

A Michael, from the beginning, and I think I showed, uh, slide three of his Series A pitch deck, was going for, like, domination of this category. He wants, his dream is to be a multi-billion dollar in revenue. Men's lifestyle grooming brand, you know, operating in scores of countries. That's going to require a lot of capital. Uh, you know, marketing is expensive. Setting up distribution in all these countries is expensive. And so, we We want, our job as a board is to really help fulfill Michael's vision, the CEO's vision. His dream was to get super big. Uh, we were likely to become a public company really as a financing opportunity to add, you know, many more hundreds of millions of dollars to the company so we could expand internationally into more products and into more territories. Unilever offers that right now. You know, as an acquirer, they are, they operate in every country. They, you know, have massive distribution and marketing resources. They've got great production ability, May basically offer that to the companies they acquire. In fact, it's really brilliant at what they do. They, they buy a company and they say, congratulations, you just acquired Unilever. What they mean by that is, you know, you will continue to remain an independent company and operating, but you now have all of the resources of Unilever at your disposal. Which ones of them would you like and will…

AI assessment note: “we can get so much bigger, so much more quickly by working with these guys”

Q As an investor, do you look at a proposition and say, if Amazon did subscription men's grooming, Dollar Shave would be ruined when it was in its seed in Series A? Or do you, do you not approach it with that kind of incumbency mindset?

A In consumer products, we have a, an investment thesis about consumer products. It has a number of different attributes that we need to see in order to get excited about a company. Dollar Shave had the overwhelming majority of those attributes. So did Nest. So did a company we invested in called Pearl. They're all different companies, but tick the boxes of our, uh, investment thesis in consumer products. One of the areas of that investment thesis is will Amazon Amazon you by effectively commoditizing the category by, by, by launching an Amazon basics or, you know, an Amazon branded commodity version. At extremely low price, at extremely high convenience. For a bunch of reasons I won't go into, we concluded that Amazon would not be able to do that in this category. They are able to do it in a whole bunch of other ones, which is something that often keeps us out of a lot of other categories. But, um, it was a concern. Other investors had that concern too, but if you dug in, you could learn that that was highly unlikely for a number of reasons.

AI assessment note: “One of the areas of that investment thesis is will Amazon Amazon you”

Q And how did you find the transition then from entrepreneur of a startup and CEO to being a VC? Was there anything that surprised you on entering the industry?

A I loved it because, um, you know, having done a few startups, the only challenge with startups is that you have to spend a 150% of your time on essentially one market segment. And, uh, you know, I'm intellectually curious and I saw all So many different areas where there's explosion and innovation and disruption, and I really wanted to be involved in more than one sector. And so, uh, being a VC, you get to work with a bunch of superstar entrepreneurs, but each one is going after different markets, and so you get to kind of spread your intellectual curiosity, uh, in, and your, and learn a bunch, uh, in a bunch of different sectors. So I've really enjoyed that transition. The hardest part, though, is Um, appreciating that you're not the one in charge anymore, and that, um, the CEOs that you're backing are the ones who are in charge, and you can give them advice, but ultimately they have to make all of the final decisions, and that's just a transition, I think, and most people, um, leaving CEO land and joining VC land have to make, but once I made that transition, um, it's been nothing but fun.

AI assessment note: “The hardest part, though, is Um, appreciating that you're not the one in charge anymore”

Q And we always hear about, you know, the importance of great entrepreneurs and great teams, but what for you makes a great entrepreneur? What, what sets them apart from the rest?

A Really the ability to bend the world to their will. We call them sort of force of nature CEOs. Look, it's, it's super hard to, uh, to build a large and successful company from scratch. Uh, there's just too many things that can go wrong. Um, and so I think the, the most successful CEOs tend to be people who, um, won't let, uh, won't let distractions and Um, inevitable disappointments stand in their way. They're just relentlessly focused on finding their way to success. And, uh, that's a different type of person than someone who would give up more easily. And so I think the, the best examples of entrepreneurs are people just who have a, a massive passion and a super strong belief that the world needs to be a certain way. And they go and try to build something to make the world that way.

AI assessment note: “Really the ability to bend the world to their will.”

Q And how did you find the transition then from entrepreneur of a startup and CEO to being a VC? Was there anything that surprised you on entering the industry?

A I loved it because, um, you know, having done a few startups, the only challenge with startups is that you have to spend a 150% of your time on essentially one market segment. And, uh, you know, I'm intellectually curious and I saw all So many different areas where there's explosion and innovation and disruption, and I really wanted to be involved in more than one sector. And so, uh, being a VC, you get to work with a bunch of superstar entrepreneurs, but each one is going after different markets, and so you get to kind of spread your intellectual curiosity, uh, in, and your, and learn a bunch, uh, in a bunch of different sectors. So I've really enjoyed that transition. The hardest part, though, is Um, appreciating that you're not the one in charge anymore, and that, um, the CEOs that you're backing are the ones who are in charge, and you can give them advice, but ultimately they have to make all of the final decisions, and that's just a transition, I think, and most people, um, leaving CEO land and joining VC land have to make, but once I made that transition, um, it's been nothing but fun.

AI assessment note: “I loved it because, um, you know, having done a few startups”

Q And I'd love to hear your thoughts then on, on the future of the music industry as a whole. With iTunes moving into iTunes music, and then Spotify, who do you think is going to win this battle then?

A Yeah, I think as a consumer, the last five years have been the best time to be involved in music, because there's an infinite number of ways to hear and discover new music, uh, and now we can connect socially online and discuss it, so it's a great time, uh, to have all these different choices of platforms. I think, unfortunately, it's not a good time To be a, um, independent provider of digital music, you know, to be a music service, because as I said, they're largely commoditized. Um, almost no one can make money in them. None of them are profitable. So the, you know, the business models are sort of cursed from the beginning. And the only companies that are, are likely to succeed are the ones who really don't care whether they make any money from music like Apple and Google and Amazon. Uh, so I think iTunes is likely to be successful. What does that mean? I think they'll have, Um, I think there'll be a sustainable long-term, uh, digital music streaming service, but I, I don't think, um, they'll get much more than, you know, I'm thinking sort of 30 to fifty million paying subscribers over the next two years, so I think my prediction is that they'll fall short of their goal of a hundred million paid users, um, but it'll be a service that exists.

AI assessment note: “the only companies that are, are likely to succeed are the ones who really don't care”

Q And how much of a role do you play in your investments, and how do you hold back, maybe, if you're becoming too involved?

A Well, we try to be as involved as possible, which really try to be as helpful as we can be to CEOs. The Venrock goal usually is to be the CEO's first call when they need some advice or have some, uh, vexing challenge they'd like to try to resolve. And so we are very close with our CEOs and of course we're active board members. So I say we try to help a lot, but, but as I pointed out, we're not the ones who make the final decision. And so I think the best thing we can do is share our own experiences and, And really, what I try to do is help CEOs see around corners. You know, as a founder or CEO, you're massively absorbed in what's going on the next 30, 60, 90 days at your company, but someone's got to be thinking about what's going to happen in the next six or 12 months, and, um, that's something I try to help CEOs with.

AI assessment note: “we try to be as involved as possible, which really try to be as helpful”

Q And we always hear about, you know, the importance of great entrepreneurs and great teams, but what for you makes a great entrepreneur? What, what sets them apart from the rest?

A Really the ability to bend the world to their will. We call them sort of force of nature CEOs. Look, it's, it's super hard to, uh, to build a large and successful company from scratch. Uh, there's just too many things that can go wrong. Um, and so I think the, the most successful CEOs tend to be people who, um, won't let, uh, won't let distractions and Um, inevitable disappointments stand in their way. They're just relentlessly focused on finding their way to success. And, uh, that's a different type of person than someone who would give up more easily. And so I think the, the best examples of entrepreneurs are people just who have a, a massive passion and a super strong belief that the world needs to be a certain way. And they go and try to build something to make the world that way.

AI assessment note: “Really the ability to bend the world to their will.”

Q And we talked a little on disruption. What do you think is the next big area to be disrupted?

A Well, I think there are quite a few, actually. Um, you know, one area that is, we're really only seeing start to be disrupted in the last few years is just traditional brands that, who sold to their customers through indirect sales channels like retailers. Um, um, I'm confident that the only model that will really work in the future, or the model that will work best in the future, are brands that have direct relationship with customers. So I think we're seeing Plenty of legacy consumer brands struggling to move from offline to online, at least from indirect to direct. I think media is in a, you know, a complete fundamental platform shift from an age of scarcity to an age of abundance, where you can't depend on exclusive content as a way for you to build your, your media brand. You have to build platforms on which other people create and share Content. So, I, those are two extraordinarily large industries that are in the early and mid phases of their disruption.

AI assessment note: “one area that is... traditional brands... I think media is in a”

Q And, and talking of the transaction itself and moving it to, to the macro, do you think there'll be other big e-commerce exits to come potentially maybe as a result or just, uh, in the future? Are we, are we bullish on consumer exits in e-commerce?

A So I think the, you know, the key investment Um, thesis for us in this category of consumer products is that because of the splintering of attention away from legacy media to digital media and social streams, you know, where we're, there's no dominant, um, single source of media anymore. And due to the declining foot traffic to physical stores and the massive increase in, in Amazon and online buying, you can't be a consumer products company and not be direct to consumer. Like, you have to know your customers. You have to sell directly to them. You may sell through other folks, too, but you have to offer a direct channel to purchase, and you need to have direct conversations with your customers. You can't let retailers be your proxy anymore. Otherwise, you're just not relevant on social media. No one wants to talk to you because they don't really know who you are. Because of that, you look around the landscape in so many consumer products categories, not just CPG, but even automobiles. Almost all of these Hundred-year-old companies do not have any capability to sell direct, and when they try, they aren't very successful. Look at Gillette and their incredibly originally named Gillette Shave Club. Um, you know, not very successful. So I think there is pressure now on all of the large consumer products companies to become DTC, and you can either buy or build, or both. And so, yes, …

AI assessment note: “And so, yes, I think we will see more transactions as a way to import knowledge”

Q And, and talking of the transaction itself and moving it to, to the macro, do you think there'll be other big e-commerce exits to come potentially maybe as a result or just, uh, in the future? Are we, are we bullish on consumer exits in e-commerce?

A So I think the, you know, the key investment Um, thesis for us in this category of consumer products is that because of the splintering of attention away from legacy media to digital media and social streams, you know, where we're, there's no dominant, um, single source of media anymore. And due to the declining foot traffic to physical stores and the massive increase in, in Amazon and online buying, you can't be a consumer products company and not be direct to consumer. Like, you have to know your customers. You have to sell directly to them. You may sell through other folks, too, but you have to offer a direct channel to purchase, and you need to have direct conversations with your customers. You can't let retailers be your proxy anymore. Otherwise, you're just not relevant on social media. No one wants to talk to you because they don't really know who you are. Because of that, you look around the landscape in so many consumer products categories, not just CPG, but even automobiles. Almost all of these Hundred-year-old companies do not have any capability to sell direct, and when they try, they aren't very successful. Look at Gillette and their incredibly originally named Gillette Shave Club. Um, you know, not very successful. So I think there is pressure now on all of the large consumer products companies to become DTC, and you can either buy or build, or both. And so, yes, …

AI assessment note: “yes, I think we will see more transactions as a way to import knowledge”

Q dollar shaves is Dollar Shave's brand, and you mentioned Michael Dubin's, uh, brilliant marketing strategies, uh, and we all know about the Dollar Shave Club initial video, which was brilliant, uh, but what were some of the other things that they did right along the way in the marketing that allowed them to make the significant leaps in revenue that you mentioned from B to C and A to B?

A So I think Michael really understands what makes a compelling story that consumers respond to, He's a storyteller, right? I mean, he was, he literally has comedic, uh, experience and, um, and built viral videos for companies before. So he sort of understands how you tell a story. I think he really understands his customer base. He's great. He kind of knows what guys, the way guys think. He believes you have to, you need, the guys are generally smart and want to do the smart thing. And, you know, paying three X for the same product is not a smart thing, right? So, uh, I think that he's He is a brilliant marketer, yes, for sure, but it's largely because of his great intuition about the way guys think and the way to reach them through humor. The big video that everyone's seen twenty-three million times, that's what he's most well-known for, but if you, if you watch many, many, many more videos that he's produced over the years, they're just as hysterical, and they tell different parts of the story, like, why is there so much security around, you know, they build these razor fortresses, In drug stores to almost prevent you from buying razor blades. Why should you tolerate that? You know, why should all of your, uh, dollars go to, um, you know, to support Roger Federer who doesn't need your money? So I, I think he really felt, found these unique ways to, to point out some of the abs…

AI assessment note: “if you watch many, many, many more videos that he's produced over the years”

Q And how much of a role do you play in your investments, and how do you hold back, maybe, if you're becoming too involved?

A Well, we try to be as involved as possible, which really try to be as helpful as we can be to CEOs. The Venrock goal usually is to be the CEO's first call when they need some advice or have some, uh, vexing challenge they'd like to try to resolve. And so we are very close with our CEOs and of course we're active board members. So I say we try to help a lot, but, but as I pointed out, we're not the ones who make the final decision. And so I think the best thing we can do is share our own experiences and, And really, what I try to do is help CEOs see around corners. You know, as a founder or CEO, you're massively absorbed in what's going on the next 30, 60, 90 days at your company, but someone's got to be thinking about what's going to happen in the next six or 12 months, and, um, that's something I try to help CEOs with.

AI assessment note: “we're not the ones who make the final decision. And so I think the best”

Q And being so involved in the music industry for a large part of your life, did you, why, A, why did you decide 2008 was the right time to move away from music and intervention? And, and then second, is your investing strategy centered slightly towards the music industry because of your prior interest?

A Well, I, I thought, I think that I was, I had this luxury of having a front row seat of watching the first media industry get disrupted by the switch to digital distribution, you know, by the introduction of the commercial internet. And, you know, watching that up close, it became clear to me that the best way to participate in that disruption is as an entrepreneur, you know, being the disruptor, as opposed to trying to survive the disruption. So it's much more fun to be the innovator than it is to be You know, the company involved in a turnaround, struggling with change. Um, and I've come to believe that fundamentally, I think small companies are just much better at innovation than almost all large companies. And so if you're sort of pro-innovation and pro-disruption, the best place to be is in startup land. So, uh, I can't see myself ever working at a big company again.

AI assessment note: “the best way to participate in that disruption is as an entrepreneur”

Q And being so involved in the music industry for a large part of your life, did you, why, A, why did you decide 2008 was the right time to move away from music and intervention? And, and then second, is your investing strategy centered slightly towards the music industry because of your prior interest?

A Well, I, I thought, I think that I was, I had this luxury of having a front row seat of watching the first media industry get disrupted by the switch to digital distribution, you know, by the introduction of the commercial internet. And, you know, watching that up close, it became clear to me that the best way to participate in that disruption is as an entrepreneur, you know, being the disruptor, as opposed to trying to survive the disruption. So it's much more fun to be the innovator than it is to be You know, the company involved in a turnaround, struggling with change. Um, and I've come to believe that fundamentally, I think small companies are just much better at innovation than almost all large companies. And so if you're sort of pro-innovation and pro-disruption, the best place to be is in startup land. So, uh, I can't see myself ever working at a big company again.

AI assessment note: “the best way to participate in that disruption is as an entrepreneur”

Q That's interesting. What are your biggest, then, productivity tips and tricks to make you as efficient as you can be?

A I don't think of sort of specific hacks that make me productive, but I think about what I want to be and how do I get there. I'm definitely focused on not letting anything stand in my way mentally, not letting myself be self-defeated. If I want to achieve greatness that I can do it, but I have to, you know, generally work harder than everyone else. I have to try to work smarter and figure out a way to play, play my own game, play a different game, and really focus just on a massive amount of personal self-improvement. You know, just have this mindset that every day I'm going to learn something that's going to make me a little bit better, a little bit stronger.

AI assessment note: “I don't think of sort of specific hacks that make me productive, but”