The Exchanges

Q Now I've been following the ON story for years and it's just such a great one. So I want to start at the beginning with 2010, two other co-founders. What was that co-founding aha moment for the three friends?

A You know, it was actually 2009 and the rainy morning when, uh, Olivier, my co-founder and, uh, Duathlon, um, uh, world champion triathlete, he said, Hey, I have this amazing idea of a new running shoe, um, and invited Casper and Mead for a, for a test run. And so it was a morning, it was raining. He had some wet shoes because he had already had some tests, done some testing and he had shaved off a pair of running shoes. And glued rubber pieces that he had gotten from cutting his garden hose underneath the shoe. So these hollow elements and this Casper and I had said before, Hey, why let me, why do we let Olivier invest his hard earned athlete money into a crazy idea? But then we took the shoe for a spin and it was just an amazing sensation.

AI assessment note: “we took the shoe for a spin and it was just an amazing sensation”

Q cool for me. It's such a fun. I get to ask like all the questions I want to know. My, my, my first here would be, you said about influencers earlier. Do you just like in the early days, did you just send them like famous marathon runners, famous triathletes, famous athletes? Did you just send them shoes? Did you ask them to wear them? What was that process like?

A Yes, absolutely. And of course, Olivier is fully ingrained in that community. And so, um, he, he, uh, he called all his friends and, uh, his friends called all their friends. And so we made sure that some of the best athletes were in our shoes. And I remember a moment in, I think it was 2013. So, uh, three years into the journey where Fredrik von Lirde, um, um, uh, one of the top talents and contenders For, um, for the, the, the, the Ironman triathlon on Kona for the, for the, for the world championships, um, he wore our shoe and it was a prototype. So Olivier, uh, was always cycling behind him on the running route because Olivier was afraid that the shoe is going to fall apart, but it didn't fall apart and Fred won the world championship in triathlon in our shoe and was on that podium wearing the Kona crown. Which is the trophy of, uh, the world championship, uh, of that, of the Ironman. And so that was a, that was an amazing moment for us to, that probably stands for how we connected to the athlete community and really built on out of core running and together with athletes.

AI assessment note: “he called all his friends and, uh, his friends called all their friends.”

Q Can I ask, how did he come to be a shareholder? Did you say, Hey, we want you to be a part of this, like take advisory shares and be an ambassador. How did the deal come about?

A So we said at this, at this meeting in the lab, we said, Hey, Roger, uh, or Roger said, Hey, I would love to get involved. And we were super honored and said, Hey, that's fantastic. But, you know, You know, something like classic sports, uh, sports star endorsement, us giving money to you. That's not, that's not really your own style because we've always been growing out of the community and, um, and that's not in our playbook, but how about not us giving you money, but you giving us money and becoming a co-investor and a co-entrepreneur together with us. And to our surprise, Roger said, yes, that's what I'm going to do. It has turned into a fantastic partnership and friendship where he now probably spends 30 days, 30 to 40 days per year with us here in Onlabs, working on products and, um, our, um, uh, we're completely aligned.

AI assessment note: “how about not us giving you money, but you giving us money”

Q VC is loving the brand early and being big advocates. You also have a very, uh, well-known advocate in the form of Roger Federer. Um, Uh, when I put it on social that you were coming on the show, um, many comments were about Roger. How did that happen? Just tell me the story there. I'm too interested. How did it come to me that Roger and On came together?

A Again, so often in our journey, it was, um, quite organic. So, um, we saw him posting, um, from Paris on his Insta account in On shoes. And they said, wow, uh, Roger now, and that he's not working with another company anymore, he seems to To be a big fan of one. And, uh, some of our friends in Switzerland noticed as well, and Switzerland is a small place. So they said, Hey, you should have dinner together. And, uh, this we did. So, um, so, uh, we met in, in Zurich in a little restaurant. Roger came in with his baseball cap deeply into his face. Um, he brought a friend as well, and we just had a great conversation over that dinner. We talked about, of course, sports. About innovation, about technology, because Roger has a lot of history in, um, in, especially in shoe development, but also apparel. Uh, we spoke about design as well, uh, popular culture. So we felt there was a connection and he extended the challenge to us and said, Hey, could you bring your unique patented cloud tech to tennis shoes as well? So we met again two months later and we, Showed him an outsole. We had a printed outsole that brought Cloud Tech in a hidden form factor into a tennis shoe. And, uh, two years later, he was actually doing his comeback in Wilmington in, uh, in the, in the Roger Pro that had this, this, this sole, um, coming, uh, coming to tennis.

AI assessment note: “we saw him posting, um, from Paris on his Insta account in On shoes.”

Q We mentioned brands. I'm fascinated. You know, you, you spoke earlier about the scene of running in the store and how you bring that to life. When you think about a brand that you most respect other than on, obviously, what's the brand that you most respect and why?

A If I would ask my friends at all and my team around me that, uh, they would say, Hey, David loves Apple. Um, so to this day, um, most all computers at all are Apple. And, uh, so I've been a, I've been a big Apple fan boy from the very start. And I'll tell you why. First of all, I feel Apple did an amazing job in. Reframing what a computer is from the very beginning. So bring together the technical innovation with design and the human aspect of it. And if you think back, it unfortunately doesn't have it today anymore, but the breathing light on a laptop that indicates that the laptop is asleep. Um, is that Tech or is it design? And so I feel it's right at the, at the intersection. And so I think that's where magic happens and same for scrolling on the iPhone. Remember that moment when you first saw the scroll on the iPhone, is that now tech or is it design? It's that, it's that magic that happens. And then Apple. So I think that Apple built that combination and I admire brands that are able To build innovation and technology, but then also that design layer on top of it to create magic. And then of course, Apple built a great brand out of that as well.

AI assessment note: “David loves Apple. Um, so to this day, um, most all computers”

Q cool for me. It's such a fun. I get to ask like all the questions I want to know. My, my, my first here would be, you said about influencers earlier. Do you just like in the early days, did you just send them like famous marathon runners, famous triathletes, famous athletes? Did you just send them shoes? Did you ask them to wear them? What was that process like?

A Yes, absolutely. And of course, Olivier is fully ingrained in that community. And so, um, he, he, uh, he called all his friends and, uh, his friends called all their friends. And so we made sure that some of the best athletes were in our shoes. And I remember a moment in, I think it was 2013. So, uh, three years into the journey where Fredrik von Lirde, um, um, uh, one of the top talents and contenders For, um, for the, the, the, the Ironman triathlon on Kona for the, for the, for the world championships, um, he wore our shoe and it was a prototype. So Olivier, uh, was always cycling behind him on the running route because Olivier was afraid that the shoe is going to fall apart, but it didn't fall apart and Fred won the world championship in triathlon in our shoe and was on that podium wearing the Kona crown. Which is the trophy of, uh, the world championship, uh, of that, of the Ironman. And so that was a, that was an amazing moment for us to, that probably stands for how we connected to the athlete community and really built on out of core running and together with athletes.

AI assessment note: “he called all his friends and, uh, his friends called all their friends.”

Q Can I ask, how did he come to be a shareholder? Did you say, Hey, we want you to be a part of this, like take advisory shares and be an ambassador. How did the deal come about?

A So we said at this, at this meeting in the lab, we said, Hey, Roger, uh, or Roger said, Hey, I would love to get involved. And we were super honored and said, Hey, that's fantastic. But, you know, You know, something like classic sports, uh, sports star endorsement, us giving money to you. That's not, that's not really your own style because we've always been growing out of the community and, um, and that's not in our playbook, but how about not us giving you money, but you giving us money and becoming a co-investor and a co-entrepreneur together with us. And to our surprise, Roger said, yes, that's what I'm going to do. It has turned into a fantastic partnership and friendship where he now probably spends 30 days, 30 to 40 days per year with us here in Onlabs, working on products and, um, our, um, uh, we're completely aligned.

AI assessment note: “how about not us giving you money, but you giving us money and becoming a co-investor”

Q VC is loving the brand early and being big advocates. You also have a very, uh, well-known advocate in the form of Roger Federer. Um, Uh, when I put it on social that you were coming on the show, um, many comments were about Roger. How did that happen? Just tell me the story there. I'm too interested. How did it come to me that Roger and On came together?

A Again, so often in our journey, it was, um, quite organic. So, um, we saw him posting, um, from Paris on his Insta account in On shoes. And they said, wow, uh, Roger now, and that he's not working with another company anymore, he seems to To be a big fan of one. And, uh, some of our friends in Switzerland noticed as well, and Switzerland is a small place. So they said, Hey, you should have dinner together. And, uh, this we did. So, um, so, uh, we met in, in Zurich in a little restaurant. Roger came in with his baseball cap deeply into his face. Um, he brought a friend as well, and we just had a great conversation over that dinner. We talked about, of course, sports. About innovation, about technology, because Roger has a lot of history in, um, in, especially in shoe development, but also apparel. Uh, we spoke about design as well, uh, popular culture. So we felt there was a connection and he extended the challenge to us and said, Hey, could you bring your unique patented cloud tech to tennis shoes as well? So we met again two months later and we, Showed him an outsole. We had a printed outsole that brought Cloud Tech in a hidden form factor into a tennis shoe. And, uh, two years later, he was actually doing his comeback in Wilmington in, uh, in the, in the Roger Pro that had this, this, this sole, um, coming, uh, coming to tennis.

AI assessment note: “we saw him posting, um, from Paris on his Insta account in On shoes”

Q Okay. So, you know, you have this revelation that this can change running for you and for millions of other people. What do you do then? Like, how do you make the first shoe and what was that process?

A You know, that was a little bit messy at first because we were full in, um, in, in exploration stage. And so we weren't sure about it yet. So it was this unsure, confused phase that is the start of innovation. So, um, we went out to Athletes and had them test shoes just kind of to give us confidence as well. And many of them said when they stepped into the shoe, they said, wow, that's different. So that's what we, the word different. That's what we always heard. Um, Casper went off to talk to first, um, specialty running retailers. So the, the hardcore running, run mom and pop shops a little bit outside in the, in the village where all the serious runners go to, to get the best advice. And I was actually boarding a plane to Asia, uh, because a friend of mine had given me the contact to somebody who, uh, who knows somebody who works in a, in a, in a shoe factory. And so, uh, we have, we, we didn't come from the sports industry. So I went there and learned how to make shoes.

AI assessment note: “I was actually boarding a plane to Asia... and learned how to make shoes.”

Q Okay. So, you know, you have this revelation that this can change running for you and for millions of other people. What do you do then? Like, how do you make the first shoe and what was that process?

A You know, that was a little bit messy at first because we were full in, um, in, in exploration stage. And so we weren't sure about it yet. So it was this unsure, confused phase that is the start of innovation. So, um, we went out to Athletes and had them test shoes just kind of to give us confidence as well. And many of them said when they stepped into the shoe, they said, wow, that's different. So that's what we, the word different. That's what we always heard. Um, Casper went off to talk to first, um, specialty running retailers. So the, the hardcore running, run mom and pop shops a little bit outside in the, in the village where all the serious runners go to, to get the best advice. And I was actually boarding a plane to Asia, uh, because a friend of mine had given me the contact to somebody who, uh, who knows somebody who works in a, in a, in a shoe factory. And so, uh, we have, we, we didn't come from the sports industry. So I went there and learned how to make shoes.

AI assessment note: “I was actually boarding a plane to Asia... and learned how to make shoes.”

Q And then tell me, so that's a massive decision. Number one, how do you launch us? It's a big market. It's a crowded market. How did you approach the launch strategy for respectfully on an unknown Swiss European brand?

A It's not essentially not so different than from any other countries. If it's, it's been the, the same grassroots approach that we had in Switzerland, in Germany, in, in, in, in, in, in France, in the UK as well. We just go out and start with some of the most important influencers. In the U S you probably don't go out to the whole country at once, but you, um, you, you select your metropolitan area. So for us, it was, for example, at At the very beginning, it was New York and, uh, and then other, other parts like, uh, San Francisco, LA, um, Miami, um, Portland, of course, where our, um, where our offices in, in, in the U S these were then attached and, and we started to work with the local community.

AI assessment note: “It's been the, the same grassroots approach that we had in Switzerland”

Q When did you decide to do your own stores? Cause we mentioned before the show, I love your store in London. When did you decide that actually we can own this experience as well and we should do on retail experience ourselves?

A We had the perfect timing. We decided that probably a little bit more than a year before COVID. And so we selected our first location in, uh, in New York and we came up with the concept and then we built the store and we launched it during COVID. So, uh, That was what you call a soft launch, I would say. Um, because, uh, it was really in the middle of it, but hey, uh, it was actually great because we could, um, get into it, learn, and we could also connect because there was almost no tourist traffic to New York. So we also partnered very much with the local run community. When COVID was coming to the end and people were coming out again, and you remember the running boom. So a lot of runs, community runs started, started at our store. And so we partnered with the community. Now every day runs start at the New York store. Um, but now of course you have the full traffic back. And so, um, we felt it's a very unique experience that we also developed. And so we're now, um, coming to other cities around the, around the world.

AI assessment note: “We decided that probably a little bit more than a year before COVID.”

Q What have been your biggest lessons in what it takes to make retail work so well?

A You know, um, probably the biggest question that we had when we developed the retail concept is why would you go back to a shop to buy shoes and then also apparel? Why would you not just do that on a website? And we realized that often if you go to a sports store that you don't spend so much time with actually the people of the brand and of the store. Because it's about, Hey, what, what is your size? And then somebody disappears for a five minutes somewhere in a locker room, uh, or in a, in a, in a, in a, in a, in a, in the back room and comes back with the size and then it's probably not the right size. And then this person disappears for another 10 minutes. And then after 20 minutes, you're there with a lot of boxes and, uh, and it's the first time that you speak to each other. And so our thought process was how can you reinvent that? That's again. Add on. We always try to do things a little bit differently. And so we created a huge piece, which we call the archive and you see every shoe of on, on that big archive. It's landed like, uh, Like, uh, an object from outer space in that, uh, in that space. And then there's the magic move, which is with a secret button, you can open this archive and you pull out the drawer. And then of each of the shoes, you have one size, uh, all the sizes of that shoe. So within seconds, that shoe is on your feet. And then if you decide that this …

AI assessment note: “our thought process was how can you reinvent that? That's again. Add on.”

Q Can I ask you, there's two more topics that I think are really, like, fascinating and that we haven't touched on yet, but we, we mentioned, kind of, funding earlier. You didn't raise venture funding in the way that we see today. Why did you not decide to raise venture funding first?

A Well, venture funding came a little bit later. We had a privilege that we had built a, in, uh, in previous years before on, um, quite good connections. Switzerland is small. So, um, we had, uh, good friends who were able together with us to put a little bit, uh, uh, of money into that starting jam jar. And so that got us off the ground and, uh, They were great. They were actually, uh, even helping operationally partly in the business. So I, uh, remember particularly when, uh, with one of our early investors with Eric, I was dressing mannequins at one of the first, uh, running events in Austin. Um, so they were very hands-on and that was, uh, a great time that we were, we had some external co-explorers together with us, um, also Philip and So these were the foundational years. Um, but what was great as well, um, was that our community around us also helped us to be very connected to the U S also to the tech investor community. So we had actually, uh, quite a bit of, uh, tech investors who love the shoes, who came in very early, um, into on. And then, uh, a few years later, Stripe, Uh, uh, and, and venture capital from, from New York who's, uh, uh, and they are greatly connected at the intersection between consumer brands, but also tech. Um, so very much in the innovation space as well, they were, uh, they were our first, um, true VC connect, uh, VC investor.

AI assessment note: “we had good friends who were able together with us to put a little bit”

Q Can I ask why was it an amazing sensation? What did it feel like?

A So Olivier, um, obviously as a triathlete had had a lot of time to think while running and, um, he, he, he asked himself, Hey, um, I go for these training runs on very cushioned shoes, but then when you compete, you literally run in, in shoes that are called racing flats. And so they're very hard and you feel it the next day. Wouldn't there be a way to engineer it that you have, that I have best of both worlds in one shoe. And that was the breakthrough idea. And what these hollow elements do is they give you a lot of cushioning when you land, but then they fully compress and they give you this flat surface so that you can push off with all your energy. And so that made this sensation of being super soft, but also super responsive and explosive when you push off. And, uh, and that got us. So, because we also had been a generation that first discovered suspension, um, bikes, full suspension, mountain bikes and, uh, carving skis. And in both of these occasions, it was a revelation where you felt, Hey, wow, this change is skiing for me, or this change is biking for me. And so on this morning we had that pattern recognition of, Hey, this could change running for me.

AI assessment note: “made this sensation of being super soft, but also super responsive and explosive”

Q And you were paying for this yourself at that point? You were funding it yourself?

A No, at that point, not anymore. Kind of for the first flights in 2009, we all paid ourselves, but then we had first, um, we had put all our money into the company. And so, uh, I always flew From, I think from Zurich to Dubai to Hong Kong, and then took the train because that was the cheapest option. And so, um, pushing shoes out, but then also for Casper and Olivier who visited a lot of retailers, getting that first conversation opportunity to present the shoe was hard. So their tactic was to call a retailer up at the local running shop. Um, Hey, I just happened to be in town. What's your size? Um, and ah, by the way, I just have your size with me. Can we go for a, for a run over lunch? So it was really one by one, uh, the hard groundwork of getting your first wins.

AI assessment note: “No, at that point, not anymore. Kind of for the first flights in 2009”

Q How impactful was it, Roger wearing it for the brand? Like, I think he's obviously, and you'll agree, done a lot for the brand. Blake, was it a boom moment with Roger coming on board?

A Yes, definitely. I mean, um, when we launched, so I remember we launched, um, our collaboration with a big run through Central Park in, in New York. And Of course we were on morning shows. Um, uh, we were doing the whole tour and it was exploding now. Um, so Roger, um, did, uh, an amazing, contributed in a very significant way to the, to the, to the awareness for the, for the brand. And of course also there are millions and millions of people who love Roger. So one of the most, Um, loved sports stars probably on the planet. And so that did a lot for Ron. At the same time, Roger is also very committed to build our second sport tennis with us, but Roger is also very much interested in the core running space. So we also talk a lot about next running shoe innovation. So it's really, we, we work together as co-entrepreneurs.

AI assessment note: “contributed in a very significant way to the, to the, to the awareness”

Q I'm sure you would have done David. Um, my question to you is like, when you think about like going back to those one by one regional stores, oh, we're in the same place. What was the inflection point where it really started to take off? What was that moment where it went from one to one to boom?

A You know, it, it needed quite a bit of perseverance and, and, and patience as well. So our, Experience was the first two, three years in a, in a market are hard because you, if you really want to build that out of together with athletes and out of core running, you seed a lot. You convince a lot of very dedicated, small retailers. You were, you talk to people, you, um, get influence in, uh, in, in the running community. You do a lot of Test runs. And so until you hit a certain scale, it probably takes two to three years. And then after three years, we, we were seeing in our small home market, really that, that hockey stick moment where it's taking off. Um, fortunately we had decided at the very beginning, um, that we're coming from a very small market. Switzerland is seven million people. So that's a, that's a greater New York area, or probably a greater Yeah. And so there's no option to build a global sports brand out of Switzerland. And so we were pretty much a global company from the start. So in the, we were in Europe after ISPO from the, from day one. Then in the second year, we went to the US. We established our US presence. In the third year, we went to Japan. And so we built very much on with a global team and with a global DNA. And so we built kind of That opportunity to grow into different markets almost one by one and have this hockey stick moment coming your way eve…

AI assessment note: “after three years, we, we were seeing in our small home market, really that, that hockey stick moment”

Q That is such a cool moment. Can I ask, when you think about like, you know, the movement into clothing as well, that seems like a big decision too, because you go from like a beloved footwear brand to, Hey, we're going to do clothing as well. When was that decision and why did you decide to make that decision?

A It was quite, uh, quite as many things add on. It was quite organic. So at some point we just said, Hey, we hate to run in, uh, gear from other brands. And, uh, and so Tilo and I started to work on a first, a little capsule collection of apparel, just a few pieces, 10 pieces, the perfect running short, The, the perfect t-shirt, the perfect lightweight jacket. And so we presented that internally and then we decided that we start selling that. And I think it's a, it's a, it's a natural progression for a sports brand. Um, now we're much more serious about that because we feel if you're building a global brand, you want to happen on the full body and you will also want to bring the Capability of what your technology and innovation team can do to the full body. And so the same team that brought you the on shoe, um, is also bringing you apparel.

AI assessment note: “we hate to run in, uh, gear from other brands”

Q I love that. It's so lovely to hear. I do. We mentioned kind of the increasing brand profile before we do a quick fire. I wanted to ask brand is thrown around a lot, David, but ON has a truly great brand, which is rare. What does brand mean to you in terms of what brand is?

A I think a brand in the core is a community and an idea. And for us, ON has always been not just about equipment for better performance of your body, but we feel running, but also hiking, other sports are so much, not just about doing something for your body, but they're doing something very much for your mind as well. Uh, I mean, I'm sure Harry then The last time when you went out for a run when it was raining. You probably, you probably have this few seconds of hesitation. Should I go, but you never coming back from Iran saying, Hey, I regret it because it was bad weather because you're always coming back refreshed a little bit more optimistic, probably a new idea, probably even a new small or even a big dream. And so that's part of that, uh, that claim that, that we use dream on. So it's very much And, and, and, and condensation of our mission, which is to ignite human spirit through movement. So we feel movement, running, and the spirit are very much connected.

AI assessment note: “I think a brand in the core is a community and an idea.”

Q of experience respectfully in the shoe making business. When you think about the benefits of naivety, often we're told about entrepreneurs, it's good to be naive. But then bluntly, if you were starting another shoe business today, I'm sure you would know a lot more and be a lot more efficient in the way that you started it. How do you think about the benefits of naivety when starting businesses?

A You know, I think what we, what we lacked in, in knowing, uh, knowing about producing shoes and selling shoes, we probably brought some different background to the table. So Casper and I spent a lot of time in, in marketing and in advertising. I spent a lot of time in, uh, in one of the leading design companies, Vitra. I had built, um, just out of university, a digital marketing agency, one of the first ones. And so we brought Olivier, the amazing athlete who has a direct connection from his big toe to his brain. And so if you give him a shoe, he knows exactly what has to be tuned. And so we brought an eclectic Casper who, um, who, who, who, who, who wrote his thesis about sports marketing. So we brought a lot of, um, different, an eclectic mix to the table. And sometimes it's probably good to have an eclectic mix, but then also that naivete that you mentioning, because if you know what's coming your way, you probably don't, we wouldn't have started in the first place.

AI assessment note: “if you know what's coming your way, you probably don't, we wouldn't have started”

Q I'm sure you would have done David. Um, my question to you is like, when you think about like going back to those one by one regional stores, oh, we're in the same place. What was the inflection point where it really started to take off? What was that moment where it went from one to one to boom?

A You know, it, it needed quite a bit of perseverance and, and, and patience as well. So our, Experience was the first two, three years in a, in a market are hard because you, if you really want to build that out of together with athletes and out of core running, you seed a lot. You convince a lot of very dedicated, small retailers. You were, you talk to people, you, um, get influence in, uh, in, in the running community. You do a lot of Test runs. And so until you hit a certain scale, it probably takes two to three years. And then after three years, we, we were seeing in our small home market, really that, that hockey stick moment where it's taking off. Um, fortunately we had decided at the very beginning, um, that we're coming from a very small market. Switzerland is seven million people. So that's a, that's a greater New York area, or probably a greater Yeah. And so there's no option to build a global sports brand out of Switzerland. And so we were pretty much a global company from the start. So in the, we were in Europe after ISPO from the, from day one. Then in the second year, we went to the US. We established our US presence. In the third year, we went to Japan. And so we built very much on with a global team and with a global DNA. And so we built kind of That opportunity to grow into different markets almost one by one and have this hockey stick moment coming your way eve…

AI assessment note: “after three years, we, we were seeing in our small home market, really that, that hockey stick moment”

Q That is such a cool moment. Can I ask, when you think about like, you know, the movement into clothing as well, that seems like a big decision too, because you go from like a beloved footwear brand to, Hey, we're going to do clothing as well. When was that decision and why did you decide to make that decision?

A It was quite, uh, quite as many things add on. It was quite organic. So at some point we just said, Hey, we hate to run in, uh, gear from other brands. And, uh, and so Tilo and I started to work on a first, a little capsule collection of apparel, just a few pieces, 10 pieces, the perfect running short, The, the perfect t-shirt, the perfect lightweight jacket. And so we presented that internally and then we decided that we start selling that. And I think it's a, it's a, it's a natural progression for a sports brand. Um, now we're much more serious about that because we feel if you're building a global brand, you want to happen on the full body and you will also want to bring the Capability of what your technology and innovation team can do to the full body. And so the same team that brought you the on shoe, um, is also bringing you apparel.

AI assessment note: “we just said, Hey, we hate to run in, uh, gear from other brands.”

Q How impactful was it, Roger wearing it for the brand? Like, I think he's obviously, and you'll agree, done a lot for the brand. Blake, was it a boom moment with Roger coming on board?

A Yes, definitely. I mean, um, when we launched, so I remember we launched, um, our collaboration with a big run through Central Park in, in New York. And Of course we were on morning shows. Um, uh, we were doing the whole tour and it was exploding now. Um, so Roger, um, did, uh, an amazing, contributed in a very significant way to the, to the, to the awareness for the, for the brand. And of course also there are millions and millions of people who love Roger. So one of the most, Um, loved sports stars probably on the planet. And so that did a lot for Ron. At the same time, Roger is also very committed to build our second sport tennis with us, but Roger is also very much interested in the core running space. So we also talk a lot about next running shoe innovation. So it's really, we, we work together as co-entrepreneurs.

AI assessment note: “Yes, definitely... contributed in a very significant way to the awareness for the brand.”

Q I love that. It's so lovely to hear. I do. We mentioned kind of the increasing brand profile before we do a quick fire. I wanted to ask brand is thrown around a lot, David, but ON has a truly great brand, which is rare. What does brand mean to you in terms of what brand is?

A I think a brand in the core is a community and an idea. And for us, ON has always been not just about equipment for better performance of your body, but we feel running, but also hiking, other sports are so much, not just about doing something for your body, but they're doing something very much for your mind as well. Uh, I mean, I'm sure Harry then The last time when you went out for a run when it was raining. You probably, you probably have this few seconds of hesitation. Should I go, but you never coming back from Iran saying, Hey, I regret it because it was bad weather because you're always coming back refreshed a little bit more optimistic, probably a new idea, probably even a new small or even a big dream. And so that's part of that, uh, that claim that, that we use dream on. So it's very much And, and, and, and condensation of our mission, which is to ignite human spirit through movement. So we feel movement, running, and the spirit are very much connected.

AI assessment note: “I think a brand in the core is a community and an idea.”

Q You've gone through an incredible brand journey. What do you know now about brand that you wish you had known back in 2009 at the very beginning?

A We built the brand very much as a grassroots movement because we, we had to, so we, uh, had very Humble and nimble beginnings and that also we continue to do that. So we try always to operate nimble probably, um, back then, uh, it probably waited a little bit long until we started to invest into on being, um, bigger out there and being also having this cultural relevance. And so the moment where we see you switch from building a grassroot level brand, To then also building broader brand awareness. That's something that we probably should have started a little bit earlier. Now, Roger definitely helped and we're very much working on bringing big moments to our community to also let the world know, um, what we're trying to do.

AI assessment note: “building broader brand awareness. That's something that we probably should have started a little bit earlier.”

Q You've gone through an incredible brand journey. What do you know now about brand that you wish you had known back in 2009 at the very beginning?

A We built the brand very much as a grassroots movement because we, we had to, so we, uh, had very Humble and nimble beginnings and that also we continue to do that. So we try always to operate nimble probably, um, back then, uh, it probably waited a little bit long until we started to invest into on being, um, bigger out there and being also having this cultural relevance. And so the moment where we see you switch from building a grassroot level brand, To then also building broader brand awareness. That's something that we probably should have started a little bit earlier. Now, Roger definitely helped and we're very much working on bringing big moments to our community to also let the world know, um, what we're trying to do.

AI assessment note: “building broader brand awareness. That's something that we probably should have started a little bit earlier.”

Q What a coincidence. And your size, it's It's just here, baby. Um, my, my question is, you know, the brand is so synonymous with the design in particular. When you look back at the early design and kind of, you know, presenting that to retailers, expos, was that difficult in terms of customer education, telling them about this fundamentally new shoe that looked so different?

A No, it's interesting. Um, because part of the DNA of on, I mean, Biggest part of the DNA of ON is of course running and, um, and performance and this innovation company, but from the very beginning, uh, design was part of the DNA because that's, that's part of, um, of my background and also of Thilo's background, our head of design who was with us even before we started the company. And, uh, um, we had, we had asked Thilo because he's a product designer and Not a, not a shoe designer. He had never designed a shoe. And so we felt that's a good fit with us because we also never were in the shoe business. So let's completely break conventions. And so what we did is this outsole, which is very much visual technology. So if you see the shoe in a, in a shoe wall, you gravitate to that. So that's definitely a win. But then we also decided to do something unconventional in the industry. Let's forget about all the decoration and the, you know, kind of Of the lines and the shiny things on the shoe to, to yell I'm a performance product, but let's completely strip it down. Let's do form follows function where we make it very minimal and very much in a, in a Swiss design tradition. And at the beginning people told us, don't do that, that you need the running shoe bling because that's, that's gonna put you at a disadvantage and we did it anyhow. And so at first it probably was almost a littl…

AI assessment note: “at first it probably was almost a little bit an inhibitor”

Q What have been your biggest lessons in what it takes to make retail work so well?

A You know, um, probably the biggest question that we had when we developed the retail concept is why would you go back to a shop to buy shoes and then also apparel? Why would you not just do that on a website? And we realized that often if you go to a sports store that you don't spend so much time with actually the people of the brand and of the store. Because it's about, Hey, what, what is your size? And then somebody disappears for a five minutes somewhere in a locker room, uh, or in a, in a, in a, in a, in a, in a, in the back room and comes back with the size and then it's probably not the right size. And then this person disappears for another 10 minutes. And then after 20 minutes, you're there with a lot of boxes and, uh, and it's the first time that you speak to each other. And so our thought process was how can you reinvent that? That's again. Add on. We always try to do things a little bit differently. And so we created a huge piece, which we call the archive and you see every shoe of on, on that big archive. It's landed like, uh, Like, uh, an object from outer space in that, uh, in that space. And then there's the magic move, which is with a secret button, you can open this archive and you pull out the drawer. And then of each of the shoes, you have one size, uh, all the sizes of that shoe. So within seconds, that shoe is on your feet. And then if you decide that this …

AI assessment note: “things like that, how can you innovate on retail? Very important for us”

Q Final one before a quick fire, but you mentioned that kind of the scrolling, you mentioned the breathing light. How do you retain simplicity, simplicity in products with expanding features, with more breathability, with lighter weight, with, with, with why, how do you retain simplicity with time and with expanding features?

A Hey, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a big challenge as you grow. Um, we as founders probably spend 40, 50 days per year in the lab and together with an amazing team, we're trying to always shave off again as well. So how can we, first of all, you try to make it more features, bigger, better, and then how do you can, how can you simplify down again? Because I feel that simplicity creates amazing products. I give you one example from the early days of on. So when, um, we created the cloud, uh, still one of our most known Jews, um, An amazing engineer called Tilo, who's actually our head of design asked, Hey, couldn't we do a special lacing system that you don't have to tie? It's a speed lacing. And he invented the speed lacing system and it's so simple and people love it. And that's a big part of the success of the cloud.

AI assessment note: “we as founders probably spend 40, 50 days per year in the lab”