The Exchanges

Q And can I ask, when you were weighing it up in your mind whether to join Otomico, what were the pros and cons? Were there some distinguishable pros and cons that you thought about?

A Yeah, so, look, the pros are pretty obvious. Um, Nicholas is a super duper smart, massively innovative, has changed the world guy. There aren't many of those in the world. And in Europe, there's very few. I mean, if you're sitting in San Francisco, sure, maybe you think they're on every, you know, street corner, and they're not really, but, um, so that was hugely appealing. Um, and, and again, it was a Another pro was that it hadn't established itself yet, so we're raising institutional capital, and that's its own process, and it's, you know, it's difficult, um, so that was good, and then the con is I do like building things and creating companies, so you're not going to be doing that, and when you're an investor, you've got to, you've got to hold back a lot of the time, you know, a million ideas are going through your head, but ultimately you're not the person that's going to have to go and make those ideas happen, and a lot of investors are Really screw up companies because they sit there thinking they know everything when they don't.

AI assessment note: “the pros are pretty obvious... and then the con is I do like building things”

Q Absolutely. And you said about reasons for wanting to get into the venture industry. What would you say is kind of a good or the best reason to join the venture industry?

A I think that, I think there's two answers. One is if you're, if you're young, and you've worked two, three years in a bank, or consultancy, or whatever it might be, or Google, or whatever, and you want to go and just experience working with a whole bunch of different, you know, high energy startups, and you come in with a good attitude that you don't know everything, um, and you're there to learn, and you're going to have to do a lot of analysis, that's a good reason. Um, just to get broader experience, and then really the only other type of person that joins is someone that's Probably being quite successful in doing some form of entrepreneurial thing before building a company or whatever it might be. And then you're going in as a very different role where you're, you know, really trying to use your experience to genuinely help, um, you know, the portfolio companies that you have. So I think that are kind of two main reasons. I think some people just think it's frankly, they're in a bank and banking's pretty tough these days and they sort of just want to get out, which is not a very good reason.

AI assessment note: “I think there's two answers. One is if you're, if you're young”

Q And can I ask, when you were weighing it up in your mind whether to join Otomico, what were the pros and cons? Were there some distinguishable pros and cons that you thought about?

A Yeah, so, look, the pros are pretty obvious. Um, Nicholas is a super duper smart, massively innovative, has changed the world guy. There aren't many of those in the world. And in Europe, there's very few. I mean, if you're sitting in San Francisco, sure, maybe you think they're on every, you know, street corner, and they're not really, but, um, so that was hugely appealing. Um, and, and again, it was a Another pro was that it hadn't established itself yet, so we're raising institutional capital, and that's its own process, and it's, you know, it's difficult, um, so that was good, and then the con is I do like building things and creating companies, so you're not going to be doing that, and when you're an investor, you've got to, you've got to hold back a lot of the time, you know, a million ideas are going through your head, but ultimately you're not the person that's going to have to go and make those ideas happen, and a lot of investors are Really screw up companies because they sit there thinking they know everything when they don't.

AI assessment note: “the pros are pretty obvious... and then the con is I do like building things”

Q Absolutely. And you said about reasons for wanting to get into the venture industry. What would you say is kind of a good or the best reason to join the venture industry?

A I think that, I think there's two answers. One is if you're, if you're young, and you've worked two, three years in a bank, or consultancy, or whatever it might be, or Google, or whatever, and you want to go and just experience working with a whole bunch of different, you know, high energy startups, and you come in with a good attitude that you don't know everything, um, and you're there to learn, and you're going to have to do a lot of analysis, that's a good reason. Um, just to get broader experience, and then really the only other type of person that joins is someone that's Probably being quite successful in doing some form of entrepreneurial thing before building a company or whatever it might be. And then you're going in as a very different role where you're, you know, really trying to use your experience to genuinely help, um, you know, the portfolio companies that you have. So I think that are kind of two main reasons. I think some people just think it's frankly, they're in a bank and banking's pretty tough these days and they sort of just want to get out, which is not a very good reason.

AI assessment note: “I think there's two answers. One is if you're, if you're young”

Q So having been on both sides of the table in terms of raising and investing, what tips would you give entrepreneurs potentially thinking of entering into a round?

A Yeah. So, okay. The first thing, of course, is it depends on what stage we're talking about. So if you're, if you're looking to raise your very first kind of external money, you may have cobbled together, 50 K friends and family, you know, that type of thing. You're wanting to raise maybe half a million seed rounds. Then really it's just about, you just need to find one person that will write any size of check. It doesn't have to be 200,400 thousand. Just get someone that's willing to put in 50 K. Because as soon as you have one person, you will get the other angels. Because one person just has to move and commit. What you see sometimes is just paralysis. Everyone's waiting for someone else to move. So that's probably, you know, uh, good advice. And if someone just keeps telling you it's interesting, that is, of course, the word of death. Interesting means they're not interested.

AI assessment note: “you just need to find one person that will write any size of check”

Q And how do you know if you do have the right people? Are there any tells?

A Yeah, there's a really simple tell, um, and it's the simplest thing in the universe. Everyone's going to tell you, every investor's going to tell you how helpful they're going to be. They're going to, they're going to introduce you to everyone in the world that you want to meet and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And it's really simple. You say, okay, that's fantastic. Can you do that now? Invested. Please show your worth. And so this is how I always went about when I was an investor talking to entrepreneurs. I would make slides for them. I would say, hey, here's our plan. By the way, let's get going tomorrow. And they looked at me like I was crazy. I'm like, well, we don't need to invest out. Um, and to this day, that's how Tomiko does things. That's how a lot of the great VCs do do things. Because, and if someone's not willing to, well, how are you about, you're about to get married to them, as you say. So, I just think it's the simplest test in the world, and it's very quick, you know, the bullshit, the bullshit-o-meter, whatever you want to call it, um, can, you can very quickly see people that are just kind of not being particularly truthful.

AI assessment note: “You say, okay, that's fantastic. Can you do that now?”

Q And how do you know if you do have the right people? Are there any tells?

A Yeah, there's a really simple tell, um, and it's the simplest thing in the universe. Everyone's going to tell you, every investor's going to tell you how helpful they're going to be. They're going to, they're going to introduce you to everyone in the world that you want to meet and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And it's really simple. You say, okay, that's fantastic. Can you do that now? Invested. Please show your worth. And so this is how I always went about when I was an investor talking to entrepreneurs. I would make slides for them. I would say, hey, here's our plan. By the way, let's get going tomorrow. And they looked at me like I was crazy. I'm like, well, we don't need to invest out. Um, and to this day, that's how Tomiko does things. That's how a lot of the great VCs do do things. Because, and if someone's not willing to, well, how are you about, you're about to get married to them, as you say. So, I just think it's the simplest test in the world, and it's very quick, you know, the bullshit, the bullshit-o-meter, whatever you want to call it, um, can, you can very quickly see people that are just kind of not being particularly truthful.

AI assessment note: “You say, okay, that's fantastic. Can you do that now?”

Q But would you have gone into another venture fund?

A No, I wasn't looking to. I mean, honestly, I, and look, when I was there, I interviewed hundreds of people that, from banks and consultants and all of this type of stuff that were desperate to get into venture, and frankly, very few of them actually had a good reason for why. Um, they just kind of thought it was- Going to be, maybe they thought it would be easier or whatever, but it's hard, you know, all, all things worth, I mean, as we saw, we have a quote of the day you sent me earlier, um, from the Apple think different commercial, but one, you know, my favorite quote was, um, is JFK in the sixties when he talks about, we're going to go to the moon this decade, not because it's easy, but because it is hard. And I think people think it's easy being an investor. No, no, it's, it's, it's tough. Like most VCs don't do very well. Uh, most of the returns were in the top few percent. Those that you read about and have done well, yes, maybe they make it seem easy, but you know what? You're building, when, when joining a company that early, you'll build, it's like being an entrepreneur again too, right? You're, you're building it from nothing to, to what it is today.

AI assessment note: “No, I wasn't looking to.”

Q Now, you've enjoyed an incredible career, but can you start from the beginning and tell us where it all began and how you made your move into venture?

A Sure. So I've had kind of one of those, I'd say a bit of a jack of all trade, master of none careers. So I started off, um, when I was doing my PhD at Oxford, I started my first business. Um, and that was a, a, a games company. It was one of the very early e-sports companies. Um, not like now when we've got Twitch that just got bought for a billion dollars and people winning five million pound prizes or five million dollar prizes in gaming, we were Back in two, two, three, um, we were kind of, we knew this would be big, but we were just a bit early, so about 10 years too early.

AI assessment note: “I started off, um, when I was doing my PhD at Oxford”

Q But would you have gone into another venture fund?

A No, I wasn't looking to. I mean, honestly, I, and look, when I was there, I interviewed hundreds of people that, from banks and consultants and all of this type of stuff that were desperate to get into venture, and frankly, very few of them actually had a good reason for why. Um, they just kind of thought it was- Going to be, maybe they thought it would be easier or whatever, but it's hard, you know, all, all things worth, I mean, as we saw, we have a quote of the day you sent me earlier, um, from the Apple think different commercial, but one, you know, my favorite quote was, um, is JFK in the sixties when he talks about, we're going to go to the moon this decade, not because it's easy, but because it is hard. And I think people think it's easy being an investor. No, no, it's, it's, it's tough. Like most VCs don't do very well. Uh, most of the returns were in the top few percent. Those that you read about and have done well, yes, maybe they make it seem easy, but you know what? You're building, when, when joining a company that early, you'll build, it's like being an entrepreneur again too, right? You're, you're building it from nothing to, to what it is today.

AI assessment note: “No, I wasn't looking to.”

Q It's the end in many minds, isn't it? Yeah, and really it's just the beginning.

A You can read certain well-known tech blogs, which everyone knows which I'm talking about, and it sort of does sound like the achievement. Um, But, it's not. So we don't, we've raised, we have The investors of the public and investors that are not, who are by the way, as good as you can get in the world. We just don't, we don't think it's news trumpeting when we raise money. Um, we're just building a great business. Um, so yes, I have been on both sides of the table. Um, obviously many, many, many hundreds or thousands of people were pitching to me and I probably ended up doing, I don't know, 20, 25 investments. Um, and obviously I've been on the other side too. Um, and I think what's really interesting is when you've been on both sides, you can You sort of, I, I know I, I'll be talking in a way that I know the kind of VC, how they're thinking. I think it makes it quite easy in some ways, and, and you can, and also my story is simple. I did a lot of work, uh, looking at CTOFO, and as I said, I fell in love with it, and, and I did probably the strongest thing you can do, which is I, um, I, I went to, I joined it, joined the company, and I invested as well.

AI assessment note: “it sort of does sound like the achievement. Um, But, it's not.”

Q It's the end in many minds, isn't it? Yeah, and really it's just the beginning.

A You can read certain well-known tech blogs, which everyone knows which I'm talking about, and it sort of does sound like the achievement. Um, But, it's not. So we don't, we've raised, we have The investors of the public and investors that are not, who are by the way, as good as you can get in the world. We just don't, we don't think it's news trumpeting when we raise money. Um, we're just building a great business. Um, so yes, I have been on both sides of the table. Um, obviously many, many, many hundreds or thousands of people were pitching to me and I probably ended up doing, I don't know, 20, 25 investments. Um, and obviously I've been on the other side too. Um, and I think what's really interesting is when you've been on both sides, you can You sort of, I, I know I, I'll be talking in a way that I know the kind of VC, how they're thinking. I think it makes it quite easy in some ways, and, and you can, and also my story is simple. I did a lot of work, uh, looking at CTOFO, and as I said, I fell in love with it, and, and I did probably the strongest thing you can do, which is I, um, I, I went to, I joined it, joined the company, and I invested as well.

AI assessment note: “it sort of does sound like the achievement. Um, But, it's not.”