The Exchanges

Q How do you instill radical candor? You mentioned Kim Scott in the interview. How do you instill radical candor at Evernote?

A Yeah, well, I work with Kim, uh, as, uh, she, she's my coach. So, so she, she's a great mentor and guide on this one, but it starts with giving a damn. She calls it giving a damn. Um, and that really picks up some of the things we've talked about. Like you have to basically walk the talk as a leader and show that you give a damn. Um, from there, you basically invite criticism and you invite feedback. Uh, and you model it yourself. So I, I, I try my best to do that, to make it safe and, and model that feed feedback is a gift. You know, being direct is not only something that's nice to, nice to have in a company, but it's absolutely, you know, essential if you're going to, if you're going to continuously improve and, you know, really fuel each other's growth.

AI assessment note: “it starts with giving a damn... basically invite criticism and you invite feedback”

Q It's not, it's not possible to escape, but I do want to touch on the 10 years that you spent at Google and ask you, what were the big takeaways from seeing the internal machinations and the real kind of hyper growth years of Google? And then secondly, how have you applied them to your role today with Evernote?

A Sure. So it was such an amazing run. I was so blessed and privileged to be at Google at such an amazing time. And it's just, it is really, you know, one of the defining companies of, of our lifetime. So it was such a pleasure and a privilege. And, you know, it's interesting. I, throughout my time, uh, 10 years, as you said, at Google would, in Evernote, actually, keep a list of the things that I would take with me wherever I were to venture, and things I wouldn't take with me. But the list on the, on the former was much, much longer than, than, than the latter. But really, the first was really about having a mission that matters. Google clearly has a mission that matters, and we've, we've brought that here. Team and culture. You know, so the notion that the team you build is, is really the company you build and the culture, the, you know, the countless things that you do that contribute to culture, really building your tribe. And that really starts with, with hiring and being really diligent about that. And last, last couple of things are really rooted around transparency. So really, you know, when Eric Schmidt would share with the entire company, the board letter, that really left a mark on me. You know, really the, the notion that if you hire great people, And the last thing I'll say is, is, is really set really audacious goals. And Google famously uses something called, uh, …

AI assessment note: “the first was really about having a mission that matters. Google clearly has a mission”

Q You've seen it with your time at Google in the hyper growth phase, and you're seeing it now in the scaling of Evernote. Are there characteristics that define those That can scale with the company, or fit, no, more appropriately, actually, fit the scaling phase, and those that don't. What are the characteristics of those that fit firmly in the scaling phase?

A Yeah, I'd say it's a healthy degree of self-awareness in, like, a growth mindset. I've talked about it a little bit. Folks that really can think both in the short and the long term, so it really isn't just, how are we going to, you know, punch through this wall today, tomorrow, but really think about One or two moves out so that you're setting things up, whether it's a hiring process, whether it's our, our architecture, you know, whether it's a product roadmap, whether it's how you actually communicate with people. I mean, everything about like people need to balance both the short and the near and the, and the longer term. This notion that a growth mindset, which I believe actually probably cuts across all phases, but really this is notion that you're, you as a human being, your mind is like a muscle. And it gets better with more use, especially when you push yourself out of your comfort zone. And then I, I also think it, it is the concept of the first team. So the, the leadership team here really has this notion that our first affinity is to, to one another on the team. And we're in this together that really we will win or lose together. And we, and we trust each other to, to own our functional domain and, and rely upon that, but doing so from a From a first team principle. That's, that's really essential. And it's the last thing I'd say on hiring is being really intentional …

AI assessment note: “it's a healthy degree of self-awareness in, like, a growth mindset.”

Q How do you instill radical candor? You mentioned Kim Scott in the interview. How do you instill radical candor at Evernote?

A Yeah, well, I work with Kim, uh, as, uh, she, she's my coach. So, so she, she's a great mentor and guide on this one, but it starts with giving a damn. She calls it giving a damn. Um, and that really picks up some of the things we've talked about. Like you have to basically walk the talk as a leader and show that you give a damn. Um, from there, you basically invite criticism and you invite feedback. Uh, and you model it yourself. So I, I, I try my best to do that, to make it safe and, and model that feed feedback is a gift. You know, being direct is not only something that's nice to, nice to have in a company, but it's absolutely, you know, essential if you're going to, if you're going to continuously improve and, you know, really fuel each other's growth.

AI assessment note: “it starts with giving a damn... you basically invite criticism and you invite feedback”

Q How do your conversations with your team go on the balancing between short and long term?

A There's a book by Jeffrey Moore called Zone to Win, and Jeffrey Moore, of course, is famous for his work around crossing the chasm inside their tornado, and some, some really seminal work throughout the years, and I highly recommend his work. The Zone to Win really is a short read. I recommend it too, and it really talks about You know, lots of different zones that your company operates in, and the two that guide us are what he calls the performance zone and then the transformation zone. The performance zone is basically executing your existing business and really having all the metrics that are required to guide the short-term, day-to-day, and being really rigorous about that. That's really the performance zone, and then transformation zone is really when you really need to make a big and a bold bet that will guide The future. Um, and, and very few companies, uh, make that transformational bet, uh, in time. Most, most people kind of cling to the existing business too long and don't have the ability to make that bet. So we actually have a framework for it. We set goals against each. And then, you know, so we have a vocabulary and then we remind each other, you know, literally we just had our, our, our quarterly offsite this week. And at the end we go around and we basically ask each other, are we being disciplined or Uh, across the shorter or medium term bets, as well as fundin…

AI assessment note: “we have a vocabulary and then we remind each other, you know, literally we just had”

Q It's not, it's not possible to escape, but I do want to touch on the 10 years that you spent at Google and ask you, what were the big takeaways from seeing the internal machinations and the real kind of hyper growth years of Google? And then secondly, how have you applied them to your role today with Evernote?

A Sure. So it was such an amazing run. I was so blessed and privileged to be at Google at such an amazing time. And it's just, it is really, you know, one of the defining companies of, of our lifetime. So it was such a pleasure and a privilege. And, you know, it's interesting. I, throughout my time, uh, 10 years, as you said, at Google would, in Evernote, actually, keep a list of the things that I would take with me wherever I were to venture, and things I wouldn't take with me. But the list on the, on the former was much, much longer than, than, than the latter. But really, the first was really about having a mission that matters. Google clearly has a mission that matters, and we've, we've brought that here. Team and culture. You know, so the notion that the team you build is, is really the company you build and the culture, the, you know, the countless things that you do that contribute to culture, really building your tribe. And that really starts with, with hiring and being really diligent about that. And last, last couple of things are really rooted around transparency. So really, you know, when Eric Schmidt would share with the entire company, the board letter, that really left a mark on me. You know, really the, the notion that if you hire great people, And the last thing I'll say is, is, is really set really audacious goals. And Google famously uses something called, uh, …

AI assessment note: “that's certainly what I have tried to do to bring to Evernote”

Q You've seen it with your time at Google in the hyper growth phase, and you're seeing it now in the scaling of Evernote. Are there characteristics that define those That can scale with the company, or fit, no, more appropriately, actually, fit the scaling phase, and those that don't. What are the characteristics of those that fit firmly in the scaling phase?

A Yeah, I'd say it's a healthy degree of self-awareness in, like, a growth mindset. I've talked about it a little bit. Folks that really can think both in the short and the long term, so it really isn't just, how are we going to, you know, punch through this wall today, tomorrow, but really think about One or two moves out so that you're setting things up, whether it's a hiring process, whether it's our, our architecture, you know, whether it's a product roadmap, whether it's how you actually communicate with people. I mean, everything about like people need to balance both the short and the near and the, and the longer term. This notion that a growth mindset, which I believe actually probably cuts across all phases, but really this is notion that you're, you as a human being, your mind is like a muscle. And it gets better with more use, especially when you push yourself out of your comfort zone. And then I, I also think it, it is the concept of the first team. So the, the leadership team here really has this notion that our first affinity is to, to one another on the team. And we're in this together that really we will win or lose together. And we, and we trust each other to, to own our functional domain and, and rely upon that, but doing so from a From a first team principle. That's, that's really essential. And it's the last thing I'd say on hiring is being really intentional …

AI assessment note: “a healthy degree of self-awareness in, like, a growth mindset.”

Q How do your conversations with your team go on the balancing between short and long term?

A There's a book by Jeffrey Moore called Zone to Win, and Jeffrey Moore, of course, is famous for his work around crossing the chasm inside their tornado, and some, some really seminal work throughout the years, and I highly recommend his work. The Zone to Win really is a short read. I recommend it too, and it really talks about You know, lots of different zones that your company operates in, and the two that guide us are what he calls the performance zone and then the transformation zone. The performance zone is basically executing your existing business and really having all the metrics that are required to guide the short-term, day-to-day, and being really rigorous about that. That's really the performance zone, and then transformation zone is really when you really need to make a big and a bold bet that will guide The future. Um, and, and very few companies, uh, make that transformational bet, uh, in time. Most, most people kind of cling to the existing business too long and don't have the ability to make that bet. So we actually have a framework for it. We set goals against each. And then, you know, so we have a vocabulary and then we remind each other, you know, literally we just had our, our, our quarterly offsite this week. And at the end we go around and we basically ask each other, are we being disciplined or Uh, across the shorter or medium term bets, as well as fundin…

AI assessment note: “at the end we go around and we basically ask each other”

Q Before we dive into potentially what you wouldn't have brought across, I am intrigued to ask, you said about audacious goal setting there. How do you implement audacious goal setting without disincentivizing people when they don't achieve their goals and causing a certain sense of dissatisfaction when they don't achieve them? Is there a difficult balance?

A There sure is. So I think it started with just actually just setting a goal, period. So really, it's, it's like changing a behavior, a habit. Often people try to just like You do something right away, whether that's getting in shape or learning a new, a new language or what have you. It's always a very, it's a journey and it's a process that's usually filled with setbacks and so forth. But so I'd say it's a, it's a process. I also think that the, the most important thing is to actually root goals in a note. What's what I call a North star. Really. That is the number one thing that people fail to do. If you do not articulate something greater than the individual or instill a sense of purpose, And contextualize a goal. It's really, really hard for that goal to ultimately succeed because it is just lives in the abstract and it doesn't have that context. So I think that that's actually really, really important. That's true in life. That's true in business. And it's something I try to do both in my personal life and here at work. But, but to your point, it does start with just setting the goal and then gradually increasing the degree of difficulty or the audaciousness, right? And then actually being okay to allow failure. And that takes time and that takes practice too. And it really takes discipline and support from the leadership team to, to let people know that it's okay to fail.…

AI assessment note: “when failure happens, don't punish the person, right? Make them know it's okay”

Q Before we dive into potentially what you wouldn't have brought across, I am intrigued to ask, you said about audacious goal setting there. How do you implement audacious goal setting without disincentivizing people when they don't achieve their goals and causing a certain sense of dissatisfaction when they don't achieve them? Is there a difficult balance?

A There sure is. So I think it started with just actually just setting a goal, period. So really, it's, it's like changing a behavior, a habit. Often people try to just like You do something right away, whether that's getting in shape or learning a new, a new language or what have you. It's always a very, it's a journey and it's a process that's usually filled with setbacks and so forth. But so I'd say it's a, it's a process. I also think that the, the most important thing is to actually root goals in a note. What's what I call a North star. Really. That is the number one thing that people fail to do. If you do not articulate something greater than the individual or instill a sense of purpose, And contextualize a goal. It's really, really hard for that goal to ultimately succeed because it is just lives in the abstract and it doesn't have that context. So I think that that's actually really, really important. That's true in life. That's true in business. And it's something I try to do both in my personal life and here at work. But, but to your point, it does start with just setting the goal and then gradually increasing the degree of difficulty or the audaciousness, right? And then actually being okay to allow failure. And that takes time and that takes practice too. And it really takes discipline and support from the leadership team to, to let people know that it's okay to fail.…

AI assessment note: “when failure happens, don't punish the person, right? Make them know it's okay.”

Q North star. I'm intrigued. Often I hear from founders, you know, I really want to have a North star on a great grander mission, but I've got fundraising ahead. I've got board meetings and I've got hires. How do you look to remain ruthlessly prioritized on what really matters in the midst of these differing elements that are so challenging? Whilst maintaining that grander vision, is there a balancing difficulty?

A Well, certainly, actually, the exercise of creating a North Star, actually, Jeff Wiener at LinkedIn, I think, is probably the best at doing this, right? Really being clear about a vision, and a mission, and strategy, and culture, and values. Like, really being intentional, and clear about those things, and really spelling them out, and investing as a team in that journey. Because once you do that, it becomes Much, much easier to do precisely what you said. You do get distractions. It's part of life, increasingly so. But if you have invested up front, it becomes clear, right? You absolutely have something that can guide you through good times, and especially bad times. So I think that that's part of it. But the larger challenge for any company, and I'd say humans as well, is to balance short-term and long-term. I I often talk to teams about that as being the most important and hardest thing that we do. Um, so of course that's hard to do in, in any setting.

AI assessment note: “if you have invested up front, it becomes clear, right? You absolutely have something”

Q North star. I'm intrigued. Often I hear from founders, you know, I really want to have a North star on a great grander mission, but I've got fundraising ahead. I've got board meetings and I've got hires. How do you look to remain ruthlessly prioritized on what really matters in the midst of these differing elements that are so challenging? Whilst maintaining that grander vision, is there a balancing difficulty?

A Well, certainly, actually, the exercise of creating a North Star, actually, Jeff Wiener at LinkedIn, I think, is probably the best at doing this, right? Really being clear about a vision, and a mission, and strategy, and culture, and values. Like, really being intentional, and clear about those things, and really spelling them out, and investing as a team in that journey. Because once you do that, it becomes Much, much easier to do precisely what you said. You do get distractions. It's part of life, increasingly so. But if you have invested up front, it becomes clear, right? You absolutely have something that can guide you through good times, and especially bad times. So I think that that's part of it. But the larger challenge for any company, and I'd say humans as well, is to balance short-term and long-term. I I often talk to teams about that as being the most important and hardest thing that we do. Um, so of course that's hard to do in, in any setting.

AI assessment note: “if you have invested up front, it becomes clear”

Q 24 hours, to make you feel very reassured, I read before that you said you've got to skate to where the puck is going. So I really want to know, how do you think about this when It's applied to expansion of product lines. When is the right time to expand products, roll out more features, update pricing? How do you think about that as a kind of meta perspective?

A Yeah. Well, first I should, as a good Canadian, I grew up playing hockey and worshiping Wayne Gretzky. So, so that quote is, isn't just a random one in the arsenal. It means something, but yeah, I think it is important as a leader to be out in front and And frankly, as a, as a leadership team is to really understand, not just, you know, today, but have that orientation and really be intentional and explicit about it. You know, what are the trends that are shaping the world? Like the way in which work happens is fundamentally being changed. And we spend a lot of time on that. So I think that that's very much a part of this is, is really carve out time and space so that you are thinking about those things. And that, that usually is outside of the office. It's reading books. A bunch of different sources, and then really just talking to people, you know, especially, is especially fun part, and part of the many reasons why the Valley is so amazing is that there are so many people thinking about these things almost too much sometimes, but certainly enough to help shape that future, so that's one part of it. It's articulating that vision for the company that's more than just what we're going to do this week, or this quarter, or even this year, so it's really anchoring that in really, uh, the other, uh, Concept I like is the job that we're hired to do, so Clay Christensen's, of course,…

AI assessment note: “what job is Evernote hired to do in the world? So really having those conversations”

Q 24 hours, to make you feel very reassured, I read before that you said you've got to skate to where the puck is going. So I really want to know, how do you think about this when It's applied to expansion of product lines. When is the right time to expand products, roll out more features, update pricing? How do you think about that as a kind of meta perspective?

A Yeah. Well, first I should, as a good Canadian, I grew up playing hockey and worshiping Wayne Gretzky. So, so that quote is, isn't just a random one in the arsenal. It means something, but yeah, I think it is important as a leader to be out in front and And frankly, as a, as a leadership team is to really understand, not just, you know, today, but have that orientation and really be intentional and explicit about it. You know, what are the trends that are shaping the world? Like the way in which work happens is fundamentally being changed. And we spend a lot of time on that. So I think that that's very much a part of this is, is really carve out time and space so that you are thinking about those things. And that, that usually is outside of the office. It's reading books. A bunch of different sources, and then really just talking to people, you know, especially, is especially fun part, and part of the many reasons why the Valley is so amazing is that there are so many people thinking about these things almost too much sometimes, but certainly enough to help shape that future, so that's one part of it. It's articulating that vision for the company that's more than just what we're going to do this week, or this quarter, or even this year, so it's really anchoring that in really, uh, the other, uh, Concept I like is the job that we're hired to do, so Clay Christensen's, of course,…

AI assessment note: “articulating that vision for the company that's more than just what we're going to do”