The Exchanges

Q Can I ask, I always think we learn from our mistakes. What are the biggest fuck ups you made with Zong and how did they impact your mindset?

A Well, I think, you know, one of the things that we did is, um, is we tried at some point to branch out of carrier billing of mobile operator based payments and basically enable people to, um, Basically link a credit card or debit card to their mobile number so they could do mobile payments and, uh, and, and mobile operators would actually take a smaller cut. And, uh, and that was a bold move, uh, but it backfired at the time and we almost lost the company, uh, if it wasn't for a very fortunate, uh, breakfast, uh, with, uh, with at the time, the, the head of that platform at AT&T, because we were competing head on With a company that was called Boku that had raised way more money than we did. That was way more connected than we were. And this push that we made, uh, at that time, uh, was actually a little tone deaf because of course they leveraged that to try to get us canceled from, uh, the programs that we were part of and that were essential to the company actually serving their customers. And, you know, Facebook was, you know, actually one of our Biggest customers at the time. Um, and so we almost lost it all, um, because I didn't read the room, um, the right way at the time. And, you know, thankfully, you know, I was able to save, save the, the, the company by, uh, trying to basically engage with AT&T at the time and, and, and figure out a path out of that situation that was…

AI assessment note: “that was a lesson. It's like, you know, you need to read the room”

Q Can great companies be built in Europe, David?

A Yeah, of course. Of course. Um, but it's a lot harder. Um, and, you know, we, we've seen, of course, amazingly successful companies in Europe. Um, but the reason I think it's harder is because, you know, if you start, let's say in France, then you have an addressable market that is, you know, basically the worst size, right? Because it's actually too big for you to branch out early. Uh, but too small for you to build a, a world or global defining company. And so you're kind of stuck in this world and every time you need to branch out and go to another market, it's a different culture, a different language. Um, definitely at the time, a different set of rules and, you know, now again, a different set of rules. Um, and so, you know, it's hard enough to build a very successful tech company. Um, And, you know, you just have more constraints, uh, and then also advantages. If you're building in Europe, you have, you know, arguably less competition, less competition for talent. Um, and so there are advantages, but, um, but it's definitely harder.

AI assessment note: “Yeah, of course. Of course. Um, but it's a lot harder.”

Q Now, I love to go back to the very beginning. Um, you founded your first company. I didn't know whether to say this in the year I was born in 1996. Um, how did you come to found your first company, David?

A Well, I think it was a series of events, uh, on, in my personal life, uh, as well as, uh, a deeply rooted, uh, frustration about, uh, uh, monopoly, um, you know, one of telecom and internet service providers in Switzerland where I was at the time. Uh, but basically, uh, I was forced to drop out of college because of a family situation where, you know, the family lost everything. And then I had to go, uh, try to figure out Um, how to make money, which, uh, took me to working in a bank, which I really didn't like. Uh, but that's what you do when you're in Switzerland. Uh, and, um, and then after a year at that bank, uh, I decided I was frustrated enough with, uh, the state of the telecoms industry in Switzerland that was a monopoly basically at the time, and decided that, uh, knowing almost nothing, Or actually nothing about, uh, the telecoms business. I was going to try to go and build a company to compete with, uh, the incumbent at the time, and, uh, and that's how I started.

AI assessment note: “forced to drop out of college because of a family situation”

Q Can I ask, when we think about kind of believable, sorry, believing In terms of you believe it, but unbelievable to others. There is a point in entrepreneurship when something's just not working. How do you think about the balance, and for entrepreneurs advising them, the balance between sticking to your vision and believing what others don't, versus actually it's not working and they don't believe for a reason?

A Well, I think that's, you know, that's, that's a, there's a long way to answer that question. So I'm going to stick with the short version. The first one is you need to feel good about having tried everything when you pull the plug. Uh, and I think that's important, but you also need to be able to read the room, read the metrics, understand if you've launched a product that doesn't find product market fit and you've iterated on it like for a long while that, uh, you need to, Change what you do or stop. Um, I think, you know, in our case, when I think about the Facebook adventure with Libra, um, I still call it Libra because it's a better name than DM. Um, but, uh, when we, when, when I, I basically decided it, it was not worth fighting for it anymore. I felt really good, like really, really good that we had tried everything in our power and then some. To convince regulators and, and, you know, world powers basically that this was something of merit and that the world needed, but, uh, it just wasn't going to happen.

AI assessment note: “you need to feel good about having tried everything when you pull the plug”

Q What was the biggest lesson from working with Mark at Facebook?

A I mean, I think the lesson for the world is don't bet against him because he is one of the, the smartest instinctive people I've ever worked with. Um, and he also is very competitive. And I think, uh, the one lesson as a, as a leader, I think is that he is the best listener that I've ever worked with. He's never touching a phone in a meeting. He will always listen intently to whatever people are saying. He will rarely interrupt people. And he's never afraid of asking questions, even if they may come across as things that he should know. And I think he, because of that, he's just one of the fastest, best learners out there. And so he can learn about a space better than I think anyone I know. Um, so that's kind of an interesting lesson.

AI assessment note: “the one lesson as a, as a leader, I think is that he is the best listener”

Q What are the most significant signs of the tea leaves not looking great?

A Well, I mean, you look at, ah, you look at a number of companies that are now not being built, um, in the US. I mean, you know, one good example is actually the, the first customer that, that we announced that, that light spark, which is a bank, a European bank now, which is called Xapo. That company was actually in the US and they left the US because they didn't feel like they had, uh, uh, the, the regulatory clarity that they needed to continue investing here. That's just one example. Uh, but there are many more in, in this space that have left or decide to avoid the market because there's just no clarity of, of rules of engagements, so to speak. Um, I think, you know, on the geopolitical side, you can see, uh, all kinds of countries that used to be allies of the US trying to pull away from the dollar and, uh, and the, the, the magnetic, um, force field, so to speak of the dollar. Uh, and I think that's the result of, You know, overuse of sanctions and, and, you know, misalignment, um, internationally between the US and its, its former allies. And I think that's a, that's also a typical telltale of what's to come when you're, you're actually, uh, you have the reserve currency of the world and people are trying to pull away from it.

AI assessment note: “countries that used to be allies of the US trying to pull away from the dollar”

Q Can I ask, I always think we learn from our mistakes. What are the biggest fuck ups you made with Zong and how did they impact your mindset?

A Well, I think, you know, one of the things that we did is, um, is we tried at some point to branch out of carrier billing of mobile operator based payments and basically enable people to, um, Basically link a credit card or debit card to their mobile number so they could do mobile payments and, uh, and, and mobile operators would actually take a smaller cut. And, uh, and that was a bold move, uh, but it backfired at the time and we almost lost the company, uh, if it wasn't for a very fortunate, uh, breakfast, uh, with, uh, with at the time, the, the head of that platform at AT&T, because we were competing head on With a company that was called Boku that had raised way more money than we did. That was way more connected than we were. And this push that we made, uh, at that time, uh, was actually a little tone deaf because of course they leveraged that to try to get us canceled from, uh, the programs that we were part of and that were essential to the company actually serving their customers. And, you know, Facebook was, you know, actually one of our Biggest customers at the time. Um, and so we almost lost it all, um, because I didn't read the room, um, the right way at the time. And, you know, thankfully, you know, I was able to save, save the, the, the company by, uh, trying to basically engage with AT&T at the time and, and, and figure out a path out of that situation that was…

AI assessment note: “we tried at some point to branch out of carrier billing... but it backfired”

Q Do you think they're close to providing clarity? Do you think we will see that?

A I certainly hope so, but you know, if we're staying on, on our current path, I don't think it will happen soon. Um, but I hope that, uh, I hope that the entire industry gets, uh, gets a lot of clarity. I think, you know, there, there are interesting things happening on the legislative side. So notably the, the house financial services committee, uh, is working, uh, on a number of proposed bills that I think would clarify, Uh, a little bit of, you know, the, the, the, the murky waters that we're in right now. So I, I think there's hope, but, uh, but you know, those things take a long time and it's, uh, it's really complicated to get consensus across the aisle.

AI assessment note: “if we're staying on, on our current path, I don't think it will happen soon.”

Q Why make the move to LA to build light spark rather than Silicon Valley?

A Well, I think, you know, after 16 years in the Bay Area, it was time, uh, to be here and, uh, and it's great. Honestly, uh, I didn't know whether it would actually work out, but, uh, we've been able to convince amazing talent to move here. Uh, a lot of talent actually left the Bay Area during the COVID years and, uh, and felt even more compelled to come to LA versus going back to the Bay Area. It's a more vibrant city. There's a lot more to do. Um, and, uh, and I think it's a differentiating factor for us and it's, uh, it's been good. And on the personal front, it's, uh, I think a much better place to live, um, than Silicon Valley.

AI assessment note: “we've been able to convince amazing talent to move here”

Q Can I ask, when you say missing the turn, what do you mean by that, David?

A Well, it's just that, you know, I feel like we were in a pretty good position to actually, um, exit, uh, probably a year before, but we decided to continue riding, uh, that market that was, you know, red hot at the time. And this was the time where everyone was rolling fiber optic everywhere in Europe and telecoms were red hot and everyone was really excited about, um, Incumbents being disrupted and newcomers in the space, which, uh, which, you know, was, it was a, a telecom boom. And, uh, you know, we just, you know, missed the turn by a little bit, but had we sold basically six months, nine months before, uh, I wouldn't have been in the situation I ended up being in.

AI assessment note: “we were in a pretty good position to actually, um, exit, uh, probably a year before”

Q Can I ask, when we think about kind of believable, sorry, believing In terms of you believe it, but unbelievable to others. There is a point in entrepreneurship when something's just not working. How do you think about the balance, and for entrepreneurs advising them, the balance between sticking to your vision and believing what others don't, versus actually it's not working and they don't believe for a reason?

A Well, I think that's, you know, that's, that's a, there's a long way to answer that question. So I'm going to stick with the short version. The first one is you need to feel good about having tried everything when you pull the plug. Uh, and I think that's important, but you also need to be able to read the room, read the metrics, understand if you've launched a product that doesn't find product market fit and you've iterated on it like for a long while that, uh, you need to, Change what you do or stop. Um, I think, you know, in our case, when I think about the Facebook adventure with Libra, um, I still call it Libra because it's a better name than DM. Um, but, uh, when we, when, when I, I basically decided it, it was not worth fighting for it anymore. I felt really good, like really, really good that we had tried everything in our power and then some. To convince regulators and, and, you know, world powers basically that this was something of merit and that the world needed, but, uh, it just wasn't going to happen.

AI assessment note: “you need to feel good about having tried everything when you pull the plug”

Q Why make the move to LA to build light spark rather than Silicon Valley?

A Well, I think, you know, after 16 years in the Bay Area, it was time, uh, to be here and, uh, and it's great. Honestly, uh, I didn't know whether it would actually work out, but, uh, we've been able to convince amazing talent to move here. Uh, a lot of talent actually left the Bay Area during the COVID years and, uh, and felt even more compelled to come to LA versus going back to the Bay Area. It's a more vibrant city. There's a lot more to do. Um, and, uh, and I think it's a differentiating factor for us and it's, uh, it's been good. And on the personal front, it's, uh, I think a much better place to live, um, than Silicon Valley.

AI assessment note: “a lot of talent actually left the Bay Area during the COVID years”

Q Can great companies be built in Europe, David?

A Yeah, of course. Of course. Um, but it's a lot harder. Um, and, you know, we, we've seen, of course, amazingly successful companies in Europe. Um, but the reason I think it's harder is because, you know, if you start, let's say in France, then you have an addressable market that is, you know, basically the worst size, right? Because it's actually too big for you to branch out early. Uh, but too small for you to build a, a world or global defining company. And so you're kind of stuck in this world and every time you need to branch out and go to another market, it's a different culture, a different language. Um, definitely at the time, a different set of rules and, you know, now again, a different set of rules. Um, and so, you know, it's hard enough to build a very successful tech company. Um, And, you know, you just have more constraints, uh, and then also advantages. If you're building in Europe, you have, you know, arguably less competition, less competition for talent. Um, and so there are advantages, but, um, but it's definitely harder.

AI assessment note: “Yeah, of course. Of course. Um, but it's a lot harder.”

Q What are the most significant signs of the tea leaves not looking great?

A Well, I mean, you look at, ah, you look at a number of companies that are now not being built, um, in the US. I mean, you know, one good example is actually the, the first customer that, that we announced that, that light spark, which is a bank, a European bank now, which is called Xapo. That company was actually in the US and they left the US because they didn't feel like they had, uh, uh, the, the regulatory clarity that they needed to continue investing here. That's just one example. Uh, but there are many more in, in this space that have left or decide to avoid the market because there's just no clarity of, of rules of engagements, so to speak. Um, I think, you know, on the geopolitical side, you can see, uh, all kinds of countries that used to be allies of the US trying to pull away from the dollar and, uh, and the, the, the magnetic, um, force field, so to speak of the dollar. Uh, and I think that's the result of, You know, overuse of sanctions and, and, you know, misalignment, um, internationally between the US and its, its former allies. And I think that's a, that's also a typical telltale of what's to come when you're, you're actually, uh, you have the reserve currency of the world and people are trying to pull away from it.

AI assessment note: “you look at a number of companies that are now not being built”

Q of kind of being in the lead, I, I want to go to another of your fantastic tweets. Um, clearly I'm a fanboy of your Twitter stream, but you said so much of entrepreneurship is believing in what is unbelievable to others, and then doing whatever it takes to manifest it into reality. Let's put that on you and LightSpark. What do you believe with LightSpark that's unbelievable to others?

A Well, I think that what we believe here is that the world desperately needs a protocol for payments or for money on the internet. And when you think about the early days of the internet, you actually had this HTTP four Oh two protocol that was supposed to be a request for payments and was supposed to be built, but never was. And, um, and that's our core belief. Our core belief is you need an open interoperable Dirt cheap protocol for payments or money on the internet that settles in real time and enables people to move value around the world on the internet the same way that they send an email or a text message. Um, so that's what we believe in. And, um, and you know, that's what we're trying to facilitate here at LightSpark.

AI assessment note: “what we believe here is that the world desperately needs a protocol for payments”

Q I mean, that was kind of my point there. When you look at Coinbase receiving notice from the SEC and all they've done brilliantly to be partners to the SEC and collaborate. Why would you bother if you're an entrepreneur? Why not go to the outskirts, do an FTX, bluntly? Is there a benefit to holding hands with regulators anymore?

A Well, I don't know about holding hands, but engaging in earnest, um, and trying to reach the right outcome, uh, the right balance between protecting consumers and, uh, stimulating innovation, I think is absolutely essential. And I think, you know, Brian Armstrong has done a really, really good job at balancing this, uh, and from the get-go decided that he wanted to play by the rules and has been desperately Uh, demanding clear rules, uh, from the various regulators. And, you know, certainly I think over the long run, if you're playing the long game, that's the only way. And I think, uh, I think, you know, they're going to be a very successful company because they think about it, uh, over the long run and, uh, and they're not taking shortcuts. So I think that's the right way to build a, a longstanding company.

AI assessment note: “over the long run, if you're playing the long game, that's the only way”

Q Do you think they're close to providing clarity? Do you think we will see that?

A I certainly hope so, but you know, if we're staying on, on our current path, I don't think it will happen soon. Um, but I hope that, uh, I hope that the entire industry gets, uh, gets a lot of clarity. I think, you know, there, there are interesting things happening on the legislative side. So notably the, the house financial services committee, uh, is working, uh, on a number of proposed bills that I think would clarify, Uh, a little bit of, you know, the, the, the, the murky waters that we're in right now. So I, I think there's hope, but, uh, but you know, those things take a long time and it's, uh, it's really complicated to get consensus across the aisle.

AI assessment note: “if we're staying on, on our current path, I don't think it will happen soon.”

Q of kind of being in the lead, I, I want to go to another of your fantastic tweets. Um, clearly I'm a fanboy of your Twitter stream, but you said so much of entrepreneurship is believing in what is unbelievable to others, and then doing whatever it takes to manifest it into reality. Let's put that on you and LightSpark. What do you believe with LightSpark that's unbelievable to others?

A Well, I think that what we believe here is that the world desperately needs a protocol for payments or for money on the internet. And when you think about the early days of the internet, you actually had this HTTP four Oh two protocol that was supposed to be a request for payments and was supposed to be built, but never was. And, um, and that's our core belief. Our core belief is you need an open interoperable Dirt cheap protocol for payments or money on the internet that settles in real time and enables people to move value around the world on the internet the same way that they send an email or a text message. Um, so that's what we believe in. And, um, and you know, that's what we're trying to facilitate here at LightSpark.

AI assessment note: “what we believe here is that the world desperately needs a protocol for payments”

Q I mean, that was kind of my point there. When you look at Coinbase receiving notice from the SEC and all they've done brilliantly to be partners to the SEC and collaborate. Why would you bother if you're an entrepreneur? Why not go to the outskirts, do an FTX, bluntly? Is there a benefit to holding hands with regulators anymore?

A Well, I don't know about holding hands, but engaging in earnest, um, and trying to reach the right outcome, uh, the right balance between protecting consumers and, uh, stimulating innovation, I think is absolutely essential. And I think, you know, Brian Armstrong has done a really, really good job at balancing this, uh, and from the get-go decided that he wanted to play by the rules and has been desperately Uh, demanding clear rules, uh, from the various regulators. And, you know, certainly I think over the long run, if you're playing the long game, that's the only way. And I think, uh, I think, you know, they're going to be a very successful company because they think about it, uh, over the long run and, uh, and they're not taking shortcuts. So I think that's the right way to build a, a longstanding company.

AI assessment note: “over the long run, if you're playing the long game, that's the only way”

Q What was the hardest thing in that transition?

A The hardest thing was actually that I came into this really cold and not really knowing, uh, how a corporate organization functioned, um, which was kind of probably a blessing, uh, for me, but, but the hardest thing was actually the frustration of seeing so many people who were there, not because they believed in the mission or because they were passionate about a specific product or solving a specific problem. Uh, but just coasting there and, you know, being, uh, at the company and, and taking their paycheck home and, you know, punching in. And that was really hard for me. And so, uh, the culture of the company as well at the, at that time, like it, it had lost a lot of its, um, innovation mojo and a lot of, uh, their best engineers were, were gone. There were a bunch left, but a lot of them had, had, had, you know, basically, uh, gone, uh, to, to other companies over the years. And so I started.

AI assessment note: “the hardest thing was actually the frustration of seeing so many people”

Q What was the hardest thing in that transition?

A The hardest thing was actually that I came into this really cold and not really knowing, uh, how a corporate organization functioned, um, which was kind of probably a blessing, uh, for me, but, but the hardest thing was actually the frustration of seeing so many people who were there, not because they believed in the mission or because they were passionate about a specific product or solving a specific problem. Uh, but just coasting there and, you know, being, uh, at the company and, and taking their paycheck home and, you know, punching in. And that was really hard for me. And so, uh, the culture of the company as well at the, at that time, like it, it had lost a lot of its, um, innovation mojo and a lot of, uh, their best engineers were, were gone. There were a bunch left, but a lot of them had, had, had, you know, basically, uh, gone, uh, to, to other companies over the years. And so I started.

AI assessment note: “the hardest thing was actually the frustration of seeing so many people”

Q You then founded Zong in 2008, and you moved to the Valley. Why did you decide to move to the Valley and, and can great companies not be built from Europe, David?

A Well, first of all, the, the, the, the Zong thing is actually a much longer, uh, arc. Um, so I sold the company and then a couple of months later, I started a new company, which was called Echovox, which was basically the same company as Zong ended up being. We just, uh, uh, pivot pivoted at, um, and I think the right time this time around. And basically Echovox was doing, uh, premium SMS products. Um, so voting for pop idol and all of the TV shows, downloading ringtones and wallpapers and games on mobile phones. And, um, and it did quite well. Uh, you know, the, the year that I, uh, had this big push with my board to move to Silicon Valley, I think we were on track to doing about thirty million dollars of revenue. Uh, we have three X star revenue and, uh, it was 2007 and basically the iPhone came to the market and I came to the realization that You know, if you have an iPhone that has access to the internet, all of the things that we were offering, Uh, we're going to be disrupted greatly. I mean, no one was going to actually pay two dollars to download a ringtone or a wallpaper for a feature phone when you have access to the internet on, on a smartphone. And, uh, and that's what made me want to push, uh, really hard on my board that wasn't very favorable or favorable at all at the time to move to Silicon Valley and try to convert all of the connections that we had with all of …

AI assessment note: “that's what made me want to push... to move to Silicon Valley”

Q You then founded Zong in 2008, and you moved to the Valley. Why did you decide to move to the Valley and, and can great companies not be built from Europe, David?

A Well, first of all, the, the, the, the Zong thing is actually a much longer, uh, arc. Um, so I sold the company and then a couple of months later, I started a new company, which was called Echovox, which was basically the same company as Zong ended up being. We just, uh, uh, pivot pivoted at, um, and I think the right time this time around. And basically Echovox was doing, uh, premium SMS products. Um, so voting for pop idol and all of the TV shows, downloading ringtones and wallpapers and games on mobile phones. And, um, and it did quite well. Uh, you know, the, the year that I, uh, had this big push with my board to move to Silicon Valley, I think we were on track to doing about thirty million dollars of revenue. Uh, we have three X star revenue and, uh, it was 2007 and basically the iPhone came to the market and I came to the realization that You know, if you have an iPhone that has access to the internet, all of the things that we were offering, Uh, we're going to be disrupted greatly. I mean, no one was going to actually pay two dollars to download a ringtone or a wallpaper for a feature phone when you have access to the internet on, on a smartphone. And, uh, and that's what made me want to push, uh, really hard on my board that wasn't very favorable or favorable at all at the time to move to Silicon Valley and try to convert all of the connections that we had with all of …

AI assessment note: “that's what made me want to push... to move to Silicon Valley”

Q Can I ask, when you say missing the turn, what do you mean by that, David?

A Well, it's just that, you know, I feel like we were in a pretty good position to actually, um, exit, uh, probably a year before, but we decided to continue riding, uh, that market that was, you know, red hot at the time. And this was the time where everyone was rolling fiber optic everywhere in Europe and telecoms were red hot and everyone was really excited about, um, Incumbents being disrupted and newcomers in the space, which, uh, which, you know, was, it was a, a telecom boom. And, uh, you know, we just, you know, missed the turn by a little bit, but had we sold basically six months, nine months before, uh, I wouldn't have been in the situation I ended up being in.

AI assessment note: “had we sold basically six months, nine months before”

Q Can I ask one thing that I think everyone's kind of agreeing on is the ability for 10 people to create billion dollar companies again with the leverage that AI and kind of co-creation that will be enabled by AI. Uh, how do you think about income equality and how that will be impacted by the future next three years of AI?

A you I mean, look, I think it cuts both ways. Uh, I feel like on, on the inequality, it's also going to be a great equalizer because think about all of the people out there that can't even defend themselves, uh, or have the ability to write the right letter to be sent to the right governmental body or company to look after their own interests right now and typically get steamrolled over and over again. Uh, by the system. Now they have, you know, an ally that can, you know, actually write these letters and fight for them and do all of these things. That's just one example, right? But there are millions of others. I think that actually a lot of people who didn't have access to fancy attorneys and, and the likes will, will, will find a lot of value here. And, and I also think that by the way, if you have an idea of a product that you want to build to your point, Uh, having those superpowers at your fingertip is going to enable many more people to start companies and, um, and, and build new things that wouldn't have been possible for them to build before. Um, so I, I'm a kind of glass half full person when I think about this. I think that it's, it's more of a democratization of tools, uh, that were available to a few, uh, that is now available to almost everyone. And you can see that actually, You know, I think the last number I saw was that, you know, chat GPT, uh, had over a hundr…

AI assessment note: “on the inequality, it's also going to be a great equalizer”

Q internally and externally. I, I'm, I'm hopping, and so I'm sorry for kind of hopping through careers, but Zong was then acquired by PayPal in 2011, and you joined as a VP. It was, you know, such a transformative institution. Um, when you think about, like, one to two of the biggest takeaways for you from that experience that really impacted your mindset today, are there some that stand out?

A So I think, you know, the first thing is I was actually really passionate about PayPal. Um, so when the acquisition closed, instead of staying in our office in Menlo Park at the time, um, I asked to have a desk at PayPal and I moved immediately first day. Um, and I wanted to try to figure out how to operate in this new environment at the company. Uh, which is an unusual thing to do. Like typically you, if you're acquired, you're trying to preserve the unit that you've built, like the company and, you know, not integrate yourself, uh, because it's a lot of overhead and complicated, but again, like I didn't know what I was doing. I had never worked in a large organization like that before. Um, and so I went there and it became really obvious at the time. That the company really needed to innovate on mobile aggressively. Uh, and it didn't have a card present, uh, terminal at the time where Square was actually really, really capturing market share in the offline market. And so I decided that I needed to try to do something about it. And, and in the span of six months or less, we basically had our product in the market, which was the The first hardware product that PayPal had shipped. And, you know, that changed the trajectory, I think, of what followed because, you know, a few months after I joined Scott Thompson left to become the CEO. Scott Thompson, who was leading PayPal at the…

AI assessment note: “So I think, you know, the first thing is I was actually really passionate about PayPal.”

Q as a tweet, um, it was fantastic. America will remain in the lead if it stopped getting, if it stops getting its own way. You can feel nations pulling away from the US dollar. I was actually just messaging with Hugo Bauer, our mutual friend before this, and he thought this was a good question. How could America stop getting its own way, and what would that look like, David?

A Well, I think, you know, it's important to get back to why people like me and before me and after me came to this country to build innovative companies. The first one is the rule of law, uh, and a level playing field. Um, that's kind of the basics, but the most important one is actually the fact that if you're innovating and you're solving a real problem, then, uh, You know, basically you have an option of, of doing that and no one's going to stand in your way. So this meritocracy of you're coming to this country, you're innovating, you're building something great. Um, and, and you're creating jobs in the process and you're in the lead. Um, I think that, you know, that requires a certain set of conditions to be met. And I feel like right now, You need to come up with clear regulations when it touches like special, especially the industry that I'm in. Clear regulations that protect consumers, but also that enables innovators to go build the things that are going to continue keeping the country ahead. And then I think there are all kinds of other foreign policy considerations here, um, that, that are at play. Uh, but when you look at the tea leaves right now, it's really not looking great. It's, um, it feels a little bit like we're on, on the path of an end of an empire of sorts. And, um, and that's probably reversible, uh, if there's concerted effort to actually really focus on …

AI assessment note: “You need to come up with clear regulations when it touches like special, especially the industry”

Q internally and externally. I, I'm, I'm hopping, and so I'm sorry for kind of hopping through careers, but Zong was then acquired by PayPal in 2011, and you joined as a VP. It was, you know, such a transformative institution. Um, when you think about, like, one to two of the biggest takeaways for you from that experience that really impacted your mindset today, are there some that stand out?

A So I think, you know, the first thing is I was actually really passionate about PayPal. Um, so when the acquisition closed, instead of staying in our office in Menlo Park at the time, um, I asked to have a desk at PayPal and I moved immediately first day. Um, and I wanted to try to figure out how to operate in this new environment at the company. Uh, which is an unusual thing to do. Like typically you, if you're acquired, you're trying to preserve the unit that you've built, like the company and, you know, not integrate yourself, uh, because it's a lot of overhead and complicated, but again, like I didn't know what I was doing. I had never worked in a large organization like that before. Um, and so I went there and it became really obvious at the time. That the company really needed to innovate on mobile aggressively. Uh, and it didn't have a card present, uh, terminal at the time where Square was actually really, really capturing market share in the offline market. And so I decided that I needed to try to do something about it. And, and in the span of six months or less, we basically had our product in the market, which was the The first hardware product that PayPal had shipped. And, you know, that changed the trajectory, I think, of what followed because, you know, a few months after I joined Scott Thompson left to become the CEO. Scott Thompson, who was leading PayPal at the…

AI assessment note: “I wanted to try to figure out how to operate in this new environment”

Q as a tweet, um, it was fantastic. America will remain in the lead if it stopped getting, if it stops getting its own way. You can feel nations pulling away from the US dollar. I was actually just messaging with Hugo Bauer, our mutual friend before this, and he thought this was a good question. How could America stop getting its own way, and what would that look like, David?

A Well, I think, you know, it's important to get back to why people like me and before me and after me came to this country to build innovative companies. The first one is the rule of law, uh, and a level playing field. Um, that's kind of the basics, but the most important one is actually the fact that if you're innovating and you're solving a real problem, then, uh, You know, basically you have an option of, of doing that and no one's going to stand in your way. So this meritocracy of you're coming to this country, you're innovating, you're building something great. Um, and, and you're creating jobs in the process and you're in the lead. Um, I think that, you know, that requires a certain set of conditions to be met. And I feel like right now, You need to come up with clear regulations when it touches like special, especially the industry that I'm in. Clear regulations that protect consumers, but also that enables innovators to go build the things that are going to continue keeping the country ahead. And then I think there are all kinds of other foreign policy considerations here, um, that, that are at play. Uh, but when you look at the tea leaves right now, it's really not looking great. It's, um, it feels a little bit like we're on, on the path of an end of an empire of sorts. And, um, and that's probably reversible, uh, if there's concerted effort to actually really focus on …

AI assessment note: “need to come up with clear regulations... that enables innovators to go build”

Q How have you changed most as a leader over time?

A Well, I mean, look, I'm kind of an unusual animal in the sense that I started as an entrepreneur. I went into corporate stuff and I stayed in it for a decade. And, uh, and some of my friends joke that they thought I would be in and out in a year. Uh, and, you know, I stayed, I stayed in PayPal for almost four years and I stayed You know, seven plus years at, at Facebook, which was an incredible, incredible run. Um, there just, I had so many amazing lessons and amazing people like Mark to work with and, and others. Um, and, and I feel like, you know, I've learned to do both things. So it's kind of an interesting thing. I've learned to do things at large scale. Uh, and I find myself, uh, really back in my element, uh, In building something from scratch again as an entrepreneur again. And, uh, and I think, you know, I, I have, I, I've benefited from spending so much time in, in large scale organizations. I've learned so much. So, you know, I'm, I'm really excited to put all of this to work at LightSpark here with, with my team.

AI assessment note: “I've learned to do things at large scale.”