The Exchanges

Q So if we fast forward a little bit, uh, unbelievable stat here, Christian, that you sold 75% of the business to an angel investor. Can you just take me to this? What happened and how did that pan out?

A Right. So, um, again, going back in time a tiny bit. So we started with like Comrades Bank and they will give us some money. We had employees and stuff, and then they basically pulled the plug. One Sunday we would lay off eight people, unfortunately, and we moved to Berlin and we bootstrap from that onwards. Um, and during the time, as I said, nobody would give us really money. Um, but we've got this trading competition going the first traction and people would use the app. We look for alternative ways of funding the business. And then, um, we met many people who again rejected it. And then somebody said, well, you should meet this, um, a company in, in Düsseldorf in Germany. It's like a small high frequency brokerage company called You know, and they are entrepreneurial. They understand the thesis and they have the guts to do it. And we met them and I think they saw, uh, the potential, um, and they were very eager to invest, but they said, well, I think we have leverage. And so it's either this or nothing. And with that, okay, well, we're three years in, um, we have the confidence we can build it. We've seen at Commerce Bank what is required and we, we can do it. Um, and if we get to the point where we have maybe the first, We raised a 100,000 customers. hundred It will go somewhere. And so we said, well, it's better to have a tiny shareholding of something big than a big shar…

AI assessment note: “raised 600,000 euros back then and sold 75% of the company”

Q better that Germans don't save anywhere but their mattresses. I want to take a couple of years step back though, Christian, because, you know, it started in 2015, so can you just take me to 20 15? You decided not to raise. If we start there, in the early years, like, why did you decide not to raise in the early years from that 20 15 to 20 18 period?

A Well, of course, so I think first of all, it was never a really decision from us. Right. Uh, so we tried to race, uh, many times. So, uh, between, I think, 2015 and 19, I met over 200 VCs. Um, I was, um, rarely invited and every time we were invited, we, uh, almost never saw the partner. Right. So they, the usual story goes, they just cancel the meeting five minutes before, and then you may meet an intern, you may meet an analyst. And then you're pitching to them a very simple idea, right? That, um, you believe that there's a pension gap. People are going to invest, um, starting in Germany, you're 25 years of age, you're going to found a bank. And then everybody calls it bullshit, right? And says, this is not going to work. As you once said, nobody wants to invest and it's, uh, uh, heavily regulated and, and, and, and the potential is not there. And so, um, nobody really gets anywhere close to writing a term sheet, um, uh, to this. Um, and so during that time we looked into alternative ways of kicking things off. And, uh, my co-founder Thomas, he's a gifted engineer. And, um, at the beginning he would participate in hackathons, you know, this programming, uh, competitions and he mastered the skill and he won every one he participated in. Um, and so we won one, um, of commerce bank, like the German, uh, bank with the yellow sign. And they then invited us to join their so-called …

AI assessment note: “it was never a really decision from us. Right. Uh, so we tried to race”

Q Christian, do you bring your wider exact team into the meeting?

A Yeah, of course. So basically how we structure the meeting is, um, we try to share the deck one week in advance, likely it's three, four days. Um, and then we always start with a, with a, with a founder only section where we talk very, Uh, openly about what's good, what's bad. Um, and then we invite the team and then we have like finance product operations, legal, whatever's like on the agenda. And then these people come and presented independently. And to be frank, I prepare the board for what I like about my team and maybe don't like, and, and, and, and where we, where we have areas to discuss. And so everybody can, with that context, listen to the pieces. And then we wrap up again, um, uh, together in a small group without the team and discuss next steps. Um, and that's working always like this for, for years now.

AI assessment note: “Yeah, of course. So basically how we structure the meeting is”

Q many questions. One, when you look back at those early days when bluntly you were getting rejected by every VC and the analysts and the interns and you name it, was that your mistake in terms of how you packaged it? I think a lot of the things are product marketing challenges. Should you have packaged it differently or was it a VC class that just didn't like the product?

A Well, I think if you, if you fail, it's always your mistake, right? Um, um, so you, you're not here to blame any other person. So I think in hindsight, yeah, obviously we, um, improved a lot about how we present the company, the mission and how we understand our business. But I guess back then, um, let's travel back in time, right? 2015, uh, entry six just started, Revolut just started, right? So the entire idea of doing banking on your phone was quite novel and not really proven. Um, second, you entering a market, Germany, Where there's historically a very low quota of people investing in the first place, right? So only, um, 10% of German invest. And then third, um, you have, uh, the idea to do commission-free investing in a heavily regulated market, and you get this huge entry barrier of getting a license in the first place. And I think this, um, three points altogether were a bit too high, right? Um, but we've been so motivated because we really believe that there is a pension gap. So meaning that the statutory pension system we have in continental Europe is inherently broken, and that thesis suggests that basically in the next 2030 years, millions of people are going to start investing. And so that idea kept us going, um, over the first four, four and a half years to really, uh, come to the point where we have a working prototype.

AI assessment note: “if you fail, it's always your mistake... in hindsight, yeah, obviously we, improved a lot”

Q What do you think is your core metric for success? Like how do you define A successful user, the number of trades, the amount of times they log into the app. What is that metric which determines a successful user?

A Yes. And, and I think that's a very, very important question. Fundamental question for Twitter public, because many people confuse us to Robinhood, right? And you think you're just a trading company. And if you follow that thought, I would should look into trades per customer per month, maybe. Right. And actually we're not looking at it to it at all. So in any product manager It comes to me and suggest that we should an engagement campaign, helping people to invest more, more often, more frequently. We don't do it. We don't because we believe we want to help people to accumulate wealth. Now, how do you predict this is by monthly recurring deposits. So basically we tried to optimize with as many young people putting in money monthly into the product, right? And so this is a core metric. So eventually if we go to the board, The first one we talk about is assets, total assets. The second number is, um, a recurring deposits over time, because we believe that's the biggest predictor for sustainable activity, because I'd rather have millions of people doing little business over the next 30 years recurringly than a lot of business during GameStop, and then they're gone with the market flex.

AI assessment note: “The first one we talk about is assets, total assets. The second number is... recurring deposits”

Q How did the meeting with Doug Leoni go? I mean, the, the, the guy is special. Uh, how did that go? Just take me to it.

A So first of all, I think it's a peak of COVID, right? So physical meetings are not happening, right? And then, um, Doug says, well, casually I'm in Berlin. Do you want to meet? And then we would meet on this hotel terrace because the peak of COVID everybody's a bit afraid to meet, right? And so, yes, we were sitting down. It was freezing cold. On the terrace of a hotel and had this, I don't know, uh, one or two hour initial conversation, which was. 50% traded public, 50% my private life and, and, and how I grew up and, and, and what I'm about to, what motivates me. Right. And I think that led then to a very great exchange, um, um, over the coming month. And then, um, luckily resulted into the investment and obviously very privileged to work with Sequoia, to work with him personally on the board and, um, He's somebody who's make you leave your comfort zone for sure.

AI assessment note: “had this, I don't know, uh, one or two hour initial conversation”

Q That's a great thing. Um, can I ask you about it, Christian? You then decided to raise a round in, in, in, in, in, put in context, Robinhood was down 60% from their IPO price. Um, I don't think there was a huge amount of love towards the market bluntly. Can you take me to this process and what you decided to raise at seemingly kind of the worst time?

A So I think we've been privileged in the, in the, in the years, 2020, 21, um, that we raised money where we never needed money, right? So, um, we kind of had a cushion, um, but we also recognize that our business model has a so-called double whammy. So what does it mean? So if interest rates go down, uh, capital markets go up, And so retail people trade more, right? And so your revenue explodes at the same time, as you know, venture valuations go up and the market is much more interested in, in, in having high valuations, right? So that elevator goes up quite fast. And so when I, or we saw first cracks in the interest rates and okay, there was like this war situation in Ukraine and, and, and, and, and it was a very realistic scenario. The interest rates would go up quickly. We knew this elevator goes down. Um, quite quickly in the other direction. Right. Um, and so I think that experience kind of, um, um, made us pretty aware that now's time to just really brace for another two, three, four years, uh, where you want to have all the money to press your competitors against the wall if you need to. And, um, so we went out and, um, Robinhood was out, as you said, and because they've been a public company, you could take the quarterly earnings and, uh, we could go to investors, very, um, select, A number of investors, which we saw as very complimentary what we have today, um, and sho…

AI assessment note: “now's time to just really brace for another two, three, four years”

Q Perfect. Okay, so let's start with Christian. What was the most challenging moment in the Trade Republic journey?

A Hiring the first person. I remember like, it was like Thomas and me and Marco, like three founders, and then it's so hard to find the first person, which is as crazy as you. So basically you don't have any money. You don't have any funding, right? You just say, well, it's, it's going to work out. And then this guy was a backend developer. Um, he had a wife and kid, and I think it took like six to nine months. I had like twice dinner with the entire family. Right. So that was the thing, uh, in hindsight, one of the hardest faces, because when you have the first person, he's like an ambassador for you. And then the second, third hire gets much easier. But I remember like this time I said, fuck, if we don't, if we lose this guy now, right, we start again and I need to meet the family. So this is very hard.

AI assessment note: “Hiring the first person. I remember like, it was like Thomas and me”

Q better that Germans don't save anywhere but their mattresses. I want to take a couple of years step back though, Christian, because, you know, it started in 2015, so can you just take me to 20 15? You decided not to raise. If we start there, in the early years, like, why did you decide not to raise in the early years from that 20 15 to 20 18 period?

A Well, of course, so I think first of all, it was never a really decision from us. Right. Uh, so we tried to race, uh, many times. So, uh, between, I think, 2015 and 19, I met over 200 VCs. Um, I was, um, rarely invited and every time we were invited, we, uh, almost never saw the partner. Right. So they, the usual story goes, they just cancel the meeting five minutes before, and then you may meet an intern, you may meet an analyst. And then you're pitching to them a very simple idea, right? That, um, you believe that there's a pension gap. People are going to invest, um, starting in Germany, you're 25 years of age, you're going to found a bank. And then everybody calls it bullshit, right? And says, this is not going to work. As you once said, nobody wants to invest and it's, uh, uh, heavily regulated and, and, and, and the potential is not there. And so, um, nobody really gets anywhere close to writing a term sheet, um, uh, to this. Um, and so during that time we looked into alternative ways of kicking things off. And, uh, my co-founder Thomas, he's a gifted engineer. And, um, at the beginning he would participate in hackathons, you know, this programming, uh, competitions and he mastered the skill and he won every one he participated in. Um, and so we won one, um, of commerce bank, like the German, uh, bank with the yellow sign. And they then invited us to join their so-called …

AI assessment note: “it was never a really decision from us. Right. Uh, so we tried to race”

Q Christian, do you bring your wider exact team into the meeting?

A Yeah, of course. So basically how we structure the meeting is, um, we try to share the deck one week in advance, likely it's three, four days. Um, and then we always start with a, with a, with a founder only section where we talk very, Uh, openly about what's good, what's bad. Um, and then we invite the team and then we have like finance product operations, legal, whatever's like on the agenda. And then these people come and presented independently. And to be frank, I prepare the board for what I like about my team and maybe don't like, and, and, and, and where we, where we have areas to discuss. And so everybody can, with that context, listen to the pieces. And then we wrap up again, um, uh, together in a small group without the team and discuss next steps. Um, and that's working always like this for, for years now.

AI assessment note: “Yeah, of course. So basically how we structure the meeting is”

Q What do you think is your core metric for success? Like how do you define A successful user, the number of trades, the amount of times they log into the app. What is that metric which determines a successful user?

A Yes. And, and I think that's a very, very important question. Fundamental question for Twitter public, because many people confuse us to Robinhood, right? And you think you're just a trading company. And if you follow that thought, I would should look into trades per customer per month, maybe. Right. And actually we're not looking at it to it at all. So in any product manager It comes to me and suggest that we should an engagement campaign, helping people to invest more, more often, more frequently. We don't do it. We don't because we believe we want to help people to accumulate wealth. Now, how do you predict this is by monthly recurring deposits. So basically we tried to optimize with as many young people putting in money monthly into the product, right? And so this is a core metric. So eventually if we go to the board, The first one we talk about is assets, total assets. The second number is, um, a recurring deposits over time, because we believe that's the biggest predictor for sustainable activity, because I'd rather have millions of people doing little business over the next 30 years recurringly than a lot of business during GameStop, and then they're gone with the market flex.

AI assessment note: “The second number is, um, a recurring deposits over time”

Q many questions. One, when you look back at those early days when bluntly you were getting rejected by every VC and the analysts and the interns and you name it, was that your mistake in terms of how you packaged it? I think a lot of the things are product marketing challenges. Should you have packaged it differently or was it a VC class that just didn't like the product?

A Well, I think if you, if you fail, it's always your mistake, right? Um, um, so you, you're not here to blame any other person. So I think in hindsight, yeah, obviously we, um, improved a lot about how we present the company, the mission and how we understand our business. But I guess back then, um, let's travel back in time, right? 2015, uh, entry six just started, Revolut just started, right? So the entire idea of doing banking on your phone was quite novel and not really proven. Um, second, you entering a market, Germany, Where there's historically a very low quota of people investing in the first place, right? So only, um, 10% of German invest. And then third, um, you have, uh, the idea to do commission-free investing in a heavily regulated market, and you get this huge entry barrier of getting a license in the first place. And I think this, um, three points altogether were a bit too high, right? Um, but we've been so motivated because we really believe that there is a pension gap. So meaning that the statutory pension system we have in continental Europe is inherently broken, and that thesis suggests that basically in the next 2030 years, millions of people are going to start investing. And so that idea kept us going, um, over the first four, four and a half years to really, uh, come to the point where we have a working prototype.

AI assessment note: “if you fail, it's always your mistake, right?”

Q That's a great thing. Um, can I ask you about it, Christian? You then decided to raise a round in, in, in, in, in, put in context, Robinhood was down 60% from their IPO price. Um, I don't think there was a huge amount of love towards the market bluntly. Can you take me to this process and what you decided to raise at seemingly kind of the worst time?

A So I think we've been privileged in the, in the, in the years, 2020, 21, um, that we raised money where we never needed money, right? So, um, we kind of had a cushion, um, but we also recognize that our business model has a so-called double whammy. So what does it mean? So if interest rates go down, uh, capital markets go up, And so retail people trade more, right? And so your revenue explodes at the same time, as you know, venture valuations go up and the market is much more interested in, in, in having high valuations, right? So that elevator goes up quite fast. And so when I, or we saw first cracks in the interest rates and okay, there was like this war situation in Ukraine and, and, and, and, and it was a very realistic scenario. The interest rates would go up quickly. We knew this elevator goes down. Um, quite quickly in the other direction. Right. Um, and so I think that experience kind of, um, um, made us pretty aware that now's time to just really brace for another two, three, four years, uh, where you want to have all the money to press your competitors against the wall if you need to. And, um, so we went out and, um, Robinhood was out, as you said, and because they've been a public company, you could take the quarterly earnings and, uh, we could go to investors, very, um, select, A number of investors, which we saw as very complimentary what we have today, um, and sho…

AI assessment note: “now's time to just really brace for another two, three, four years”

Q How did the meeting with Doug Leoni go? I mean, the, the, the guy is special. Uh, how did that go? Just take me to it.

A So first of all, I think it's a peak of COVID, right? So physical meetings are not happening, right? And then, um, Doug says, well, casually I'm in Berlin. Do you want to meet? And then we would meet on this hotel terrace because the peak of COVID everybody's a bit afraid to meet, right? And so, yes, we were sitting down. It was freezing cold. On the terrace of a hotel and had this, I don't know, uh, one or two hour initial conversation, which was. 50% traded public, 50% my private life and, and, and how I grew up and, and, and what I'm about to, what motivates me. Right. And I think that led then to a very great exchange, um, um, over the coming month. And then, um, luckily resulted into the investment and obviously very privileged to work with Sequoia, to work with him personally on the board and, um, He's somebody who's make you leave your comfort zone for sure.

AI assessment note: “sitting down. It was freezing cold. On the terrace of a hotel”

Q Can I ask you, in terms of Robinhood, there was a lot of rumors that they would come to Europe. How did you answer those? And I mean, they had confirmed plans to come to Europe bluntly, so calling a spade a spade. But how did you respond to those questions? How did you feel about that? And what were the thoughts there?

A Obviously we admire Robinhood, right? I think they opened up the category and they did a tremendous job. They're culturally well, very, very relevant, right? Um, at the same time, we never felt that they were so overlapping with what we're doing, right? I think, yes, if you look from the outside, it might be it. But if you look even on the pricing of trade Republic, a trade costs one Euro, a savings plan is for free. So I think it's clearly where we want to nudge people, right? And to be honest, our competitors, um, um, are much more the traditional banks, uh, in continental Europe. And so we felt that even if they might come, there's a reason for those two companies to exist. But then at the same time, we knew from own experiences, how huge the entry barriers are into the market in terms of regulation, in terms of, um, the product market fit in terms of, um, having a great quality product, right for exchange trading. And so we've been. Never too nervous, um, that they would come around the corner quickly and take Europe in storm.

AI assessment note: “we've been Never too nervous, um, that they would come around the corner quickly”

Q Perfect. Okay, so let's start with Christian. What was the most challenging moment in the Trade Republic journey?

A Hiring the first person. I remember like, it was like Thomas and me and Marco, like three founders, and then it's so hard to find the first person, which is as crazy as you. So basically you don't have any money. You don't have any funding, right? You just say, well, it's, it's going to work out. And then this guy was a backend developer. Um, he had a wife and kid, and I think it took like six to nine months. I had like twice dinner with the entire family. Right. So that was the thing, uh, in hindsight, one of the hardest faces, because when you have the first person, he's like an ambassador for you. And then the second, third hire gets much easier. But I remember like this time I said, fuck, if we don't, if we lose this guy now, right, we start again and I need to meet the family. So this is very hard.

AI assessment note: “Hiring the first person. I remember like, it was like Thomas and me”

Q So if we fast forward a little bit, uh, unbelievable stat here, Christian, that you sold 75% of the business to an angel investor. Can you just take me to this? What happened and how did that pan out?

A Right. So, um, again, going back in time a tiny bit. So we started with like Comrades Bank and they will give us some money. We had employees and stuff, and then they basically pulled the plug. One Sunday we would lay off eight people, unfortunately, and we moved to Berlin and we bootstrap from that onwards. Um, and during the time, as I said, nobody would give us really money. Um, but we've got this trading competition going the first traction and people would use the app. We look for alternative ways of funding the business. And then, um, we met many people who again rejected it. And then somebody said, well, you should meet this, um, a company in, in Düsseldorf in Germany. It's like a small high frequency brokerage company called You know, and they are entrepreneurial. They understand the thesis and they have the guts to do it. And we met them and I think they saw, uh, the potential, um, and they were very eager to invest, but they said, well, I think we have leverage. And so it's either this or nothing. And with that, okay, well, we're three years in, um, we have the confidence we can build it. We've seen at Commerce Bank what is required and we, we can do it. Um, and if we get to the point where we have maybe the first, We raised a 100,000 customers. hundred It will go somewhere. And so we said, well, it's better to have a tiny shareholding of something big than a big shar…

AI assessment note: “we raised, uh, 600,000 euros back then and sold 75% of the company.”

Q a naive outsider, but I, you know, specialize in asking dumb questions. When you look at, bluntly, the, the audience that we have with Trade Republic, it would be on the younger end, I imagine, and like, The lower wealth end. How does one ever think about getting the 50 to 65 where they're depositing millions and millions and taking them from very high touch prestige services to Trade Republic?

A So basically, I think we want to have an incredible focus, which is basically having, um, the most customers we can beneath, let's say, 3035 years of age depositing recurring money, right? Uh, why do we do this? Look at Trade Republic today. We have four million clients The average trader public client is, let's say, 28, 30 years of age, right? This person already holds an average 8000 euros with the account. These people are going to double or triple their wealth in the next five to 10 years to come, right? Because as everybody knows from themselves, during the thirties, you accumulate the vast majority of your personal wealth. So if we can just grow with these people, you're going to be the Charles Schwab, the UBS of Europe in 2030 years. Right. And so basically we have this really incredible focus of young people, recurring deposits, and obviously during the, during the journey, you get a lot of 40 and 50 year old people, uh, down the line. Maybe that's what we're seeing today, but the core focus is still the young people.

AI assessment note: “if we can just grow with these people, you're going to be the Charles Schwab”

Q Do you worry about actually a very different time today, meaning we're less wealthy than ever and we accumulate wealth less effectively?

A Yes. And I guess this is a conviction piece you must have in this play, right? So basically the underlying thesis of trade public, and I guess coming from the U S coming from the UK, you don't understand the problem we have in continental Europe. So continental Europe doesn't have any incentivized government incentivized way to do capital markets, pension savings. So you just depend on the generational pension system, meaning you depend on the young people paying money into the system and all people getting money out of the system, meaning the guaranteed pension from the state is falling apart. And many, many people realize this right now. Right. And I think this is a transformation we're believing in the transformation we currently see in the market that, um, a whole generation of young people recognizes, oh my gosh, I have a problem in 2030 years. I need to save some money now. And this is why you see so many people paying in monies, right? So trade public today has thirty five billion euros of assets because of that fact, because all these young people deposit money on a monthly basis. And so, yes, we believe that over time this will happen and maybe think about it differently. Um, today a typical 30, 35 year old is likely not married, likely has not a house, likely has not a car. So the disposable income is pretty high. And then to get a fraction of that as savings is not a…

AI assessment note: “Yes. And I guess this is a conviction piece you must have in this play”

Q What's the biggest hurdle? Is it getting them to make the first deposit? Is that the core thing that then locks them in? Because you've said multiple times and Johan just said there about the zero churn. I'm just trying to understand why it's zero churn. And is that core hurdle just the first deposit?

A Well, so the, um, really viral product of trade public is the so-called savings plan, right? So you subscribe to a ETF basket, so to say, and you put in money monthly, and this is something people almost never really quit, right? So you set up 203 hundred euros per month, and you just deposit money with this savings plan. And it's a bit like a, like a fitness club subscription, right? So you feel so guilty by, by, by quitting it, you don't do it. Right. So I think this is what we're trying to do. We're trying to get people this free savings plan and it comes with no strings attached. It's for free. You can cancel at any time. Right. But still people don't do it. And I think that's the underlying current, which is driving the business.

AI assessment note: “really viral product of trade public is the so-called savings plan”

Q then obviously more VCs see the potential. You've now raised 1.3 billion dollars. Um, can I ask you, and it's a broad one, so you can take it in any ways, but what are one or two of your biggest lessons from raising 1.3 billion from some of the best, including Johan, but then you're Keith through Roy, Doug Leone, John at TCV, What are some of those big lessons?

A Well, I mean, so first of all, I think we saw the two sides of venture capitalism, right? So the first four or five years where nobody touches you, where you've been rejected all the time, right? And then I'd say yes to the second half, um, where we could or had the luxury of choosing with whom to work with, right? And I think any investor which we picked, we've built a relationship for over a year or two years, right? So, um, all of them basically cover the company. We had multiple conversations. We spent a lot of time, um, trying to promise and deliver. And then, um, that led to these investments. So we would know the people very well, um, before they entered the cap table.

AI assessment note: “any investor which we picked, we've built a relationship for over a year”

Q Can I ask you, in terms of Robinhood, there was a lot of rumors that they would come to Europe. How did you answer those? And I mean, they had confirmed plans to come to Europe bluntly, so calling a spade a spade. But how did you respond to those questions? How did you feel about that? And what were the thoughts there?

A Obviously we admire Robinhood, right? I think they opened up the category and they did a tremendous job. They're culturally well, very, very relevant, right? Um, at the same time, we never felt that they were so overlapping with what we're doing, right? I think, yes, if you look from the outside, it might be it. But if you look even on the pricing of trade Republic, a trade costs one Euro, a savings plan is for free. So I think it's clearly where we want to nudge people, right? And to be honest, our competitors, um, um, are much more the traditional banks, uh, in continental Europe. And so we felt that even if they might come, there's a reason for those two companies to exist. But then at the same time, we knew from own experiences, how huge the entry barriers are into the market in terms of regulation, in terms of, um, the product market fit in terms of, um, having a great quality product, right for exchange trading. And so we've been. Never too nervous, um, that they would come around the corner quickly and take Europe in storm.

AI assessment note: “never too nervous, um, that they would come around the corner quickly”

Q a naive outsider, but I, you know, specialize in asking dumb questions. When you look at, bluntly, the, the audience that we have with Trade Republic, it would be on the younger end, I imagine, and like, The lower wealth end. How does one ever think about getting the 50 to 65 where they're depositing millions and millions and taking them from very high touch prestige services to Trade Republic?

A So basically, I think we want to have an incredible focus, which is basically having, um, the most customers we can beneath, let's say, 3035 years of age depositing recurring money, right? Uh, why do we do this? Look at Trade Republic today. We have four million clients The average trader public client is, let's say, 28, 30 years of age, right? This person already holds an average 8000 euros with the account. These people are going to double or triple their wealth in the next five to 10 years to come, right? Because as everybody knows from themselves, during the thirties, you accumulate the vast majority of your personal wealth. So if we can just grow with these people, you're going to be the Charles Schwab, the UBS of Europe in 2030 years. Right. And so basically we have this really incredible focus of young people, recurring deposits, and obviously during the, during the journey, you get a lot of 40 and 50 year old people, uh, down the line. Maybe that's what we're seeing today, but the core focus is still the young people.

AI assessment note: “if we can just grow with these people, you're going to be the Charles Schwab”

Q Can I ask, how much of your, like, four million, you know, users, members, depositors, how much of that is their primary account? You know, when we think about, say, like, your Revolut or your Monzo, who I know very well, that big thing, or that kind of core unlock is we want it to be your primary banking account. How much is your primary depositing account? Position for you.

A When we, uh, survey our customers, uh, we see that they have 40% of their private wealth with us. It's a KPI. No challenger bank comes anywhere close, right? So again, like the average account size is 9010 thousand euros. And this is the average. Basically, if you look into cohorts, which are with the company for two or three years, the average accounts is 25,000 euros. So imagine that, right? We have a 30 year old who has 25,000 euros on his Or her traded public account, right? So we own a vast majority of the private wealth of these people. So maybe we're the first bank account for them, um, when it comes to wealth. And, um, I think that's a very, very important value proposition for the next years to come.

AI assessment note: “we see that they have 40% of their private wealth with us.”

Q How did the rounds change? When you think about the way that you presented the vision that you presented, how did that change from round to round? And yeah, and do chime here in terms of advice on what you coach founders in terms of how they need to alter their presentation from round to round.

A So I think in hindsight, if you, and we usually do it once a year, look into the, the, the, the, the pitch decks over the years, you see that our vision really gets bigger and bigger by every funding round. Right. So there's a new, uh, layer added to it or a new like dimension added to it. Right. I think in hindsight, that is a red line through all the pitches. Um, and I think then we really found in every funding run, the next big thing, right? So obviously Johan was the product market fit and then series B, uh, with founders fund in Excel was the, um, um, uh, scaling in Germany, going deeper in the market, get really maybe millions and billions of assets. And then in the series C with Sequoia, it was okay, let's take the European successful business. Into some, sorry, the German successful business to something which works across Europe into different markets. It's, uh, quadruple the addressable market for the, for the product. So you find these, um, 10 X, uh, reasons every now and then. And then second, obviously, uh, uh, raise as little as you can. We try to be thoughtful with evaluation in all the rounds, right? So I think in every round we could have, um, easily raised something much bigger than we did. Um, because, um, we're trying to optimize the really end journey and not, not, The, the step along the way.

AI assessment note: “our vision really gets bigger and bigger by every funding round”

Q Can I ask, how much of your, like, four million, you know, users, members, depositors, how much of that is their primary account? You know, when we think about, say, like, your Revolut or your Monzo, who I know very well, that big thing, or that kind of core unlock is we want it to be your primary banking account. How much is your primary depositing account? Position for you.

A When we, uh, survey our customers, uh, we see that they have 40% of their private wealth with us. It's a KPI. No challenger bank comes anywhere close, right? So again, like the average account size is 9010 thousand euros. And this is the average. Basically, if you look into cohorts, which are with the company for two or three years, the average accounts is 25,000 euros. So imagine that, right? We have a 30 year old who has 25,000 euros on his Or her traded public account, right? So we own a vast majority of the private wealth of these people. So maybe we're the first bank account for them, um, when it comes to wealth. And, um, I think that's a very, very important value proposition for the next years to come.

AI assessment note: “we see that they have 40% of their private wealth with us.”

Q Do you worry about actually a very different time today, meaning we're less wealthy than ever and we accumulate wealth less effectively?

A Yes. And I guess this is a conviction piece you must have in this play, right? So basically the underlying thesis of trade public, and I guess coming from the U S coming from the UK, you don't understand the problem we have in continental Europe. So continental Europe doesn't have any incentivized government incentivized way to do capital markets, pension savings. So you just depend on the generational pension system, meaning you depend on the young people paying money into the system and all people getting money out of the system, meaning the guaranteed pension from the state is falling apart. And many, many people realize this right now. Right. And I think this is a transformation we're believing in the transformation we currently see in the market that, um, a whole generation of young people recognizes, oh my gosh, I have a problem in 2030 years. I need to save some money now. And this is why you see so many people paying in monies, right? So trade public today has thirty five billion euros of assets because of that fact, because all these young people deposit money on a monthly basis. And so, yes, we believe that over time this will happen and maybe think about it differently. Um, today a typical 30, 35 year old is likely not married, likely has not a house, likely has not a car. So the disposable income is pretty high. And then to get a fraction of that as savings is not a…

AI assessment note: “Yes. And I guess this is a conviction piece you must have in this play”

Q then obviously more VCs see the potential. You've now raised 1.3 billion dollars. Um, can I ask you, and it's a broad one, so you can take it in any ways, but what are one or two of your biggest lessons from raising 1.3 billion from some of the best, including Johan, but then you're Keith through Roy, Doug Leone, John at TCV, What are some of those big lessons?

A Well, I mean, so first of all, I think we saw the two sides of venture capitalism, right? So the first four or five years where nobody touches you, where you've been rejected all the time, right? And then I'd say yes to the second half, um, where we could or had the luxury of choosing with whom to work with, right? And I think any investor which we picked, we've built a relationship for over a year or two years, right? So, um, all of them basically cover the company. We had multiple conversations. We spent a lot of time, um, trying to promise and deliver. And then, um, that led to these investments. So we would know the people very well, um, before they entered the cap table.

AI assessment note: “know the people very well before they entered the cap table”

Q So with these rounds, Christian, you accumulate this board of incredible people. As I said, you've got Johan, you've got Doug Leone, you've got Keith Raboy, John Doran, Ontario. It's a lot of opinions on a board. In terms of board management, What have been your biggest lessons in terms of how to manage a board effectively?

A So I think because we, um, had the opportunity to build with each and every member, uh, a personal relationship even before investing, right? I think everybody knew kind of what they're getting, right? And what they're not getting. So, um, we stick to the plan. I think everybody appreciates that, which is the best asset game of accumulating recurring deposits and stuff. And then again, I think, yes, we have these board meetings, but I have a really vivid relationship with almost all of my board members, like We, we, we talk on a monthly basis and we spend time. And so I think there's no surprises. Everybody sees changes coming and we're very transparent about things that work and things that don't work.

AI assessment note: “there's no surprises. Everybody sees changes coming and we're very transparent”

Q What's the biggest hurdle? Is it getting them to make the first deposit? Is that the core thing that then locks them in? Because you've said multiple times and Johan just said there about the zero churn. I'm just trying to understand why it's zero churn. And is that core hurdle just the first deposit?

A Well, so the, um, really viral product of trade public is the so-called savings plan, right? So you subscribe to a ETF basket, so to say, and you put in money monthly, and this is something people almost never really quit, right? So you set up 203 hundred euros per month, and you just deposit money with this savings plan. And it's a bit like a, like a fitness club subscription, right? So you feel so guilty by, by, by quitting it, you don't do it. Right. So I think this is what we're trying to do. We're trying to get people this free savings plan and it comes with no strings attached. It's for free. You can cancel at any time. Right. But still people don't do it. And I think that's the underlying current, which is driving the business.

AI assessment note: “this is something people almost never really quit, right?”