The Exchanges

Q What do you believe that others around you maybe disagree with?

A I think I believe in storytelling as an incredible source of revenue in terms of film, television, theatre. And I think if you, you know, in a way you hinted at it, they won't necessarily be the high growth You know, of gaming or creator economy that it could do. But I believe fundamentally, if you find the right things, you can make a lot of money in that area. I mean, look at, look at Barbie in the last few weeks, 1.6 billion and growing. So I, I really believe that, you know, it's about hits and stars and it's hard, but I think the idea that you can't still make a lot of money from high quality, well judged, long form storytelling is not correct. It's not all going to be about TikTok.

AI assessment note: “I think I believe in storytelling as an incredible source of revenue”

Q What do you believe that others around you maybe disagree with?

A I think I believe in storytelling as an incredible source of revenue in terms of film, television, theatre. And I think if you, you know, in a way you hinted at it, they won't necessarily be the high growth You know, of gaming or creator economy that it could do. But I believe fundamentally, if you find the right things, you can make a lot of money in that area. I mean, look at, look at Barbie in the last few weeks, 1.6 billion and growing. So I, I really believe that, you know, it's about hits and stars and it's hard, but I think the idea that you can't still make a lot of money from high quality, well judged, long form storytelling is not correct. It's not all going to be about TikTok.

AI assessment note: “the idea that you can't still make a lot of money from high quality”

Q Can I ask you, does it also impact downside scenario planning? When you think about loss ratios in startups, we both know many startups fail. It's harder for actual physical events, I imagine, to fail. Immersive experiences, theaters, it's hard to fail like a startup would go to zero.

A That's true. I mean, it's, it's certainly true in a theater because you own the real estate. So as a minimum, you've got, you know, it's a grade one. We own the, uh, Len owns the theater or Haymarket. Uh, it's a grade one listed building. It's been on that site for 300 years. It's prime real estate in London. Has to have a specific use, but it's prime real estate in London. So there's no way of going to zero. The, the, the way of maximizing its profitability is to bring in big stars and big shows. So, for example, in January, we have Sarah Snook, you know, Shiv from Succession. She's starring in a play at the Haymarket. She's actually playing all 26 characters in the new version of Dorian Gray. Um, and that's a real sweet spot for me. Big talent and innovation in, in production. That's the way you maximize it, but you're right. You've got something there, um, Which has value. Similarly, if you have the privilege of working with someone like David Hockney, an immersive show with David Hockney has IP value that we share with him in terms of royalties and license fees, and you can take that show around the world. So you're right. The, the, the, uh, downside scenario case is different.

AI assessment note: “So you're right. The, the, the, uh, downside scenario case is different.”

Q upside to a triple dot. You know, I think triple dot could be a ten billion dollar company in the next five years. If we execute well and right, respectfully, a theatre is not going to be a ten billion dollar business. There is a limit to the value that can accrue in a theatre. How do you think about upside maximisation when investing when there are very different profiles?

A You're, you're a hundred percent right, and it's one of the advantages and actually joys of working for someone that's one person's capital. Because different things will have different types of value. So you're right, Triple Dot, amazing gaming company, amazing founders. I think the sky's the limit, and I think they'll continue to be great at executing. A theater, uh, you get a certain rent a week. You, there's only the same amount of tickets, uh, seats every week. Productions cost a certain amount, you can invest a certain amount in them. But I have, I, I work in a, In a very fortunate place where I work with someone who both likes making money and likes building big businesses, but also has a great love of the arts and a great love of storytelling and a great appreciation of talent. And so there are things we do in the mix at Access, which aren't about profit maximization, but are about smaller profits and also a love of the arts. And I feel extremely fortunate actually to be in that position because I love the arts and it's great to work with someone who Um, is the same.

AI assessment note: “different things will have different types of value”

Q Can I ask you, does it also impact downside scenario planning? When you think about loss ratios in startups, we both know many startups fail. It's harder for actual physical events, I imagine, to fail. Immersive experiences, theaters, it's hard to fail like a startup would go to zero.

A That's true. I mean, it's, it's certainly true in a theater because you own the real estate. So as a minimum, you've got, you know, it's a grade one. We own the, uh, Len owns the theater or Haymarket. Uh, it's a grade one listed building. It's been on that site for 300 years. It's prime real estate in London. Has to have a specific use, but it's prime real estate in London. So there's no way of going to zero. The, the, the way of maximizing its profitability is to bring in big stars and big shows. So, for example, in January, we have Sarah Snook, you know, Shiv from Succession. She's starring in a play at the Haymarket. She's actually playing all 26 characters in the new version of Dorian Gray. Um, and that's a real sweet spot for me. Big talent and innovation in, in production. That's the way you maximize it, but you're right. You've got something there, um, Which has value. Similarly, if you have the privilege of working with someone like David Hockney, an immersive show with David Hockney has IP value that we share with him in terms of royalties and license fees, and you can take that show around the world. So you're right. The, the, the, uh, downside scenario case is different.

AI assessment note: “That's true. I mean, it's, it's certainly true in a theater because you own the real estate.”

Q upside to a triple dot. You know, I think triple dot could be a ten billion dollar company in the next five years. If we execute well and right, respectfully, a theatre is not going to be a ten billion dollar business. There is a limit to the value that can accrue in a theatre. How do you think about upside maximisation when investing when there are very different profiles?

A You're, you're a hundred percent right, and it's one of the advantages and actually joys of working for someone that's one person's capital. Because different things will have different types of value. So you're right, Triple Dot, amazing gaming company, amazing founders. I think the sky's the limit, and I think they'll continue to be great at executing. A theater, uh, you get a certain rent a week. You, there's only the same amount of tickets, uh, seats every week. Productions cost a certain amount, you can invest a certain amount in them. But I have, I, I work in a, In a very fortunate place where I work with someone who both likes making money and likes building big businesses, but also has a great love of the arts and a great love of storytelling and a great appreciation of talent. And so there are things we do in the mix at Access, which aren't about profit maximization, but are about smaller profits and also a love of the arts. And I feel extremely fortunate actually to be in that position because I love the arts and it's great to work with someone who Um, is the same.

AI assessment note: “things we do in the mix at Access, which aren't about profit maximization”

Q Do you know what, Danny? I think it's the British accent to the American audience. It makes a big difference. They put you 10 IQ points higher actually. Tell me, it's a fascinating background that you have and not the usual in terms of starting in the entertainment industry and then moving to investing. How did you make that transition, Danny?

A So my job before working for Access for Lemble Vatnik was running the television division of the BBC. I ran networks, BBC TV networks. I was in charge of production and all the green lighting of content. And I'd been there about eight years. I was ready actually to just to do something different. The way I think about it is I want to work until I'm really old. I think that's what keeps you healthy. So I was about 43, 44. And when I reflected on that, I thought, well, I'm not even halfway through my career if I'm going to work till I'm old. Do I want to be doing the same thing with the same people in the same world, however wonderful and exciting it is, because it is, you know, great. Those jobs are great, and they're very, very fascinating, interesting, and stimulating. Do I want to be doing those for another 25, 3035 years? And I couldn't imagine that. So I left the BBC without deciding what I was going to do next, because I knew I needed some time to really think about it and decompress. Those jobs are very intense. And I went and had some nice meetings on the West Coast and so on, TV businesses and studios and so on. But around that time, Len Blavatnik had approached me. I'd known Len actually through my wife for quite a long time. And the proposition he offered was so much more interesting, so much more diverse, so much more learning and education for myself, so much more r…

AI assessment note: “Len Blavatnik had approached me... the proposition he offered was so much more interesting”

Q Content is king. I get you. I agree. Do you know what I find worrying? Discovery. Yeah, I'm in the content game too. There are some amazing pieces of content that never, ever see much attention. And it's because discovery is like a fundamentally broken thing. How do you think about the problem of discovery of great content in a world of so much content?

A You're a hundred percent right. It's a big, big problem. I mean, I, I've been involved with a one or two projects that went to streaming platforms, very, very high quality projects that just disappeared. Really great work with great talent involved. And that's because there's so much on there. They don't market very much. They trust only on the algorithm to throw things at you. And frankly, I, the quality of those algorithms is I think slightly overrated because it takes some of those streaming platforms, the stuff they offer me as the things they like, like to watch, they don't often offer me something I really want to watch. So I think they're amazing platforms, but actually the quality of the recommendation engines is not as good as I think people hope they would be. And so that problem of discovery is a very, very profound one now.

AI assessment note: “quality of those algorithms is I think slightly overrated”

Q How do you give hard feedback? Well, Akin told me this, he said you're one of the loveliest people, but he's like, ask him how he gives hard feedback in a caring way.

A So I, I think the thing is, if you are generally Good to people. When you say something directly, they really notice. One is the product of the other. That if your, if your temperament is always be shouty or over aggressive, I think people begin to tune you out a bit. Whereas if you, if you're supportive and helpful, it makes, it actually makes it easy when you have to say the tough thing, because it, it's sort of, oh my God, they're saying that now. They must mean it. And I still think you can present that way. You know, you can easily say, listen, I'm I'm going to be very direct with you now, or I'm saying this because I think it's going to help you, and then you say something very directly. But I do think the two come together, that if you are thoughtful generally, that when you have to be very direct and sometimes tough, which I, I can be, you'll notice more because you're, that's not your typical MO.

AI assessment note: “saying this because I think it's going to help you, and then you say something”

Q Can I ask you, eight years at the BBC in the position that you were, there must have been some really big takeaways in terms of how it shaped your operating mindset and how you act today. What would you say a one or two is the biggest?

A It's all about talent. Um, whether that's about a founder of a company or, you know, a presenter on a, on a BBC One or a mainstream network show, the fundamental thing, it's all about talent. It's all about teams. It's all about being honest about what you're not good at and what you need support from other people at. It's all about delegating, doing the things that only you can do. And if you're in a very senior role in a business, and I, you know, I sometimes say this to the CEOs of the, The, uh, companies we invest in. If the thing you're doing on your list is something someone else in the company should be doing, you probably shouldn't be doing it. Because your focus as CEO should be on only on the things only you can do. So I learned lots about management. And I think that's helped me a bit because not all investors have had many decades in management. They come to it in a different route. So I think that's actually something I can bring to it. And I, and I also think those management skills, the timing management gives you Hopefully some emotional intelligence about how to work with people that I think is also very important in, in the way you approach the companies you've invested in.

AI assessment note: “It's all about talent. Um, whether that's about a founder of a company or”

Q Danny, what does the decision making look like, if you don't mind me asking? Is it like a weekly call with an investment committee? Is it you and Len on a call?

A So it really varies depending on the size of the investment. So if it's quite a small investment, then it's something we might, I might talk to Len just about directly, you know, in relative terms. If it's a very large sum of money, what we do is we get together. The, the, the way Len has built access is he has a, uh, you know, quite wide variety. There's wide variety in my area, but there's a even wider variety across the access. Industries group. We have a real estate team and a heavy industries team. We have biotech. We have real estate. Uh, we have some major investments in things like Warner Music and DAZN and Calpine and Lyondale Bazel. So we have a very wide range of, um, small team, but a great range of experience across industries and in investing in general. We help each other. We may not always have the specific industry knowledge, but you know, as we've talked about, you, there's a lot of questions which are true of investing in general. So we try and pressure test ideas together when we meet every week.

AI assessment note: “So it really varies depending on the size of the investment.”

Q Can I ask, in terms of the challenges, I was at eight years at the BBC, there's going to be some challenges. What was the biggest challenge that you faced, do you think?

A I think the biggest challenge is the one that I think about every day now, which is the fragmentation of audiences, fragmentation of entertainment audiences, And the rapid shift to digital consumption of entertainment. You know, you have day to day crises, whether that's around a certain show or anything else, but the biggest challenge, the macro challenge, the most interesting challenges is about that fragmentation and that digital transition. And that's very challenging for a legacy broadcaster like the BBC or like a network in the US, CBS, ABC, when you can see those audiences fracturing and going towards digital consumption and curated consumption. That's the biggest ongoing challenge Both for me then, going back a few years, and I think still for the management of, of broadcasters and TV stations now.

AI assessment note: “I think the biggest challenge is ... the fragmentation of audiences”

Q Content is king. I get you. I agree. Do you know what I find worrying? Discovery. Yeah, I'm in the content game too. There are some amazing pieces of content that never, ever see much attention. And it's because discovery is like a fundamentally broken thing. How do you think about the problem of discovery of great content in a world of so much content?

A You're a hundred percent right. It's a big, big problem. I mean, I, I've been involved with a one or two projects that went to streaming platforms, very, very high quality projects that just disappeared. Really great work with great talent involved. And that's because there's so much on there. They don't market very much. They trust only on the algorithm to throw things at you. And frankly, I, the quality of those algorithms is I think slightly overrated because it takes some of those streaming platforms, the stuff they offer me as the things they like, like to watch, they don't often offer me something I really want to watch. So I think they're amazing platforms, but actually the quality of the recommendation engines is not as good as I think people hope they would be. And so that problem of discovery is a very, very profound one now.

AI assessment note: “actually the quality of the recommendation engines is not as good”

Q How do you give hard feedback? Well, Akin told me this, he said you're one of the loveliest people, but he's like, ask him how he gives hard feedback in a caring way.

A So I, I think the thing is, if you are generally Good to people. When you say something directly, they really notice. One is the product of the other. That if your, if your temperament is always be shouty or over aggressive, I think people begin to tune you out a bit. Whereas if you, if you're supportive and helpful, it makes, it actually makes it easy when you have to say the tough thing, because it, it's sort of, oh my God, they're saying that now. They must mean it. And I still think you can present that way. You know, you can easily say, listen, I'm I'm going to be very direct with you now, or I'm saying this because I think it's going to help you, and then you say something very directly. But I do think the two come together, that if you are thoughtful generally, that when you have to be very direct and sometimes tough, which I, I can be, you'll notice more because you're, that's not your typical MO.

AI assessment note: “if you are generally Good to people. When you say something directly, they really notice.”

Q Why is Broadway more expensive than the West End? I saw this and I, I didn't have any idea why.

A I think a lot of it's cost base, and part of that cost base is union costs. The union costs on many things in New York are higher. But what we're noticing, and we're finding it more and more extreme, is that the cost of financing a play or a musical in the West, London, the West End, could be four times less than financing on Broadway. And That's very problematic. Now you could- But that's purely because of unions and- Unions and other reasons for cost basis and, and, and, and wage structures and everything else. And, and to be honest, someone on Broadway will be able to tell you more than that, but that's, those are, those are at least some of the fundamentals. I think this is really problematic for Broadway because Broadway partly benefits from and exists because of the generosity of some very wealthy people to keep backing a very, very high risk type of investment. And if those investors begin to feel that the risk has just gone too high because the, the capitalization for this musical is now twenty-five million, where three or four years ago it might have been fifteen million, and they think it's gonna take three years to get my money back if that, I think even with the amazing goodwill of those people, those benefactors of Broadway, they're going to begin to think differently about it, and they're going to ask themselves more and more questions about whether they want to b…

AI assessment note: “a lot of it's cost base, and part of that cost base is union costs.”

Q Can I ask, in terms of the challenges, I was at eight years at the BBC, there's going to be some challenges. What was the biggest challenge that you faced, do you think?

A I think the biggest challenge is the one that I think about every day now, which is the fragmentation of audiences, fragmentation of entertainment audiences, And the rapid shift to digital consumption of entertainment. You know, you have day to day crises, whether that's around a certain show or anything else, but the biggest challenge, the macro challenge, the most interesting challenges is about that fragmentation and that digital transition. And that's very challenging for a legacy broadcaster like the BBC or like a network in the US, CBS, ABC, when you can see those audiences fracturing and going towards digital consumption and curated consumption. That's the biggest ongoing challenge Both for me then, going back a few years, and I think still for the management of, of broadcasters and TV stations now.

AI assessment note: “the biggest challenge, the macro challenge, the most interesting challenges is about that fragmentation”

Q Can I ask you, eight years at the BBC in the position that you were, there must have been some really big takeaways in terms of how it shaped your operating mindset and how you act today. What would you say a one or two is the biggest?

A It's all about talent. Um, whether that's about a founder of a company or, you know, a presenter on a, on a BBC One or a mainstream network show, the fundamental thing, it's all about talent. It's all about teams. It's all about being honest about what you're not good at and what you need support from other people at. It's all about delegating, doing the things that only you can do. And if you're in a very senior role in a business, and I, you know, I sometimes say this to the CEOs of the, The, uh, companies we invest in. If the thing you're doing on your list is something someone else in the company should be doing, you probably shouldn't be doing it. Because your focus as CEO should be on only on the things only you can do. So I learned lots about management. And I think that's helped me a bit because not all investors have had many decades in management. They come to it in a different route. So I think that's actually something I can bring to it. And I, and I also think those management skills, the timing management gives you Hopefully some emotional intelligence about how to work with people that I think is also very important in, in the way you approach the companies you've invested in.

AI assessment note: “the fundamental thing, it's all about talent. It's all about teams.”

Q Why is Broadway more expensive than the West End? I saw this and I, I didn't have any idea why.

A I think a lot of it's cost base, and part of that cost base is union costs. The union costs on many things in New York are higher. But what we're noticing, and we're finding it more and more extreme, is that the cost of financing a play or a musical in the West, London, the West End, could be four times less than financing on Broadway. And That's very problematic. Now you could- But that's purely because of unions and- Unions and other reasons for cost basis and, and, and, and wage structures and everything else. And, and to be honest, someone on Broadway will be able to tell you more than that, but that's, those are, those are at least some of the fundamentals. I think this is really problematic for Broadway because Broadway partly benefits from and exists because of the generosity of some very wealthy people to keep backing a very, very high risk type of investment. And if those investors begin to feel that the risk has just gone too high because the, the capitalization for this musical is now twenty-five million, where three or four years ago it might have been fifteen million, and they think it's gonna take three years to get my money back if that, I think even with the amazing goodwill of those people, those benefactors of Broadway, they're going to begin to think differently about it, and they're going to ask themselves more and more questions about whether they want to b…

AI assessment note: “I think a lot of it's cost base, and part of that cost base is union costs.”

Q Do you think BBC, ITV, traditional legacy media, do you think they are more or less valuable in five years if you were to put it back down?

A It just depends on your strategy. I mean, you know, ITV have done a very good job, you know, for global audiences, that's the main commercial channel in the UK. They've done a very good job of building out their production and distribution capabilities, so they're not just reliant on, on, uh, linear television transmission. So I, I really think it depends on strategy, and I'm not someone who really believes you can imagine what's gonna happen in five years at this time, because things are changing so fast. AI, look how AI, what AI has done in just the last few months, once people begin to understand the power of generative AI. I think people tell you with confidence they know what's going on in five years. They're, to me, they're overconfident.

AI assessment note: “I'm not someone who really believes you can imagine what's gonna happen in five years”

Q What does the dislocation mean in terms of that content supply? Does it mean we won't have enough content for six months?

A It sort of depends how long it goes on for. Um, and if you're not, you know, one of our investments, a company called A-Twenty-Four, an independent studio, they, you know, they, they were able to keep making a lot of things. It's really about the studios and those big platforms like Netflix and Amazon. But yeah, there will be a point, a pinch point in the next year to 18 months where there's probably a bit less content around than before. We talked to the beginning of the podcast about maybe there might be too much content around, and Um, you know, a refinement of that might be a good thing. I think it's really gonna depend now on how long the act of strike continues, and if people get back to work quite soon, they may not notice that dislocation. But certainly, you know, if any industry pauses for four months, five months, six months, supply dwindles.

AI assessment note: “there will be a point, a pinch point in the next year to 18 months”

Q I get you. Okay. What's the hardest thing about investing across so many different disciplines?

A Keeping the bar high. Um, the way access is run, it's a lean operation. We try and invest in other companies rather than build a lot of our own infrastructure. Uh, when I arrived, I couldn't quite understand that because, you know, the asset size that That Access Industries has, and Len Blavannick has, is it's a lot of money, um, but it's a smallish team. And it took me a while to understand that, and I think one, it's a business, and Len wants to set the right example. We're lean, and we expect our companies to be lean, but actually what it makes you do is focus on really exciting opportunities rather than just doing lots of things. So it keeps the bar high, you know, focus on big things, not doing lots of things is a kind of important mantra at Access, an important mantra for Len. And so that's how we think about it. So keeping the bar high, bandwidth, making sure you're focusing on the right things, I think, I think that's the biggest challenge.

AI assessment note: “Keeping the bar high, bandwidth, making sure you're focusing on the right things”

Q You mentioned Barbie there. We had Barbie and Oppenheimer in that kind of mammoth weekend. Talk to me first, like, and this may be a little bit unfair on the quickfire, but COVID cinemas, how was that?

A Disastrous for cinema. I mean, utterly disastrous. I mean, Barbie and Oppenheimer were a wonderful moment, but it was actually became quite a frustrating moment because it was the biggest moment since the pandemic where you felt the electricity of cinemas. You felt that moment of an event weekend. You felt people returning in their droves. And then we were in a writer's and actor strike. And the knowledge that there would be some kind of dislocation in content supply for cinema in the future. And so I found it both a joyous moment to see that, but also because of the, the, the labor disputes. And of course, good news is one of them has already been solved. The writer's one looks like there's an agreement. It was also quite a frustrating moment because, you know, I went to LA a couple of weeks later, There was a lot of frustration and disenchantment in LA at that point before the writer's strike certainly was agreed, because everything was stuck. So it was an interesting moment for cinema that, where it was a moment of elation, but also, hmm, we might be stuck again soon. You know, I don't know the ins and outs of the dispute, but I'm very hopeful that the act of strike gets settled soon and people get back to work.

AI assessment note: “Disastrous for cinema. I mean, utterly disastrous.”

Q I get you. Okay. What's the hardest thing about investing across so many different disciplines?

A Keeping the bar high. Um, the way access is run, it's a lean operation. We try and invest in other companies rather than build a lot of our own infrastructure. Uh, when I arrived, I couldn't quite understand that because, you know, the asset size that That Access Industries has, and Len Blavannick has, is it's a lot of money, um, but it's a smallish team. And it took me a while to understand that, and I think one, it's a business, and Len wants to set the right example. We're lean, and we expect our companies to be lean, but actually what it makes you do is focus on really exciting opportunities rather than just doing lots of things. So it keeps the bar high, you know, focus on big things, not doing lots of things is a kind of important mantra at Access, an important mantra for Len. And so that's how we think about it. So keeping the bar high, bandwidth, making sure you're focusing on the right things, I think, I think that's the biggest challenge.

AI assessment note: “Keeping the bar high... bandwidth, making sure you're focusing on the right things”

Q You mentioned Barbie there. We had Barbie and Oppenheimer in that kind of mammoth weekend. Talk to me first, like, and this may be a little bit unfair on the quickfire, but COVID cinemas, how was that?

A Disastrous for cinema. I mean, utterly disastrous. I mean, Barbie and Oppenheimer were a wonderful moment, but it was actually became quite a frustrating moment because it was the biggest moment since the pandemic where you felt the electricity of cinemas. You felt that moment of an event weekend. You felt people returning in their droves. And then we were in a writer's and actor strike. And the knowledge that there would be some kind of dislocation in content supply for cinema in the future. And so I found it both a joyous moment to see that, but also because of the, the, the labor disputes. And of course, good news is one of them has already been solved. The writer's one looks like there's an agreement. It was also quite a frustrating moment because, you know, I went to LA a couple of weeks later, There was a lot of frustration and disenchantment in LA at that point before the writer's strike certainly was agreed, because everything was stuck. So it was an interesting moment for cinema that, where it was a moment of elation, but also, hmm, we might be stuck again soon. You know, I don't know the ins and outs of the dispute, but I'm very hopeful that the act of strike gets settled soon and people get back to work.

AI assessment note: “Disastrous for cinema. I mean, utterly disastrous.”

Q How does that shape your thinking then? If you take that one level deeper, if it doesn't always seem rational, do you do anything as a result of that?

A Well, to some extent you, you have to move with the trends. So obviously we've seen that movement from, uh, you know, it's all about revenue to show me you can make some money, show me you can make some profit. So it's partly about understanding how things are changing and how things are going to be changing the way they're valued. I think it actually just takes you back to the fundamentals. Do you believe in these people? Do you believe in this idea? Do you believe in their execution? And then regardless of that, you, you give your best chance for good outcome. Not every time, but regardless of that, you give your best chance for good outcome.

AI assessment note: “I think it actually just takes you back to the fundamentals.”

Q What does the dislocation mean in terms of that content supply? Does it mean we won't have enough content for six months?

A It sort of depends how long it goes on for. Um, and if you're not, you know, one of our investments, a company called A-Twenty-Four, an independent studio, they, you know, they, they were able to keep making a lot of things. It's really about the studios and those big platforms like Netflix and Amazon. But yeah, there will be a point, a pinch point in the next year to 18 months where there's probably a bit less content around than before. We talked to the beginning of the podcast about maybe there might be too much content around, and Um, you know, a refinement of that might be a good thing. I think it's really gonna depend now on how long the act of strike continues, and if people get back to work quite soon, they may not notice that dislocation. But certainly, you know, if any industry pauses for four months, five months, six months, supply dwindles.

AI assessment note: “there will be a point, a pinch point in the next year to 18 months”

Q Okay, I totally get you there. Tell me, what's your biggest lesson from working with Len?

A He also says do big things. Do less and do big things. I think that's right. I think, you know, you've only got so much amount of bandwidth, but you know, I, I learn whenever I'm with him and he's very generous with his time with me, I learn things every time from his business experience, a story he might tell, or he'll say, you know, generally speaking, I found this and I've seen this pattern. So there are some like big things, but actually I, I, when you're lucky enough to work with someone like that is, you know, one of the world's most successful businessmen, you learn from them all the time. You learn from every conversation. Sometimes you might say something that interests them as well, but I definitely learn all the time from him.

AI assessment note: “Do less and do big things. I think that's right.”

Q I had this beautiful structure of the conversation and I'm just kind of going to ignore it because I want to just roll with this. How did they then think about it internally when they think about that fragmentation? What are they saying and what did you think when you were in that seat?

A First of all, you shouldn't accept that linear television is over, broadcast television is over. Particularly for older audiences, they are watching quite a lot of amounts. So channels have value. But I believe particularly with digital audiences, it's the young audiences that have obviously moved over first. And you really need to pay a lot of attention to what young audiences are doing, because they're the pathfinder for the older audiences. So I try to think most about youth audiences as the kind of pathfinder to what the future will be like. And I, you see that in other places, you know, one of our very interesting stats I've, I've noticed more recently was, so in the US, more hours are consumed of YouTube on connected TVs than Netflix. And that's because, you know, you can watch YouTube now on your main TV, um, and people are watching so much YouTube, it's now more out than Netflix. So that gives you an idea about how the ground has shifted. Telling you something about my age, I remember in this country when a fourth network channel was, uh, announced, uh, started broadcasting Channel Four. Okay, that was in the eighties. Can you imagine that now? You have hundreds, if not thousands, of sources of entertainment across, across a broad, broad spectrum. I think you focus on the young to start with because they're the pathfinders. And the key, more than anything, is have great…

AI assessment note: “I try to think most about youth audiences as the kind of pathfinder”

Q New York, I don't know. I don't spend too much time in New York. But I love that, and so I find that, is there anything that's different between them? When you look at, like, kind of, maybe the more, As I'm fair to say more creative, but when you look at your actors, your directors, writers versus the founders, is there anything where the best have a difference?

A On stage talent often come with a range of insecurities. Uh, it's a different thing that, you know, they take a risk and put themselves out in the public that the rest of us don't. That involves risk and vulnerability that most of us don't ever experience. So that's something interesting in how you manage them and get the best out of them. Um, I, I think that's actually one really, really important difference that they take a different kind of risk. A founder is taking risk with people's money. An actor or an artist is taking a risk in a very public way about how people will respond to their art and what they're doing on stage or on film or, or in a gallery. So I think that's actually one of the interesting things you have to do. And again, it comes around to how you manage people, how you understand what concerns them, how you can best support them. What are the strengths you have that other people might not have or you've got more of? I'll give you another example. So my background, I am not going to be the fastest in the room on the Excel, ok? I understand how the Excel works, ok? I can do the maths, but I won't be the fastest. But I may be one of the better people at understanding how people are feeling about their work, how you can encourage them the most, what kind of incentives they need, and how you can best support them. So it's about, also about being very honest with…

AI assessment note: “A founder is taking risk with people's money. An actor or an artist is taking a risk”

Q Do you worry about the loneliness pandemic? We spoke earlier about kind of people management and how they feel, and you said about kind of being really very good at how they feel. I'm really worried that actually, which is more depressed than loneliness.

A So my, my much smarter than me wife, Wrote a book about this three or so years ago before everyone started talking about it, uh, called The Lonely Century. Um, and she actually wrote it before the pandemic because she, through some experiences she'd had of, uh, teaching and some work she'd actually been doing on, on the rise of the far right in Europe, she could see this loneliness trend building. So she wrote a book which was published. She actually delivered it, uh, first to publisher in March, 20, just as the pandemic was starting and then took it back to, to rewrite sections to weave the pandemic in. As someone who did colorway editing and helping with that book, Um, yes, it's a very, it's a huge, huge issue for young people as much as old people. The data around, you know, young people are actually lonelier than old people. Those are some terrible stories and, uh, things around old people. But I think it's a massive, massive thing. I think digital culture and social media and our phones have played a massive role in that. So yeah, um, by the lonely century today, and you'll, you'll see. But what, what's so interesting about-

AI assessment note: “yes, it's a very, it's a huge, huge issue for young people”