The Exchanges

Q ask you, we, we mentioned kind of about maintenance of brands. Um, it feels like I'm in London, but like, it feels like in London, I don't know, whatever that time period that was, 10 years ago, Pete, And then it went through like a, bluntly a deceleration period in terms of growth of Ugg, and it wasn't as cool as it was. Where did it go off track there?

A Over distribution. So it was, you know, we were selling basically the same items. So the classic tall boot, you know, the original boot plus a couple iterations of it, but basically one boot to every account that asked. And so when you walk down, you know, high street, Regent Street, Oxford Street, and you looked in the windows , everybody had the same product, and there was no differentiation, and so next thing you know, you know, then it also kind of became a chav boot, right? It was seen as lower market because everybody had it, it was off price, you could get it anywhere, and we lost the specialness of the brand, and it took us five years in the UK and Europe to get that back.

AI assessment note: “Over distribution. So it was, you know, we were selling basically the same items.”

Q Can I ask you in terms of like working with retailers and wholesalers, what's the biggest challenge? Is it like brand maintenance given the fact you don't own that experience? What are your biggest lessons in terms of challenges in working with those retailers and wholesalers?

A I think our biggest challenge is, is Um, finding partners that can represent and, and showcase the brand in a way that we feel is right for the brand. So what do I mean by that? So, you know, if you went into a multi brand environment and you saw Hoka sitting on a shelf with no signage and just a bunch of shoes next to, you know, a bunch of other brands, that's not, that's not good enough for us. You know, if you want our brand, we want to make sure that you're presenting it with storytelling, the right signage, the right fixturing. Ideally, we'd love, you know, little mini shop and shops where you can fully tell the extent of the brand. And, you know, we got in a lot of trouble back in the days with UGG because we just sold our basic product to everybody and just let them do what they wanted with it. And that worked for a while, but then it really hurt the brand. And so for Hoka, it's such a rich story that we feel needs to be telling the technology told and the technology is so unique that We don't want to just have it sitting on a shelf with no level of service or storytelling to go with it.

AI assessment note: “our biggest challenge is, is Um, finding partners that can represent and, and showcase”

Q Do all great brands start niche. When we look at Hoka, it's for ultras and for supreme runners. When we look at Ugg, it's for, you know, surfers. When we look at like, you know, A lot of like, I mean, geez, like Oakley sunglasses, you know, hardcore cricketers and, um, cyclists, um, are great bands, brands built in niches?

A I think so. I think they're, they're a niche consumer need that has been met yet, so to speak, or they're solving for a problem that, um, is meaningful to consumers. I think that's where all great brands start. I mean, if you look at Teva, when we bought Teva, that was the first sports sandal because river, you know, guides in the Grand Canyon were frustrated with their flip-flops falling off their feet. So they invented straps to put on the sandal and that was Teva. And that was for a very, very specific consumer at the time. But, you know, look at it now it's on runways. We just did a collab with Chloe. I mean, if you look at all the other brands, Birkenstock, Crocs, you know, most of them start with a real niche consumer and But something that's super important for that consumer.

AI assessment note: “I think so. I think that's where all great brands start.”

Q Yeah, I'm sure it's not easy. On the re-acceleration, talk to me about how one approaches that. If we start on product, is it keep same product? Is it innovate? Is it more SKUs, less SKUs?

A When, um, We brought in a new president around 16, 17 for the brand. And my remit to that person was just disrupt this brand. Like you need to change people's perceptions of the brand. And I didn't have an idea of what that was going to be, but it was basically like, Get people to notice UGG in a new, different way. And so, um, Andrea, who was the president at the time, you know, really ran with it and pushed the fashion envelope of it, pushed creativity, you know, brought in a lot of color materials, different influences we partnered with. And next thing you know, it was like, oh, there's something happening at UGG. Like there's something exciting going on with that brand. And then we started introducing, you know, iterations of the classics, new product, That still had some of the DNA of the original brand. And then so, you know, it just started changing people's perception. And at that time we were cleaning up the marketplace to be able to go back out with the right people in the right locations with the right inventory. And now, um, you know, we have a new president of the brand, Ann, who's been here just over a year, and it's all about focus. We're reducing SKUs. We're innovating off the classic in really exciting ways. We're leveraging, you know, some of the best influencers in the world. There's so much excitement about the brand one, but then we have so many best sellin…

AI assessment note: “We're reducing SKUs. We're innovating off the classic in really exciting ways.”

Q should ask about Asian expansion. I'm intrigued by this. Uh, maybe it's applied to Hoka, maybe it's applied to Ugg. Don't fucking know, to be honest, but I want to ask it. I'm intrigued when we talk about growth of markets, I think of Asia in particular here. How does Asian expansion factor into the growth story, and how do you think about it given so many others have struggled?

A Asia has some of the best athletes in the world as far as trail running and road running, and so, you know, early on we developed what we called a playbook for Hoka to go to market with, and it really was be meaningful and important to the best athletes in those sports in your market. So early days in Japan, We focused on, you know, bidding, being on shoes worn at marathons and trail races and, and cultivating those athletes and working only with the run specialty channel. We couldn't find our product anywhere else. And that was, that was our success in the U S is really kill it in the run specialty channel and the core outdoor channel. And then you can move out beyond that. So that was the formula we took to Asia. We've taken that to China. We have fantastic distributor partners in Thailand, Indonesia, Philippines, Australia, Korea.

AI assessment note: “early on we developed what we called a playbook for Hoka to go to market”

Q the founder of Allbirds on the show, Joey's Willinger, and I said this to him, and he said, well, you know, the average US consumer has eight pairs of shoes. I said, wow, well, eight pairs that they buy every year. I said, well, that's a lot. Uh, my mother has about 30, so, you know, they must be shrinking. Um, how loyal is the average consumer to running shoes?

A Well, traditionally, they're very loyal, you know, and it's hard to get a consumer that was running in ASICs for 10 years or Saucony for 10 years to switch brands. I think that's changing dramatically. I think people are open to trying different brands now. And obviously, you know, with Hoka and on, uh, disrupting the industry, so to speak, you have a lot more people venturing on and trying them out just because they are hearing about it. But what we're finding is our fans of Hoka are diehard lifelong fans. I mean, every time I travel and I'm wearing Hoka, I hear stories from people. I have 10 pairs in my closet. I, you know, I can't wait for the next one to come out. It's, I always liken this brand to Patagonia, you know, and I, maybe I'm personalizing that, but I always just was obsessed with Patagonia and wanted more of their product and their brand. I think people feel that way about Hoka.

AI assessment note: “Well, traditionally, they're very loyal, you know, and it's hard to get a consumer”

Q No, I, I get you totally. So what did you do right with Ugg? It started off as like a surfer brand.

A Yeah, and you know, I think the team, probably in the early 2000, Made the pivot to positioning it as a kind of fashion staple and a, and a, you know, a, a cold weather staple. Right. And that's where, um, the team started, you know, selling to Nordstrom's and some fashion accounts. You started seeing it showing up on celebrities in Southern California. And then the real turning point was when Oprah put it on, you know, her, uh, Her list of favorite things for that year. I forget what year that was. I should know this, but that was when it really made the, the switch from a functional boot for surfers to a fashion icon. And that just opened up a whole nother world of opportunity for, uh, and total market time. And we think about it.

AI assessment note: “Made the pivot to positioning it as a kind of fashion staple”

Q I'm intrigued when we say about like maintain it, you know, in the UK in particular, there were huge, huge love for Abercrombie and Hollister about 10 years ago, and then just absolute obliteration of both brands. Yeah. You think intensely about brand, Dave. Is there anything that you think will take away from the brand build and brand destruction there?

A Luxury in a way has its own built-in defense mechanism where there's a certain type of consumer That can afford that product. And they're the ones that are wearing it around town, you know, and where it's where you're seeing it. So it kind of stays up in that stratosphere because a lot of people it's unattainable, right? From a price point. But when you look at an Abercrombie or American Eagle, even Gap, you know, when I was there, I remember I had a conversation at the Gap one time, um, over our G our logo Gap sweatshirt. And the CEO Mickey at the time was pissed off because he was like, I see that on reality shows and, you know, talk shows and people in the audience. He's like, it's starting to show up everywhere and on consumers that, you know, aren't good for the brand, so to speak.

AI assessment note: “Luxury in a way has its own built-in defense mechanism”

Q Why don't you buy Strava? If you think about the world that you do not currently own, it's the technology world. It's the online world. We power your feet. Now we power your community. Yeah.

A You know, I had conversations with the founders there a couple of times, um, not in that context, but just getting to know them and, you know, our brands partnering. And, you know, I know for them, they had really, I don't think they had any ambitions of being acquired and wanted to go down their path because they saw, you know, real great opportunity. And we figured it's better to partner with them versus acquire them. We're not a technology company. You know, you've seen folks like Under Armour and Lululemon acquire technologies. It's hard to do and And keep it going and do it right. And I think we're better off just partnering with brands like that, um, versus making major acquisitions.

AI assessment note: “we figured it's better to partner with them versus acquire them. We're not a technology company.”

Q Why are all DTC companies getting hammered, Dave?

A You know, we've looked at a lot of them, you know, and that, when that was really, you know, a happening sector, you know, we got caught up in it too. Like, hey, we need a DTC brand. How can we learn from them, et cetera. But what you find out after a while is the DTC model is hard to keep Sustained because you're spending so much on marketing, you know, 25%, 30% of your revenue, you're putting back into marketing to fuel the sales. The minute you pull that marketing away to make profit, your sales lines drops like a rock. And if you don't have wholesale, if you don't have other sources of revenue, your e-com site quickly goes from high growth, you know, Decent profit, low single digits if you're lucky, a lot of times negative to just You know, dropping like a rock from both top line and bottom line. What people didn't appreciate at first is if you take away that marketing spend, will the brand still stay on a positive growth trajectory? And what a lot of companies are finding now is that that's, that's not the case, um, when you pull away that marketing. So I think it's a flaw in the model, unless you just have a brand that also is in wholesale, has the margin structure to be successful at wholesale and is important enough on its own To sustain the growth versus just, you know, digital marketing spend.

AI assessment note: “DTC model is hard to keep Sustained because you're spending so much on marketing”

Q the founder of Allbirds on the show, Joey's Willinger, and I said this to him, and he said, well, you know, the average US consumer has eight pairs of shoes. I said, wow, well, eight pairs that they buy every year. I said, well, that's a lot. Uh, my mother has about 30, so, you know, they must be shrinking. Um, how loyal is the average consumer to running shoes?

A Well, traditionally, they're very loyal, you know, and it's hard to get a consumer that was running in ASICs for 10 years or Saucony for 10 years to switch brands. I think that's changing dramatically. I think people are open to trying different brands now. And obviously, you know, with Hoka and on, uh, disrupting the industry, so to speak, you have a lot more people venturing on and trying them out just because they are hearing about it. But what we're finding is our fans of Hoka are diehard lifelong fans. I mean, every time I travel and I'm wearing Hoka, I hear stories from people. I have 10 pairs in my closet. I, you know, I can't wait for the next one to come out. It's, I always liken this brand to Patagonia, you know, and I, maybe I'm personalizing that, but I always just was obsessed with Patagonia and wanted more of their product and their brand. I think people feel that way about Hoka.

AI assessment note: “traditionally, they're very loyal, you know, and it's hard to get a consumer”

Q I mean, for sure. Uh, Matt, my question to you is, we had a little chat, and you said, um, that you maybe didn't know what you wanted to do early in your career in terms of it starting at 28, but when you were a child, what did you want to do when you grew up?

A Oh man, you know, I don't know that I had one thing. I remember early on thinking I wanted to be a race car driver. Like, I was really into, you know, race cars as a kid and stuff, but I don't think that was a serious. Looking back on it now, I always did have a creative side to me, and I was always building things and creating things, um, And then when I got into, like, and a little bit older and heading into high school, I started really paying attention to music and fashion, and then I started my own magazine in, in, uh, college around punk music and, and, uh, was really into, like, what people were wearing, and then that just kind of progressed, but I had no idea that I could build a career out of any of these things, and so they were just kind of side hobbies that I, you know, I knew I liked, but I didn't think I could build a career out of them, and that didn't happen until my mid-twenties, where I realized, hey, I actually can, can focus on this stuff and make, make a living out of it.

AI assessment note: “I remember early on thinking I wanted to be a race car driver.”

Q It's right. Can you take me to that? Actually, that's too interesting. Cause he bought it and it was like tiny. It was a small acquisition. I can't remember what it was like two or three million.

A A couple million dollars, you know? And, and the reason was our, our CEO at the time unheld and, you know, he was a former runner and he felt like we needed an athletic brand in our portfolio, which is true. But when he showed up with that and we, we saw this, this, you know, crazy looking moon boot, We were all like, uh, is this the, is this the performance brand we're talking about? But I give, you know, the teams a lot of credit in the early days. They were able to put that on people's feet that could really put it to the test. And those are hardcore ultra runners. And, you know, the feedback that came back was amazing. And it was like, I don't know what's in this thing. It's ugly as hell, but man, it really performs. And so we knew we had something there that Um, we could build off because great brands are meaningful and important to their consumer. And it's almost, you want to build a brand that your consumers can't live without. And so when we started really digging into the technology, uh, and the performance of Hoka and in evolving the design, we were able to get more shoes on more core hardcore athletes feet. And that's how it all really kind of started. It was word of mouth within a very small niche industry, uh, That this is the greatest innovation in our lifetime in, in running. And, and we became really important to the Run Specialty Channel, and we kind of built i…

AI assessment note: “when he showed up with that and we saw this crazy looking moon boot”

Q When you say losers, how do you Not lose the specialness of the brand, but increase adoption, increase usage, because you're not going to do a Chanel or a Patek Philippe and limit supply significantly. So how do you do that without making it cheap, bluntly?

A What we ended up doing, and this is in the US and in Europe, is pulling back and, you know, and making it almost kind of disappear in the eyes of the consumer for a while. It was just an average boot at that At the time, it was everywhere. It was nothing special. People were then making fun of it about, you know, basic bitch, right? And like, you know, pumpkin spice lattes and chav consumers, and it was like, people made fun of it. So we had to pull it all back, retrench, and then selectively start going back out to the right consumers, make sure the presentation was right, working with the right influences to reposition it in a new way. And then innovate.

AI assessment note: “pulling back... retrench, and then selectively start going back out to the right consumers”

Q What do you mean they worry more about what you think about them? Sorry.

A You know, in my, my career early in the days at Gap, you know, and, and even at other companies I was at a little bit, but it was mostly like, Hey, we're a certain mold. You have to dress a certain way. If you're going to get ahead, You know, you have to have these perfect presentations, you know, and if there was any bad comments from somebody in the company, you know, you heard about it immediately, and so-and-so didn't like this when you did that. It's just like, you're always walking on eggshells, and you were so nervous about being judged that you couldn't focus on your job. That's what I talk about when I'm just saying, hey, just come be yourself. Everybody's welcome. Do your thing, but do hard, hard work.

AI assessment note: “you were so nervous about being judged that you couldn't focus on your job”

Q Is there a case of being careful not to try and push channels where your margin is higher? Obviously when you're in like wholesale, your margin is going to be lower than when you're doing D to C through the Hoka website. Yeah. Is there a challenge of like You, you skewing where you prefer to go because of the margin. And how do you think about that?

A Yeah, that's a great question. You know, our DDC channel is our most profitable channel, right? Margin and profit. And so ideally we want as much of our business to go through that channel as we can, because that's best for the bottom line, but you know, you're only going to get so much reach and you have to spend a lot more marketing dollars to, to drive that. And we, you know, our, our, we have tremendous relationships with our wholesale partners and we spend our time working with the ones that we think represent the brand really well. And we say no to more, you know, more accounts than we say yes to. We're really selective, but we need wholesale. We need it. They need us. It creates awareness and, you know, for the, for the brand and it allows people to try product on in real life. And I think a lot of the consumers ultimately come to our DDC channel where we can cultivate that lifetime value as well.

AI assessment note: “ideally we want as much of our business to go through that channel”

Q parkour athlete community, and I thought about it when you said about kind of the winner of the ultra, uh, wearing hokers. How do you think about that? Because you both seem to take that very, we're here for the pros. We're worn by pros. How do you assess that landscape today? And is it only on a new going for the pro down? How do you feel about that?

A Um, no, I mean, that's not unique to Hoker on. I mean, every, you know, performance brand aspires to that same thing. Right. And you can either do it by signing up, you know, top athletes, or you can also do it by being important to every athlete. So I think the formula there is, Hey, yes, we want to be at the podium. We want to, we want to be on the best athletes in the world. But I think one of the most Inspiring things I've ever seen is, you know, from 11 to midnight at the Ironman championships where the last finishers are coming in, you know, some of them have disabilities, some of them are 70 plus and older, and most of those people are wearing Hoka. And that's the difference. Yes, the top 10 people, maybe you'll get one person wearing Hoka, but when you see the everyday athlete choosing Hoka because of how it delivers performance for them and allows them to do things they never thought were possible, that's where the magic is.

AI assessment note: “when you see the everyday athlete choosing Hoka... that's where the magic is.”

Q Can I ask what are your lessons on the importance of a Hero product? When you look at Hoka, Ugg, the other brands you have, how much of a role do Hero products play continuously, do you think?

A I mean, they're massive. I've, I've had the fortune of working at companies that were founded on a hero product, you know, the yellow boot at Timberland, the Chuck Taylor at Converse, right? They just allow you to do so many things because of the scale, the volume, the margin, the consistency of the business. If you don't have that, it's really hard to run a successful, you know, sustainable business. As long as you continue to stay true to what those products did in the first place and why consumers love them, and you iterate off of those in a way that makes sense for the brand and the consumer, you should have a good run, you know, but you cannot underestimate how important those iconic styles are to the overall business. And, you know, I, I've said to our team recently, If you look at, you know, we have multi brands at Decker's, right? Five brands all over the world.

AI assessment note: “they're massive. I've, I've had the fortune of working at companies”

Q Why don't you buy Strava? If you think about the world that you do not currently own, it's the technology world. It's the online world. We power your feet. Now we power your community. Yeah.

A You know, I had conversations with the founders there a couple of times, um, not in that context, but just getting to know them and, you know, our brands partnering. And, you know, I know for them, they had really, I don't think they had any ambitions of being acquired and wanted to go down their path because they saw, you know, real great opportunity. And we figured it's better to partner with them versus acquire them. We're not a technology company. You know, you've seen folks like Under Armour and Lululemon acquire technologies. It's hard to do and And keep it going and do it right. And I think we're better off just partnering with brands like that, um, versus making major acquisitions.

AI assessment note: “we figured it's better to partner with them versus acquire them. We're not a technology company.”

Q Unbelievable. No, my question to you is, when we look at, you know, we discussed Hoka, we discussed UGG, two incredible acquisitions, and you know, you mentioned five brands of the portfolio. Why aren't you acquiring more, Dave?

A Yeah, you know, we get asked that question a lot, and we, we talk about it a lot internally, and the best Answer is we don't need to right now. You know, we have such organic growth with Ugg still with Hoka, you know, with our smaller, but you know, healthy Teva brand that we feel we have a path where we could, you know, Add billions onto our, our revenue today over the next five years organically, which is the best way to grow a business because it's built in. The margins are there. It's not disruptive to the company. It's predictable. And the return on, you know, investment is massive versus overpaying for an acquisition that you're in the hole financially from day one. And you're spending the next five, 10 years getting out of it before it pays off.

AI assessment note: “the best Answer is we don't need to right now”

Q Is it hard for you motivating teams when one or two brands crush it? You know, when you have five kids and two get into Harvard and MIT and the others get into community college?

A There's certainly some of that, you know, and, but we spent a lot of time just making sure that brands know their role in their portfolio and, you know, that their, what their intentions are and what, what their purpose is and they focus on that. But I think more than anything else, we, We try to instill this philosophy that if, if, if some brands win and others don't, Decker's is still winning. You're part of Decker's first. You're part of your brand second, so to speak. And so if Decker's is, is winning, you're, there's still something to be excited and believe in. But yeah, there's always that level of, ah, I wish we got more attention, or we got more resources, or.

AI assessment note: “There's certainly some of that, you know, and, but we spent a lot of time”

Q Oh, there's so many things for me to dig into that. I'm going to let you go on Converse and then I'm going to dig into them. Okay. So Converse, what was that?

A Converse was really about, you know, Tuning into who your consumer is and why they love your brand. You know, we, when I went to Congress, we were developing the first retail concept and we spent a lot of time, you know, months and a lot of money spending time with consumers, understanding what it is they loved about our brand. Once we figured that out, it just unleashed this whole opportunity of connection with our consumer. It was all around the idea of unleashing creativity. Because what we found is that consumers love the brand because it makes them feel creative for whatever reason. People used to write on, you know, their Converse, Chuck Taylors. I used to do that when I was a kid in classrooms. And we just obsessed around the consumer and we created experiences around what those consumers were into and why they love the brand. And I think, so the biggest thing I learned there was really just, you have to obsess the consumer and you have to bring Those experiences to them. Um, but on a, you know, on a leadership side, Timberland and I learned the power of service and giving back to your employees and community. At Converse, I learned that, um, I hate a political environment and it's a very unhealthy way to work in a business.

AI assessment note: “Converse was really about, you know, Tuning into who your consumer is”

Q Is there a case of being careful not to try and push channels where your margin is higher? Obviously when you're in like wholesale, your margin is going to be lower than when you're doing D to C through the Hoka website. Yeah. Is there a challenge of like You, you skewing where you prefer to go because of the margin. And how do you think about that?

A Yeah, that's a great question. You know, our DDC channel is our most profitable channel, right? Margin and profit. And so ideally we want as much of our business to go through that channel as we can, because that's best for the bottom line, but you know, you're only going to get so much reach and you have to spend a lot more marketing dollars to, to drive that. And we, you know, our, our, we have tremendous relationships with our wholesale partners and we spend our time working with the ones that we think represent the brand really well. And we say no to more, you know, more accounts than we say yes to. We're really selective, but we need wholesale. We need it. They need us. It creates awareness and, you know, for the, for the brand and it allows people to try product on in real life. And I think a lot of the consumers ultimately come to our DDC channel where we can cultivate that lifetime value as well.

AI assessment note: “ideally we want as much of our business to go through that channel... but”

Q When you say losers, how do you Not lose the specialness of the brand, but increase adoption, increase usage, because you're not going to do a Chanel or a Patek Philippe and limit supply significantly. So how do you do that without making it cheap, bluntly?

A What we ended up doing, and this is in the US and in Europe, is pulling back and, you know, and making it almost kind of disappear in the eyes of the consumer for a while. It was just an average boot at that At the time, it was everywhere. It was nothing special. People were then making fun of it about, you know, basic bitch, right? And like, you know, pumpkin spice lattes and chav consumers, and it was like, people made fun of it. So we had to pull it all back, retrench, and then selectively start going back out to the right consumers, make sure the presentation was right, working with the right influences to reposition it in a new way. And then innovate.

AI assessment note: “we had to pull it all back, retrench, and then selectively start going back out”

Q so that makes sense. So, okay. Let's not acquire because we have great assets, which we actually can optimize and make into even better assets. Yeah. Just pushing your strategic thinking here. Why not cut two others? You mentioned poker. You mentioned, uh, the two others, I'm sure probably account for minimal revenue in the grand scheme now compared to the others. Why not cut them and just focus? Yeah.

A We just announced that we're going to, um, you'll look for a buyer for one of our brands to nook. Right. And so we're really placing a bet on Teva. You know, when we look at acquisitions, um, we've looked at, you know, a lot of smaller outdoor brands out there because we feel that's a, that's a category in a space that, uh, has opportunity. And honestly, when we looked at Teva and compared to all these, you know, these brands that we could have potentially purchased, Teva has the best global awareness. It has the best margins. It's, it's an iconic heritage brand. So we just, we're treating that as an internal acquisition. It's a good question. You know, we don't need the smaller brands to be successful. I like them because they're, you know, they have potential. Um, we learn from them. They're great development opportunities for employees. We can test a lot on these brands without making big, you know, mistakes. And you never know, you know, some of these smaller brands could end up being massive, just like Ugg and Hoka.

AI assessment note: “I like them because they're, you know, they have potential. Um, we learn from them.”

Q Can I be so rude? So rude. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Would you blame your parents for that? And the reason I say that is just because, like, I would want my children to know they can do anything, and that that president role they can get if they work hard. Is that their fault?

A I, you know, we were just talking about this the other day with some friends about this. I grew up in New England, you know, which is the part of the country in the U S that's very kind of old school, conservative set in its ways. And, you know, I'm one of the only or few people in my extended family that have left New England and, you know, pursued something beyond what was available to me there. And so I think, I do think that there is a mentality in my parents that was like, you can't do that. Like, That's, that's crazy, you know. So I, I wouldn't blame them for it, but I think that the, the small thinking was part of my family culture, for sure.

AI assessment note: “I wouldn't blame them for it, but I think that the, the small thinking”

Q How do you prevent political environments from happening? That it's kind of so innate in humans that we want more power. Often that comes with competition. How do you prevent them happening?

A You can't flip a switch. And I tell people at Decker's all the time. The reason I'm at Decker's is I'm trying to get away from companies that are political and cutthroat, competitive and siloed. And I just want to come and work to some, at a company that I just feel comfortable being myself at. And do my own thing every day. And I want everybody in the company to feel that same way. So starts at the top, you know, you got to show up in your authentic way and just be yourself much like, you know, you are on the podcast here and, and then allowing others to do it. But you also have to be really, really critical on who you hire and spend a lot of time on who you kind of let into the company. And I, I kind of consider myself the bouncer, uh, of the company and say, you know, you can come in and join the club. Because we think you'll fit in and be additive to our culture and hey, sorry, you know, we're not for you.

AI assessment note: “starts at the top... you also have to be really, really critical on who you hire”

Q Dave, what have been some of your biggest hiring mistakes? So like for me, as an example, I've often looked, especially as a young founder, looked at a great logo and gone, they must be brilliant. And actually they weren't a fit. What are some of your biggest hiring mistakes?

A You know, I think you get caught up in their experience versus their values. I think that's the biggest thing, and I've hired a few people over my course of my career that I was just influenced by others that really thought they were, you know, the best candidate, and I kind of went along with it, versus really, you know, putting my foot down and saying, hey, I just have a funny sense about this person, or these are red flags for me. I just need, and I've learned, I got to be firmer in my convictions and my beliefs about How this person is going to add or detract from our culture separately from, hey, they have the level of experience that we're looking for.

AI assessment note: “I think you get caught up in their experience versus their values.”

Q It's right. Can you take me to that? Actually, that's too interesting. Cause he bought it and it was like tiny. It was a small acquisition. I can't remember what it was like two or three million.

A A couple million dollars, you know? And, and the reason was our, our CEO at the time unheld and, you know, he was a former runner and he felt like we needed an athletic brand in our portfolio, which is true. But when he showed up with that and we, we saw this, this, you know, crazy looking moon boot, We were all like, uh, is this the, is this the performance brand we're talking about? But I give, you know, the teams a lot of credit in the early days. They were able to put that on people's feet that could really put it to the test. And those are hardcore ultra runners. And, you know, the feedback that came back was amazing. And it was like, I don't know what's in this thing. It's ugly as hell, but man, it really performs. And so we knew we had something there that Um, we could build off because great brands are meaningful and important to their consumer. And it's almost, you want to build a brand that your consumers can't live without. And so when we started really digging into the technology, uh, and the performance of Hoka and in evolving the design, we were able to get more shoes on more core hardcore athletes feet. And that's how it all really kind of started. It was word of mouth within a very small niche industry, uh, That this is the greatest innovation in our lifetime in, in running. And, and we became really important to the Run Specialty Channel, and we kind of built i…

AI assessment note: “A couple million dollars, you know? And, and the reason was our, our CEO”

Q How do you do that, Dave? Do what? Distribution. Build brand love. Build seeds of community.

A You got to start with the core runners and the run specialty channels. You know, if you are an athlete or you're a runner and you go into a running store, best hope is that the salesperson on the floor pulls your shoe out of the back room and says to the consumer, you need to try this on. That's where it all came down to for us is The salespeople started recommending Hoka to people because of the way it performed. That's where it's all. That's where it happens. And then it just kind of builds from there. But if you have to win market share in that channel and be important in that channel before you can expand out. And, you know, I think with our technology and our performance, we've been able to do that.

AI assessment note: “You got to start with the core runners and the run specialty channels.”