The Exchanges

Q And it will be in the next few years because?

A Because we will put it in the context of an agentic workflow, and we will surround it with rules, and we will limit the non-predictable aspect, and we will put humans in the loop to validate the outcome. But it's gonna be important. It's not gonna be like a chatbot. It's, we will get to, it's gonna be the conductor will be this enterprise workflow that can be triggered by an external factor. Maybe a client will send you an email, you know, asking for a mortgage application, and then you will trigger an enterprise workflow that will call an agent that will process, you know, the application, will make a recommendation, is gonna create a task that will come in my inbox, I will validate, I can reply from my inbox, I'm okay, or not, or anything. That will trigger back the enterprise workflow, that will resume, and will go and will create, will call a robot that will grant the mortgage, and will do necessary changes in the banking system. This is a very different way of working compared to a chatbot.

AI assessment note: “Because we will put it in the context of an agentic workflow”

Q And it will be in the next few years because?

A Because we will put it in the context of an agentic workflow, and we will surround it with rules, and we will limit the non-predictable aspect, and we will put humans in the loop to validate the outcome. But it's gonna be important. It's not gonna be like a chatbot. It's, we will get to, it's gonna be the conductor will be this enterprise workflow that can be triggered by an external factor. Maybe a client will send you an email, you know, asking for a mortgage application, and then you will trigger an enterprise workflow that will call an agent that will process, you know, the application, will make a recommendation, is gonna create a task that will come in my inbox, I will validate, I can reply from my inbox, I'm okay, or not, or anything. That will trigger back the enterprise workflow, that will resume, and will go and will create, will call a robot that will grant the mortgage, and will do necessary changes in the banking system. This is a very different way of working compared to a chatbot.

AI assessment note: “Because we will put it in the context of an agentic workflow”

Q But do you as UiPath also want to be the provider of agent-based, non-rule-based actions?

A Yes. But we also will integrate with agents built with other platforms. Because maybe for We call a lot of APIs from different platforms, right? An agent to me within the Salesforce platform will be just an API. I will just call an API, I will get an answer back, and I will feed it to a human user, say, what do you think about that answer? And then based on human response, I will call another action, maybe in another, or call another agent in another enterprise. Because we will be the orchestration on the top. And there is also, it makes a lot of sense to have an orchestration technology that is agnostic. We call it the Switzerland of the platform. Because an orchestration engine should be, should provide equally good access to different platforms. What's the interest of Salesforce to provide amazing connections to SAP and vice versa? No, it's not. So they will focus on building agents that work specifically for workloads that stay within their platforms. Why will...

AI assessment note: “Yes. But we also will integrate with agents built with other platforms.”

Q I'm sorry, does that not sound really fucking dull? Like, we're just gonna become validation monkeys. Tick, validate, tick, validate, tick, validate. Fuck, I prefer doing it. Like,

A No, I, I don't think so. These, these validations will be actually mostly on the, on the difficult cases in, in the longer term. So you asked me when agents will become, like, fully autonomous. I think there will be a progression to become comfortable with the output of an agent. If you say, let's take this example of a travel agent, right? So I'm working with the agent, so agent gets to know me, know my, Preference, and I discovered that most of the time, the agent will make recommendation that I will just check the box and say, okay, and do it, right? I can put very simple limit. Okay, if the entire trip that I'm asking is less than 10,000 dollars or something, just book it automatically. Otherwise, go and validate, and that I can reduce my Input on the process only on the cases that matter, and that will happen across the board.

AI assessment note: “No, I, I don't think so. These, these validations will be actually mostly on the difficult cases”

Q How did you learn English? Because also you learn quite quickly, sorry I'm interrupting you, but I remember When I interviewed Brandon four years ago or something, like, respectfully, your English was not nearly as good. Like, it's got so much better.

A Yeah, I'm an, I'm a total, uh, anti-talent, you know, to foreign languages, especially to English. But, so, when I was like, uh, 1920, and I started to play bridge, I didn't know any English at all. But, uh, the only good, uh, books about bridge were in English. So actually, I and a friend of mine both, uh, together, we put, You know, we had very little money, so we put together money to, to buy a really big book, an American book, like, I really still remember, it's a guy called Goren, and it's called, like, uh, American Standard, or something, talking about bridge. And I had to read the book with a dictionary. So that's basically what I was so passionate about it, because this is how I actually learned English. I know a lot of words, but my pronunciation is very bad, because it was, you know, the tendency was to pronounce as you read.

AI assessment note: “I had to read the book with a dictionary... how I actually learned English.”

Q But do you as UiPath also want to be the provider of agent-based, non-rule-based actions?

A Yes. But we also will integrate with agents built with other platforms. Because maybe for We call a lot of APIs from different platforms, right? An agent to me within the Salesforce platform will be just an API. I will just call an API, I will get an answer back, and I will feed it to a human user, say, what do you think about that answer? And then based on human response, I will call another action, maybe in another, or call another agent in another enterprise. Because we will be the orchestration on the top. And there is also, it makes a lot of sense to have an orchestration technology that is agnostic. We call it the Switzerland of the platform. Because an orchestration engine should be, should provide equally good access to different platforms. What's the interest of Salesforce to provide amazing connections to SAP and vice versa? No, it's not. So they will focus on building agents that work specifically for workloads that stay within their platforms. Why will...

AI assessment note: “Yes. But we also will integrate with agents built with other platforms.”

Q Can I ask, does the democratization of agents with agent builders, with the different elements that we've spoken about, does that mean that you can access a different part of the market? You are an enterprise company very much so today. Does that mean that you can access SMBs in a way that you never have done before?

A I'm not sure about it, because the, the catch here is that, um, agents, building agents require some interesting skills, and today we are in, uh, today we are at the point where we know technology works, but in order to make it working, you require, you know, very high-skilled people in some particular areas. Building an agent requires creating a prompt, and, uh, building a good prompt, it's actually more difficult than building, uh, building, uh, a script. A script is more predictable. You have the requirements, and then you just follow the requirements, you know, using, you know, logic, algorithm logic. With the prompt, things are not like this, because slight changes in the prompt can make it working like you want or not.

AI assessment note: “I'm not sure about it, because the, the catch here is that”

Q well, it'd be nicer if there was a bigger kitchen, And it'd be nicer if this, and it'd be nicer if that. And I was walking in the park with, like, one of my oldest friends today, and I felt really guilty for this in my head, because all I can think is, it'd be nicer when. What, what do you advise me as a friend when you hear that?

A I've wasted my, uh, late twenties, a big part of my thirties and forties thinking in this way. And, uh, it's a totally waste of cycles and energy. I, I was fortunate in life to, to understand what does it mean to have it all, basically. It doesn't fucking matter. Everything that matters is here, and it's how we think day by day. Thinking about a bigger kitchen will take cycles from reading, understanding world, understanding people, understanding AI. You're doing, we, we live in a pretty amazing world where Think about, with almost zero capital, you can build amazing stuff. It's fucking incredible, and it, it does, I, I know it doesn't really matter. There is not a single thing that I possess that it's worth spending cycles wanting it. It's not a single one.

AI assessment note: “it's a totally waste of cycles and energy... Thinking about a bigger kitchen will take cycles”

Q Can I ask, does the democratization of agents with agent builders, with the different elements that we've spoken about, does that mean that you can access a different part of the market? You are an enterprise company very much so today. Does that mean that you can access SMBs in a way that you never have done before?

A I'm not sure about it, because the, the catch here is that, um, agents, building agents require some interesting skills, and today we are in, uh, today we are at the point where we know technology works, but in order to make it working, you require, you know, very high-skilled people in some particular areas. Building an agent requires creating a prompt, and, uh, building a good prompt, it's actually more difficult than building, uh, building, uh, a script. A script is more predictable. You have the requirements, and then you just follow the requirements, you know, using, you know, logic, algorithm logic. With the prompt, things are not like this, because slight changes in the prompt can make it working like you want or not.

AI assessment note: “I'm not sure about it, because the, the catch here is that”

Q When we see stories like UiPath, where it's like zero to, you know, billions, and everyone's like, wow, wow, fantastic, zero to billions, that sounds great. There are times when you don't believe. When did you not believe, and what got you out of that?

A You know, it's, um, I questioned the success most before actually raising any money. I, I bootstrapped the company for 10 years, man. Those 10 years were the most difficult. I think the, the moment I raised some Capital, and I, I got some people trust in me. Something changed in my brain, and all the fear disappeared. And then it was just, you know, I just went killing it. And it never kind of stopped in, in a way. Maybe the most terrifying moment was, like, March, 2020, when the, with the onset of COVID. When I was thinking, maybe the world is gonna stop. We will have to basically fire, you know, almost everyone in the company to survive. We were still bleeding money, so it was, it was very hard moment, but it, it passed really quickly. We realized that actually it's.

AI assessment note: “I questioned the success most before actually raising any money.”

Q How did you learn English? Because also you learn quite quickly, sorry I'm interrupting you, but I remember When I interviewed Brandon four years ago or something, like, respectfully, your English was not nearly as good. Like, it's got so much better.

A Yeah, I'm an, I'm a total, uh, anti-talent, you know, to foreign languages, especially to English. But, so, when I was like, uh, 1920, and I started to play bridge, I didn't know any English at all. But, uh, the only good, uh, books about bridge were in English. So actually, I and a friend of mine both, uh, together, we put, You know, we had very little money, so we put together money to, to buy a really big book, an American book, like, I really still remember, it's a guy called Goren, and it's called, like, uh, American Standard, or something, talking about bridge. And I had to read the book with a dictionary. So that's basically what I was so passionate about it, because this is how I actually learned English. I know a lot of words, but my pronunciation is very bad, because it was, you know, the tendency was to pronounce as you read.

AI assessment note: “I had to read the book with a dictionary”

Q And what happened, sorry to that client, I just have to finish that story, so you do it, you do it at cost, they love it, what happens?

A They become our client, and that, I think it was, uh, the biggest, uh, Single invoice that we sent, that was in 2014, I think, we got like a hundred K revenue only from, uh, that client. Which was huge from us. But Harry, most important was that we, we understood that this is a huge market. So that was a BPO company, but they were doing some work for, uh, like a huge American computer manufacturing company at that time. So we, we understand. Actually, these big companies, Are flooded in manual, repetitive work, and they don't know what to do with them. It's so, it's so much, despite all the advances in APIs, in ERPs, in CRM, there are so many inefficiencies, and people use...

AI assessment note: “They become our client, and that, I think it was, uh, the biggest”

Q base also said, you know, the exact team has churned, A couple of times, maybe more so than other companies. What are some of your big lessons from that? And Aaron Levy actually at Box, the famous enterprise software founder, says it takes actually five exact teams churning to go to a public company, I think is his statement. How do you feel about the exact churn and lessons learned?

A I think it's kind of easy to explain because Most people will have a range where they can operate well. And in a hyper-growth startup, the company grows faster than their range. It happens. So what can you do? You, usually, you hire more experienced people and you put them in command. You cannot keep those people. And at times, these people feel that they are entitled to, to get that position, and they leave. At times, they feel this is an opportunity to, to grow and learn. And they stay there, and they earn their, their position there. But it's normal, and it's, it maybe it's five, I don't know, maybe five, it was in my, It was four or five probably, yes, until we went public.

AI assessment note: “in a hyper-growth startup, the company grows faster than their range”

Q How do you feel when you hear yourself say that?

A I miss it, in a way. I missed, uh, I miss the times when you learn. It was a time of extreme learning and extreme focus. And, you know, single handed into one direction. So I miss it. Now I don't have this luxury anymore. My, my only moments when I create something when it's the rare times when maybe I'm in an airplane and I try to write poetry. I do it only for my own sake. I share maybe only with a few friends. But this is the only moment when I feel transported in that state of flow. Otherwise, my days are mostly talking to people, making decisions, and, uh, Fun for me is also when, when I start, maybe even in the night, I am, I'm reflecting on some kind of, uh, features that we have to build, product roadmap, priorities, discussions with people, but I don't have this sense of intense focus, which I kind of miss. I, I need to find a way to go back to that.

AI assessment note: “I miss it, in a way. I missed, uh, I miss the times”

Q And what happened, sorry to that client, I just have to finish that story, so you do it, you do it at cost, they love it, what happens?

A They become our client, and that, I think it was, uh, the biggest, uh, Single invoice that we sent, that was in 2014, I think, we got like a hundred K revenue only from, uh, that client. Which was huge from us. But Harry, most important was that we, we understood that this is a huge market. So that was a BPO company, but they were doing some work for, uh, like a huge American computer manufacturing company at that time. So we, we understand. Actually, these big companies, Are flooded in manual, repetitive work, and they don't know what to do with them. It's so, it's so much, despite all the advances in APIs, in ERPs, in CRM, there are so many inefficiencies, and people use...

AI assessment note: “They become our client, and that, I think it was, uh, the biggest”

Q well, it'd be nicer if there was a bigger kitchen, And it'd be nicer if this, and it'd be nicer if that. And I was walking in the park with, like, one of my oldest friends today, and I felt really guilty for this in my head, because all I can think is, it'd be nicer when. What, what do you advise me as a friend when you hear that?

A I've wasted my, uh, late twenties, a big part of my thirties and forties thinking in this way. And, uh, it's a totally waste of cycles and energy. I, I was fortunate in life to, to understand what does it mean to have it all, basically. It doesn't fucking matter. Everything that matters is here, and it's how we think day by day. Thinking about a bigger kitchen will take cycles from reading, understanding world, understanding people, understanding AI. You're doing, we, we live in a pretty amazing world where Think about, with almost zero capital, you can build amazing stuff. It's fucking incredible, and it, it does, I, I know it doesn't really matter. There is not a single thing that I possess that it's worth spending cycles wanting it. It's not a single one.

AI assessment note: “it's a totally waste of cycles and energy”

Q When we see stories like UiPath, where it's like zero to, you know, billions, and everyone's like, wow, wow, fantastic, zero to billions, that sounds great. There are times when you don't believe. When did you not believe, and what got you out of that?

A You know, it's, um, I questioned the success most before actually raising any money. I, I bootstrapped the company for 10 years, man. Those 10 years were the most difficult. I think the, the moment I raised some Capital, and I, I got some people trust in me. Something changed in my brain, and all the fear disappeared. And then it was just, you know, I just went killing it. And it never kind of stopped in, in a way. Maybe the most terrifying moment was, like, March, 2020, when the, with the onset of COVID. When I was thinking, maybe the world is gonna stop. We will have to basically fire, you know, almost everyone in the company to survive. We were still bleeding money, so it was, it was very hard moment, but it, it passed really quickly. We realized that actually it's.

AI assessment note: “I questioned the success most before actually raising any money. I, I bootstrapped”

Q Do you think we will continue to live in a world of many models which are specialized in many different areas, or do you think there will be one or two monolithic models similar to what we have in cloud today with AWS, Azure, Google Cloud?

A I don't think models would match the, would match the cloud development. I think there will be, there will be multiple models. And look, even if we look at the human brain development, we have multiple models in our, we have some general cognitive models, but we have a lot of specialized models that would do some tasks better than using my general model. Even if I, Look, one of the most difficult tasks to replicate in, uh, today is to take this, uh, you know, this cup and drink out of it. I am doing, it's just perfect how I do it, but that's a dedicated model that we are training since we are very young. So this is, we, we train how to work. I don't think in how to work. So it's a dedicated model. So obviously there will be a world A few frontier models and a lot of dedicated models, and dedicated models will be built on the top of, I think is more likely to be built on the top of open source models that, you know, close source frontier models.

AI assessment note: “I think there will be, there will be multiple models.”

Q What did you give up on the RPA side?

A Look, we had, um, we had an workflow engine, for instance, that was like Windows workflow engine, and we have perfected it over the years, but now we have switched to a more modern technology, that, that workflow engine, and we are building on the top of that, so we, I resisted for so many years, and, you know, engineers in UiPath will realize how many discussions We had, bro, should we bring another workflow engine? Should we not? AI finally convinced me that's the right moment where we, we should bring a new workflow engine that is specifically designed for what we call agentic orchestration. Specifically designed to, to facilitate very well the connection between agents and human users and other Robots or other models, dedicated models, and some other API, some other entry points.

AI assessment note: “we had an workflow engine, for instance, that was like Windows workflow engine”

Q Paul Graham wrote about founder mode, and the incredible benefits of having founder-led companies. You hired a CEO, and then you come back as CEO. What are your reflections on founder mode, and the importance of founder-led companies?

A I think, um, there are stages where founder's mode work better, and, um, I think I, I under, when I, when I hired, uh, Rob, he's actually a great guy, but when I hired him, I didn't realize that we were still at the stage where founder mode, I think, is essential. I, I thought we are at the stage where we are more established, and we need, we need, ah, an experience that is stage appropriated for something bigger than us. So, I think for One billion in revenue company, it's actually, it's, it's not, uh, it's not that established in a way. You need to get to a critical mass. I, I think maybe that critical mass is.

AI assessment note: “I didn't realize that we were still at the stage where founder mode, I think, is essential.”

Q What's your most memorable, before we do a quick fire, most memorable moment from the UiPath journey as CEO? The one that you think, if I, when I say that to you, you're like, that moment.

A When we established in Japan, and it was atypical for a company to, because we started, we, our growth in Japan was for a couple of years higher than in the US. So establishing the way in the same time in Japan as in US. So I always fascinated of Japan culture. And, uh, again, really good timing, like this guy that called us in 2013. In 2016, I, uh, a Japanese guy kind of called us. And, uh, he said, I want to bring RPA to Japan. He was, uh, the CIO of Asia Pacific of Barclay Bank, I think. And he, very sophisticated Japanese, you know, he worked in New York for Goldman Sachs for a while. He was like the CIO, really. But he came to, he came to London, actually, to, to meet with me and with some other guys, and he looked a little bit strange to me at that time. And he was after a long flight, and he was, uh, I don't know, tired, but he asked some good questions. I was not sure really what we are gonna do there, but fortunately I was in Singapore when in early January he gave me a call and said, you know, we have an opportunity with the big bank in Japan, but you have to come to Japan and meet the person, meet that guy in person, because otherwise they will not trust. And it was, again, like, uh, this type of seminal moment, when I already had plans to go back to Romania to do some other stuff, but I changed my plans and I went to Japan. First time in my life, actually. And, uh, …

AI assessment note: “When we established in Japan, and it was atypical for a company”

Q Has there ever been a time when you felt stagnant, or that you weren't learning at that rate?

A Yeah, when I was working in Microsoft in my early thirties, I, um, I was also stuck in my mind a little bit. I, I was very unhappy being there, not necessarily in Microsoft or in US, but being removed from my comfortable life that I had in Romania. And I kind of forced myself. It was my decision. You know, somehow, In me, I know what is the right thing to do. And it, I have to push and force myself to do the right things, but hating myself in the same time. I didn't have the peace of mind to accept that the right decision can be actually the happy one. I think I could have done a much better time there. I could have learned more. I could have done a lot. Look, Gym, for instance, I could have worked with a trainer, right, because I went to gym quite a bit when I was there, but I was always doing things, you know, in a light way, not pushing. You know what, you know what I mean?

AI assessment note: “Yeah, when I was working in Microsoft in my early thirties”

Q I mean, that, that is so atypical compared to anything else that we see in this, in this industry. Can you just take me to that bootstrapping journey? Why did you not raise money? What did that look like in that journey to the first raise? Did you have product market fit? Like, help me understand that.

A Well, so initially I, I didn't even think that was possible for someone to give money to almost nothing. I thought I have to build something, show a product, and then, uh, maybe. But it was, I started, uh, end of like, 2005. It was, uh, still the winter of, uh, The VC industry, even in the Bay Area. I think the science of things, the spring was just about to, I remember early days of tech crunch, so I started to, to be connected, actually, more with what happened in the Bay Area, from Romania than when I was in Seattle, when I was completely isolated in Microsoft Word. But still I, I didn't, Think that I would be able to convince an investor to put money. It was very remote thought. It was a good learning. I, I, I don't think I was actually ready without these 10 years. Maybe some people learned entrepreneurship, maybe, if you are, if you are born and raised in a culture of entrepreneurship, maybe it's easier, so you can drop off from Stanford and you can start the company. But for me, these 10 years were my formation years, and I don't regret that. Because I, I learn actually to go through adversity. I learn a lot of the treats that I use as the CEO. I learn how to write a Google ad copyright, which is actually, it's a very valuable thing in itself. I learn how to be succinct with my thoughts, because this, you have to write an ad, you have to describe the product that you lov…

AI assessment note: “initially I, I didn't even think that was possible for someone to give money”

Q Do you think we will continue to live in a world of many models which are specialized in many different areas, or do you think there will be one or two monolithic models similar to what we have in cloud today with AWS, Azure, Google Cloud?

A I don't think models would match the, would match the cloud development. I think there will be, there will be multiple models. And look, even if we look at the human brain development, we have multiple models in our, we have some general cognitive models, but we have a lot of specialized models that would do some tasks better than using my general model. Even if I, Look, one of the most difficult tasks to replicate in, uh, today is to take this, uh, you know, this cup and drink out of it. I am doing, it's just perfect how I do it, but that's a dedicated model that we are training since we are very young. So this is, we, we train how to work. I don't think in how to work. So it's a dedicated model. So obviously there will be a world A few frontier models and a lot of dedicated models, and dedicated models will be built on the top of, I think is more likely to be built on the top of open source models that, you know, close source frontier models.

AI assessment note: “there will be a world A few frontier models and a lot of dedicated models”

Q What's your most memorable, before we do a quick fire, most memorable moment from the UiPath journey as CEO? The one that you think, if I, when I say that to you, you're like, that moment.

A When we established in Japan, and it was atypical for a company to, because we started, we, our growth in Japan was for a couple of years higher than in the US. So establishing the way in the same time in Japan as in US. So I always fascinated of Japan culture. And, uh, again, really good timing, like this guy that called us in 2013. In 2016, I, uh, a Japanese guy kind of called us. And, uh, he said, I want to bring RPA to Japan. He was, uh, the CIO of Asia Pacific of Barclay Bank, I think. And he, very sophisticated Japanese, you know, he worked in New York for Goldman Sachs for a while. He was like the CIO, really. But he came to, he came to London, actually, to, to meet with me and with some other guys, and he looked a little bit strange to me at that time. And he was after a long flight, and he was, uh, I don't know, tired, but he asked some good questions. I was not sure really what we are gonna do there, but fortunately I was in Singapore when in early January he gave me a call and said, you know, we have an opportunity with the big bank in Japan, but you have to come to Japan and meet the person, meet that guy in person, because otherwise they will not trust. And it was, again, like, uh, this type of seminal moment, when I already had plans to go back to Romania to do some other stuff, but I changed my plans and I went to Japan. First time in my life, actually. And, uh, …

AI assessment note: “When we established in Japan”

Q Has there ever been a time when you felt stagnant, or that you weren't learning at that rate?

A Yeah, when I was working in Microsoft in my early thirties, I, um, I was also stuck in my mind a little bit. I, I was very unhappy being there, not necessarily in Microsoft or in US, but being removed from my comfortable life that I had in Romania. And I kind of forced myself. It was my decision. You know, somehow, In me, I know what is the right thing to do. And it, I have to push and force myself to do the right things, but hating myself in the same time. I didn't have the peace of mind to accept that the right decision can be actually the happy one. I think I could have done a much better time there. I could have learned more. I could have done a lot. Look, Gym, for instance, I could have worked with a trainer, right, because I went to gym quite a bit when I was there, but I was always doing things, you know, in a light way, not pushing. You know what, you know what I mean?

AI assessment note: “Yeah, when I was working in Microsoft in my early thirties”

Q I mean, that, that is so atypical compared to anything else that we see in this, in this industry. Can you just take me to that bootstrapping journey? Why did you not raise money? What did that look like in that journey to the first raise? Did you have product market fit? Like, help me understand that.

A Well, so initially I, I didn't even think that was possible for someone to give money to almost nothing. I thought I have to build something, show a product, and then, uh, maybe. But it was, I started, uh, end of like, 2005. It was, uh, still the winter of, uh, The VC industry, even in the Bay Area. I think the science of things, the spring was just about to, I remember early days of tech crunch, so I started to, to be connected, actually, more with what happened in the Bay Area, from Romania than when I was in Seattle, when I was completely isolated in Microsoft Word. But still I, I didn't, Think that I would be able to convince an investor to put money. It was very remote thought. It was a good learning. I, I, I don't think I was actually ready without these 10 years. Maybe some people learned entrepreneurship, maybe, if you are, if you are born and raised in a culture of entrepreneurship, maybe it's easier, so you can drop off from Stanford and you can start the company. But for me, these 10 years were my formation years, and I don't regret that. Because I, I learn actually to go through adversity. I learn a lot of the treats that I use as the CEO. I learn how to write a Google ad copyright, which is actually, it's a very valuable thing in itself. I learn how to be succinct with my thoughts, because this, you have to write an ad, you have to describe the product that you lov…

AI assessment note: “initially I, I didn't even think that was possible for someone to give money”

Q Do you let them know at that point, or do you not? Because it knocks their confidence just as they're playing the game.

A Sometimes, sometimes it's not so easy to To tell them. Because it's more, it's, either there are very little facts that maybe sometimes it sounds ridiculous to me if I go to you and say, why did you do this? And, well, even why do you dress like this? Because, let's say, if I hire a developer and they come to work in a suit, that's, it doesn't happen. But I'm telling you this time. It's kind of hard to go, man, don't look, you look like a clown. Get, get a nice t-shirt if you want to Taken seriously. I'm not good of, of giving feedback. Even today, to me, I find because of, this is where empathy works against you. It's, it's not easy to, for me, it's not easy to give negative feedback. I have to trust.

AI assessment note: “Sometimes, sometimes it's not so easy to To tell them.”

Q Why is it not easy for you to give negative feedback?

A I don't know, I have this, uh, it's a, it's a little bit like, uh, I have a construct, a defect in my brain. I can, uh, I can give, uh, easily negative, it's a way of saying, but I can easily point people that I like and I enjoy to some of their negative, uh, treats. Because in a way, I feel that my love for them compensates the pain that I'm causing them, because you know, it causes, it causes pain to give feedback to anyone. It's impossible for someone to receive negative feedback without pain. It can be, Helpful, and they can heal, of course, because of the feedback, but it, it's the bout of pain that they feel that turns me, so I can, I can trade the pain that I feel giving feedback with the love that I give them, but when I don't feel love for them, I don't have this trait, so I feel only their pain, and I feel a little bit like I'm a jerk, And, ah, but it's, I have to, it's, it's a lifelong work to, To learn this skill, and like, uh, you know, we talk about Carl Aschenbach.

AI assessment note: “so I feel only their pain, and I feel a little bit like I'm a jerk”

Q Both of us are not very good at fluff. I, I hate empowerment, I hate alignment, I hate all the bullshit corporate words that people use which mean awful. Um, How do you re-energize the team? How do you say, hey, like, oh, you know, kind of Wolf of Wall Street style?

A My way is to, to speak really very Um, transparent to, to the teams. And, uh, this is where we are, guys. And, uh, it's a lot of work ahead of us. We made these mistakes. We have to fix these things. And, uh, it's not easy. It's gonna, it's gonna require a serious, serious work. And maybe there's not a way to energize them, but it's a way to, To make them hurt. I think one of the, Things that, as you grow bigger, it's that people feel smaller and smaller. I don't want, this is, this is hard. I don't, I wanna work in a company where people have joy. People feel that they are empowered to do things. Not in the bullshit alignment. But it's very important that, look, if you wanna, if you wanna make a big change, go and drive a big change. And, uh, and have the voice to fight for it. If you are shut down, then it affects the moral more than the stock price, I think.

AI assessment note: “My way is to, to speak really very Um, transparent to, to the teams.”